JCServant's Council of Thieves (Inactive)

Game Master JCServant

Sorry I missed this somehow. I've been dying to play a wiz/cleic/Mystic

Theurge, and I think I will.

I'm a HUGE fan of MyT. I've been told over and over again that they can't play with the big boys since they are 3 casting levels behind the others, but that doesn't stop me from HOPING. I *Adored* playing Mage/Cleric build back in 2nd ED.

Aroach1188 wrote:

Sorry I missed this somehow. I've been dying to play a wiz/cleic/Mystic

Theurge, and I think I will.

I'm a HUGE fan of MyT. I've been told over and over again that they can't play with the big boys since they are 3 casting levels behind the others, but that doesn't stop me from HOPING. I *Adored* playing Mage/Cleric build back in 2nd ED.

Its much easier in pf to pull it off. Ill finish the build later today

So...it looks like we have...

Monk
Ranger
Mystic Theruge
Priest

Is that right?

That's correct for me. Working details now.

Questions:

Infernal Bastard (Trait), I have read of it as being required by some GMs for Tieflings. Do you require it? If it's required, does it also 'cost' a Trait slot? If it's not required, is it otherwise allowed/preferred? Is it at that point costing a Trait slot, or considered an ARF?

I know I had more Qs, but not remembering them now.

Yeah, that was a rule in the player's guide, when they really hadn't worked everything out. I don't have it with me at the moment to look it up, but you'll want to look up Tiefling in the Advanced Race Guide and follow those guidelines instead. They may or may not mention that it needs to be taken.

Alright...so ... hmmm. I think we're missing someone from the last group, but with everyone changing nicknames and the such, I'm no sure who. Oh well. Whoever that person is, they've got about 1 day more to raise their hand!

Anyway, what are y'alls top two picks from the recruitment thread?

So...it looks like we have...

Monk
Ranger
Mystic Theruge
Priest

Is that right?

And don't forget Corellon Aelasar (Budfox/Elwyn) rogue - not sure exactly what focus I will have - I have the idea of guiding his skill development through roleplay - if I don't see or work on a trap at a level I won't add skills to disable device, etc. Sort of a Skyrim apporach.

Also don;t forget about Harboth's coming damage dealer!

I'm rolecalling: The Black Devil, ThornBorn, KRNVR, Sharan She-wolf
Playing The Black Devil, a Sohei/MoMS monk

Will review recruits once at home.

Keeping scorecard fresh

We've got in the 'old guard':

Ranger (archer-ish, asked GM if this is citycrawl. I'd guess yes.)
- so will the Ranger become a meleeist? Hm...

Mystic Theurge

Priest of Shelyn

Rogue

Monk

Looks like we could use a brick. Or another Rogue, and we go high stealth?

Anyway, will look at recruits after the drive home.

It really seems our group needs Telurion more than a ranger? Would you agree? :D

What do you want to play for two years? :) We can either pick a refrigerator from the recruits, or put out a new call, if you want a ranger.

As I said before, I am quite ok with playing Telurion, the front man :D

Fighter has always been my favorite class anyway though I never really had the opportunity to build one over several levels - this opportunity may be right up my alley. And we could sure use a tank.

What do you all say?

Ranger (archer-ish, asked GM if this is citycrawl. I'd guess yes.)

Well, yeah...it is :) I haven't read very far into it, but I think it's safe to assume there will be very few 100'+ fights.

Aroach1188/Rachele checking in.

Aljani is a wizard focusing on buffs/control spells. Going Cleric then Mystic Theurge. I can get into it by 5th level, how I love the magical knack trait.

This is just a basic outline. Still finishing out campaign traits, gear, skills, and backstory.

Feel free to ask any questions or give advice

@Telurion

Fighters get insane around 8-9th level, and even out from there. A frontliner would be nice, help me, the ultimate squishy caster, stay alive :) Ill make it worthwhile to keep me alive though

Aroach, how does magical knack get you into Mystic Theurge 2 levels early? your caster level increases (in other words, if you're a level 3 mage, 2 cleric, your effective level for casting spells for mage spells is now level 5 (So if a spell says that you do your caster level * d6, you can do a 5d6 fireball instead of 3d6). However, it does not give you access to higher level spells. In the example above, the mage can only cast 2nd level spells with this trait being a 3rd level mage...not 3rd level speells..

