Tanith 'Kordson' Creed |
Sounds good. Just remember Carina can't be more than 40 feet from Tanith.
DankeSean RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 |
I'm not sure who made the current marching order but since Carina is sorta squishy I am gonna rearrange it a bit. New order: Farrukh, Tanith, Astraden (darkvision), Eben, Carina (darkvision), Rodrigo?
I don't think that was so much a marching order as 'random placement of icons when KC set the map up', so yes, go right on ahead and do that. Feel free to move Eben in front of Astraden, too, if you'd prefer.
Carina Viera |
Sorry I haven't posted recently. I'm on the bus right now; I will post when I can.
Gark the Goblin |
Gark the Goblin wrote:I'm not sure who made the current marching order but since Carina is sorta squishy I am gonna rearrange it a bit. New order: Farrukh, Tanith, Astraden (darkvision), Eben, Carina (darkvision), Rodrigo?I don't think that was so much a marching order as 'random placement of icons when KC set the map up', so yes, go right on ahead and do that. Feel free to move Eben in front of Astraden, too, if you'd prefer.
I figured we might want someone with darkvision up front. Otherwise, the spot's all yours.
The only reason I encourage Farrukh to stay away from Rodrigo is that anything he attacks in the radius gets the AC bonus.
Kobold Catgirl |
So, on the subject of initiative—I agree. Group initiative has some real balance issues, and the problem is simply that your enemies don't need as rounded a party as you guys do. They suffer way less from the averaging as a result (and since monsters tend to have Improved Initiative, that's a big problem). It will only get worse as you get higher level.
That said, ordinary initiative still carries the drawback of majorly slowing things down. And while "roll 'em, post 'em, and order them out afterwards" is a decent compromise, it does sometimes lead to confusion thanks to out-of-order posting.
So here's my suggestion: We make some rules modifications.
First, any effect that gives a single character a bonus to initiative instead gives half its bonus to the block initiative.
Second, we enable Action Points for initiative. Put simply, any one PC can choose to spend an Action Point to add +1d6 to the roll. This could lead to some real delays, though, so I'm thinking one PC would be assigned as a "pointsmaster" to decide if the expenditure would be made. Unless the players establish otherwise, this deciding player would by default be the PC with the highest initiative bonus. That saves us from having to wait for everyone to confirm they don't want to spend an AP before the fight can start.
Tanith 'Kordson' Creed |
That said, ordinary initiative still carries the drawback of majorly slowing things down. And while "roll 'em, post 'em, and order them out afterwards" is a decent compromise, it does sometimes lead to confusion thanks to out-of-order posting.
I'm game for whatever you think makes the most sense but I prefer this. This is what we've been using in SD and it works the majority of the time without invalidating individuals investing in going first.
DankeSean RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 |
DM Jelani |
I do averages and haven't had any major issues. Here's how I do it...
All the PCs roll, add their totals and divide by number of PCs, that's the party's block.
All monsters with identical stats roll, add together, divide by number of those monsters. That's their block.
Each kind of monster gets a block.
Not sure if that's different from what you've been doing at all.
Gark the Goblin |
In this game, it's almost always just two blocks, and the bonuses are averaged before rolling. This leads to more variance in our block's final score than averaging after rolling.
I would support something like what Jelani is proposing, but perhaps without separate blocks for each monster type. Reallyyy don't like the confusion that comes with "post when you can and we sort it out at the end of the round." It would especially suck for people like Jelani and DankeSean and I, since we frequently have long periods where we're not available to check - if we roll low, but are available right when the new round goes up, then we have to post without any clue what everyone else is doing before us. Plus (in the one game I played using this method, at least) it seems like half of all combats end with three people posting how much damage they deal to the monster, and how many status effects they apply to it, only to be invalidated by the one person who goes before them and knocks the monster out cold. Shit's disappointing.
Carina Viera |
Me, I just bite the bullet and roll initiatives for each PC. If there's different groups of monsters (for example, two goblins & two orcs) then I'll roll initiatives for two monster groups and have them go in the order they rolled.
And if the monsters all go before/after the PCs, then the PCs take their actions in the order they post in.
Rynjin |
On second thought, I kinda like what Jelani's proposing as well. It allows everyone's Initiative modifier to matter, without some people expressly dragging down the average, or others with high Init mods being invalidated.
So instead of 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (12) + 2 = 14 vs 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (11) + 5 = 16 essentially meaning we go last on every average combat.
