It's probably best to avoid overlapping out existing characters, yes. XD We have our Magus, a Wizard, and my Void Caller/Master Summoner, plus whatever Kienyach finalizes with.
And no worries on the delay. The website really was having some issues for awhile. Annoying as hell.
Hmm - if you're looking for a primary fighter with a bit of spellcasting, maybe look at one of the divine classes? The Pirates have already been detailed as primarily worshipping the sea gods. If you were a worshipper tied to Lianna, especially, you might actually have been sent our way.
Can I suggest you have a look at Warpriest?
I realise the first image is that of a hulking warrior, but a Starknife focused warpriest would get the ability to increase the base damage of the starknife, can trade a domain power for the divine fighting technique, gains a similar enhancement bonus to the magus, some spellcasting, and a decent BaB.
If you're worried about the healing rules, you could always do a N deity that does negative damage; channel for kill can be quite useful.
*piles on divine caster ideas*
Clerics of Besmara can be very fun to play.
GM I believe you mentioned another trait bestowed after character creation, yes? Is that something we want to take care of now?
And there is the meeting of two characters, while wildly different, who both dumped charisma :P
Incidentally, Luca's appearance is here - and yes, there's a reason for a pic with creatures who have too many eyes and worryingly long teeth. XD
Ah, yes. The third trait. I'll get started on yours today. Please answer questions in below spoiler to help me out.
Tyrus mentioned Lianna, who is a spirit they rescued in the original adventure of this campaign. However, I should point out that she is only a divine servant and not a goddess in an of herself - IE, she cannot be worshiped to grant spells. For that you would worship Lianna's mistress, Arrond, or one of the other sea gods.
There are also plenty of other goddess the pirates might worship, of course. Cyaile, a goddess of freedom, travel, and whim, is another popular one. Or if nothing in the pantheons strike your fancy I can come up with something entirely new, as the current offerings are admittedly a bit sparse.
The special traits are actually often decently powerful, they are meant to provide a finishing little flourish to your character's flavor, either covering a weak spot in your abilities, accentuating a a strength yet further, or even just adding an interesting skill from your background.
Is there anything in particular you'd like this trait to do? If not, I'll read through your crunch and your backstory and throw a few ideas at you, but you can always start that part of the process yourself.
Feel free to read Kienyach's spoiler and think of some ideas for what you'd want your special trait to be as well.
Also, if you want to get an alias created for your character you can start RP posting right away even before your build is finalized.
Maybe some sort of bonus against being mind controlled or restrained? Something like he has an overwhelming fear of losing his autonomy and resists it happening like a feral animal.
I was working on a Magus Eldritch Scion, worshipper of Desna, using a starknife and the great "Shooting Star" feat, connected to Desna. I noticed, however, that there's already a Magus, so I will probably work on something else - maybe a Swashbuckler, or Rogue, or pure Fighter. I will read more on the characters of the game to avoid overlapping. I wanted to build a pirate-like guy, so I'd prefer if I could keep it closer to that concept. My day tomorrow will be insane, but I hope to have something fleshed out soon.
There is a thrown weapon focused Swashbuckler. Flying blade.
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I can see Dante and Kienyach are going to be close.
Rolling...
x 4 = 480
Rolling...
Chess here with my character! I made him an inquisitor to see if I can help with the divine side of the things. Added cure and restore spells, even though he's more on the "in your face" fighting side.
I used simply "human" for the base of Dresna. If it's wrong, I will change (it was nice because it gave me an extra feat too, which I needed!).
I used Cyaile to represent Desna - hoping that works out. He's a "demon"/"monster" hunter type of inquisitor of the seas - he sails under the light of the stars and fights with his exotic starknives. He is a free spirited, chaotic good lover of travels and freedom.