Requirement: Spells: Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells.

The only way I know of to meet this requirement is to have three levels in both mage and cleric (so it's probably impossible to get into before level 7). I know that someone tried to use another feat that allowed them to use Web once/day or something like that...but I had to turn that one down because it doesn't meet the requirement to be able to cast 'spells' which implies that you can cast the normal variety of 2nd level spells that a normal caster would have access to....not just access to one spell or spell like ability.

It is settled then, let me check if there is something I want to change on him, create alias, chose traits, etc.

Guys let me ask you - could we sum up each of our strengths and weaknesses? In combat and otherwise? Basically I am trying to understand if I should invest in any particular area.

Go to wizard 3 then cleric 1. Have cl 3 in both, which gives me 2nd level spells in both

Still building this dude. I know, tic tic tic tic....

But he's going to be hard to hit, and make people regret trying. Crane style, Panther style, Boar style... I'm still seeing how those legos go together. I thought Archon style looked awesome, buffing everyone's AC, BUT it's a standard action, so it doesn't stack with anything I can do to boost my own AC.

He's a Sohei, full fighter proficiencies, light armor. He looks like a fighter or a rogue, not an ascetic. Fights melee with a Bill, or a slashy forkish thing with Bill stats. No shields. Ranged he can use anything the fighters can, so probably Heavy Crossbow for the Alpha.

He's going to Fight Defensively, starting with Crane style so it's only -2 to hit. Crane and the Bill make that +4 AC.

Snake style later will boost Sense Motive, and his WIS will be OK, so he can cover that. But he's not the Face I thought he would be when I thought he was a Sensei.

Going back to the mechanics. Tic tic tic...

OK, had to search on the MT topic...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226597

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168729

Just a couple ideas in there.

You must have the ability to cast 2nd level cleric spells. Magical knack can give you an effective "caster level" of 3, but that does not make you a 3rd level cleric. You do not channel like a 3rd level cleric, you don't get 3rd level cleric BAB's and you cannot cast 2nd level cleric spells like a cleric can. "Caster Level" is basically a variable that plugs into spells, item creation, concentration checks and a few other things.

As another guy posted a while back, "The knack raises your effective caster level but that does not make you a level 3 caster.

Your spells are more effective but you are still a level 1 caster. You do not get more spells just the ones you have are more effective. For example, if you're a wizard 1/cleric 2 with Magical knack you get Two bolts out of magic missile, however, you cannot cast a 2nd level spell like invisibility.

A search on "Magical Knack" on the rules forum will pull up the above along with other statements to the same effect.

If you want to Aroach, you can call me on Skype (JCServant7) or the phone...I might be able to describe it a little better by voice.

Yeah...BD, I read a lot of those when I was researching this a long time ago. A player I had wanted to use that spider web feat I mentioned above to get into MyT at level 5, instead of 7. With 3.5 sprawling books, feats, etc, there was more than one way a crafty player could figure out how to get through the pre-reqs faster.

PF basically started over, closing a lot of those doors. They needed to because there were too many ways to create really OP'd characters.

I did a lot of research, and as far as I know, there's no PF feat, trait or item that allows one to get normal use of 2nd level spells in each area faster than normal progression. If ya find one, let me know...but Magical knack isn't it. (If it was, people everywhere would take it as a trait, dip one level into a caster class, hoping that by lv 1 caster/lv 2 melee, they have access to 2nd level spells. Score!)

Hopefully I will have some time to put some of your characters into herolabs tonight...so keep workin' on them! And if you have a pic of your character, email it to me.

Didnt know that JC. Well, looks like level 7 ill get in

Magical Lineage and Heighten Spell?

- The Devil Advocate :)

Aroach, it's a common misunderstanding regarding that trait.

Magical Lineage and Heighten Spell?

I love you, BD. Just for you, I got an editor's note.

Magical Lineage was never intended as a way for you to actually lower a spell's level. It was put in to allow you to reduce the increase from a metamagic feat.

Now, with ALL that being said, since we are no longer playing PFS, I do have the ability to houserule and bend stuff a wee bit. Aroach, when I used to played this WAY back in the day, I made an agreement with a player to build a custom feat (not trait) that I made which essentially allowed them to get into MyT 1 level earlier than normal (Which means that you would only be 1 level behind sorcerers and oracles in overall spell progression). I could look into herolabs (I live and die by HL) to see if I can set that up for you...but I don't want to spend the time doing so unless its something you're interested in. Thoughts?

