I'm cool with us getting a new player if you want but it's not a big deal.
A bit on the fence about another player. I don't mind as long as they can keep up. The group has their bases covered in many ways. Richard and Colwyn can do the sneaky trap thing. Niadroub is reaching the point of arcane destruction. Elena can definitely heal and more importantly often reduces the amount of healing needed with well placed entangles and arrows. Xantria is our best melee character, Colwyn and Richard aiding (at level 5 Richard will start hitting much harder).
Anything can work which is a plus. I do lean towards it a bit.
I've seen weirder...
Look at da puppy!
Niadroub is reaching the point of arcane destruction.
Thanks, and NK is excited to smoke some a&@+!$$s, but just so you know, his focus is going to be on debuffing and battlefield control. Setting things up so that the others can more effectively take 'em down. Of course, an arcanist is more flexible in some ways than either a wizard or sorceror, so the plan is to always have a damage spell ready for when it's really needed.
DBH, what's your preference for a new player?
This party has everything pretty much well covered as has been said. I'd say if we did add another it would be a Ranger or Druid. Probably a Ranger would be best.
You've got skills, arcane, divine and melee handled, so someone to be the wilderness girl would bring something else to the group.
This party has everything pretty much well covered as has been said. I'd say if we did add another it would be a Ranger or Druid. Probably a Ranger would be best.
You've got skills, arcane, divine and melee handled, so someone to be the wilderness girl would bring something else to the group.
Elena has a bit of the wilderness thing going on, but she doesn't have enough skill ranks to do it really well.
About the only thing wrong with Clerics is how little skill points they get. With all the various things they're supposed to cover for a party they really need a few more.
Yeah, I'm playing a cleric in another campaign, and all he can do well is Knowledge (Religion) and Sense Motive, with any skill points left over going into Perception.
It's funny that wizards are better at Knowledge (religion) than clerics are. I agree about the skills.
Clerics also don't get any bonus feats. Even less feats than a sorcerer gets. Elena is okay at archery, but she won't ever be outstanding at it, because she doesn't have the feats. She won't have precise shot until 9th level.
I am hoping I can compensate with buffs though.
It's funny that wizards are better at Knowledge (religion) than clerics are. I agree about the skills.
The cynic in me wants to say because wizards are taught to think about what they read, while religious students are often taught what to think. :)
Anyway, I think that with the addition of the warpriest class, clerics should have more options to back away from that role, if they want, to be a bit more like a cloistered cleric.
I am hoping I can compensate with buffs though.
Spells are where a cleric shines, honestly.
Mykhael moves up to support Richard, using the reach of his spear to attack Orange.
[dice=Spear] 1d20 + 7;
[dice=Crit confirm] 1d20 + 7;
[dice=Damage] 3d8 + 18;
Two 20s on a crit, and he's not even here?! There's no justice in this world, I tell you.
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Colwyn watches Niadroub uncannily slide from one point to another, so he keeps a nocked arrow readied as he follows to support the rustic spellcaster.
I meant to comment on this earlier.
If there's anything that shows that Colwyn has the chops to be king it's his use of the word "rustic" to refer to Niadroub Kliip.
I love that if white just turns and makes a break for it, he'll run right into Elena's entangle spell.
Congrats to all of us on finishing the first book of the AP! We made decent time, especially considering the (I'm assuming) time zone difference between DBH and most of the players. I'm having a great time.
As you know, I GMed Kingmaker not too long ago, but I only ever got one Kingdom Turn and one combat encounter into Book 2 before life hammered down on everyone's attention and free time to the point where I retired the campaign, so I'm excited to proceed forward.
I promised a Kingdom Tracking tool, and I still plan to do that. Sorry for the delay. I need to take the existing Google Sheets template that I have and remove the optional rules that my campaign was using and I'll submit it to you guys for consideration.
DBH, how is your other KM campaign going?
I promised a Kingdom Tracking tool, and I still plan to do that. Sorry for the delay. I need to take the existing Google Sheets template that I have and remove the optional rules that my campaign was using and I'll submit it to you guys for consideration.