As for a trait (thematic, yet quite strong), here's a suggestion:
Sharp Winds You're used to life onboard the Dresnan pirate ships. And, as such, you're used to fight onboard such vessels. At the violent seas, the biggest challenge sometimes is to be able to keep your balance and still beat the winds to survive - as such, when using the signature weapons of the sailing travelers, you know how to expertisely angle your throws. You can draw starknives as if you had the quick draw feat, and any starknife you throw immediately returns to your hand after hitting or missing your target, unless it's somehow destroyed or caught by someone ready to do so.
Oh good, someone's going for healing after all. We need that. XD
...
I am, however, curious to see how Timm's going to react the first time Luca summons something like an Akata... o wo; I mean, the Vilstraks could easily be mistaken for earth elementals, but...
Timm is more on the practical side, and will probably detect alignment on the first opportunity. If you're not evil, he probably won't care much of what means you're using to accomplish your ends - assuming of course your ends are aligned with his.
Well, she's only level four, so she doesn't even have an alignment aura that can be detected. XD Neither do her "friends", for that matter.
Great, Timm! (yes I will now be referring to you as your character name to cut down on confusion for me). I'll take a look ASAP and have any notes for you later today. Feel free to start posting as finalized stats won't be necessary for the current RP between characters. I'll have your and Kien's special traits ready soon(TM).
Also, it's up to you guys how long it takes you to come around to the idea of working together... but unless you really want to throw me for a loop with some kind of "race to the treasure" adventure between the two groups a la The Mummy, "working together" IS in fact what you should settle on. :)
@Luca: Well, Undead only need to have 2 HD, and any aligned Outsider can be detected ;) Anyway, I prefer simplifying it. He isn't a squared up obsessed paladin anyway.
You may recall that I treat alignment differently, which extends to "Detect <x>" spells. Generally speaking, non-divine casters won't appear as much of anything unless they have got some serious altruism or mayhem in their past.
Divine Casters have aura's roughly correlating to their character level
Aligned Outsiders have powerful auras
Creatures summoned or created with aligned magics have detectable auras (note though that undead can be created with non-evil magic in Eldreon! Though it's a bit more on the rare side...)
In short, Detect Alignment spells are still useful, but not quite as much.
Great, Timm! (yes I will now be referring to you as your character name to cut down on confusion for me).
*sigh* I'll get used to it.
Tim
Hush now Tyrus. ;)
Also, I love it when the PC's are having enough of a conversation that I don't have to get involved.
Also also, Timm, "later today" has officially become "sometime tomorrow."
Alright! Looks cool. Couple notes, and then below I'm gonna write up some details about the goddess Cyaile that (as a devout adherent) you should know.
First of all, yes re-roll 1's on HP. Go ahead and roll that one again.
1) You've misspelled "Drecna" (your race) as "Dresna" a couple times. :)
2) Where is your Darkvision coming from? Is it an inquisitor perk? Drecna do not naturally have Darkvision.
3) The extra feat is fine.
4) There is a slight issue with your languages. There is no Common in Eldreon, and normally you'd probably speak one of the Drecnan Languages. Kienyach also speaks Drecnan, so we can go forward just assuming that he constantly interlocutes for you, OR you can decide to speak two languages at a lower level. I'd suggest trading the ability to read and write to speak a language common to the group at a Basic level.
So your language would be Drecnan (F), Obanese (B)
Meaning that you can't read or write in any language, but you speak Drecnan fluently and Obanese in a passable manner.
5) You also still get to add a couple traits from your chosen Drecnan culture. See the bottom of this page for your options.
6) Finally, gear and money. Don't want to mess with your gear much, but with the masterwork items and expensive rope you have, chances are you don't have much spare change. I know switching economies is a pain, but take it from me that's you've got a lot of good stuff. Thus, assuming you don't want to mess with or give up much of your equipment, please reduce your carried wealth to 40 silver.
As a divine caster, you are dependant on your chosen deity for a great deal of your power. Gods do not often directly communicate with their followers, but divine casters require the approval of their deity to use spells and powers. Thus, you'll need to act generally in accordance with Cyaile's values and desires to keep using your spells and leveling in your chosen class.