One last note...don't forget that as you take levels in MyT, you do NOT gain the other abilities that clerics/mages, etc usually get when taking levels. In other words, you don't get extra channeling dice, you don't get two spells to scribe/lv, etc.

Aroach, it's a common misunderstanding regarding that trait.

Quote:

Magical Lineage and Heighten Spell?

I love you, BD. Just for you, I got an editor's note.

Editor's note on Magical Lineage wrote:

Magical Lineage was never intended as a way for you to actually lower a spell's level. It was put in to allow you to reduce the increase from a metamagic feat.

Now, with ALL that being said, since we are no longer playing PFS, I do have the ability to houserule and bend stuff a wee bit. Aroach, when I used to played this WAY back in the day, I made an agreement with a player to build a custom feat (not trait) that I made which essentially allowed them to get into MyT 1 level earlier than normal (Which means that you would only be 1 level behind sorcerers and oracles in overall spell progression). I could look into herolabs (I live and die by HL) to see if I can set that up for you...but I don't want to spend the time doing so unless its something you're interested in. Thoughts?

One last note...don't forget that as you take levels in MyT, you do NOT gain the other abilities that clerics/mages, etc usually get when taking levels. In other words, you don't get extra channeling dice, you don't get two spells to scribe/lv, etc.

Yep, I know what the MT gives up for the seemingly endless spells per day. If you could get it set up, Ill run with it.

I was able to set it up in HeroLabs. The feat is...

"Magical Focus" The caster is treated as one level higher for purposes of determining spell casting ability in either divine or arcane mage. This includes caster level calculation. This feat cannot allow a character to cast higher/more than his total levels would normally allow.

Example, A level 3 Wizard/2 Cleric takes this feat for divine caster.

He/she may now cast level 2 cleric spells as a 3rd level cleric. All caster level calculation for divine spells are done at +3.

Note: I made up this feat for another player a couple of years ago because I do believe that the requirements for Mystic Theurge are too high. I agree that in combat, the biggest obstacle facing casters (once they are at that level and higher) is the economy of actions, not whether or not they have enough lower level spells to last through the day.

The real power of the MyT (IMHO) is the versatility. With a huge range of spells memorized each day, they generally have the right spell for the job no matter the situation. Versatility IS power.

With that being said, the MyT normal progression means they have to wait a full three levels behind normal casters and 2 levels behind spont casters to get spells. That's a huge hit. My feat is designed to address that without going for a full change back to spont caster progression. With this feat, MyT is one level behind Spont casters and 2 levels behind "dedicated" casters with more limited spell selections.

I will be VERY interested to see how this plays out. Theory craftin' is all well and good...but actually experience at the table is king.

I got "Black Devil" character sheet done in herolabs. I know its still a work in progress for the player, but I wanted to get something finished tonight :) Feel free to make any changes, Krnvr. You still get 2 skill pts and three more languages, btw.

For the time being you can assume my character will be exactly like Telurion - I will only change the Avatar.

I am tailoring some last details.

If by any chance there is a dramatic class change, it will still be a tanking character :D

Ok,Telurion is finished - GM-JC you can run it through Herolab anytime.

I was equating purchasing it myself but with all the supplemental modules, it is quite a steep investment...

Cool.

I got some bad news at work...I'm losing one of my staff members temporarily which means I have to do his job too. I haven't had this happen in oh....7 years. So, it will be quite the adjustment. Hopefully it won't impact me too much here. I will keep y'all in the loop though.

I should get more of y'alls characters added to the PDF via herolabs tonight.

Yeah, it's definately an investment. Luckly I bought it early and just been buying the add-ins here and there. I couldn't imagine doing it all at once...

Been crazy busy at work, will have my char updated and input on others in today.

Cool. The nice thing is that I can put the whole party into HL, so even though not everyone has it, everyone can get some benefit out of it since it automates much of the calculations for you once you have the basic choices made.

No strong feelings on the recruitment tab? I guess I'll pick then. Seems like you guys already have most of the bases covered....

