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Kingmaker

Game Master Dreaming Warforged

Bold and just adventurers exploring and settling the Stolen Lands.
Now at the beginning of vol. 4 - Blood for Blood


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Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Is someone planning to post a month of kingdom development? I can do another if you'd prefer to give some time to get the feel of it.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

At Kalsgrim: There's no going out to an open field and blowing yourself up, dude. Can Janku identify to see if that's what it really is?

I wouldn't mind you posting another one, DW. I'm trying to understand it. I'm gonna have to read over it again and again. Hopefully I can catch onto it.


Javell DeLeon wrote:

At Kalsgrim: There's no going out to an open field and blowing yourself up, dude. Can Janku identify to see if that's what it really is?

I wouldn't mind you posting another one, DW. I'm trying to understand it. I'm gonna have to read over it again and again. Hopefully I can catch onto it.

I don't think I would have time to do a kingdom turn post until the weekend, but I'd love to see an example with the updated rule set.

I don't think Kalsgrim would necessarily blow himself up, with his saving throws and Hero's Defiance spell. But if Janku can figure it out without fireworks, then so much the better.

But come on, you know you want to see Kalsgrim like a Warner Brothers cartoon character that just smoked an exploding cigar! Charred black except for two wide, white blinking eyes. :)


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Okay. You talked me into it. That would be funny. And as long as your hair is shot straight up in the air as well, as if you've just been electrocuted, then I'm good. :)

On the metagamey side of it, it's not gonna be enough to kill you. There will be damage and Janku can heal you and that'll be that.

But on a non-metagamey side of it, Kriger would elect to take the blast damage for you, and Janku would have to be there as well--to help with damage control.

That's how I would see it play out in IC. Of course, I'm sure Kalsgrim would "discuss" that with Kriger. ;)


Master of Procrastination and Grognardia

I need to take a day out to read the kingdom building rules.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

@Kalsgrim: You gonna get yourself a cool horse now? Or are you going with the whole "enhance your weapon" bit? Just curious.


I'm going with the enhanced weapon route. I did a brief montage in the play thread on how Kal came about to it. I didn't think the benefits of the horse were strong enough, and in character Kal hasn't been really tied to mounts. For now, having a flaming bow is a nice perk, but later on brilliant energy arrows should be awesome!


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Can't go wrong with some brilliant energy, bro. :)

Hey OM, what have you altered or maybe just done differently as per the kingdom rules we have been going by?


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

First big change is: no more rolling. You get your resources (actions) based on what you've built. Also, Economy, Stability and Loyalty are now static, but they need to remain higher than the kingdom's size.

Finally, I've strealined buildings and cities so it's simpler to handle, but I might come up with a few examples for special buildings.

All this is on trial basis. Any comment is welcomed.


Male Half-orc Inquisitor/6th, AC 21, 55/55 hp

I'm not too saavy when it comes to homebrewed rules so can't really give my opinion.


The turn you posted and the updated rules look great. Did I miss in the campaign profile where the expenses and benefits of the various buildings were listed? I recall something about buying troops and defenses for a city; are troops treated like a building, a monthly expense or both?


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Good point. I'll look into it and other special rules for buildings.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Hey OM, aren't we suppose to claim an area that's next to a hex? Or does it matter?


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Yes you are, but this is a special xase, as you had settlers working at founding a new city (DM fiat of sorts).


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Will anyone try posting a month of kingdom development? I'll try to do it from time to time to help, but I would prefer if the players took turns. Perhaps let everyone know you're working on it to avoid being ninjaed?


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Other Mastermind wrote:
Yes you are, but this is a special xase, as you had settlers working at founding a new city (DM fiat of sorts).

Gotcha. Was just curious. Thanks.


I would like to give a shot at posting a month of development. Is the cost and benefits of the buildings posted somewhere that I can get at it?


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

It's in the rules in the Campaign Info tab. For now, the buildings are streamlined as bonuses. You decide whether its a shrine or a bordello that gives the bonus.

I'll be working on other effects of buildings and am opened to suggestions.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Do we have to claim a hex every time? I've been looking at the rules in the AP, and I think if we would've claimed maybe a couple or three hexes in the beginning, and then concentrated on the city itself, maybe that would've been better for us?

I had no idea a "city" hex was divided into 9 squares. Which in turn, each of those 9 were divided into 4 smaller squares. So we could technically put 36 buildings in a city hex. We won't because some buildings take up 2 of the smaller squares, and some take up all 4.

Gonna go back over the rules again. I feel like I'm making progress(hopefully) in understanding this business.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Hey Javell, my rules do not follow most of those found in the AP. They are a simplification. Perhaps you should read both in parallel...


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Will do. Thanks for the heads up.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Did you remove build points? I can't seem to find them.

Osirion

Some dude
Javell DeLeon wrote:
Do we have to claim a hex every time? I've been looking at the rules in the AP, and I think if we would've claimed maybe a couple or three hexes in the beginning, and then concentrated on the city itself, maybe that would've been better for us?

Since the number we rolled against for Economy seemed to be based off of the number of hexes we claimed, it might indeed have been a far better idea to never claim a hex outside of hex containing the city, and keep our Kingdom Size at 1. I had, at the beginning, the notion that more farms would help us with our economy, but consumption didn't seem to be that big of a deal, and the costs of expanding (and ever increasing difficulty of the rolls) kind of ate us alive.

So, I think that limiting ourselves to our city hex, for the first few years, or maybe a couple of hexes next to it, at most, might have been a better idea. But, given my success rate at the whole kingdom-building thing, take that with a whole shaker full of salt. :)


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

You know, that's what I was thinking after taking an umpteen hundreth look at the rules. I should've been more thorough at looking at the rules in the beginning.

Like I said, I didn't realize all that was involved within a city hex. Otherwise, I could've been more helpful.(Again, sorry for leaving you hanging out to dry like that, buddy. Now I'm even more irritated at myself.)

Yeah, even though there were a couple of ones rolled; as far as I'm concerned, I don't think it really has any adverse affect on us. So nothing happens for a month. That ain't no big thing.

Osirion

Some dude
Javell DeLeon wrote:
You know, that's what I was thinking after taking an umpteen hundreth look at the rules. I should've been more thorough at looking at the rules in the beginning.