Fortunately, this shouldn't be all that hard, as Cyaile is not the most demanding of mistresses.
Here's some general info.
Cyaile (prounounced SYE-ail)
Cyaile demands few things of her followers. She values individual initiative above most things - her followers are very seldom found in large hierarchies or bureaucracies of any kind. Her priests often devote themselves to helping the unfortunate break free of their situations so they can more easily follow their heart. Helping the poor out of poverty to follow a new path in life, helping the sick and injured get back up and moving about, and helping the bored, angsty, and melancholy find new things which excite them are all in keeping with Cyaile's devoted followers.
Especially important to the worship of Cyaile is the hatred of slavery in all forms. While not required to devote their lives to it, her followers are expected to try and fight it when they find it. This extends to both overt slavery of people in chains as well as more insidious forms such as the use of drugs, debt, or other subtle tools to keep people in control.
Cyaile loves travel, adventure, and unanchored lifestyles. The further you can roam and the more of the world(s) you can see, the better. She exhorts you to explore interesting places, go off the beaten path, and satisfy your curiosities.
FINALLY, for you in particular Timm, your idea to be a demon hunter in Cyaile's service has given me a new idea for an aspect of her worship. Your particular form of service would likely be pretty rare, but not unheard of. Cyaile does not demand or expect that all travels and adventures will be safe - in fact, she would find that expectation boring. However, she despises those who lie in wait specifically to trap and harm travelers. Spiders along the forest path, demons who lurk in caves to take the unwary, and things of that sort - those are what you are tasked to fight. Anything that sits still in order to harm those that move. (I just realized that Cyaile would really not be a fan of web-spinning spiders...)
And of course, much of what you do is entirely up to you. Divine casters will often received "nudges" from Cyaile (in the form of myself, your friendly GM) when she wants something from them.
Oooh, I just realized we might be able to make a good tie-in for our characters there. XD Cyaile hates slavery... and Luca's in a situation in which an unknown power is basically forcing her to do things on a regular basis. Wanting to free her from that - rather than killing her for summoning abominations - might be a pretty good explanation for them getting along.
Nice angle, I hadn't thought of that one yet.
Oh man. You'd get Kien in on that as well. He has serious issues with taking away autonomy.
GM have you thought any more about the custom trait?
@Kienyach: Yeah, lack of control is Luca's big problem. XD She's a Summoner who calls out Aberrations, but rarely is this willing - more often, the force behind her power is quite literally taking control of her body and forcing it to open a passage for minions. Its (apparent) motivation is keeping Luca safe, no matter what she thinks about its methods, which has pretty much shot her self-confidence to pieces. I plan for that to change over time, probably around the time she hits 7th level and really hits her stride as a summoner, but for now she's very nervous and withdrawn.
(And in the meantime, while I may flavor her as totally lacking in control, don't worry about me going against the party or anything. XD In game terms, I'm very much pro-party - and even if Luca herself is running and hiding, the fact that most of her power is in summoned minions means that won't be weakening the group.)
Kienyach: Yes, I'm going to have your and Timm's traits to you by the end of the day. Version 1.0 of them, at least. You will have further chance for input if you don't like how they ended up.
Chainbreaker: The thought of being chained again drives you to the brink of insanity. Whenever any part of your body is bound by magical or physical means, you gain +4 to strength until it wears off, and you gain +4 to any escape artist or other checks to remove the binding effect. (these effects do not stack: attempting a strength check to break a rope gains only the +4, for instance). This trait applies does not apply to mind-affecting magic.
GM Note: I figure this fits pretty well, plus it could allow you do do some crazy things if you are forced to fight while still bound up given your bonuses to unarmed damage.
I did not include a bonus to saves against mental compulsion as I thought that might cover a little too much ground. However, if you prefer to include that as well I would lower the above bonuses to +2 instead of +4.
Starknives auto-returning to hand is a bit too easy-mode for Eldreon, so that's out. However, if you wanted a starknife focused trait, how's the below sound?
