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Kingmaker (Inactive)

Game Master Dreaming Warforged

Bold and just adventurers exploring and settling the Stolen Lands.
Now at the beginning of vol. 4 - Blood for Blood


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Storyteller of the Greenbelt
Javell DeLeon wrote:

+1 Mithral Chain Shirt; 2100g

Mwk Greataxe improved to +1 Greataxe; 2000g

Leaves me with 11g and 5s

Let me know if this is cool.

It's cool, but let me see if i can come up with a way to say yes to your adamantine greataxe.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Kingdom Building - First Steps

Improvement Phase
1. Select Leadership: done (see profile).

2.Claim hexes: to claim a hex, you must explore it and rid it of monsters or hazards; claimed hex must be adjacent to a kingdom hex; costs 1 BP to claim and augments consumption. One hex at a time (one per month).

3. Establish and improve cities: prepare land for city districts, buy buildings, etc. I'm not sure how to do that one in PbP.

4. Build roads: 1 BP per hex, 2 in forest, 4 in swamps and mountains, bridge-building doubles the cost.

5. Establish farmlands: any grassland (2 BP) or hill (4 BP) kingdom hex that contains a road. Reduces Consumption by 2 BP.

6. Edicts: Pick or adjust the Edicts levels.

More later... For now, you will first establish the first hex. It already has a road.

We'll start the development after the emissary has come, but we can start the discussion now, as I present some of the rules.

From then on, we'll work on the kingdom for 12 months, then move back to adventure and development, once we feel the kingdom is stable.

Every month will have four phases: Upkeep, Improvement, Income and Event. The first three require some decisions and rolls. Do you want to share responsibilities for those? How?

Upkeep
1. Determine Kingdom Stability (roll)
2. Pay Consumption
3. Unrest

Improvement:
1. Select Leadership (decision)
2. Claim hexes (decision)
3. Establish and improve cities (decisions)
4. Build roads (decision)
5. Establish Farmlands (decision)
6. Edicts (decision)

Income
1. Deposits (decision)
2. Withdrawals (decision)
3. Sell Valuable Items (decision)
4. Generate income (roll)

Event (randomly generated)

We can have different persons responsible for certain decisions, or rotate every month or a mix?

Thoughts?


Male Half-orc Inquisitor/6th, AC 21, 55/55 hp

Have we selected where we'd start building our kingdom? If we have decided, where?


Everyone: we just need to nail down three things: nation name, capital name and capital placement. I’m suggesting Hartland, Providence and Oleg’s Outpost fort the three.

Since we have enough NPC allies to flush out the key roles, I think the leadership selection will be static unless special circumstances arise.

I like the idea of rotating each month letting a player run the development of the nation. We could just go down a rotation list, and if someone doesn’t want to take a turn (or RL makes it tough), then can just post “Pass” and the next person on the list can take the turn.


Male Half-orc Inquisitor/6th, AC 21, 55/55 hp
markofbane wrote:

Everyone: we just need to nail down three things: nation name, capital name and capital placement. I’m suggesting Hartland, Providence and Oleg’s Outpost fort the three.

Since we have enough NPC allies to flush out the key roles, I think the leadership selection will be static unless special circumstances arise.

I like the idea of rotating each month letting a player run the development of the nation. We could just go down a rotation list, and if someone doesn’t want to take a turn (or RL makes it tough), then can just post “Pass” and the next person on the list can take the turn.

DM:

Going to tell people what places will give us bonuses for setting up a capital in certain locations as described in the second part? I ask as I don't want to reveal it to everyone if you perfer them to have to check out each area closely.

Why not check out which place would be best to set up the heartland. Afterall, what are the places we can set up at besides Oleg's?


Storyteller of the Greenbelt
Davor Mason wrote:
markofbane wrote:

Everyone: we just need to nail down three things: nation name, capital name and capital placement. I’m suggesting Hartland, Providence and Oleg’s Outpost fort the three.

Since we have enough NPC allies to flush out the key roles, I think the leadership selection will be static unless special circumstances arise.

I like the idea of rotating each month letting a player run the development of the nation. We could just go down a rotation list, and if someone doesn’t want to take a turn (or RL makes it tough), then can just post “Pass” and the next person on the list can take the turn.

** spoiler omitted **

Why not check out which place would be best to set up the heartland. Afterall, what are the places we can set up at besides Oleg's?

Davor:
Interesting thoughts. I was hoping to move away from metagaming, which is why, for example, I didn't explain all the rules before the initial set up of the kingdom's leadership and alignment.

If you look at the past posts, Set had explained the advantages of the Stag Lord's fort, but didn't get much traction. It could be interesting to have the new guy ask a few 'dumb' questions and make a name for himself, as well as provide important info to the group as his questions trigger new information.