Speaking of which, sharing the sheet would be a lot more convenient if we could decide on a name for our first city.
The other KM campaign has started their kingdom, they are onto the 4th month of building, having just annexed the Sootscales hex.
They didn't have Mercenary problems like you, so got through a bit quicker. Their changes are starting to trickle in now. :)
They have learned that splitting the party between explorers and stay at home builders is a bad idea. :)
They went with co-Rulers, a couple who got married and now one is pregnant.
They lost their Cavalier at 2nd level, and the replacement, a Swordlord had just dropped out, so their muscle is a bit lacking. Waiting to see what the prospective replacement has decided to build as a character?
Ok people, time to start all your housekeeping, you've all got money to spend.
You have been sent 50BP for getting things underway.
You need to chose where you're are going to build your capital, and who is going to fill the various Kingdom roles?
Three of the locations in the northern Greenbelt you had a chance to discover and explore in Stolen Land could make excellent sites to found cities, due to the presence of buildings or ruins. These three sites are as follows.
Oleg’s Trading Post: The trading post is a versatile structure built to serve as a place of business. If you decide to found a city in this hex, they can incorporate Oleg’s as a free Shop, Stable, or Watchtower in their city grid (once chosen, the function of Oleg’s within the new city cannot be changed).
Temple of the Elk: Although the Temple of the Elk is partially ruined, building a city here you a head start on a Temple, halving the initial cost of building such a structure.
The Stag Lord’s Fort: Located at the heart of the Greenbelt on a defensible hill near a plentiful source of water, fishing, and trade, the Stag Lord’s Fort may be the single best place to place a capital city. The fort itself gives you a head start on building a castle, halving the initial cost of such a structure. In addition, if you make this site your capital city, your nation gains a +1 bonus on Economy, Loyalty, and Stability due to its centralized location and ease of defense.
Leaders.
Akiros Ismort Str 14. Dex 12. Con 16. Int 10. Wis 8. Chr 15.
Desired role - General. Best role - Warden.
Description - Aimless. Attitude - Indifferent.
Jhod Kavken Str 10. Dex 8. Con 13. Int 12. Wis 18. Chr 14.
Desired role - None. Best role - High Priest.
Description - Self doubting. Attitude - Friendly.
Kesten Garess Str 17. Dex 8. Con 13. Int 10. Wis 12. Chr 14.
Desired role - Warden. Best role - General.
Description - Morose. Attitude - Friendly.
Oleg Leveton Str 11. Dex 9. Con 10. Int 12. Wis 15. Chr 8.
Desired role - Treasurer. Best role - Treasurer.
Description - Surly. Attitude - Friendly.
Svetlana Leveton Str 8. Dex 9. Con 10. Int 11. Wis 12. Chr 15.
Desired role - None. Best role - Councilor.
Description - Kind. Attitude - Friendly.
Have we determined that Mykhael is gone? If so, should we consider him as an NPC for a leadership role?
I'm on record for voting for the Stag Lord's fort for our founding city location.
Here's my views on leaders, based on past discussions and from DBH's info from above:
Variable Roles:
Ruler (CHA) - Colwyn +2
Spymaster (DEX or INT) - Richard +4
Economy Roles (+9):
Magister (INT or CHA) - Niadroub Kliip +4
Marshal (DEX or WIS) - Xantria +3
Treasurer (INT or WIS) - Oleg +2
Loyalty Roles (+11):
Councilor (CHA or WIS) - Jhod +4
Royal Enforcer (DEX or STR) - Kesten +3
Warden (CON or STR) - Akiros +4
Stability Roles (+9):
General (STR or CHA) - Mykhael +4
Grand Diplomat (INT or CHA) - Svetlana +2
High Priest (WIS or CHA) - Elena +3
If Mykhael is out of the picture, then I think Kesten would make a good general, and maybe we could get someone else in for Enforcer. Maybe Chief Sootscale has a good DEX! I'm also indifferent to including both Levetons. In game, it makes sense that they would want to focus on their burgeoning business, and I like the idea that, in the future, our kingdom expands to encompass them, and then they can be viceroys of their town for us. Metagaming, they provide the weakest bonus, so we may end up switching them out for someone better suited, which has a small penalty, I think. A penalty later might be worth it to have their +2 bonuses for now, though.