To be honest no, no outstanding vibes so far :D

Do we have to have a campaign trait, frankly there are just none that excite me, I'd rather the Andoran faction Hunter's Eye to allow my rogue the use of the longbow. Thoughts?

Ok...chose based on a PM with a friend, posting history and what might round out the team a little bit.

Welcome Bradon the alcehmist and Stray Hal the rogue!

Guys, welcome!

First, we need to get you guys set up on our shared Dropbox. It allows us (mostly me) to share files with the group. If you do not have a dropbox account, please sign up using This link.. After you're signed up, send me an email with your dropbox email addy so I can join you to the folder. You'll get an email from dropbox at that point asking you to accept. My email addy is jcservant at cyberlightcomics dot com.

Next, please email me your character information, or a link to it. I will be using Herolabs to manage everyone's characters. It gives you pretty PDFs with all the derivative stats properly calculated (most of the time). You can even send me a pic of your character and I can add it to the PDF. (See post above a bit for more information).

Feel free to post here or email me for specific questions. My phone number is available upon request to resolve more serious issues. My golden rule is, if you're frustrated, call. Don't allow issues to blow up in arguments here on the boards.

Again, welcome!

Oh...we already have a rogue....man... I'm working too hard. Do you both want to play rogues or do one of you feel inspired to try something else? Sorry, Elwyn/Corellon.

And, yeah...everyone has to take a campaign trait. Just choose what's the best flavor :D

Nothing wrong with two rogues - flank buddies! Are there vampires ahead? They could be the Flank Stakes!

I know, I know, back to work...

:)

LOL!

I would like to have everyone's character locked and loaded completely into HL by Monday. So back to work ! Everyone!!

Hi guys. Gm - thanks for the selection, I'm looking forward to it!

Unfortunately I have to get up at 5am so I wont be able to update my stats and such until tomorrow. However I too use HL so I can just send you the portfolio if you'd like?

As for my role, I see Brandon as backup melee with occasional bombs because explosions are fun. In a level or two he will take a more frontline approach and tank it up with Telurion and provide flanking opportunities for our rogue buds. He will have a couple of useful knowledges and umd as his main skills, both roleplay and mechanically he leaves something to be desired in social situations.

Still time for the new dad to get in? I'm the one of the old guard who has not yet checked in. If you feel good about the group as it is, though, I will not be offended.

As for character choice, if Telurion would like to try something new, I am more than happy to take on a front-line fighter role (probably a new dwarf or human fighter). I have a couple of ideas that could be fun, particularly since it looks like there are already two rogues on board.

Once I am back into a more regular schedule next week, I anticipate being able to post more like what you all are used to.

Either way, just let me know.

Yup. You can just send me the .por file for easy importing.

I can send you the updated POR as we adventure, upon request. If you don't have all the available data pacakges, you may get errors, however, if something is missing.

If we're tight, I will give Harboth my chair. Least I can do; he's still wounded from that fall during the spider fight! :)

Whoa...ninja'd!

I'm confused about who is who. Can I get a roll call? :P

I think we have two rogues, an alchemist, a Mystic Theurge in the making, a monk, a priest, a fighter...That's seven...did I miss anyone?

My thought process was...I tought we had six players last game, we lost one...and I'm bringing two in for a total of seven. For full blown campaigns I like to run with seven because, eventually, life happens, 1 or two leave, and hopefully we end with five-ish.

Harboth, I am planning to stick with Telurion, no worries.

After having looked at our current group composition and the potential 3 melees (including myself) I may equate a melee based inquisitor (if GM approves of course), which is a character I have been considering for some time, that I believe should also be able to be a frontliner.

So that role is covered ;)

GM-JC, do i still have time to ponder my inquisitor tank?

JCServant,

Thanks for choosing me. Although Hal did not stand out for the others in the recruitment thread I will do my do my best to make him memorable in the game itself.

I have to make a few tweaks to his crunch but that will not take me long. You noted that everyone has to submit PCs via Herolab. I have never used it before but I doubt it will be a problem.

OH wait...now I know my mistake in math...we picked up a new player when we started the 2nd part that we had to start. OOOOOOooooOO!

Well...we have eight. Hmmm. THat's an aweful lot to have at the table. But, I guess it isn't TOO much more than 7? LOL.

Well, let's give it a try, I imagine. If it doesn't work out, maybe we ask the weakest link to leave the island :P It may not be an issue though.