Flashing Steel: You are adept at using your signature thrown weapons to turn the tide of combat in your favor. A successful attack with a thrown starknife allows you to replicate the effects of a Dirty Trick or Disarm combat maneuver, using your attack roll as the Combat Manuever Check score. In addition, you can draw a starknife as if you had the Quick Draw feat.
GM Note: As a divine, charisma-based fighter Timm seems like the kind of guy who might like to use Combat Manuevers but normally his stats would make that hard. This should open up some tactical options.
Let me know what you guys think. These are meant to be special to your character, so if you feel they aren't useful or aren't what you were thinking of/hoping for don't be afraid to say so.
I like it! I think I would opt to take the latter version, I think it goes better flavorwise.
Roger that, then the new trait reads:
Chainbreaker: The thought of being chained again drives you to the brink of insanity. Whenever any part of your body is bound by magical or physical means, you gain +2 to strength until it wears off, and you gain +2 to any escape artist or other checks to remove the binding effect. (these effects do not stack: attempting a strength check to break a rope gains only the +4, for instance). Furthermore, you gain +2 to Will saves against charm and compulsion spell effects made to influence your actions.
Hi Mercy! Thanks for the feedback. I'll do the corrections on Timm :)
1) Lol sorry! I probably misspelled it everywhere.
2) I used Human as based and got the dimdweller trait to replace skilled. I will fix it and adjust to use the "Drecna" race from the page you linked!
3) Thanks.
4) I will adjust accordingly - maybe get Linguistics or something like that. I like the idea of not reading or writing though - it matches what a pirate would be like - but I'm afraid it could mess up with the inquisitor thing?
5) Roger that! I will read and adjust accordingly.
6) I will review my entire money, probably. Maybe I should try to list it out to make the calculations right.
That's quite awesome information, and I love how it matches well with the concept I had in mind. Good stuff.
I think these are all great connections. Timm is definitely a freedom-lover type of guy. He's not the old cloudfaced inquisitor thing, but rather someone who enjoys the life at sea and to whom his worshipping comes naturally. He prays, he follows the goddess code, and he lives. And I can see how he'd directly identify with characters struggling for the lack of freedom in some aspects, and how Cyaile would hit it on the nail.
Sounds good! Timm probably won't throw much his starknives anyway - he's better on getting with them in melee to combat. I like the maneuvers angle, though, as it opens very nice options.
@GM: I just finished the adjusts on the sheet. I put a calculation at the bottom for wealth - I used the gold system, but I think we can convert easier now?
I rather like the idea of foregoing reading/writing for your character. I don't think it'll get in the way of your inquisitor schtick, no. Cyaile certainly doesn't expect her followers to be erudite.
Alright, that equipment/cash looks a bit better, And the system is just changing gold for silver at a 1:100 ratio, so now you'd have 58 silver left.
Prices are very different in Eldreon, but I don't want to bother you guys with that at character creation. You'll find out as you go.
Oh, and I've decided that your Holy Symbol, for Cyaile, is a meaningful trinket that you picked up on an adventure. Something that wasn't easy to obtain.
Thanks! Sounds good :) I'd like it to still have a crude/pirate-y aspect, if possible, but it can definitely be meaningful in other ways.
I think we should walk Fluffy-Timm-Dante-Luca-Tyrus-Kien. Meat-shields to the front and back with squishies in the middle. Watch will be a little better but we have awful checks. Tyrus and Luca(Fluffy) can take the end watches and Timm and Kien the middle assuming Timm can do that. That gives the casters unbroken sleep.
I can do one of the middle watches (probably closer to dusk so it's not as dark) assuming we can put a fire up (since I can't see in the dark at all). At least I think my spells refresh if I pray (do divine casters need consecutive hours of sleep as arcane casters?).
Inquisitors are spontaneous divine casters, so I imagine that as long as you get enough sleep overall your spells refresh.