Eh. Technically, we weren't supposed to read them anyway, so I'd hardly fault you for not going over them with a fine-tooth comb. :)

I was really gung-ho to get this AP when it showed up as part of one of the Christmas sale deals ('cause that's how profoundly cheap I am), too, but now, I've kind of lost that loving feeling for it. It's gone, gone, gone, whoa-oh-oh-oh.

I've never been the best min-maxer in the world (hence my Eidolon being one attack below optimum and blowing Evolution points on flavor stuff like wings and skilled and scent), but it feels to me like I've missed something huge and obvious with the kingdom-building rules, so I'm looking forward to hearing what you find out.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Now, when we first started the kingdom building we built a stable at Oleg's. And we built a Tradesman(Baker) also.

The AP says we have to have a +500gp of City base value for both of those. We weren't at that initially, were we? If not, is this something you tweaked, possibly?

That's 20 BP right off the bat. Maybe that's too much to spend for an early kingdom?

Again, I'm only asking to try and get an understanding of what's going on.

A part of me feels like--now that it's too late--that we could've made this work doing it the original way we were doing it.

@Set: Yeah, I never usually go and look stuff like this up, because I feel like I'm cheating. But the only way I can understand something, is by reading it, again and again. Now if DW would've put pages 55 - 65 in book 2 of the AP in his campaign info, then that would've been greatness! ;)

lol! Don't lose that lovin' feelin' dude! (Great song, by the way) :)

More on the way...


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Kalsgrim wrote:

5. No changes to initial leadership.

6. Claim the hex of Oleg’s place, cost 1 to claim.
7. Development. Build Farm in Oleg’s hex, costs 2 for plains. Comes with road.
8. Establish Providence, costs 1. Improve city. Build Mill, costs 10.
9. Set edicts.

8. Establish/Improve Cities: You may build 1 new city per turn on an explored hex by paying 1 BP. You may improve any city, including one built this turn, by paying the BP cost of the desired building. You are limited to 1 new building per city each turn; each city can build an additional number of buildings per turn equal to the number of Mills in that city. See Chart 2 for their effects.
9. Set Edicts: Adjust the edict levels of Taxation, Festivals, and Promotion to the desired levels.
Promotion: Standard, costs 2.
Taxation: Normal, +2 economy, -2 loyalty.
Festivals: 6, +2 loyalty, costs 2.

Okay, this is Kalsgrim's first post. Initially, he mentioned building a farm. You actually don't have to build a farm, to build a city. And you can't have both in the same hex. A farm takes up and entire hex. It's one or the other.

(A mill cost 6 BP by the way.)

Anyway, the mill we built has to be built next to water. It says we have to decide which of the district's borders are water. Just fyi.

Promotion: Standard (+2 Stability, +2 bp)
Taxation: Normal (+2 economy, -2 loyalty)
Festivals: 6 (+2 loyalty, +2 bp)

So, starting at 50 BP, we have +1 to claim, +1 to prepare the land, +6 for the mill, 42 bp for the next phase.

So, for the next phase, going by the edicts plus these current stats:

Economy: +14
(Buildings +1(mill), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +12
(Buildings, Edicts -2/+2, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +14
(Buildings +1(mill), Edicts +2, Leadership +11)

1. Stability check, including +4 for the Ruler bonus. 1d20 + 18 ⇒ (12) + 18 = 30 So we are stable. All we need is a roll equal to our Command DC which at this time is 21. (DC 20 + hexes claimed) And because of this, we gain 1 BP due to making our roll. If we had any unrest, it's -1 to that.

2. Pay consumption: 6 bp: Edicts(-4), Size(-1), City(-1), Stability(+1) = 37 bp left.

3. Unrest(none)

4. Leadership changes(none)

5. Claim Hexes. Claim the hex with Bokken's Hut. Spend 1 BP. (36 bp)

6. Develop Hexes. Build road in Bokken's Hut Hex. -1 BP. Build Farms in Bokken's Hut Hex. -2 BP. (33bp)

7. Establish / Claim Cities. Build House (3 BP) and Baker(Smith instead) (6 BP). (24bp)
A Baker(called Tradesman) actually cost 10bp. I'm gonna throw a Smith in there for grins. It's only 6 bp.

8. Edicts(No change)

9. Economy check, including +4 for the Spymaster bonus. 1d20 + 18 ⇒ (8) + 18 = 26 Command DC being 22(I guess you would include the newly acquired hex) we succeed. So that's +5 BP's.

So for the next phase these are our current numbers:

Economy: +15
(Buildings +2(mill, smith), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +12
(Buildings, Edicts -2/+2, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +15
(Buildings +1(mill, smith), Edicts +2, Leadership +11)

Total BP's = 29 BP's.

Promotion: Standard (+2 Stability, +2 bp)
Taxation: Normal (+2 economy, -2 loyalty)
Festivals: 6 (+2 loyalty, +2 bp)

Total consumption at this point = (+1 city; +2 size; +4 edicts; -2 farm) +5 total for next turn.

So for the next turn, we will have 24 bp's to spend. Claim another hex(which would make 3 total hexes), build another farm(-3 bp's; 21 bp's) and add to the city again.(A +4 or +6; Say 15 bp's) Consumption then drops to +4 for the next turn. Unless we drop festivals to 1 per year. Which would be a +1 to BP and then we've got +3 BP consumption for the next turn. Make rolls(DC 23 with 3 hexes; 24 with 4). Minimum of 25 gets us 5 bp's back. Looking at it, it's gonna be a slow process at first, but shouldn't it be? Anything you start off new is gonna take time for it to grow.

Now, compare the numbers I have here. With what I've thrown out there, our numbers are better with this, than what we have right now:

Size 10:

Economy: +15

Loyalty: +12

Stability: +14

Size 2:

Economy: +15

Loyalty: +12(+11 if we drop festivals down to 1 per year)

Stability: +15

And I guarantee you, if we would have done it this way, by the time we make it to 10 claimed hexes, I bet you are numbers could be far greater. Of course, that would have a lot to do with claiming no hexes for several months. Our numbers would be better, but it would take longer to get to 10 hexes. It's a trade off.

