Ranger, Hunter or Inquisitor (Sacred Huntsmaster) for a archer with pet?


Advice


So.. I kind of wanna build an archer with a good combat capable pet.. I want the pet to be good and useful in combat while I support with some magic (Heals and buffs) And then stay back and shoot arrows at the foes my animal companion are targeting...

The classes that to me seems to best for this is Ranger, Hunter, And Inquisitor with the Sacred Huntsmaster archetype, But I enver played a archer before so I dont know what one of them to pick... So could I get some pros and cons of each of the three? What are the advantages of each one over the other two?

Dark Archive

Rangers can take monstrous mount and get a griffon. That's pretty rad.

Sacred HuntMaster is an absolute unit. Really, really strong. And all those lovely self only buffs can be cast on your pet, or shared with improved spell sharing Teamwork feat

Hunter is OK, but the spells will focus on the animal more.

Personally I like sacred hunt master, and take the planar focus feat, and ask the dm if favored animal focus can work with it. Use raptor or big cat for pounce. Possibly add totem guide archetype to the companion.


Thank you for the reply! A griffon does sound mighty... Hmm...


Archery and a griffon mount tend to cost more feats than a mere ranger has. You'll want monstrous mount, monstrous mount mastery so you can fly on it, boon companion so it's not behind on levels, a bunch of archery feats because archery's like that, then there's the mounted combat chains peering at you round the corner...if you're not starting at high level hunter or sacred huntsmaster will come together much faster.


The ranger is going to be a better archer than the other two. First of all he has a higher BAB and get bonus feats. The bonus feats allow you access to some feats earlier than other classes and even those that other classes cannot get at all. The ranger’s spell casting is weaker than the other two, but he is a divine prepared caster so get access to all the spells on his list. The ranger’s animal companion is more limited and weaker than the others. Boon companion can boost it to the level of the others that, does require a feat. Monstrous mount will give you a griffon but that means another feat.

The hunter and inquisitor have a lot in common. Both are medium BAB classes with 6th level spontaneous casting. Both get similar animal companions and share their teamwork feats. Both also get 6 skill point per level. They also both have two good saves.

As far as spells goes both the hunter and inquisitor have decent spell lists. The hunter can get earlier access to some spells because he uses the lower of the level between ranger and druid. A lot of the hunters spells are nature themed, but that does give you a lot of spells to buff your companion. This means that the hunter companion will end up being stronger than the others. The hunter does get all the summon natures ally spells in addition to his normal allotment of spells known so ends up with more spells known than the inquisitor. The inquisitor spells are primarily buff and utility spells. The inquisitor does get more spells that are going to be useful in social settings. Overall I would say the hunter is slightly better at spells due to getting summon natures ally spells.

The inquisitor gets more class abilities than the hunter especially those useful in social settings. Being able to detect a creatures alignment and tell when they are lying is always useful. Stern gaze also helps when interacting with others. Keeping secrets form an inquisitor is actually pretty difficult. Bane and monster lore give them an edge in non-magical combat.

In short the ranger is the better archer. The hunter is better if you want to focus on combat spells, and the inquisitor is better in social situations.

Silver Crusade

I would honestly take the huntsmaster its literally just hunter with a better spell list and bane.


To be clear, a buffed huntsmaster is a better archer than a ranger too.


avr wrote:
To be clear, a buffed huntsmaster is a better archer than a ranger too.

Seconded. Ranger is nice for the early entry feats, but Bane is always useful and Favored Enemy can't always be leveraged well.


Thanks everyone! I wasent looking for a mounted archer, So yeah, I guess the griffon wouldent be useful.. xD The Hunter seems quite nice for buffing up the companion, But I think the Inquisitor might be a bit more fun. Thanks again!


I think you are selling the ranger short. By 10th level the ranger will have the following feats Clustered Shot, Deadly Aim, Improved Precise shot, Manyshot, Point Blank Master, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot and Weapon Focus Long Bow. The inquisitor will have Deadly Aim, Manyshot, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot and Weapon Focus. The inquisitor is never going to get Point Blank Master, and does not qualify for improve precise sot until 15th level. The rangers higher BAB not only increases his chance to hit it also increase the effect of deadly aim. The ranger also gets spells that can boost his archery, specifically Gravity Bow.

Assuming both characters have a 14 STR, 18 DEX and are using a normal composite bow. The Ranger has +8*+8/+3 to hit and deals 2d6+8 Damage with Gravity Bow. The Inquisitor with Bane active has a +8/+8/+3 to hit and deals 1d8+8 +2d6 for bane. So on the average will do 4.5 more damage per shot, but applies any DR per shot. The inquisitor also provokes an AoO when shooting. The ranger on the other hand adds all the damage up and applies the DR once. He can continue to shoot even when in melee with an enemy. If the ranger is fighting his favored enemy (or using Instant Enemy) he is now +14/+14/+9 and does 2d6+14 for damage.