I'll regardless provide a list of possibles in answer to your message.

The Greenbelt

Possible places would be:
-Oleg's
-Stag Lord's Fort
-Temple
-Bokken's hut
-Adam's Orchard

Anywhere else is also possible, but you would have to get the land ready, which would take some time. Each place presents advantages or inconveniences that would also impact the crunch.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Personally, I think I like Frieland better. Hartland's okay, but, I don't know, I don't like it near as much as Frieland. Plus it looks German. And that's just cool.

I like Providence. That works for me. Heck, it works for Rhode Island, it works for me. ;)

Oleg's outpost as capital placement; is also quite the cool place. Think about it: An small, itty bitty outpost, turns into this HUGE METROPOLIS over a span of....ohh, I don't know... a year of two? :) That's just cool too. BUT, it really doesn't matter to me where we put the capital, I just think that's kinda cool.


Male Half-orc Inquisitor/6th, AC 21, 55/55 hp
Javell DeLeon wrote:

Personally, I think I like Frieland better. Hartland's okay, but, I don't know, I don't like it near as much as Frieland. Plus it looks German. And that's just cool.

I like Providence. That works for me. Heck, it works for Rhode Island, it works for me. ;)

Oleg's outpost as capital placement; is also quite the cool place. Think about it: An small, itty bitty outpost, turns into this HUGE METROPOLIS over a span of....ohh, I don't know... a year of two? :) That's just cool too. BUT, it really doesn't matter to me where we put the capital, I just think that's kinda cool.

Building on the Stag Lord's fort would be a interesting thought. Building on the bones of your enemies somewhat. I believe Set said about the advantages of building up there?


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Davor Mason wrote:


Building on the Stag Lord's fort would be a interesting thought. Building on the bones of your enemies somewhat. I believe Set said about the advantages of building up there?

That would be cool. I like the idea of turning a once thought evil place into a beacon of non-evil awesomeness. Can't go wrong there either.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

We seem to have two options: Oleg's or the Stag Lord's.

Capital's name is Providence, that seems set.

Kingdom's name is also questioned. PbP makes it harder to resolve... I would suggest that the ruler of the kingdom has final say, but only once his 'subjects' have had a chance to express their opinion.

So my suggestion out of this is: each player makes his sentiment clear, the Kalsgrim will rule.

If you agree, post your opinion!


Male Half-orc Inquisitor/6th, AC 21, 55/55 hp

Got no opinion eitherway. Kalsgrim sounds good if everyone goes with that. I'll go with whoever everything thinks is the best.


AC 24 (25) HP 30/30 AP 8/8

I agree. The names are not really a big deal to me...nor is the location at this time.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Not to derail the conversation, but I've added kingdom building info on my profile. Best to read soon and ask questions, as it can get overwhelming in one gulp. I've opted to use DM Barcas' take on the rule. His description of steps makes it simpler for the player responsible for the turn/roll.

Osirion

Some dude
Other Mastermind wrote:
Not to derail the conversation, but I've added kingdom building info on my profile. Best to read soon and ask questions, as it can get overwhelming in one gulp. I've opted to use DM Barcas' take on the rule. His description of steps makes it simpler for the player responsible for the turn/roll.

Wow, that's an info-dump.

It looks like claiming hexes and putting farms on them is a priority, followed by building stuff like Mills or whatever.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Yes indeed, but the important part is at first to follow the steps to complete a turn (first turn starts at step 5). If you follow it, you build complexity slowly.

If you choose Oleg's or the Stag Lord's, you won't have to prepare the land to build the city, plus, depending on your choice, you'll get certain advantages (an obvious one is that Oleg's has a road.

But, back to the consultation of Council!


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Regarding Adamantine weapons, I would allow them, but with the following changes:

-They can ignore hardness up to 10, then reduce hardness between 11 and 20 by ten.

-Mowing through structures is hazardous if not done properly or with the right knowledge.

-I would enforce PRD rule for Ineffective Weapons: Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.

Kriger and others, let me know if you think that sounds ok.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Other Mastermind wrote:

Regarding Adamantine weapons, I would allow them, but with the following changes:

-They can ignore hardness up to 10, then reduce hardness between 11 and 20 by ten.

-Mowing through structures is hazardous if not done properly or with the right knowledge.

-I would enforce PRD rule for Ineffective Weapons: Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.

Kriger and others, let me know if you think that sounds ok.

That sounds cool. Truthfully, the only reason I like adamantine, is because it makes MY weapon harder to destroy. I know it's not impossible to destroy it, just makes it a bit more difficult.

So in that regard, I'm curious: The hardness of an adamantine weapon itself(for breaking purposes)won't change right?