I'm telling you, I think it can work. We add small time stuff to the city, which adds bonuses to whatever. And if we drop festivals to 1; go with the three hexes we claim; it's -3bp per turn. If you want we can claim one more hex, make it farmland, which then reduces our BP to -2 per turn. But then stop at 4 claimed hexes and build our city up from there.

HA! HA! I think I'm figuring this crap out. The only problem is, what I've figured out is the AP rules and not DW's.

But I still feel a whole heckuva lot better about it, though. I hate being lost on something like this. I love numbers crunching. I'm no super mathematician by any means, but I love it.

I've based these on Kalsgrim's and Servayn's initial post. These are the first 2 hexes claimed. And I've based this completely off of the AP rules.

Yes I know the downfall of that, but there's descriptive text there that really helps me a lot.

I'm just throwing this out here to get a feel for it. But again, I think it can be successful this way. Solely my opinion, though.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Good point, and I'm happy to see you get the hang of it.

So...

Should we build using the official rules or stick with my simplified ones???

I don't mind either way. I want the group to enjoy the game though.

Be heard!


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Man, it's definitely a relief. I was worried I was never gonna get it. It's quite frustrating to not know what's going on.

You're right Set, this is freaking fun!

To clear a few things up, I was wrong about the stable and all that being built early. I was reading the description wrong.

I mentioned we had to have +500g city base value to build it. That's actually what it adds to the city. Yay! We start at 200g and that would make it 700g.

But it must be built next to a house though. As well as the Baker.

I'm gonna toss out the turns 3, 4, and 5 eventually. Just for my own fun sake. I've now gone from, "Meh." to, "Get out of my way, boys! I'm insane and don't know what I'm capable of! MWHAHAHAHAHAHA!" :)

That last post just killed me. It took forever. Maybe later tonight. Maybe.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

You know what I didn't include? The stable that we get from claiming the hex at Oleg's.

It states if you establish a city in a hex at a building location, you can incorporate the building into the city as a free building.

Stable is Economy +1; Loyalty +1 +500gp to the city base value.

So, with that, we move to turn 3.

TURN 3

Economy: +16
(Buildings +3(mill, smith, stable), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +13
(Buildings +1(stable), Edicts -2/+2, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +15
(Buildings +2(mill, smith), Edicts +2, Leadership +11)

Total BP's = 29

Total consumption at this point = (+1 city; +2 size; +4 edicts; -2 farm) +5 total for next turn.

1. Stability check, including +4 for the Ruler bonus.(DC 22) 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (9) + 19 = 28 +1 BP; 30 BP for turn.

2. Pay consumption: Edicts(-4), Size(-2), City(-1), Farm(+2) = +5 BP. Total 25 BP's

3. Unrest (Still awesome. House -1, Spymaster -1) +0

4. Leadership changes(none)

5. Claim Hexes. Claim the hex with Spider's nest. -1 BP. (24 bp)

6. Develop Hexes. Build road in Spider's Nest Hex. -1 BP. Build Farms in Spider's Nest Hex. -2 BP. (21 bp)

7. Establish / Claim Cities. Build House (-3 BP) and Baker(Tradesman) (-10 BP). (8 bp)

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Standard (+2 Stability, +2 bp)
Taxation: Normal (+2 economy, -2 loyalty)
Festivals: 0 (-1 loyalty, 0 bp) Will go ahead and drop to 0 for now. I think DW mentioned going without events for the first 6 months. That's all loyalty affects. So I'm gonna see what we can do within the first 6. But, I really think we ought to use them. I think it would be fun. :) For now, though, will continue under the 6 month trial. Or one year. Whatever it was, I'm not sure.

9. Economy check, including +4 for the Spymaster bonus. Command DC 23. 1d20 + 20 ⇒ (19) + 20 = 39 +7 to BP.

So, with that, after a 3rd turn we've got:

Three hexes claimed.

Economy: +17
(Buildings +4(mill, smith, stable, baker), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +11
(Buildings, Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +16
(Buildings +3(mill, smith, baker), Edicts +2, Leadership +11

Total consumption at this point = (+1 city; +3 size; +2 edicts; -4 farm) +2 total for next turn.

Total BP = 15.

TURN 4

Turn 4 (size 3)
1. Stability check, .(DC 23) 1d20 + 16 ⇒ (1) + 16 = 17 From one extreme to the other. What are you gonna do? Auto-fail. Unrest +2

2. Pay consumption: Edicts(-3), Size(-2), City(-1), Farm(+4) = +2 BP. Total +13 BP's

3. Unrest 0 (+2 to failed Stability check, -1 house, -1 Royal Assassin)

4. Leadership changes (assigning Ruler bonus, as well as Spymaster bonus, to Economy for next turns roll)

6. Claim plains hex (-1 BP) (+12 bp)

7. Build farm on that hex (-2 BP, -2 consumption) (+10 bp)

8. Build road (-1 bp) (+9 bp) That's 4 roads = +1 Economy

9. Build shop (6 BP, +1 economy; +500gp to base city value) (+3 bp)

10. Set Edicts:

Promotion: Token (+1 Stability, +1 bp) Dropped to Token.
Taxation: Token (+2 economy, -2 loyalty)
Festivals: 0 (-1 loyalty, 0 bp)

11. Economy check: DC 23 1d20 + 26 ⇒ (11) + 26 = 37 +7 to BP

12. Events

So after 4 turns, we have:

Four claimed hexes.

Economy: +19
(Buildings +5(mill, smith, stable, baker, shop), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2, +1 roads)

Loyalty: +10
(Buildings +1(stable), Edicts -3, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +15
(Buildings +3(mill, smith, baker), Edicts +1, Leadership +11

Total consumption at this point = (+1 city; +4 size; +1 edicts; -6 farm) +0 total for next turn.

Total BP = 10

City's base value = 1200g Not exactly sure what this entails, but, that's for another day

Here is where we stop claiming hexes and build up the city. I'll try and get to another turn tomorrow.

We're gonna have to suffer on some stability and loyalty at the moment.

And I've stayed within what Servayn built. :)

You know, Set, you rolled really good on Economy checks during this time, buddy. Plus 15 on turns 4 and 5. That's pretty dang good!


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

I'm not sure how you get the BP from stability checks? As you roll Economy, you divide by five your result if you're successful.

