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Kingmaker: The Path to Glory (Inactive)

Game Master pinvendor

Chapter 1: Stolen Lands? Well, steal them back!


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Only if you're being too sensitive, it's just my opinion. Combat takes too long to have epic fumbles. We'll get nowhere if we're always making new characters because we rolled a 1. Just keep it how it is in the book. That's my vote.


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

I'm still here. Distracted (see: Skyrim) but here :-)

Just getting home from work and off to sleep. Will check the thread when I wake up and try to post an update before work.


Itinerant GameMaster

My dear Stavo. You do realize that most of the length just comes from the fact that you and Corinne are on a completely different time cycle from ODV and myself? If we were all able to post within a couple hours of each other on a consistent basis this wouldn't take nearly as long. But that's kind of the beauty of PbP. There's no reason it has to be lightning fast. :D

In regards to fumbles...I find myself disliking the absence of them not so that if a PC rolls a '1', I can instantly kill them, but because the game mechanics have absolutely no mechanism to indicate moments where something unexpected occurs such as a bird shooting out of the tall grass interrupting Thelan's bow shot so he shoots Welek by accident, or Ragnar trying to find secure footing to swing at a bandit but instead steps on loose dirt and slides down the hill, or whatever. As it stands, a '1' is just a miss. Maybe the dirt was loose but not enough to cause Ragnar to be inconvenienced in anyway, so no new challenges will ever come from actions, you'll just wait for your next round to "try again". And again, and again, ad nauseum.

On the other hand, I suppose that this system is just more designed to allow heroes to just be awesome and never have "incidental" things screw them over. I don't really plan to change anything. I was just sure that I had actually read something about fumbles in this system, but...apparently it was just my imagination.


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

Man, I suck at this map thing! Oh well, I'll get the hang of it. I knew I'd be a bit of a joker for awhile as I got used to this new system.

Please move me as close as possible to Arielle. Going to update now.


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Itinerant GameMaster

Lol, I had planned to make this the first time Corinne had seen what Arielle can do. Since you're encouraging her to do so, I guess we'll go with Corinne not being surprised by the eidolon when it arrives, heh.

Corinne the Chroniker wrote:
Corinne had seen her young sister do amazing things and she never understood it.

+1 RC for an utterly ironic statement of epic proportions, Time Thief. LMAO! XD


You know, I think Stav's right in that regard. This system is built for us to be HERRROOOOEESSS. So maybe we should ignore fumblings? Or at the very least a fumble means roll for further fumble chance and have it be something simple. I don't care but as long as its bit character killing I'm ol with it.


Itinerant GameMaster

Lol, I swear you guys like to "side" with each other without actually reading my responses. Oh well. Such is the lot of a GM. :P


Quit crying Pinvendor. We're the PC's we're supposed to side against the DM of Death. And also, I DID read your posts. I was just saying what I thought regardless of whether or not someone else already said it. SHEESH.


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

Btw, nice bit of writing lately Pin. Fun stuff :)


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Is it my turn? Either way can we get an updated map? I know it's the weekend so I guess I'll just wait a couple days....


There already is an updated map Stav...

The most up to date map!--> http://www.mediafire.com/?16ykx0p5zuofiyb

All you'll need to check is if Thelan moved any which I don't believe so?

I guess knowing where this 'door' is would be dope too but not necessary


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I'm really not sure of what's going on at the moment. There's a door, I think jesus is inside waiting for 3 days to pass. Thelan is hopefully going to toss the girl off a cliff. Then you have the two guys from star wars OR any of several final fantasy games guarding the door. This is what I've gathered so far...I'm thinking I should probably try and stop Thelan by rping....but a ninja kick would be super sweet right now. I can just hold my action and let Ragnar cut some people he's really the best at it.....So many decisions XP

Edit: also was that guy talking about the Half-orcs cock? haha


I do believe he was.

And you summed all that up really damn well hahahahahah


Itinerant GameMaster

Of course Thelan moved you dweebs. He and Arielle are standing close to the gorge at the edge of the map.

And if you ninja kick him while he's holding onto the girl or let him throw Arielle off as you suggested, party cohesion will probably die since Corinne will be a tad upset. Not to mention your lawful alignment would go right out the window.


Yeah that'd definitely be the Renegade option haha.


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Thelan is holding the girl out at arms length, her struggling making his grip loosen.

"Get back! I'll do it!"

