Sorry about disappearing. Train wreck work projects took over my weekend. I'll do my best to put up a post today, but it might not be until after lunch.
No problem, I understand work issues as the last few weeks have been killer for me as well.
I prefer the level 2 start to level 3. Not sure why, I just do.
I will always go with more levels. But my opinion is heavily biased since I play a caster.
I have a request for another area of rules: Carrying capacity. How many items can I cling to my belt? Do I have to carry my spellbook into the arena? Do I need a scroll case to carry scrolls? Can I fight naked?
I'm probably the first to ask because Kirk dumped str so much every pound counts :)
Another thought: Maybe someone is willing to maintain a sheet displaying some info about each gladiator. It could lift some work off Jehova. Good points to maintain could be:
Current status (active/suspended)
Level
Victory stats
Money permanently lost to consumables
Heh, actually Spock, Syken's encumbrance is a bit touchy as well. I at least assume that the spellbook (or formula book) is not included, since it only needs to be accessible while preparing spells (or extracts). But I could be wrong.
Level 2 or 3... don't matter none to me.
Have you reached a verdict on which level we'll be starting on yet, Jehova? :p
Also, out of curiosity, what's the lowest AC someone who's so far won has had? Mine is pretty bad, but my options will start to grow once I get past about level 6.
Also, if you're worried about noobs advancing, perhaps your gained VP's could work in two ways.
1. They advance you like you already have in place.
2. Whenever you lose/die, you expend a VP to respawn. Once a character is out of all VP's, that character is permanently dead.
Option number 2 actually makes it so that only the best go through, and only the best survive. :p
I guess so, but would you really want to keep making or editing a new Alias after losing every time? I wouldn't want to.
Some rules could be laid down where new characters from players who have had their characters killed have to return to play under a different class I guess, but then Jehova wouldn't want to chase people away from the game.
There is no pleasing everyone, but there is a pleasing the majority, so whatever works and is preferred I guess. :)
Hence why a Generic Character Agnostic Alias is recommended.
Hence why a Generic Character Agnostic Alias is recommended.
*nods sagely*
Has a starting level been decided on yet?
That's what I'd like to know. :p
I'm currently statted out to level 2.
I'm looking forward to joining this!
I guess so, but would you really want to keep making or editing a new Alias after losing every time? I wouldn't want to.
Some rules could be laid down where new characters from players who have had their characters killed have to return to play under a different class I guess, but then Jehova wouldn't want to chase people away from the game.
There is no pleasing everyone, but there is a pleasing the majority, so whatever works and is preferred I guess. :)
The problem with this is that it ultimately excludes people. I don't know about you, but it takes me a long time to make a character. If I lose my first fight to a lucky critical, I'm not going to say: "Oh well, I'll just make a new guy". I'd just stop playing.
Plus, your way makes it so there are very few higher level guys. The top dog could be sitting around for a long time waiting for someone to advance to his level.
I guess I just see all negatives and no upside to permanent character deaths.
I like the VP gain/loss for wins and losses. It makes losses matter, but not to the point where you have to scrap your character after one fight.
Is this a limitation of free actions in general? The two per turn part that is.
I think he just meant more than one. I can't imagine there is a limitation to the amount of free actions available... well, within reason. Trying to spout off the Constitution of the United States within one turn is probably stretching things a bit.
That's a tactic I haven't tried! Bore Rolg to death! I'll start reading from a textbook in a class about paint and it's many drying speeds!
I didn't think there was a limitation to free actions (besides the reasonable part of it). Primarily I'm thinking of full attacks for weapons requiring ammo, by they bows, crossbows, or firearms, which from what I understood, let you make all of your attacks as long as reloading or grabbing the ammo was a free action.
Just wanted to double check :P (in case I ever start playing around with Aros in here again, and get him to high levels.)
Certainly not a restriction on free actions, just letting you know you're not restricted to one per turn. To use an example from another fight, Elmer dropped a weapon, (free action), put two hands on a scimitar (free action), then took his hand off of the scimitar after attacking (free action) and used a weapon cord to reacquire the dropped weapon (swift action). Elmer has six arms, and it would be legal to do this with each set of three in a single turn.
Haha, your original typo Jehova. Must have been some good arms! XD
Pretty sure him attacking with each one in a round would be insta-death for a few of us. :p
>.<;; I was hoping nobody saw that. I read back through it and snorted loudly. And indeed, that happened to poor Kirk.