The rangers spell list has a couple of spells that are incredibly useful for a archer. The first is of course Gravity Bow, other include Abundant Ammunition, Aspect of the Falcon, Arrow Eruption, and more. Instant Enemy also allows you to apply your highest favored enemy bonus vs any creature.

A standard inquisitor would also have Judgements which would boost his archery considerably, but the sacred huntsmaster gives those up.


The ranger there MS has spent a standard action to buff, the inquisitor just a swift action. At 10th level the inquisitor might cast shield of darkness or greater invisibility to negate AoOs if those are an issue (also gaining +2 attack & denying the enemy their dex bonus), or if they're comfortably out of reach then they might cast divine favor (+3 attack & damage) or a spell to deal with DR if that's an issue. Or if they're saving spell slots they might just take another round of attacks over the ranger.

The inquisitor is the better archer.


Hunter has ranger spells, but gets them faster, has more and they are more powerful. Hunter gets free focus which is basically saving you from spending money on your primary stat to attack. Hunter gets free feats which can be used to maneuver around the field and free precise shot, which is almost a must. If you choose something like forester hunter archetype you'll get free combat feats and always on hunters focus in addition to min per day focus in swift action buff. Money saved means buying stronger bows not dex belts and always on focus means saving buff time.

Ranger gets full BAB and skips prereqs. Companion aside that alone is more than enough to qualify. However their spells are weaker and few. Skirmisher is a great archer archetype. Full BAB cant br ignored because more attacks means more arrows. That's your only job and both other classes fall behind on that. It's short sighted to ignore the best strength in the only job you'll have, shooting arrows.

Sacred huntsmaster has great buffs but trades off in delayed hunters focus. It makes the first few levels a lot tougher to live through but in the long (LONG) run it comes out ahead as it gains what the hunter has eventually and still keeps the good stuff. If you plan on a long campaign it's the best choice.

All 3 work, I prefer hunter forester myself but if you keep a companion I actually like compel hostility and share spells to make the pet tank for you.


I am not saying an inquisitor is a bad archer, but it has some limitations. The first is that bane has a limited number of uses, when that happens the inquisitor damage output goes way down. Gravity Bow last 1 minute per level so can easily be cast prior to combat. It is also a first level spell so a wand of Gravity Bow goes for a mere 750 gold. That means the ranger can pretty much count on having it when he needs it.

Greater Invisibility is a 4th level inquisitor spell. By the time that becomes available to the inquisitor the ranger has access to Instant Enemy. Instant Enemy at 10th level can give the ranger +6 to hit and damage. That puts the ranger solidly ahead of the sacred huntsmaster. If the inquisitor still had judgements then it would be different.

The ranger has the advantage that his combat ability depends less on expending limited resources. When fighting without spells his chance to hit remains the same and his damage only drops about 3 points than in my example in the previous post. The inquisitor on the other hand sees his chance to hit drop by 2 and his damage goes down by 9 points. Without buffs the ranger is obviously the superior archer.

Instant Enemy is the single most useful spell for a ranger. With it a ranger can apply his favored enemy bonus to any creature. It is also low enough level to be put into a wand, and that is the best investment a ranger can make. Once Instant Enemy comes online every boss will be treated like the rangers highest favored enemy type. This also allows him to use Quarry on any boss. The extra +2 to hit is nice, but what really makes the difference is being able to auto confirm critical hits. Since all of the ranger’s damage is multiplied on a critical and the bow has a x3 multiplier that again put s the ranger ahead when fighting the boss.

Continuing the progression of the characters at 11th level the ranger gains Quarry and takes improved critical to get the most out of it. He also gains an additional attack per round. The inquisitor will pick up Clustered Shot. At 12th level the inquisitor gains greater bane so his damage goes up by an average of 7 points per hit. The BAB of the ranger at this level increases to 12 so his damage goes up by +2 on all shots. So at this level the ranger is getting an extra attack per round and is twice as likely to get a critical hit. If he does manage to get a critical hit the target is going to take a lot more damage. the average damage the ranger is doing on a critical hit is about 69 points of damage without anything but gravity bow. The inquisitor does 51 with the same equipment. So at 12th level the ranger has a 10% chance of getting a critical hit vs the inquisitor 5%, and when he does he does 40% more damage than the inquisitor. So how exactly is the inquisitor the better archer?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Cavalier (any archetype that retains Expert Trainer) 4/hunter (courtly hunter) X with Boon Companion and Horse Master. Get a mount and an animal companion (that's intelligent and can change into a "harmless" housepet) with full progression on each.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
I am not saying an inquisitor is a bad archer, but it has some limitations. The first is that bane has a limited number of uses, when that happens the inquisitor damage output goes way down. Gravity Bow last 1 minute per level so can easily be cast prior to combat. It is also a first level spell so a wand of Gravity Bow goes for a mere 750 gold. That means the ranger can pretty much count on having it when he needs it.