There is no way I use it as a digging tool anyhow. I honestly don't understand why you would do that in the first place.

I've always wanted to sunder weapons, but then I think, "But what if it's a cool weapon?", or, "We could sell that for profit." So, I never have. Metagaming patheticness, I know. At least it's not gamebreaking. Unless, of course, that mindset gets us all killed. Ah well, it is what it is. :)

Speaking of: Have any of you ever used Improved Sunder to destroy weapons?


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Providence for the capital. I think I'm gonna go with Oleg's. Mainly because I think it would be cool for Oleg. And Oleg has been awesome to us as a group.

I like Frieland better than Hartland.

I finally remembered what Hartland reminded me of...This It's just too Texas for me. :)

That's it. I can't remember if there were other questions but that's what I got so far.


Okay, so Frieland and Oleg's. I think Oleg's might be better for developing farms adjacent to it, which we'll need for growth.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

The Baron has spoken. Long live the new Frieland!

After the emissary leaves, we'll be dealing with the kingdom building. Kalsgrim will post the first month and make the appropriate rolls, then I'll update the map, etc.


Happy to be here

There are new options to have a campaign site on the boards.

I would have to create new threads for them to recognize me as DM. That means putting the game in my name instead of Scipion's...

Thoughts?


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Personally, I would prefer the new thread. And I think you should put the game in your name. When Scipion's trouble arose, you were the one willing to take this game over to keep it going. So, the way I see it, this is your game bro.


AC 24 (25) HP 30/30 AP 8/8

I agree with Javell. Nothing against Scipion...but it's your baby for now.

Also I'll be travelling the next week and a half. Should be able to post about every day, but mostly later in the evenings, so don't let me hold things up. If you need to DMPC character feel free to do so to move things along.


Master of Procrastination and Grognardia
Javell DeLeon wrote:

Personally, I would prefer the new thread. And I think you should put the game in your name. When Scipion's trouble arose, you were the one willing to take this game over to keep it going. So, the way I see it, this is your game bro.

I third this. I totally agree with Javell and I wasn't with the group from the start so I can't honestly make up the decision, but if you had taken over and it is meant to be yours now so I suggest putting your name on it as your own thread. It's certainly streamlined my tabs this way.


Yeah, I would agree. You've been the glue, and I would certainly be good with it.

Osirion

Some dude

As long as we crosslink*, I'm good with a new campaign thread.

*Linking to the old thread in the beginning of the new thread, and to the new thread at the end of the old thread. I often find it useful to search back to find an item or an NPC name or whether or not I used a charge from X wand in Y encounter or whatever, and I like to keep it easy to find the old threads, for datamining.


Happy to be here

Thanks for the support. Paizo has made it possible to claim another's thread though, and I will explore this option first.


Happy to be here

They did it fast! The campaign should now appear.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

We'll be ready for the kingdom building of the first twelve months after you've answered to Jamandi.

The new map of Frieland is in my profile.

Starting at Oleg's give you a free road, the land is ready to start building a city, and Oleg counts as either a Shop, a Watchtower or a Stable (Kals' choice).

Congrats!


Let's go with a stable for Oleg's place.


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

Feel free to discuss and give feedback on the kingdom building part. This is new to all of us.


AC 24 (25) HP 30/30 AP 8/8

To be honest it's all greek to me at the moment. I've got to get the book out and read the Kingdom making rules I guess :-).


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

I'd say the first step is to simply follow the turn sequence in my profile. There are two rolls to make for the kingdom, choosing an adjacent hex to claim, decide to build roads and farms (a good idea in the first months). Where it gets tricky is when you want to set up a new city district or build a new city, but we're not there yet. Also, you have to choose buildings. Often, it means a housing area, and another building(because you have a mill in Providence, you get too build more every turn). The list is long (it has churches and temples I think...), but you can submit suggestions here and have 'council' look at it for consultation.


And from a roleplaying perspective, Kalsgrim will be leaning heavily on the others for advice, taking their opinions very seriously. So run your turn like you are running the kingdom, and it will represent your PCs influence. If Janku thinks we need a vast catherdral early on, go for it!

Osirion

Some dude

We are blowing through BP like candy on Halloween, so more farms and revenue generating places (like fisheries, when we get near water hexes) should be a priority, in addition to houses.

I can't find any indication that roads do anything, so perhaps that's something we shouldn't pay for until we are more secure, financially?

.

On the 'vast cathedral' front, can buildings be upgraded, from, say, Shrine to Temple to Cathedral?


Storyteller of the Greenbelt
Set wrote:

We are blowing through BP like candy on Halloween, so more farms and revenue generating places (like fisheries, when we get near water hexes) should be a priority, in addition to houses.