More confusion also comes from the fact that we used DM Barcas' adaptation of the rules.


Master of Procrastination and Grognardia

gah, still need to read up the rules for kingdom building, especially as my group is going to head over and stick a hot poker up the Stag Lord's arse.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Other Mastermind wrote:
I'm not sure how you get the BP from stability checks? As you roll Economy, you divide by five your result if you're successful.

Yeah, I know there's going to be a lot of confustion due to the fact I'm using straight AP rules. I'm just going by what I've read from there.

Per the AP: When you roll a Stability check, if you make your roll, then you reduce Unrest by 1. If you have 0 Unrest, then you gain 1 BP.

My result is 37. And divided by 5 is 7.4. Which would mean 7. Unless I've misunderstood something somewhere. Which is possible. I'm still trying to get the hang of this. I've got the gist of it, it's the little things that I'm gonna miss and are gonna bite me. If I am misunderstanding, please tell me. I'm trying to get this right.

Just to be clear, this is just to help me get a clear understanding of it all works. I'm attempting to go over what we've already done, as if we haven't actually done any of it. Seeing how you are using Barcus's rules, this is all gonna be off.

I tell you what, I can do this on pen and paper. That way, I'll stop clogging up the discussion thread and we can just carry on as we are. It really feels like I'm clogging things up and I hate that feeling. I just feel rude.


You aren't being rude. I am reading along trying to get the hang of the process and I appreciate you, Set and DW working thorugh this to the benefit of all. And there isn't anything keeping us from advancing in the play thread parallel to this in the discussion thread.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Okay, I took a look at Barcas's rules. They aren't really that different from the AP's. It would appear he has just added some things here and there just for kicks, really. I don't really understand why, to be honest.

Okay, looking at what he's done with the buildings,(Man I have no idea why someone would change SOOOOO much. It really doesn't make sense to me. But that's just me.) here is a comparison of his Market and the AP's Market.

Barcas's Market and Inn:

Market: (12 bp; +2 to Economy)

Inn: (10bp; Market in same district;) +1 Economy, +1 Stability; It adds +1 to Economy for Market

I put the Inn in there because of the affect it had on the Market

AP's Market and Inn:

Market: (48 bp; must be located adjacent to 2 houses)
+2000g to city base value; halves cost of Black Market, Inn and Shop in same city; 2 minor items; Economy +2, Stability +2

Inn: (10bp, must be adjacent to 1 house): City base value +500g; Economy +1; Loyalty +1

(Just to be clear, the italicized is what is gained when you build said building. Yes, gained. Two minor items is pretty dang cool.) :)

Okay, the major difference I'm seeing here is cost. The AP's market is 38bp higher. Obviously making it difficult to afford in the beginning. I think there is a reason for that. Outside of that, I feel the AP's market far outweighs the benefits of his.
___________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________

I've also noticed that he's cut out nearly all of the buildings benefits. Nearly every building in the AP has a +1 to 2 stats. Nearly every building he has, only gives you a +1 to 1 stat. Not all, but the majority.

It would appear he just felt like going through and changing things up because he had tons of time to kill. Now I see where we got the 2 differing abilities tied to the Warden. Why would he change that? That is so minor, it's unnecessary. In my opinion, all that extra work was really unnecessary.

I have a question: Do any of you know if the AP rules are broke? So far, I would say no. But, I've only done 4 mock turns and who knows how it may turn out. I think it can work, but, that really doesn't mean much.

@Markofbane: I appreciate that, buddy. I'm still trying to work through it to get a feel for it. I know I've made some errors here and there, just trying to clean it up.

Osirion

Some dude

I definitely appreciate your tinkering around with the system, Javell.

It kicked my ass up and down the playground, and I'm happy to leave you to it!


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

There is a lot of energy to be involved if we go kingdom building. It's not worth it unless at least two of the players get involved, perhaps with me as well.

So I ask again: Who's up, and what rules?


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Yeah, I agree with Mastermind.

I found out, when you build a building that requires a house, that house is 'tied' to that building specifically. And ONLY that building.

I did not know that. So, in essence, what I've thrown out there, some of it is irrelevant. Things have to be changed up now. That bit of information alters a lot. So it would be back to the drawing board.

I'm gonna be honest, NOW that I know what the heck I'm doing(mostly), I really would prefer the AP rules. Mainly because I think Barcas's rules are just reflavor. Which is fine; it's his game. I know I wouldn't do it, but, that's just me.

And just for the record, AK uses the AP rules. I was thinking he changed them all up, or somthing. He has a couple of rules he created for the magic item business end of it. The one house rule he has is for the Mansion. It is a +1 to Loyalty with a cost of 10bp. With such a high cost, he decided to let it count as a house. Outside of that, he goes strictly by the AP.

I actually had 3 more turns done yesterday, and lost it. Which didn't matter after having learned about the 'house' issue.

After turn 7, my total bp = 7. Why so low, you ask? During turns 5, 6, and 7; I rolled a 4, 5, and a 1. One is an autofail. So I managed +10 bp on THREE rolls. :( Man that was killer. With rolling like that, it turns into slow growth. But, what are you gonna do.

I got this back down: Unrest +0 Previously +2 due to bad rolling earlier I made all 3 Stability checks which reduces your Unrest by 1 each time, if you have any. So I got it back down to 0 and gained 1 BP.

My three stats I had were:

Economy: +21

Loyalty: +11

Stability: +17

Promotion: Token (+2 Stability, +2 bp) Dropped to Token. (Eventually raised to Standard, as stated below)
Taxation: Token (+2 economy, -2 loyalty)
Festivals: 0 (-1 loyalty, 0 bp)

Again, irrelevant now, but not bad after 7 turns, comparatively.

But I claimed another plain hex for farm, which drove our Command DC to 25. I did that to get a -8 to consumption so I could kick the Promotion Edict back up to Standard. Stability is so key.

I think the point is to get Economy built up, to where we can put the Ruler and Spymaster bonus into the other two. Either that, or get Stability to the point to where if we roll a 1, the result is less than 5. That way we don't have to worry about the +2 to Unrest.

I hate having to wipe out Unrest with Stability checks. It takes away on gaining bp. And BP is like gold for kingdom building.