With no limitation on what you can enter as, I suppose a six armed character is fine lol.
I won't be winning against it, put it that way. Multi-weapon fighting is so much better than TWF, which is why it's limited to monster classes only. Though, if he uses TWF instead, he can still only get two attacks off. :p
Are you any closer to releasing the awesome live arena yet btw? I'm raring to go, haha.
MWF isn't limited to monsters, it merely requires enough limbs to make use of it.
>.<;; I was hoping nobody saw that. I read back through it and snorted loudly. And indeed, that happened to poor Kirk.
It's a good thing that it did happen, next time I will avoid it at the cost of an AoO :)=
Hmm. :p
9 attacks though! I could understand 7 (6 arms, 6 swords and 1 mouth to bite with), but as he made his attacks against Kirk with all arms already, surely dropping two swords shouldn't allow for him to make another 2 claw attacks with those same two hands within the same round?
Such a broken character lol. Possibly rhe most powerful broken level 2 or whatever character around. I want to see Elmer and Rolg fight. ;)
I mean broken might not be the right word.. optimized, and thats what its all about.
With the attacks their are so many options that might have given the extra claw attacks
Well, I'm in the minority then. I believe in optimising as much as possible, but am bored with choosing the best of everything from the start, because it gets tiring ending up with the same kind of characters, with the same high crit weapons, best traits and best armour imaginable.
My guy's a Gladiator and like real life Gladiators, uses what he sees around him, along with his own tactics and abilities to try and win a fight.
Still, luck plays a heavy part and a lot of things I do will no doubt have to be governed by Jehova/Arbiter. Anyway, it'll be fun.
...surely dropping two swords shouldn't allow for him to make another 2 claw attacks with those same two hands within the same round?
This is true, to the best of my knowledge. I think once you've made an attack with a weapon in one limb, it basically precludes you from using it for another, even if you drop the weapon afterwards. I could be wrong on that though.
I believe in optimising as much as possible, but am bored with choosing the best of everything from the start, because it gets tiring ending up with the same kind of characters, with the same high crit weapons, best traits and best armour imaginable.
Well, equipment aside, it certainly doesn't seem like people are gravitating towards the same builds.
We've got cavaliers who splat people, monks with mega defense, synths with a thousand arms (which is quite neat, I would not have thought of that one), wizards who knock people out with spells, and plenty more. Definitely feels diverse to me :P
Haha, well yea but I meant kind of more towards each class individually, not to what we have in the arena so far, because you can only vary specific classes so much. :p
Optimised ground melee combat Barbarians won't vary too much from other optimised ground melee combat barbarians, and optimised Cavaliers won't vary too much from other optimised cavaliers, though that's through my experiences of playing.
I have a second character who's pretty far out there, but I won't be using him for a while.
P.s. Choon, I like Bruno oddly, regardless of the fact I never play Dwarves as they're just not my kind of character. Your Dwarf has a lot of character. :p
I don't know whether to kill him first, or that disgusting camel he rides, but needless to say, I won't let you win every game against me, no matter how awesome your camel and Dwarf are!
I wouldn't say he is broken, you can avoid a full attack routine and his attack bonus probably isn't that high. I think I made a mistake.
@Jehova: Did you see my post about carrying capacity? Just wanted to ask because it might have gotten lost.
Well you could always do this:
1. He moves towards you and gets one attack off.
2. You get one attack off and use acrobatics to roll away from him (hopefully avoiding the AoO).
3. He moves towards you and gets one attack off.
4. Get one attack off and roll away.
Rinse and repeat until we have a winner.
Of course there are a few other things you can do if you're only melee based, but that's the gist of things.
Yah, just read that Kirk/Elmer fight... tough breaks Sp0ck. Any one of those saves fail and that's a different story.
And yep, it'll be interesting to see how that build holds up against different combatants. Elmer should prove a particularly interesting opponent for someone like Aurum... like fightin' a damn centipede.
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... with scimitars.
To be clear on Elmer's attacks, the claw attacks are with his feet, not the limbs holding the scimitars (there is precedence for such shenanigans, see velociraptors).
About carrying capacity, yes you'll need to keep track of that, and no you don't need to bring everything you own into the arena. Unless you plan to prepare spells mid-combat, spellbooks can be left in your quarters or what not.
Ha, and he's human? XD
Sounds more like Spider-Raptor Man, unless he was born with multiple arms and grew his toenails for his entire life. :p
Synthesist if I had to bet.