So I went to see what kind of climb Timm has and saw some inconsistency in the build immediately. First was the really high charisma. An 18? Inquisitors don't need that high of charisma. That has hampered your physical stats which should reduce combat ability. But then I saw the attack was still pretty high even though Dex was 10. It looks like you are using Divine Fighting Technique (Way of the Shooting Star) to get Charisma to att/dam for starknives. For one, that feat is only for bards and replaces their Versatile Performance. Two, Ravener Hunter exempts you from that feat in the first place since you are not supposed to have a chosen deity. Charged by Nature says as much. Finally I got back to Climb. -1 for a guy with a backstory that involves a lot sailing. In game you even said "Drecnas think about climbing almost instinctively due to the years up the rigging".
I know I am being nitpicky. Sorry for that. But I feel characters should reflect the backstory. Or if you really like a certain class or ability, the backstory should reflect or explain the build.
I suppose the silver lining of your scrutiny is the noticeable lack of complaints about Kienyach's statblock :P
That reminds me...kidding. I have played long enough that I know the basic layout of most classes. So when I see something weird, like a high charisma inquisitor, I like to do some research. Divine Fighting is definitely something I will remember for any divine, or apparently bard, builds in the future.
@Dante: I do mind, and I do take offense. Other than the GM, I'd rather not have to deal with the envy/nitpicking/lack-of-something-useful-to-do from other players. If you have an issue with my character, please talk to the GM and, if he feels the same, I'm sure he will bring it up to me.
Shooting Star doesn't require you to be a bard. If you're a bard, then you have another way of accessing the feat than spending a feat (you can instead just replace a versatile performance with it). Most divine fighting techniques have this kind of cool alternate way for accessing it.
Second, Ravener Hunter doesn't say you don't worship a deity. Just that you'd not charged by a deity patron but rather by the spirits of nature itself. The only requirement is not being evil - you're still free to worship a deity. Like a fighter can worship a deity, even though he doesn't gain spells or other powers because of it. For instance, my archetype loses even the domain.
I specifically contacted the GM and talked to them about my intentions with my build - and why I wanted to use the starknives, besides the ridiculous low damage dice of the weapons. That's why we discussed if any other deity on this homebrew setting would match Desna or be close to it; and, then, I needed approval for my feat, since it required me to worship Desna (and to have the same alignment as her - CG).
If you have "played long enough", then I recommend studying more about the classes before going on criticizing other players' builds - especially because some of them, like me, might not take it on the right way. Another lesson to learn when you "play long enough".
That...was very poorly worded on my part. I am sorry I offended. I didn't mean to. I didn't understand how those things worked so I did some research. And I will admit, it wasn't enough.
But. Shooting Star doesn't require bard I see but you have to take the feat or give up a class feature. I still can't tell which.
I took this to mean can't have a deity patron but I guess it can be a choice. I hadn't considered that.
I don't see why the DM needs to get involved though. That's rather childish. We aren't bickering children that need an adult to set us straight. I'll admit I was wrong on this. I am sure we can work through this like adults ourselves and carry on.
Alright guys. I'm sure neither of you is looking for a fight so let's all take a deep breath. Dante may have been very straitforward and blunt and didn't mention the possibility he was wrong, but players scrutinizing each other's builds is hardly a rare occurrence on the boards.
Dante if you would allow me to reframe your inquiries, perhaps it may come off to Timm better if we think about the discussion with this as the original question:
"Hey Timm, your character build interested me but I was confused by some of it. If you would be so kind could you help me understand how the build comes together?"
And perhaps you're not interested in explaining, which is perfectly fine because as you say only the GM has to approve it.
But we can be friendly about this :)
Agreed. I apologize if I got offended - having a tough day work, and it simply doesn't justify. If you need to understand something about my build, or PF rules in general, please PM me instead in the future.
The characters in this game do tend to have a few non-standard tweaks, huh? Take Luca's non-standard summoning list, for example, which isn't exactly a minor modification. XD Incidentally, you're all welcome to comment if you think something in my build is off. I'm pretty confident that everything's right, but I'm happy to answer any questions just to be absolutely sure.