Just my thoughts on it, though. Nothing more.

Oh and Kalsgrim, I really think you ought to find you a bride. Just sayin'. ;)


Well, Svetlana is taken... How about "N."? She sounds pretty hot! :D

I don't have an opinion on which ruleset to go with for kingdom building. OM, have you given any thought as to the Action Point or Hero Point options? Do you want to stay with SdF's APs, Paizo's Hero Points, something else or nothing at all?


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Lol! Maybe we ought to invite her over. ;)


Human Paladin 10 HPs 10/85, Sickened, AC 21 FF 19 T 13 CMD 23 Fort +17 Ref +13 Will +15 Init +2 Per +2

Dear N.,

I heard about you through a mutual acquaintance and thought we might be a good match based on our mutual desire to rule this land. I'm tall (I know everyone says that, but I really am!) and fair (in every sense of the word). My interests include horseback riding, archery and smiting evil. Let me know!

Signed K.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Killing me!!! That's just greatness! :D


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Nice!


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

I took a gander at AK's group's city. Here are their main stats:

Economy = +47

Loyalty = +36

Stability = +35

They are a size 17.

Control DC = 37. So they are pretty much rockin' when it comes to making checks. Barring bad events,(which they're in one right now) their really only worry is the natural roll of one. Anything outside of that = a win.

The one advantage they have is they have a pc(turned npc) as the leader's wife.

Still, even without that, they are quite prosperous. Because her charisma bonus is only added to one stat at this time. I think by size 20 or 21 then they get to add to 2 stats.

As with the info on the houses, the mill also can't be built where we are. We actually are gonna have to claim a hex that has water in it. The location of the Stag Lord's fort on Tuskwater Lake would be an obvious spot.(Mainly for Piers) Probably the best spot. Of course, any cities built in a river hex would be a good spot for a mill.

This is all bearing if any of you still want to do this.

I think it could be fun and quite challenging. It's obviously gonna be challenging at first, but you see what the results could possibly become.

I can't wait to see what they manage later on. They actually have 2 other cities but those are in their infant stages.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Would Bokken's hut be considered a Landmark hex?

I wasn't here for that encounter, so, I have no idea what that is.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Turn 1:
Total BP = 50

Improvement Phase:

1. Select Leadership: Done

2. Claim Hex: Oleg's place (-1BP)

3. Development: Build City (-1BP) (Immediate)

3. Improve city: House(-3bp); Stable(free bldg)(Oleg's); Smith(-6 BP)

4. Build roads: Road is present

6. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +15
(Buildings +2(Stable, Smith), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +12
(Buildings+1(Stable), Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +13
(Buildings +1(Smith), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 21: 1d20 + 15 + 4 ⇒ (16) + 15 + 4 = 35 (+4 Ruler) +5 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 2 (25% or less) No event

Total BP spent = -11; Total gained = +5

Total BP = 44

City base value: 700gp

Buildings:
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
House (x1); -1 Unrest

Turn 2:

SIZE 1

Upkeep Phase:

1. Stability check: (DC 21) 1d20 + 17 ⇒ (3) + 17 = 20 (+4 Ruler) +1 BP

2. Pay Consumption: (+2 Edicts; +1 city; +1 hex) = (-4 BP)

3. Unrest 0 (-1 House, -1 Royal Assassin)

Improvement Phase:

4. Leadership: No changes

5. Claim Hexes: Claim the hex with Bokken's Hut. (-1 BP)

6. Improve City: Build Library (-6 BP)

7. Develop Hexes. Build road. (-1 BP) Build Farms. (-2 BP)

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +16
(Buildings +3(Stable, Smith, Library), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +13
(Buildings +2(Stable, Library), Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +13
(Buildings +1(Smith), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 22 : 1d20 + 16 + 4 ⇒ (19) + 16 + 4 = 39 (+4 Spymaster) +7 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 12 (75% or less)
Event: 1d100 ⇒ 87
New Vassals: A small group of indigenous creatures joins your kingdom and submits to your rule. Reduce Unrest by 2 and gain 1d6 BP(each time you roll a 6, reroll that die and add the result to the total.) 1d6 ⇒ 3

Total BP spent = -14; Total gained = +11

Total BP = 41

City base value: 700gp

Size: 2 (City x1; Farm x1)

Control DC: 22

Buildings:
Library: +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
House (x1); -1 Unrest

Turn 3:

SIZE 2

Upkeep Phase:

1. Stability check: (DC 22) 1d20 + 17 ⇒ (18) + 17 = 35 (+4 Ruler) (+ 1 BP)

2. Pay Consumption: (+2 Edicts; +1 city; +2 hex; -2 farm) = (3 BP)

3. Unrest 0 (-1 House, -1 Royal Assassin)

Improvement Phase:

4. Leadership: No changes

5. Claim Hexes: None

6. Improve City: Build Theater (24 BP)

7. Develop Hexes. None

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +19
(Buildings +6(Stable, Smith, Library, Shop, Theater(+2)), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +13
(Buildings +2(Stable, Library), Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +15
(Buildings +1(Smith, Theater(+2)), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 22 : 1d20 + 19 + 4 ⇒ (15) + 19 + 4 = 38 (+4 Spymaster) + 7 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 20 (25% or less)
Event: 1d100 ⇒ 45
Monsters Attack! Stability check 1d20 + 15 ⇒ (12) + 15 = 27 Success!