I'm adding new sheets to the Party Treasury document to keep track of Leadership Positions, Kingdom Stats, and the like.
Also, since the Ruler picks one Kingdom Attribute to improve at the start, which one do you think we should pick?
EDIT: I've set the kingdom's alignment as Neutral Good, as we discussed, which further boosts Loyalty and Stability by 2 each.
I'm adding new sheets to the Party Treasury document to keep track of Leadership Positions, Kingdom Stats, and the like.
Sorry to be a jerk, but I'm going to have the kingdom spreadsheet that I've kept hinting at ready in less than half an hour.
I'm adding new sheets to the Party Treasury document to keep track of Leadership Positions, Kingdom Stats, and the like.Sorry to be a jerk, but I'm going to have the kingdom spreadsheet that I've kept hinting at ready in less than half an hour.
Er, full hour. :)
Ok, here is the kingdom building sheet that I've set up.
We do not have to use this! It will not hurt my feelings if nobody likes it or nobody trusts its accuracy or whatever.
The Kingdom Building rules have lots of variables, and it can be difficult to collaborate or show transparency on certain kingdom stats, so many groups like to use some form of automated spreadsheet to keep track of everything. I built (honestly, I copied and heavily amended) this spreadsheet for my group that I used to run Kingmaker for. There are other tracking sheets out there that are more comprehensive than this one, but they are too large to put on a collaborative site like Google Drive. But taking away the very specific/rare automated actions and making those actions manual, the file size shrinks down enough that you can put it on a site like Google Drive so that people can view a kingdom without having to download and then re-upload the file every time a change is made.
Take a look at the spreadsheet and see if you like it for this group. I've plugged in a few stats, but only for demonstration purposes. I'm not trying to push for anything we haven't decided as a group by plugging certain things into the spreadsheet. Play around with it to see how the Kingdom stats are affected. Any cells that are orange are cells that require manual entry. All other cells are formulas that should not be changed. I've tried to lock down those cells so that they can't be accidentally edited, but if that didn't take, please don't mess with cell formulas. :)
I had to remove the optional rules that my group was using that this group will be using. According to this post, we'll be using Leadership Role Skills and the Deities and Holy Sites rules. I've kept the Forms of Government optional rule in place because as a group we've been talking about running our kingdom as a republic, and DBH hasn't squashed that. However, if we don't want this optional rule to affect our kingdom, we can just leave the "Form of Government" drop down to Autocracy and the rule will have no effect.
I've also kept the Expanding Settlement Modifiers rule in place for two reasons: One, I don't think that you can have the Form of Government optional rule without this rule, and two, it will be kind of a pain in the A to remove it with certainty. It's easily ignored, I believe.
Also, since the Ruler picks one Kingdom Attribute to improve at the start, which one do you think we should pick?
I'm thinking that if there's an attribute that falls short of the others once everything else is calculated, the ruler should try to compensate for that attribute. However, if it's a tie or even close, Economy is the most important attribute for many kingdoms.
I'm adding new sheets to the Party Treasury document to keep track of Leadership Positions, Kingdom Stats, and the like.Sorry to be a jerk, but I'm going to have the kingdom spreadsheet that I've kept hinting at ready in less than half an hour.
Whoops. Sorry, I forgot about that. I will leave kingdom tracking to you, Niadroub.
I was leaning towards Economy, also.
I'm going to say that Mykhael is gone, getting a replacement slipped my mind but now we have a gap we can get a new player.
The party is pretty well rounded as is, what do you wish for in a replacement?
Also I have no problems with you setting the new country up as a republic, Ultimate Campaign means someone has to be in the rulers seat, but setting the other leaders as your council, one with the ability to elect a new ruler is is a pretty good move.