The hulking mass of muscle, Xulgag the half-orc walks determinedly forward. His shoulders shifting forward and back as he swings his thickly muscle limbs in pace with his step. Xulgag moves up, a few steps away from the bandit.

"I'll do it man! I swear! We don't need her, this is mad--!!!"

Xulgag steps forward and puts forth a mighty kick, lifting his right leg straight forward, bending at the knee and plants it directly in Thelan's chest. The bandit is launched backwards off his feet, his limbs curling pulling inwards like a spider when its squashed. His screams can almost be heard the entire way as he plummets to the bottom of the earth. Almost. The shriek of the small child hits such a pitch that the rest is drowned out.

Xulgag twists his head, a loud pop accompanying the action. He eyeballs the other two men. They run.


Xulgag puts on his sunglasses and walks away....like a baws


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

I gotta hand it to you, Stavo, you do create cool characters. Xulgag is pretty fun. I like your most recent updates a lot.


Thanks bro. You'll like him till you realize he's just a rip off of every kung fu movie I've ever seen. My formula is: Response = Ninji Chop + (Related Scene from Kung Fu Movie + Half Orc) It's complex, I know, but once you get it down it makes responding quick XP


Itinerant GameMaster

Lol, nice "what if?", Ragnar. And indeed, Xulgag could be totally be a kung-fu baws.

I actually did intend to do another quick map, but got caught up helping Jess rearrange my RPG book collection onto the new book shelf we put together yesterday. Very Eastery I know. In all reality, the most movement has been done by Corinne. Everyone else is currently just moving up to the top of the hill. In my descriptions, I had more or less assumed Ragnar would be joining Xulgag at the top.

HOWEVER, Wekel is not actually dead. He's more or less incapacitated as Ragnar's last hit brought him to exactly 0 hit points (I actually had to edit this sentence from saying 'wounds', lol). Your CG status could change with the swing of an axe, Ragnar...Lol, just kidding. But that would be a questionable move, heh.

We will be coming out of combat 'time' and into story 'time' at the end of this round. I will allow you some time to interact with the current cast for a moment before we launch into the next phase of the preview battle which will probably be short, but I want to give you a chance to actually have a maneuvering fight and also see how magic affects things. The next part might get a little technical with determining AoOs and timing and what not, and I think it's important to try and get some of these things exposed to each of you, so we can get feedback and adjustments as appropriate. Magic and abilities are so prevalent, that to not include some of this stuff for the "preview" would just be irresponsible of me.


Ragnars killing of this man wouldn't be questionable! He met force with force. Such a thing would be fine in my eye hahaha.


Itinerant GameMaster

Of course, cuz you are secretly CE. Trust me I already knew. :P

Finishing off a disarmed man on his knees clutching his grievous wound and breathing shallowly while watching you with sadness and regret is absolutely a "Good" move. Lol. Maybe if you were frenzied, we could handwave it, but a conscious choice? I don't know man...


Itinerant GameMaster

Totally sorry guys, I forgot Arielle hadn't gone. I kept expecting Ragnar to make a move, heh. But I got an update in there for you. Then we can get to some fun RP stuff.


I hate alignment so much. I'd say it'd be more CE to let 6 guys trying to kidnap an orphan girl go than to kill them. Especially if they attacked. Ragnar has no way of knowing some pedo hired them to kidnap the girl for himself. Ragnar doesn't know their situation he could only assume these are the scummiest of scumbags. I see no problem killing these guys, it makes the world a better place. Stop using alignment like a shield and tell your story.


Itinerant GameMaster

I am not sure you why keep getting so hostile towards my attempts to remind players of the effects of certain actions. The alignment system in this game is to help moderate what some people wouldn't be able to consider "the line".

Is Ragnar a vigilante? Does he provide summary judgement to a foe for whom he has no relationship? Ragnar and Xulgag do not know anything about these men other than that a woman in the road "claims" that they took her sister. If you're trying to tell me that any "good" person would just kill people indiscriminately just because, I say that you are grossly underestimating the social conditioning of civilized society which would cause the average person to hesitate when confronted with killing.