Total BP spent = -27; Total gained = +8 BP

Total BP = 22

City base value: 700gp

Size: 2 (City x1; Farm x1)

Control DC: 22

Buildings:
Library: +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Theater: +2 Economy, +2 Stability Halves cost of Brothel, Park, and Tavern in same city
House (x1); -1 Unrest

Turn 4:

Size 2

Upkeep Phase:

Total BP = 22

1. Stability check: (DC 22) 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (4) + 19 = 23 (+4 Ruler) (+1 BP)

2. Pay Consumption: (+2 Edicts; +1 city; +2 hex; -2 farm) = (+3 BP)

3. Unrest 0 (-1 House, -1 Royal Assassin)

Improvement Phase:

4. Leadership: No changes

5. Claim Hexes: None

6. Improve City: Build House (3 BP); Build Brothel (2 BP)

7. Develop Hexes. None

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +20
(Buildings +7(Stable, Smith, Library, Shop, Theater(+2), Brothel), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +15
(Buildings +2(Stable, Library, Brothel(+2)), Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +15
(Buildings +1(Smith, Theater(+2)), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 22 : 1d20 + 20 ⇒ (9) + 20 = 29 +5 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 93 (25% or less) No event
Event: NA

Total BP spent = 8; Total gained = 6 BP

Total BP = 20

City base value: 700gp

Size: 2 (City x1; Farm x1)

Control DC: 22

Buildings:
Brothel: +1 Economy, +2 Loyalty; Unrest +2
Library: +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Theater: +2 Economy, +2 Stability Halves cost of Brothel, Park, and Tavern in same city
House (x2); -2 Unrest

Turn 5:

Size 2

Upkeep Phase:

Total BP = 20

1. Stability check: (DC 22) 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (6) + 19 = 25 (+4 Ruler) (+1 BP)

2. Pay Consumption: (+2 Edicts; +1 city; +2 hex; -2 farm) = (+3 BP)

3. Unrest 0 (+1 Brothel, -2 House, -1 Royal Assassin)

Improvement Phase:

4. Leadership: No changes

5. Claim Hexes: None

6. Improve City: Build House (3 BP); Build Tavern (6 BP)

7. Develop Hexes. None

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +21
(Buildings +7(Stable, Smith, Library, Shop, Theater(+2), Brothel, Tavern), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +16
(Buildings +2(Stable, Library, Brothel(+2), Tavern), Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +15
(Buildings +1(Smith, Theater(+2)), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 22 : 1d20 + 21 ⇒ (4) + 21 = 25 +5 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 76 (75% or less) No event
Event: NA

Total BP spent = 12; Total gained = 6 BP

Total BP = 14

City base value: 1200gp

Size: 2 (City x1; Farm x1)

Control DC: 22

Buildings:
Brothel: +1 Economy, +2 Loyalty; Unrest +2
Library: +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Tavern: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Theater: +2 Economy, +2 Stability Halves cost of Brothel, Park, and Tavern in same city
House (x3); -3 Unrest

Turn 6:

Size 2

Upkeep Phase:

Total BP = 14

1. Stability check: (DC 22) 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (14) + 19 = 33 (+4 Ruler) (+1 BP)

2. Pay Consumption: (+2 Edicts; +1 city; +2 hex; -2 farm) = (+3 BP)

3. Unrest 0 (+1 Brothel, -3 House, -1 Royal Assassin)

Improvement Phase:

4. Leadership: No changes

5. Claim Hexes: None

6. Improve City: Monument (-6 BP)

7. Develop Hexes. None

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +21
(Buildings +8(Stable, Smith, Library, Shop, Theater(+2), Brothel, Tavern), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +19
(Buildings +2(Stable, Library, Brothel(+2), Tavern, Monument(+3), Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +15
(Buildings +1(Smith, Theater(+2)), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 22 : 1d20 + 21 + 4 ⇒ (16) + 21 + 4 = 41 +8 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 25 (75% or less)
Event: 1d100 ⇒ 84
Sensational Crime(continous) Stability check: 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (11) + 19 = 30 (+4 Ruler) Success!

Total BP spent = 9; Total gained = 9 BP

Total BP = 14

City base value: 1200gp

Size: 2 (City x1; Farm x1)

Control DC: 22

Buildings:
Brothel: +1 Economy, +2 Loyalty; Unrest +1
Library: +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Monument: +3 Loyalty, -1 Unrest
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Tavern: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Theater: +2 Economy, +2 Stability Halves cost of Brothel, Park, and Tavern in same city
House (x3); -3 Unrest

Turn 7:

Size 2

Upkeep Phase:

Total BP = 14

1. Stability check: (DC 22) 1d20 + 19 ⇒ (20) + 19 = 39 (+4 Ruler) (+1 BP)

2. Pay Consumption: (+2 Edicts; +1 city; +2 hex; -2 farm) = (+3 BP)

3. Unrest 0 (+1 Brothel, -3 House, -1 Royal Assassin, -1 Monument)

Improvement Phase:

4. Leadership: No changes

5. Claim Hexes: Spider's nest (1 BP)

6. Improve City: None

7. Develop Hexes. Build road (1 BP); Establish Farm (2 BP)

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +21
(Buildings +8(Stable, Smith, Library, Shop, Theater(+2), Brothel, Tavern), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +19
(Buildings +2(Stable, Library, Brothel(+2), Tavern, Monument(+3), Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +15
(Buildings +1(Smith, Theater(+2)), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 23 : 1d20 + 21 + 4 ⇒ (16) + 21 + 4 = 41 +8 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 94 (75% or less) None
Event: NA

Total BP spent = 7; Total gained = 9 BP

Total BP = 16

City base value: 1200gp

Size: 3 (City x1; Farm x2)

Control DC: 23

Buildings:
Brothel: +1 Economy, +2 Loyalty; Unrest +1
Library: +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Monument: +3 Loyalty, -1 Unrest
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Tavern: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Theater: +2 Economy, +2 Stability Halves cost of Brothel, Park, and Tavern in same city
House (x3); -3 Unrest

Turn 8:

Size 3

Upkeep Phase:

Total BP = 16

1. Stability check: (DC 23) 1d20 + 15 ⇒ (18) + 15 = 33 (+1 BP)

2. Pay Consumption: (+2 Edicts; +1 city; +3 hex; -4 farm) = (+2 BP)

3. Unrest 0 (+1 Brothel, -3 House, -1 Royal Assassin, -1 Monument)

Improvement Phase:

4. Leadership: No changes

5. Claim Hexes: None

6. Improve City: Build Tannery (6 BP)

7. Develop Hexes.

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +22
(Buildings +9(Stable, Smith, Library, Shop, Theater(+2), Brothel, Tavern, Tannery), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2)

Loyalty: +19
(Buildings +8(Stable, Library, Brothel(+2), Tavern, Monument(+3), Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +16
(Buildings +4(Smith, Theater(+2), Tannery), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 23 : 1d20 + 22 + 4 + 4 ⇒ (20) + 22 + 4 + 4 = 50 +10 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 55 (75% or less)
Event: 1d100 ⇒ 44
Good Weather: Good weather raises spirits and productivity. You gain a +4 bonus on Loyalty checks until your next Event phase.