We have:
6d20 ⇒ (14, 18, 19, 2, 11, 18) = 82 +0, +2, +2, +3, +3, +2 I think is the mods? vs 3d20 ⇒ (8, 3, 14) = 25 +5 all or result 15 vs result 13?
A bit more work for KC and it only really evens it out a little bit though.
Kobold Catgirl |
Honestly, I would rather keep what we're doing (and perhaps adjust for the imbalance) than switch to a style that slows the PbP down. Alternatively, I'm not a huge fan of reordering after the fact, but it may be the best alternative.
DankeSean, only initiative-specific abilities would be affected. It'd be solely to bail out abilities like Favored Terrain or traits like Reactionary.
Kobold Catgirl |
It could be capped at the highest initiative bonus. So, if everyone got II, and Astraden had the highest at a +8, the highest your collaborated bonus could get would be +8. I don't think people would actually try that, though. It's not tidy enough for PFS, but it could work for a homegame to make the feat somewhat relevant again. :P
If we do switch to the "sort them out after" style, it will obviously begin after the conclusion of this adventure.
Carina Viera |
I've got a question:
Would I be able to salvage an enemy alchemist's bombs to replenish my own supply?
Carina Viera |
If the gaze attack functions like a Charm Person, does that mean Carina still needs to make a save? Charm Person affects humanoid creatures, and Carina's a native outsider...
I'm willing to make the roll. I'd just like to clarify this before I do.
Kobold Catgirl |
I've heard word that native outsiders are immune to humanoid-based effects like Charm Person (and we'll tackle that when we come to it).
And now the time has come, it seems.
I'm not inclined to let native outsiders get this benefit, regardless of RAW. I think it's too much, especially considering that planetouched in particular are mostly humanoid. Plus, if it were intended, it would mean that immunity to an enormous number of effects is equivalent to 1 RP on the Race Builder.
I don't know. I personally find it unpalatable, and I have ever since I first heard about it.
Astraden Limhaare |
I put a proposed marching order on the map. The archons and Tanith can maintain elevation directly above peoples' heads:
ArT ArAr
F AsE C R
(Ar=lantern archon, T=Tanith, F=Farrukh, As=Astraden, E=Eben, C=Carina, R=Rodrigo.)
Obviously we wouldn't actually have Eben standing in the middle of the stream.
If the archons could drop aid on each of us that would definitely be good.
Tanith 'Kordson' Creed |
I'm not sure if Rodrigo missed my request or just ignored it. =P
DM Jelani |
I'm not sure if Rodrigo missed my request or just ignored it. =P
No idea what you're talking about. Honestly I've been having a tough time maintaining the pace you guys keep recently. When I sit down to update/read 12-15 games and this one has 20-30 new posts waiting a lot of them end up getting skimmed.
Tanith 'Kordson' Creed |
I know the timezone thing is rough. Sorry if it felt like I was poking fun at you. =(
I posted OOC here.
DankeSean RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32, 2011 Top 4 |
Tanith (or, rather, a disembodied voice speaking up somewhere behind Tanith) had inquired earlier about getting some aid spells laid down on the group while the lanterns were still around.
On another note, can we give Astraden a credit or something on the loot sheet to reflect her sacrificing her dagger?
Tanith 'Kordson' Creed |
Yeah, we'll split the cost on the next payout. Was it just a +1 dagger?
Astraden Limhaare |
Just +1 yeah.
DM Jelani |
I know the timezone thing is rough. Sorry if it felt like I was poking fun at you. =(
I posted OOC here.
Aid would be worthless to anyone under a heroism. However, I guess since they can cast it at will the THP make it worthwhile. Everyone gets 1d8+3 temporary HP and +1 moral bonus to hit and saves versus fear.
Tanith 'Kordson' Creed |
The attack bonus is just a bonus. I've always considered the temps the best part of the 'lantern army' strategy.
Kobold Catgirl |
So, when people are capable of seeing in magical darkness but not normal darkness, a darkness spell has been cast on an already dark area, and dancing lights is the only source of light, what happens?
One answer: The dancing lights sheds light only those with ebon eyes can see, allowing them proper vision.
Other answer: Those with ebon eyes can see through the darkness, but not the darkness, and the dancing lights are still suppressed, so everything is terrible.
I'll probably go with Option A, just because ebon eyes is a fairly one-note spell to begin with.
Tanith 'Kordson' Creed |
The dancing lights is suppressed and ebon eyes kicks in.