Itinerant GameMaster

To follow up, my attempts to remind you guys of the alignment system in PF is more to offer you the chance to see the evolution of your own roleplaying. If ODV claims Ragnar is CG or Xulgag claims to be LN, but both of you run around killing like maniacs in Fable, you better expect to start growing some horns. No one is going to stop you from choosing this. Go ahead, do what you want. Notice how I didn't say, "Don't kill Arielle." I said, "You may ruin party cohesion and lose lawfulness." I am flabbergasted that you are unable to see that I have never presented any alignment related comment as something you have to do, but always as a reminder that if you choose "x" then "y" will affect your "on paper" alignment

It's just a fact of the game that allowing you guys to do what you want is actually a disservice to your roleplaying if there are no consequence for your good or bad behavior to your character's psyche. People who kill wantonly are not exactly considered sane regardless of their "pure" or "noble" intent.


Itinerant GameMaster

On a completely different note, and as a counterpoint to my own previous comments if Corinne walked up and shoved a blade between this man's ribs, I would rule that completely non alignment affecting. Why? Is it because she's NN? Not at all. SHE was actually assaulted. SHE watched these men run off with someone for whom she has motherly/sisterly instincts. If she ran up with a chainsaw in both hands and a woodchipper on her back and used them liberally on all these men until the last one alive released Arielle, that would be completely in keeping to her mental state and emotional reaction.

Ragnar and Xulgag are impartial and are taking up a "righteous" cause at the behest of someone in need. I wouldn't personally expect either to immediately slay a combatant who is now incapacitated or unable to defend themselves without good reason.

If you think I care about Wekel or Thelan, that is not the case. They were meant to be nameless thugs, but in true style for me and my ever descriptive roleplay style, I ended up adding a bit of personality to try and make them more interesting than just being Bandits C and E. My story is about Ragnar and how he becomes a king. These ruffians are here only to assist with the mystique of Arielle. This part of the story is just to add to the ever present mystery which will be Arielle and Corinne. (That's right Corinne, you're own mystery is going to be making its appearance.)


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WAIT A SECOND WE CAN GROW HORNS!?!?!

I'll agree, in this scenario, its unlikely that Ragnar would apply finishing blow. Though, really, at this point has he not already killed him? He has a grievous wound out in the woods. Finishing him off would almost be merciful?

Point is, I think Ragnar and Xulgag aren't in tune enough to what is happening right this second, so like ya said they're impartial. If it was a battle(!) then there would be no hesitation to finish off the foe.

Will Ragnar finish him off? Really that is up to the idea of would it be merciful? And would mercy thus be good? I don't know. Would the bandits allies be able to come get him and save him if he DID leave him?

Really, if Ragnar wasn't willing to kill these men, then from the get go we should've been using words and attempting to subdue them(think more nonlethal damage etc.) As it is though, they met us with arms first and it kinda escalated quickly from there.

pinvendor wrote:
People who kill wantonly are not exactly considered sane regardless of their "pure" or "noble" intent

Fair point, and maybe thats something our characters, newly bloodied in actual combat will have to come to grips with soon. I'm in no rush to decide.

Maybe we're looking at the wrong axis of the alignment grid. Maybe it would be more Lawful/Chaotic a question at this point? Would a lawful man end this bandit/kidnapper/guy or would he attempt to turn him over to authorities? What's the specific laws in this land that would affect that? Are these the Stolen Lands we've begun our trek into? It seems likely that we are out here with that intent to reclaim, probably by the sword.

Or MAYBE, Ragnar really isn't as good as I envisioned it thus far?

Maybe he started out CG but now that he out in the wild he can truly succumb to his nature?

Maybe he IS Chaotic Good but through my play he will turn more evil, or more good? I like to view it situation by situation. What WOULD I do if I were there. Its better than to say "I have decided to be always good and lawful," and therefore never truly have a choice in the decisions, it would already be determined.

And uhhh.... This is going swimmingly so lets keep at it!

I am liking these dialogues though. This is good. But I'd rather see it happen through RP. Which I am sure we will see once we get into it. Til then, fuggit no worries.


Itinerant GameMaster

Lol, nice one Fable Master. As if you didn't know that's how it works. :P


You just take the fun out of the game, I guess I want it to be more like Warhammer where the Coup De Grace is used by just bad guys like you say. I feel like this whole time we've been railroaded into your story, regardless of what you say you REALLY want this to go a certain way and it's kind of aggravating. You obviously wanting people to survive so Arielle's "Big Daddy" or "Big Sister" can come out and kill the last of the guys off instead of us. You took away our power of the situation all together. That being the case, you could've just as easily wrote up a back story where all our characters find out Arielle's a summoner instead of adding bandits d,e, and f. So please, finish your story so we can actually start playing.