It means you attract those sick of noble politics in Brevoy, and those looking to start a new life or business without having to battle uphill against the established power blocs.
Now, what names are you choosing for your new Kingdom, and for your new Capital?
The party is pretty well rounded as is, what do you wish for in a replacement?
I'm fine with anything. See who applies and pick a good wildcard. Maybe require that a new player come up with a plausible reason why their character would be a stranger to everyone who steps right into a leadership position of a fledgling nation?
Now, what names are you choosing for your new Kingdom, and for your new Capital?
Just a reminder to us all that I've collected all of our suggestions for names so far in this post.
I like "Stagfall" for the Capital City name, so I'll vote for that. Keep in mind that we'll probably have to have this same discussion for every new settlement we create, so there's a good chance that most of the names on that list will get used eventually.
As for nation names, none of what we've talked about really stand out to me. I kind of like deriving a name from Tuskwater, Narlmarches, or Kameland, but beyond that my creativity fails me. I kind of wish we had a dead PC by now, because we could name the nation in their memory. But we're all too amazing. *sigh*
So...
Alignment: Neutral Good?
Government Type: Republic?
Capitol City: Stag Lord's Base?
Holiday Edicts ???
Promotion Edicts ???
Taxation Edicts ???
Oleg’s Trading Post: The trading post is a versatile structure built to serve as a place of business. If you decide to found a city in this hex, they can incorporate Oleg’s as a free Shop, Stable, or Watchtower in their city grid (once chosen, the function of Oleg’s within the new city cannot be changed).
Temple of the Elk: Although the Temple of the Elk is partially ruined, building a city here you a head start on a Temple, halving the initial cost of building such a structure.
The Stag Lord’s Fort: Located at the heart of the Greenbelt on a defensible hill near a plentiful source of water, fishing, and trade, the Stag Lord’s Fort may be the single best place to place a capital city. The fort itself gives you a head start on building a castle, halving the initial cost of such a structure. In addition, if you make this site your capital city, your nation gains a +1 bonus on Economy, Loyalty, and Stability due to its centralized location and ease of defense.
Okay, thinking outside the box here. Can we build our capital in a different spot other than these three?
My choice as a player, all other things being equal, would actually be to place the capital at the spot where the Shrike and Thorn rivers join.
Militarily the key in this region will be controlling the river crossings, and the main river crossing in this area is at that point. There is a ford across the Thorn at this point which would probably count as a free bridge, and we would be close enough to a "central location" that if GM DBH agrees, we would still get the "centralized location" bonus. We also will be able to build waterfront lots on multiple sides of multiple districts, and we will have a ring of six arable hexes around the city which is very good to have.
I expect if a city is not built at the site of the Stag Lord's fort, if GM DBH agrees we could get a discount on a watchtower or fort in that hex, and that is also very useful.
Eventually we will want to found towns at the sites of the elk temple and Oleg's trading post, but we don't need to do that yet.
Question: Will Oleg and Svetlana be available as NPC leaders if the Trading Post is not part of the nation yet?
Question: Will Oleg and Svetlana be available as NPC leaders if the Trading Post is not part of the nation yet?
Yes.
Stagfall is a good capital name.
As for other potential kingdom names, here are my ideas:
Republic of the Kamelands
Republic of the Greenbelt
Estigland (drawn from an alternate name for Erastil)
Greenwall
Ok, I'll put up the recruitment post and list who is in the party now.
We'll see what people offer, please do look over the applicants and give me your opinion.
My choice as a player, all other things being equal, would actually be to place the capital at the spot where the Shrike and Thorn rivers join.
I think we could still gain military control over those rivers by building a Watchtower or a Fort terrain improvement. That way, we get the benefits you're listing, and we don't lose the "halve cost of a castle" lying on the table.
How are people feeling about the Kingdom Building spreadsheet I'm offering? Again, I'm fine with not using it, but I don't want to assume that because nobody is talking about it.
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My choice as a player, all other things being equal, would actually be to place the capital at the spot where the Shrike and Thorn rivers join.I think we could still gain military control over those rivers by building a Watchtower or a Fort terrain improvement. That way, we get the benefits you're listing, and we don't lose the "halve cost of a castle" lying on the table.