Total BP spent = 8; Total gained = 11 BP

Total BP = 19

City base value: 1200gp

Size: 3 (City x1; Farm x2)

Control DC: 23

Buildings:
Brothel: +1 Economy, +2 Loyalty; Unrest +1
Library: +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Monument: +3 Loyalty, -1 Unrest
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Tannery: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Tavern: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Theater: +2 Economy, +2 Stability Halves cost of Brothel, Park, and Tavern in same city
House (x3); -3 Unrest

Turn 9:

Size 3

Upkeep Phase:

Total BP = 19

1. Stability check: (DC 23) 1d20 + 16 ⇒ (12) + 16 = 28 (+1 BP)

2. Pay Consumption: (+2 Edicts; +1 city; +3 hex; -4 farm) = (+2 BP)

3. Unrest 0 (+1 Brothel, -3 House, -1 Royal Assassin, -1 Monument)

Improvement Phase:

4. Leadership: No changes

5. Claim Hexes: Plains (1 BP)

6. Improve City: None

7. Develop Hexes. Build road (1 BP); Establish Farms (2 BP)
(4 roads = +1 Economy)

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +23
(Buildings +9(Stable, Smith, Library, Shop, Theater(+2), Brothel, Tavern, Tannery), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2, Roads +1)

Loyalty: +19
(Buildings +8(Stable, Library, Brothel(+2), Tavern, Monument(+3)), Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +16
(Buildings +4(Smith, Theater(+2), Tannery), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 24 : 1d20 + 23 + 4 + 4 ⇒ (14) + 23 + 4 + 4 = 45 +9 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 48 (25% or less) None
Event: NA

Total BP spent = 6; Total gained = 10 BP

Total BP = 23

City base value: 1200gp

Size: 4 (City x1; Farm x3)

Control DC: 23

Buildings:
Brothel: +1 Economy, +2 Loyalty; Unrest +1
Library: +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Monument: +3 Loyalty, -1 Unrest
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Tannery: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Tavern: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Theater: +2 Economy, +2 Stability Halves cost of Brothel, Park, and Tavern in same city
House (x3); -3 Unrest

Turn 10:

Size 4

Upkeep Phase:

Total BP = 23

1. Stability check: (DC 24) 1d20 + 16 ⇒ (5) + 16 = 21 Nothing

2. Pay Consumption: (+2 Edicts; +1 city; +4 hex; -6 farm) = (+1 BP)

3. Unrest 0 (+1 Brothel, -3 House, -1 Royal Assassin, -1 Monument)

Improvement Phase:

4. Leadership: No changes

5. Claim Hexes: None

6. Improve City: Jail (14 BP)

7. Develop Hexes. None

8. Edicts:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

Economy: +23
(Buildings +9(Stable, Smith, Library, Shop, Theater(+2), Brothel, Tavern, Tannery), Edicts +2, Leadership +9, Alignment +2, Roads +1)

Loyalty: +21
(Buildings +8(Stable, Library, Brothel(+2), Tavern, Monument(+3), Jail(+2)) Edicts -2/+1, Leadership +10, Alignment +2,)

Stability: +18
(Buildings +4(Smith, Theater(+2), Tannery, Jail(+2)), Edicts +1, Leadership +11)

Income Phase:

11. Economy check: DC 24 : 1d20 + 23 + 4 + 4 ⇒ (1) + 23 + 4 + 4 = 32 0 BP

Event Phase:

1d100 ⇒ 48 (75% or less)
Event: 1d100 ⇒ 94
Visiting Celebrity: A celebrity from elsewhere on Golarion visits your kingdom, causing a sudden influx of visitors and spending. Increase the Treasury by 2d6 BP(each time you roll a 6, reroll that die and add its results to the total).
2d6 ⇒ (6, 1) = 7
1d6 ⇒ 1

Total BP spent = +15; Total gained = 8

Total BP = 16

City base value: 1200gp

Size: 4 (City x1; Farm x3)

Control DC: 24

Buildings:
Brothel: +1 Economy, +2 Loyalty; Unrest +1
Jail: +2 Loyalty, +2 Stability; Unrest -2
Library: +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Monument: +3 Loyalty, -1 Unrest
Stable: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Smith: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Tannery: +1 Economy, +1 Stability
Tavern: +500g City base value; +1 Economy, +1 Loyalty
Theater: +2 Economy, +2 Stability Halves cost of Brothel, Park, and Tavern in same city
House (x3); -3 Unrest

Here's stats after 10 turns

Size: 4

Economy: +23

Loyalty: +21

Stability: +18

Total BP after 10 turns = 15.

Alright. I think I got it right this time. Let me know what you people think. Remember, this is straight AP rules.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

You fellas ever play Civilization? I loved that game. I'm a HUGE micromanager.

And I told you I was insane. I love this kinda stuff. It was irritating not understanding it.

I'm gonna see if I can explain how this works for those of you who may not quite understand it. Bear with me.

Okay, first off, the Control DC is the key number you got to plan for. That number is real key.

You add however many hexes you have claimed(in my above example it would be 4) to 20.

So the Control DC = 24.

Economy
Loyalty
Stability

These are our "abilities". They work exactly like saving throws. But I call them abilities.

The beginning of the month, you first roll your Stability check. If you beat it, you gain 1 BP. As long as you don't fail by 5 or more, nothing happens. If you do fail by 5 or more, then you gain +2 Unrest.

There towards the end of the month, you make your Economy check. Here again, you have to beat the Control DC. If you beat it, you take the number you rolled(let' say 25) and divide by 5. You gain 5 BP. So you would like to build your Economy up as high as possible. It's dangerous to concentrate on one ability though. Usually you cost yourself somewhere else.

The only place that I know that Loyalty comes in, is during the Event phase. Which is the very last thing that comes into play.

DW decided to forego that early on because there are bad events that can cost us. It's like a Deck of Many Things. Only not near as bad(or good, for that matter).

Anyway, some of those bad events are continuous... meaning they happen every round until we make the Control DC roll or put a stop to it as pc's. Either way. That's why you would like to balance those three stats as best as possible. But sometimes you just have to gamble.