Or better rolls for Economy... ;-p


Storyteller of the Greenbelt
Set wrote:

I can't find any indication that roads do anything, so perhaps that's something we shouldn't pay for until we are more secure, financially?

Don't have my notes with me, but I think it's either -1 to consumption ot +1 to Economy rolls per four hexes for small kingdoms.

Plus you'll move faster through those hexes!


Storyteller of the Greenbelt
Set wrote:

On the 'vast cathedral' front, can buildings be upgraded, from, say, Shrine to Temple to Cathedral?

As long as you leave some space for it in your district (which has 36 squares).

Osirion

Some dude
Other Mastermind wrote:
Set wrote:

I can't find any indication that roads do anything, so perhaps that's something we shouldn't pay for until we are more secure, financially?

Don't have my notes with me, but I think it's either -1 to consumption ot +1 to Economy rolls per four hexes for small kingdoms.

Plus you'll move faster through those hexes!

Ooh, that's goood then. Anything to save money / generate revenue!

I build toll stations! :)

Other Mastermind wrote:
Set wrote:

We are blowing through BP like candy on Halloween, so more farms and revenue generating places (like fisheries, when we get near water hexes) should be a priority, in addition to houses.

Or better rolls for Economy... ;-p

Well, yeah, +17 to the roll, DC 21, that's like, I dunno, 50/50 chance of success for me? :)


Storyteller of the Greenbelt

If you keep rolling your d20 like d6, for sure!


AC 24 (25) HP 30/30 AP 8/8

I am definitively interested in the Kingdom building phases, just really am too busy right now to settle down, and truly understand what's happening. I'll watch for a while, and when I'm comfortable with what we're doing I'll join in the fun. I'm starting to get it a little bit from seeing it in action.

Janku will be pushing for a Shrine ASAP. As his goddess is a minor deity, the idea of a new land with her worship playing a major part is enticing to him.


Happy to be here

FYI, I'm recruiting fo a Jade Regent PbP.


Thanks for the heads up on the Jade Regent campaign. I'll take a look at the player's guide and pop into the recruitment thread later on.


Happy to be here

Scranford and Set: You both have submitted a druid...


Male Daytona 500 DM / 12
Dreaming Warforged wrote:
Scranford and Set: You both have submitted a druid...

Thanks for the heads up. I'll mine my imagination for something else fun. I'm thinking of staying with the Ulfen race, but I'll come up with something else...Maybe a Skald, or just a big dumb warrior with a twist.

Osirion

Some dude
Dreaming Warforged wrote:
Scranford and Set: You both have submitted a druid...

I've also got that Witch idea, I just haven't had time to flesh him out yet.

Desna-Cleric headed for Harrower would be my third choice, but I haven't even *thought* about that yet...


Male Daytona 500 DM / 12

I went ahead and made a cool wizard...so stay with your first choice :-)

Osirion

Some dude
scranford wrote:
I went ahead and made a cool wizard...so stay with your first choice :-)

Cool! I'm pretty flexible, so if you decide that you want the druid more, just holler. I like the Druid, characterwise, but the Witch or Cleric/Harrower also intrigue me.

I used to annoy tabletop GMs by getting bored and changing characters every now and then... I want to play one of everything!


And I am looking at a cleric, either of Desna or Milani, I think. I'm hoping I'll have something together in the next day or so to post in the recruitment thread.

Osirion

Some dude

Random thoughts on the kingdom-building.

The kingdom-building rules are, in theory, balanced for a four man group of PCs with 20 point-buy, stuck with NPCs like Oleg and Svetlana, with 12s and 14s in their Leadership stats (+1 or +2, max) filling all but four of the Leadership roles.

We've got really good stats (most of us have a +4 in a Leadership stat), five PCs, *and* a larger than normal pool of retired adventurers (Garrick, Ox, Corso, Tuck and Lukasz) with higher than average Leadership stats, so, we *should* be doing significantly better than the system would expect. Like, 25-50% better.

I had this whacky notion, starting out, that we could get ahead of the curve, with all the advantages we had, and pay back the 50 BP initial investment made by Restov, to sort of get out from under their thumb, and help secure our independence (in addition to buying some non Economy related, but thematically appropriate, stuff like Shrines to Milani and Erastil). Yeah. So much for that plan!

I read something about selling magic items for BP, and I think maybe our best bet is to take a bunch of Crafting feats and make stuff to sell, to support our kingdom! :)

Seriously, 'though, it might make sense to freeze expansions of the kingdom for six months or so. No new hex claimage. No new buildings. Just try and accumulate some money, so that we can buy something that costs more than 6 BP, rather than keep riding the raggedy edge of bankruptcy.

Maybe the problem is that I'm expanding us too fast, and we were supposed to take a couple of years to get up to six hexes.

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