I agree. I was going to suggest building a watchtower in lieu of a settlement there, too.
Also, I was looking up details on the rivers in the area, and the Shrike River is interrupted by two waterfalls that make it a poor choice for travel.As for your spreadsheet, Niadroub, I am very impressed by it. We should definitely use it.
I agree. I was going to suggest building a watchtower in lieu of a settlement there, too.
I think we could still gain military control over those rivers by building a Watchtower or a Fort terrain improvement. That way, we get the benefits you're listing, and we don't lose the "halve cost of a castle" lying on the table.
If we can talk the GM into "half the cost of a fort/watchtower" in the hex where the Stag Lord's fort was then we're not really losing that much.
But the way the Stockyard works it is really good to be able to surround your town with farms. In the long run that will be worth 1 to 3 more BP per turn (hard to tell from the map).
Also, I was looking up details on the rivers in the area, and the Shrike River is interrupted by two waterfalls that make it a poor choice for travel.
Until we build canals to allow boats to go past them. Which obviously we want to do. That would open up a river route from Restov to Mivon, which would be a big deal.
If we can talk the GM into "half the cost of a fort/watchtower" in the hex where the Stag Lord's fort was then we're not really losing that much.
Okay, so a castle in a city is 54 BP, and half of that is 27. A watchtower is 12 BP, but it's upgrade, the Fort, is 24 BP, which is a more similar value.
DBH, how about it? If we build our capital city in hex 30, could we get a free fort once we've claimed hex 36, and get the "+1 bonus on Economy, Loyalty, and Stability due to its centralized location?" Along a north/south axis, Hex 30 is actually more central than 36.
But the way the Stockyard works it is really good to be able to surround your town with farms. In the long run that will be worth 1 to 3 more BP per turn (hard to tell from the map).
Can you explain this? Is the reason you're saying this because hex 35 is likely to be forest, where we can't build a farm?
Ok, I'll put up the recruitment post and list who is in the party now.
We'll see what people offer, please do look over the applicants and give me your opinion.
So far, I like the melee options the best. (The fighter, monk, the barbarian, and the cavalier.) Of those, the fighter and monk seem to be putting more effort into fitting a background into the campaign, but the others haven't submitted actual character sheets, yet, so it's hard to tell. I haven't looked too closely at any actual builds, and I probably won't.
A skald or bard would certainly help the melee we already have, but also no background. Except the bard might be a kobold from the Sootscale tribe.
Also, I've played with rorek55 before, on two campaigns that died out, and I would happily play with him again.
Just to be clear, the crossing marked in Hex30 is on the Thorn river.
River Crossing (Standard)
The Thorn River grows unusually shallow here just before it empties into the Shrike. The resulting ford is never deeper than 3 feet.
I will still allow the cost of a watchtower or fort to be half at the Stag lords fort.
Interesting to see someone choosing something different, nearly everybody chooses to set up at the Stag lords fort as the site of their capital. What does everybody else think?
And are you keeping an eye on the applicants? New Character thread
Can you explain this? Is the reason you're saying this because hex 35 is likely to be forest, where we can't build a farm?
That's exactly it. Also I am not sure if we would be allowed to build farms in the hexes that are half water (in the hexes where the Tuskwater is). If not then that would be 3 hexes nearby that don't have farms.
Eventually we will build cities in non-farmable areas (like a temple city in the forest) but the first one we build should be able to support others.
I also want to do something differently from everyone else. :)
Just to be clear, the crossing marked in Hex30 is on the Thorn river.
Yes, we'll still need to build a bridge over the Shrike.
I quite like the location and history for the Stag Lord's fort for a city... but it would be interesting to have a capital somewhere else. They almost made it too appealing to a new party.
The applicants I am keenest on that I think can keep up.