And the best way to improve all three is to build buildings. Now picture your city, okay. Pretend it has 9 squares within. Just 9 normal squares, alright.

Now, pretend each of those 9 squares contains 4 smaller squares within each of the 9. So now we have 36 squares. So you can build 36 bldgs within these squares. You won't do that because there are a few bldgs that take up 2 of the smaller squares by themselves. And a couple or three of the bldgs take up all 4. And those bldgs are awesome.

That's where you use your Build Points to build buildings. Nearly all of the buildings increase at least 2 abilities. There are probably 2 or 3 buildings that only benefit one of them. And there are equally as many that add to all 3. Those would be the most expensive ones bldgs.

Plus some bldgs add other type bonuses also. If you notice the theater I built and what it does. There are other bldgs that grant similar type bonuses.

So we build these bldgs, which increases our abilities, which helps us in beating the Control DC during a turn. That's really the gist of it. The main thing is, deciding what the heck to build.

So you can see if you keep claiming hexes, you increase your Control DC.

If you look at our kingdom now, our control DC is 30. (Size 10 due to 10 claimed hexes + 20) Our numbers are:

Economy: +15
Loyalty: +12
Stability: +14

Obviously we would be in a world of hurt if we were to have to make those rolls. You don't make your Economy roll, no money. You don't make Stability roll, no money and possible unrest. Just put the Ruler's/Spymaster's +4 in Eco/Sta, and you need to roll an 11 and 12 respectively. That's tough to do month after month. And I know DW's tweaked it to work differently; I'm just using it as an example for comparative purposes.

So you can see how it's possible to outgrow your production. Of course, on a personal level, I'm really conservative about such things. I tend to dance on the careful side of things which is a slower way to go growth wise. That may not be to anyone's liking. I even look back and think of what I could've done different. Different buildings I could've built. Etc., etc. But that's just my micromanging ways.

A couple other items:

Consumption. Going off of my above example, consumption is = to the number of claimed hexes(4(3 farms and 1 city) + however many cities you own(1(Frieland) + whatever you have your edicts set too - Farms. The beauty of farms is that it reduces your consumption by 2 per Farm.(6 in this case)

In my case, I have it set as:

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

So if you add them all together that's 7 BP. Now you take the 3 Farms(6 BP) that were built and subtract that from the 7 I got. So when you pay consumption, it's only 1 per turn. Pretty sweet, I think.

That's the one benefit of having more claimed hexes. You put enough farms out there you can get your Consumption down to 0(or even lower)

Now you can't have a negative consumption score, but if you were somewhere around -2 or -3 in total consumption, then you could possibly raise whichever edict you prefer. Which would offset the negative BP cost for consumption. But, of course, claiming more hexes puts it to where you start dancing with a higher Control DC. Catch-22 I guess.

If you look at the below examples, you can see that it costs a lot of BP when you raise a couple of these edicts too high. Maybe if your bringing in 50 or 60 BP's in every turn you can raise it high,(or have a bunch of farmland as I stated above) but for sure not at such an early stage, obviously.

Here are the edicts:

Promotion/ Stability Bonus/ Consumption Increase
Type
None: –1; CI 0
Token: +1; CI 1 BP
Standard: +2; CI 2 BP
Aggressive: +3; CI 4 BP
Expansionist: +4; CI 8 BP

Taxation Level/ Economy Bonus/ Loyalty Penalty
None: +0/ +1
Light: +1/ –1
Normal: +2/ –2
Heavy: +3/ –4
Overwhelming: +4/ –8

Festivals per Year/ Loyalty Bonus/ Consumption Increase
None –1 —
1: +1/ 1 BP
6: +2/ 2 BP
12: +3/ 4 BP
24: +4/ 8 BP

And you have the option to change these every month. They're not stationary unless you want them to be.

Anyway, I hope this helps. You fellas curious about what I've done here, ask away, I'll try to explain it as best I can(Hopefully I'll be able to help). Heck, tell me what you don't like about it, what you'd do different, whatever the case and let's try something different. I got no problem with that. I'll take whatever critisicm you cats wanna throw at me. It's all good. I prefer your opinion's on the subject. Honestly.

I'm still getting the hang of it, myself.

Osirion

Some dude

I noticed that the Edicts seem totally off-kilter. The Promotions and Festivals cost BP, each of which represents a -5 to the Economy roll. The Taxation only grants +1 to +4 to the Economy roll, meaning that the more Taxation you choose, the faster your kingdom sinks into the swamp. Since your fantasy economy works *better* with zero revenue, it's best to avoid Taxation altogether.

Since, at the outset, we weren't making Stability or Loyalty rolls, there was no reason to take the other Edicts anyway.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

I don't understand what you mean by the Promotions and Festivals represent a -5 to the Economy roll.

As far as Taxation goes, it's true you could probably just avoid it entirely, but using it at the "Normal" level didn't seem to be an issue.

That's also true about the Stability and Loyalty rolls. But what I threw out there was the possibility of what might have happened had we used AP rules straight up. I think it worked out fairly well.

The previous 4 turns I threw out there, plus the 3 I lost, I rolled far worse and I still feel it turned out alright. It was manageable. Even though most of it was done incorrectly due to my lack of knowledge. And with those 4, I went with Promotion Standard and Festivals 6. That felt like too much for early on. So on those following 10, I stuck with these...

Promotion: Token, +1 Stability; 1 BP
Taxation: Normal, +2 Economy, -2 Loyalty.
Festivals: 1, +1 loyalty, 1 BP.

...the whole way.

But like I said above, I think you can raise those up, given time and the right circumstances. But I see what you mean in setting it to 0. It's not a massive bonus to Economy by any means. It basically comes down to whether or not you want a +1 or 2 extra--or whichever you decide to go with--on your rolls. More of a personal preference it would seem.

Osirion

Some dude
Javell DeLeon wrote:
I don't understand what you mean by the Promotions and Festivals represent a -5 to the Economy roll.

Every five points on an Economy roll represents +1 BP.

To 'buy' a +1 to Stability or Loyalty therefore 'costs' a -5 to Economy.

That throws pretty much the entire Edict subsystem into imbalance.

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