I think I figured it out. Mulligan.
If someone puts together a character that is overpowered compared to the group average, he'll downpower it a bit.
For the record Luca and Dante have, I believe, both run into this. Tyrus hasn't, but I've made some appalling build choices over time because I've been freed from the need to keep up with the bleeding edge of efficiency - for example, despite being 3rd level in a low magic item world, Tyrus doesn't have Craft Wondrous Item. My initial concept, incidentally, involved things like "Racial Heritage" and "Dhampyr" before Mercy talked me down.
I suspect as I move closer to the exalted 20th level wizard state, the Nerf Gun of Play Well Together is going to start targeting Tyrus more... and I'm okay with that. I have a theory on how to get an Ascended Mythic Time Stop by 17 - but I know there's no way I'm going to be allowed to use it.
Of all games where I don't much care if people got their builds right, this is the king.
Looks like I missed some fun.
It's perfectly valid to inspect each other's builds if you suspect something amiss. I'm unlikely to ever go through everything with a fine-toothed comb because A) I trust you guys to take care of your own character sheets and B) I need all the time I can get just running the game. If there are mistakes that were made, they can be corrected. If they were large enough, they'll be purposely overcorrected for a time. But I don't expect that to come up much. Still this means that I don't mind it when such scrutiny is applied FOR me. However, if you do detect something you think is in error, you should bring it to me via PM, as I might be privy to details regarding what I've given permission for that you are not. And of course, I'm the only one with the high holy authority of the GM to approve or disapprove of anything.
As Luca and Tyrus have said, the characters in this game get a lot of homebrewed tweaks. That is as I prefer it - I don't want any character in my games to be the exact same as any other, even with similar ideas behind them. I find perfectly optimized builds to be soulless and boring. I am the anti-powergamer.
I allowed Timm to use several some interesting feats for several reasons, one of which being that he deliberately chose an interesting low-damage weapon to focus his combat abilities around. I was a little iffy on the "everything is based on charisma" but we're trying it out. I can always decree a change later if I decide it is too powerful. Fortunately, as the GM, I get to be megalomaniacal like that.
As far as balance goes, yes I balance by eye. But as mentioned in the recruiting threads I don't try to enforce perfect balance across the party. Some characters will be more "powerful" than others. I find this makes for more interesting dynamics both within the party and without. If a player feels their character is sidelined and useless, they should use that and try to find how their character might change in response. Or even if they might decide to leave the party voluntarily and have the player roll a new character to be introduced at some point. (Note that this is an option open to anyone at any time, especially if you feel your character has reached a natural end to their arc or reason to be adventuring).
And a final note on balance - I also have plenty of levers to pull in-game to introduce balance or to discourage players from "abusing" a powerful mechanic too much. I don't always need to mess with a character's build to achieve the result I want, and in fact have been trying not to.
And finally finally, in case this wasn't entirely clear yet, I care about roleplaying and the evolving storyline of the campaign before everything else. In my games, the Crunch serves the Fluff, not the other way around. :) (hell, I think I might take that for my motto. "House Mercy: The Crunch Serves the Fluff")
For what it's worth, I'm pretty much entirely Charisma-based as well. XD It's just that as a Summoner, I'm not as direct about the benefits of that.
Okay - I've updated the Loot Table.
We'll need to update it properly to include T & K, but that's not something we'll need to do until after this adventure, I think.
Kienyach and Timm, I do combat with somewhat less strict Init rules because of the limitations of play-by-post. All players will generally post actions at the same time, then I use the init order to adjudicate them. If a target you attacked is dead by the time your turn comes up or if your action is otherwise rendered moot, I try to redirect it in a logical way or in keeping with your character. You can also provide me with backup directions, eg "I attack orc B, but if it is dead by that time I attack the closest orc without cover" or some such. For my sake, try not to make them too complicated. :)
Generally init order will be lumped into "factions" so the players go as a group.