Brigid Auf Whitehelm I like mechanically and it looks like the player can keep up posting wise. The background is brief but curiously going on about the shame of hiring a woman for combat... which isn't really a thing in most of Avistan. Mostly ranged but looks like she can hold her own in melee. I am not opposed to a dedicated archer standing back with Niadroub and Elena who can still dish out some reliable damage if someone closes with them.
Duska the half elf ranger fills a similar niche than Brigid but does less damage and seems less robust but has more skills. Also the bandit angle could be interesting. Maybe Colwyn convinces a former associate to go straight?
Reknar the Half Orc Bard/Fighter seems interesting mechanically. I presume he'll be more fighter than bard. He'd bring a bit to the party. I wont comment on his background as my eyes just glazed over when I saw it's length and decided I'm not the GM I can get away with not reading this.
I quite like the location and history for the Stag Lord's fort for a city... but it would be interesting to have a capital somewhere else. They almost made it too appealing to a new party.
The applicants I am keenest on that I think can keep up.
Brigid Auf Whitehelm I like mechanically and it looks like the player can keep up posting wise. The background is brief but curiously going on about the shame of hiring a woman for combat... which isn't really a thing in most of Avistan. Mostly ranged but looks like she can hold her own in melee. I am not opposed to a dedicated archer standing back with Niadroub and Elena who can still dish out some reliable damage if someone closes with them.
Duska the half elf ranger fills a similar niche than Brigid but does less damage and seems less robust but has more skills. Also the bandit angle could be interesting. Maybe Colwyn convinces a former associate to go straight?
Reknar the Half Orc Bard/Fighter seems interesting mechanically. I presume he'll be more fighter than bard. He'd bring a bit to the party. I wont comment on his background as my eyes just glazed over when I saw it's length and decided I'm not the GM I can get away with not reading this.
[Sarcasm]Why thank you.[/sarcasm]
Thats why you get paid the big... wait...
First, I'd like to thank Elena for offering some great party insight to the applicants. Kudos!
Also, I had a similar thought as Richard. When I saw the "former bandit" angle among some of the applicants, using Colwyn as a hook to introduce the new character immediately occurred to me, as well.
Of the applicants, my favorites so far are the two fighters, Brigid auf Whitehelm and Arden Kain Brandt.
Reknar Heldergast and Rortum Earthshaker are two others that I also like.
Elena, good point about the Skald not being a great fit for the party. I can't believe I missed that, especially since I've recently encountered a similar issue with that (my ninja rarely benefits from our party's skald).
Also, seconding that if a character sheet background can't all fit on my laptop monitor, I'm unlikely to do more than skim it. Show don't tell...
First, I'd like to thank Elena for offering some great party insight to the applicants. Kudos!
Yes, seconded. Well done.
Arden Kain Brandt
I know I'm repeating myself, but I just want to point out that this is the guy I've played with in a couple of other campaigns. No complaints.
I will still allow the cost of a watchtower or fort to be half at the Stag lords fort.
Sorry, I'm going to pin you down a bit, because I'm unclear about a couple things. If we were to build a city where the Stag Lord's fort is, we would get a +1 to the three kingdom stats due to its "central location" and we'd get a castle at half cost (54/2=27 BP). So, I have two questions:
1) If we build our capital at Hex 30, would we still get the central location bonus?
2) A Fort costs 24 BP, which is very similar to the offered 27 BP. But above you said that if we just claimed 36 as a regular hex, you were only offering a fort at half cost, which would be worth 12 BP. Keeping in mind that the Stag Lord has been using the locale as a fully functional fort, and we didn't destroy it when we took it over... are you only offering the fort at half cost (12 BP) if we claim it as a regular hex, or is it available as a free fort (worth 24 BP), which is similar to the originally offered half castle (27 BP)?
Interesting to see someone choosing something different, nearly everybody chooses to set up at the Stag lords fort as the site of their capital.
Agreed that it's an interesting choice, and I like the "being different" aspect of this location. I don't think we'd be gaining or losing a whole lot in either location. Plus, we could incorporate one of the river names or features into the capital city's name (and save Fort Stagfall for hex 36)!
Xantria, any thoughts on any of this?