Again, it strikes me as odd that you don't see anything wrong with the sight of ,now, 6 grown men kidnapping a little girl (and as cody pointed out attacking us). This and being in the Stolen Lands is enough for me to say "hey maybe our characters would kill these obviously bad guys in a lawless territory where there's nobody to turn them over too."


Itinerant GameMaster

Lol, you're so funny, man. You do realize that Xulgag had the opportunity on three separate occasions to prevent the bandits from moving forward. You missed each time until the last, and by then they were at the top of the hill. Aside from that, you wouldn't even be feeling railroaded except you wanted to run through trees like they were either solid walls or the opposite, illusory images, and I argued about that.

Of all the characters, Xulgag had the ability to disrupt the situation early on. Not once did a Deus ex machina or any other contrived plot device enter in to stop you (other than me saying you couldn't get ONE additional square forward because you had to go around some trees).

If you had succeeded in stopping Xulgag and I had handwaved an '01' away or introduced a Black Pigeon to save the bad guys, I could understand your complaining. But none of that happened, so I really don't get what your deal is, man.

And reminding you that your basic instincts as decent mortal beings without ingrained homicidal tendencies is not "taking the fun out of the game". It's a hope that roleplaying and not hack 'n' slash dungeon crawl is actually what is happening.

I offered you the opportunity to make up some monk vows so that you were defining what tenets Xulgag had to cross to break lawful monkhood before consequences occurred, but you haven't done so yet. So naturally, all I have got is what decent, civilized folk would do.

And most people's mores and morals don't desert them just because they step out into the wilderness. So trying to say just because "all I can see is trees" doesn't allow you to Ted Bundy on demand.


Also, one highly questionable act shouldn't be the determining factor of someones alignment. If we lopped of Corrinne's head, yes. Spartan kicked a little girl off a cliff, yes. But no this of all things, why don't you just quietly not to yourself how many bad/grey things we do (and not the stuff we joke about in discussion) and then after so many be like "Hey Xulgag you're no longer lawful, all your monk monk abilities and everything you've spent your whole life training to do is gone, because a chaotic/ ex-monk can't remember s+*& about how to throw a kick really fast."


Alright. This is funny:

Stavo wrote:
Spartan kicked a little girl off a cliff

Ragnar has posted, I believe it moves onto the thugs(?) Point is, we're close to actually starting the real adventure so lets push onwards!


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Itinerant GameMaster

The forum ate my post where I explained that one act doesn't change an alignment. I do plan to keep track, but as this is supposed to be the "preview" I am trying to make sure all things are transparent and obvious, dude. I really don't see why you are always so upset when I point out the things that could affect an alignment. I didn't say change, I said it would be questionable.


Alright man, I'm done fighting with you because we were once friends. I feel that less so than ever as you laugh at me instead of taking me the least bit serious. You win. Good Game.


Itinerant GameMaster

Man, Stavo, you're so dramatic! I threw up that last post as I walked out of the door from work. I really had a good edit to that post where I called ODV Fable Master that offered you RC for doing up some good monk tenets and everything, but it crossed 60 minutes while I was typing.

I was thinking about how upset you are over everything and why all these little things seem to just be getting your goat up no matter how trivial they seem to me. I think one of your recent posts shows what the problem is. You decided at some point you "know" what's going on here in this scenario. So now you keep reading everything that's happening as some kind of plot device, despite the fact that it's your characters (and Arielle's) dice rolls driving the situation.

Since you're quitting I guess it doesn't matter now, but it's a shame you decided that everything I did was negative and not worthy of your time apparently. The worst part of course is that you're incorrect about what's happening. yet because you made your decision about this early on, you've obviously just been letting it eat away at what could have been a fun and entertaining introduction.

I already promised ODV that if you chose to quit, I would keep playing with him, and since it feels like we have lost Corinne, too; I guess he and I will be here if you ever decide that maybe this isn't as serious as you keep trying to make it. I honestly find myself shaking my head over you thinking I don't take you seriously. I admit I think you're wildly exaggerating things and seem to have a skewed view of what societal norms are, but if I didn't think you seriously thought these things, I wouldn't waste all this time trying to explain it to you. I would just say "Shut up, Stavo" and ignore you. It's regretful that it seems to me that you have just been looking for a reason to ragequit despite all the offers I have made to talk or find out what's bothering you specifically.