Ah, claws on feet is all good then (though that should have nothing to do with dropping weapons then. Unless that was just for flavor, in which case, nevermind).
As for Elmer being human, I am somewhere in the ballpark of about 200% sure he is a synthesist :P (by which I mean I have looped around to being so sure, I don't even know). Poofing back into a kid at the end of a fight is a pretty good tipoff though.
Edit: And yeah, clearly I should have read more carefully, as the claws were quite specifically mentioned as being on the feet, not on any arms.
So they are Talons? Isn't that separate from Claws?
No such thing as a talon evolution for Eidolons, I don't think.
And claws, by default, are specified on the feet (which I've always found to be somewhat odd, as they're the default attack form of the Biped rather than Quadruped and seem like they'd be more wieldy on arms. But eh, so it is).
Edit: And yeah, clearly I should have read more carefully, as the claws were quite specifically mentioned as being on the feet, not on any arms.
Same goes for me then. :p
I think he must have attacked with the first two attacks, then as a free action, dropped his first two weapons to two-hand his next two, although I could be wrong because that would mean using his 1st set of attacking arms twice.
Anyway, doesn't matter. His concept is amusing because it's like a kids dream to have loads of arms and weapons to be the ultimate badass fighter, and this kid transforms exactly that way.
I haven't ever used a Synthesist as the whole set of mechanics confuse me, so I generally stick to Fighters, Barbarians or Clerics.
All Elmer did with hands and dropping things was two-hand a scimitar for increased damage when he was only able to get off a single attack. I was interested to learn that the claw evolution only specifies 'limbs', not hands :P
Convenient. :p
Are you English like myself Jehova? Your posting times suggest so, although mine wouldn't as I never sleep at specific times. :/
PM'd both characters to you btw.
Hopefully you can skim them without it taking up too much of your time, and if you need help creating a really awesome arena, I'm pretty handy with Photoshop so just give me a shout!
As for the Live Arena, I really hope it releases today (though that may be unrealistic). :)
What I'd love to see in the final arena is all kinds of things inspired by real life history, as in Tiger cages being opened, weapons and nets etc laid about the arena, traps and then the addition of multiple players on multiple players, or Champion matches whereby three people have to work together to take on one character much higher levelled than them.
The more fans characters attract could then introduce a mechanic where fans throw weapons into the arena, for their favourite and admired combatants of the Arena.
Would be epic! :D
All Elmer did with hands and dropping things was two-hand a scimitar for increased damage when he was only able to get off a single attack. I was interested to learn that the claw evolution only specifies 'limbs', not hands :P
I've already seen such a build and I'm not sure it is legal with a synthesist.
I know there has been a lot of debate on the synthesist and I do not want to start a flame war. I may also be totaly wrong in my reading so feel free to correct me.In raw it is clearly written:"The eidolon has no skills or feats of its own." So all feats must come from the synthesist.
But in the multiweapon feat, on of the prerequisite is have 3 or more hands which the synthesis does no have. So in my opinion, in raw, a synthesist cannot qualify this feat.
The argument that when he is fused with the eidolon, he has the three hands is not correct because to take a feat, you need to qualify with a permanent bonus. And the fusion of summoner is not permanent as it disappears when the summoner sleeps or is unconscious.
In contrary, this build could perfectly work with a normal eidolon, except that at first level, it would not have a high enough dex to qualify. But that can be dealt with extra evolution feats.
Interesting.
I'm all for him playing it. I was just curious as to how it was all legal, and if it isn't, then...have mercy on us all in the arena. :p
I thought I read somewhere that a Synth Summoner can take the Power Attack feat at level 1 (and can gain the benefit of Power Attack as long he/she's in Synth form). Can anyone verify that? I thought James Jacobs had posted something to this effect, but I can't find it.
If that's the case, then it sets precedent for the Summoner being able to take a feat as long as he meets the pre-req's in Synth form.
Then again, maybe I'm totally mis-remembering. Anyone know? Or have better Search-Fu than me? :)
I think in general, you can use the eidolon stats to qualify for feats. There have been a few threads, usually about Power Attack, that have it brought up. SKR has a response on it.
.
.
Can you use the fused physical stats to qualify for feats? Or must the synthesist use his own stats?Just as a Str11 character wearing a belt of strength +2 bumps him to Str13 and allows him to take Power Attack, you can do this. You just couldn't use the feat without the belt/eidolon-suit.
Edit: Ha, here you go, Eben :P