Itinerant GameMaster

Incidentally, ODV, that same lost edit was also in praise of your illuminating post on alignment. Because that's the kind of stuff I want you to be considering and roleplay on that. If you are thinking that that is what you've got to do, than do it. I see alignments as very fluid similar to Fallout 3 where it takes a bunch of stuff to cause shifts, and it can go back and forth.

My whole reason for bringing certain moments to highlight when it comes to alignment is due to the fact the so many things depend on your alignement. Spell effects, class requirements, calls to deities, etc. If I am keeping a tally, and 4 weeks from now, I am like you just crossed over into Neutral territory, and you're like WTF?! how, i don't want to have a debate about everything that happened in 4 weeks and how I arrived that your alignment changed. I am making specific pronouncements about this or that could affect your alignment for "big" moment, and that's that really. Make whatever choice you want, but now you know where you're headed if you take on path or the other, so the switch 4 weeks later won't be quite a shock. I figured that would be fair, no?

I am sure you're guessing that most of this was what I typed up in the Lost Post, and you would be correct.


I said nothing about quitting. I just don't want to fight with you. I guess I can see why you'd think that, but I just some I'm done argueing. I'll probably just avoid the discussion thread for awhile.

I haven't even considered any of your RC's as legit since you only seem to give me one when an argument pops up. Maybe you are rewarding me, but it feels like you're trying to bribe me to shut up like a child. It's why I've never used one. Also part of the disrespect issue. Feels like you're saying "you're wrong but here's a cookie, f#@! off."


Straight up Stav, thats a fine idea. You play Xulgag just fine and its only OUTSIDE of the game that anything crops up, so fuggit! Don't worry bout it. Keep playing Xul in respect to the events in the game.

Stavo wrote:
Feels like you're saying "you're wrong but here's a cookie, f+%# off."

Straight up, I honestly kinda saw this too, so I understand.

BUT we're making progress, MOVE ALONG!


Itinerant GameMaster

As far as the RCs are concerned, it's just coincidence since usually you are posting your IC stuff at the same time your posting some negative or irate post on the board. Use them if you want or don't. They're not a part of the rules, so you should be able to live without them.


HOLY DICKS PROCEED WITH GAME PLEASE.

Let's hurry up with this preview and get on to adventuring!


Itinerant GameMaster

Sorry about the delay, ODV. I forgot that I didn't remind you that tomorrow is our 3 year wedding anniversary, so many plans are being laid and have distracted me.

The recent high amount of negativity from Stavo and Corinne's disappearance have led me to kind of put this on the backburner while I finalize our hotel and activity plans and focus on the wonderful love of my life. Maybe you will know this joy one day, Herr 'Lick. :D

In the meantime, I am trying to decide if I should let you play this scene out or just write it up and remove player choice from the equation since Stavo has made it clear he doesn't care for this part of the adventure which is of course my own original scenario.

So come Thursday or Friday, I will let you know and get the next part posted. And I suppose until I have re-earned the goodwill of Stavo, I will probably just run the adventure as is with no variation or embellishment, so there won't be any arguing since I will be able to quote chapter and verse as to why something works the way it does.

Until then enjoy your week!


Ah well o course. Happy Anniversary and all that!


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Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

Oh, I'm still here. I've been eating popcorn watching everyone bicker and fight. I'm perfectly happy with how things are going aside from that, so I have nothing to contribute to the arguments. Once the story gets moving back in the gameplay thread, I'll be there posting as normal.

P.S - Happy Anniversary!


Itinerant GameMaster

The game is officially on hiatus. Every time I go to post nothing is coming out right. My creativity is not flowing. Guess Stavo's negative reaction to everything is kind of souring the story in my head.

I don't want to abandon this. Just give me a week or so to rest my mind and we'll be going again.


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

Ok, no problem. I'll check every couple days or so to see what's going on here :)


Aye


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Haha sorry about that guys :(


If you nerds don't know about reddit.com yet here's something interesting that was up there today:

http://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/sg3g3/we_make_pathfinderask_us_anythin g/

A few of the folks who make Pathfinder answer some random questions about stuff. Check it out!


Female Human Level 1 Time Thief

Well, I'm online at work now FINALLY. Able to check the internet and stuff on a regular basis. So that's good news :)

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