I hadn't protested the availability of gravity bow to the ranger, just that they were taking an extra standard action to buff over the inquisitor in your example.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Greater Invisibility is a 4th level inquisitor spell.

But shield of darkness is a 3rd level inquisitor spell (available from character level 7).

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
By the time that becomes available to the inquisitor the ranger has access to Instant Enemy. Instant Enemy at 10th level can give the ranger +6 to hit and damage. That puts the ranger solidly ahead of the sacred huntsmaster. If the inquisitor still had judgements then it would be different.

The inquisitor's equivalent is divine favor, a 1st level spell which gives +3 attack/damage by 9th level, +4 with a trait. Against all enemies not just against one.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
The ranger has the advantage that his combat ability depends less on expending limited resources. When fighting without spells his chance to hit remains the same and his damage only drops about 3 points than in my example in the previous post. The inquisitor on the other hand sees his chance to hit drop by 2 and his damage goes down by 9 points. Without buffs the ranger is obviously the superior archer.

True. The inquisitor has more buffs than you think though, ~17 spell slots and 10 rounds of bane by 10th level before getting a bane baldric or wands.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Instant Enemy is the single most useful spell for a ranger. With it a ranger can apply his favored enemy bonus to any creature. It is also low enough level to be put into a wand, and that is the best investment a ranger can make. Once Instant Enemy comes online every boss will be treated like the rangers highest favored enemy type. This also allows him to use Quarry on any boss. The extra +2 to hit is nice, but what really makes the difference is being able to auto confirm critical hits. Since all of the ranger’s damage is multiplied on a critical and the bow has a x3 multiplier that again put s the ranger ahead when fighting the boss.

A wand of instant enemy costs 750 x 3 x 7 = 15 750 gp. It's worth it, but a valid comparison needs the inquisitor to have another 15K in items over the ranger - a bane baldric (10K), and maybe a few dozen +2 equivalent arrows for special situations?

I really don't rate abilities which matter only on nat 20s. Also the ranger can't use quarry at 10th level, and it takes a standard action anyway. If you're giving the inquisitor a second standard action buff then they too get scarier.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Continuing the progression of the characters at 11th level the ranger gains Quarry and takes improved critical to get the most out of it. He also gains an additional attack per round....

The quote function breaks here. If you're going to shift goalposts though note greater bane at 12th, 5th level spells at 13th and 6th at 16th for the inquisitor, none of which a ranger ever gets.

Also your whole example has exactly zero teamwork feats in play, and these matter to an inquisitor too.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Instant Enemy is the single most useful spell for a ranger. With it a ranger can apply his favored enemy bonus to any creature. It is also low enough level to be put into a wand, and that is the best investment a ranger can make.

A major part of its usefulness is that it is a swift action to cast it. If you make a wand out of it then it becomes a standard action to use, and even though it has a min/level duration it can't be prebuffed since it only applies to one target within close range. The last restriction makes it so that you may be unable to cast it even when combat has started.

I'd instead buy a Lesser Echoing Metamagic Rod (14,000) to get more uses of the spell itself.


I had already factored in greater bane at 12th level into my calculations. The 51 points of damage include the damage from the full 4d6. One thing about bane is that it is not multiplied on a critical hit.

A natural 20 is a 5% chance. Also with increasing number of attacks the chance of a critical increases. The Inquisitor has about a 14% chance to get at least one critical when firing 3 shots. The ranger at 12th level has about a 34% chance to get at least one critical hit when firing 4 shots. Not factoring in critical hits is a mistake as they significantly increase the damage. Since I did not factor in either character using magic weapon both characters are going to be doing more damage per shot and on a critical hit. Since the ranger will eventually have a much better chance to get a critical hit his damage will be even greater.

Both classes continue to gain abilities as they level up. The ranger may not get 5th or 6th level spells but that does not mean his spells are not worth considering. The rangers favored enemy bonus keeps increasing as he levels up and can get as high as +10 to hit and damage. The ranger also will have one extra attack per round and 2 extra points of damage per shot from deadly aim due to having a higher BAB.

At low levels the ranger’s bonus feats and earlier access to feats are difficult to complete with. Having point-blank shot, precise shot and rapid shot at 2nd level is something an inquisitor simply cannot do. Getting an extra attack and being able to use the bow while in melee at 6th level is also a big advantage. Many shot also come online earlier further increasing the number of attack the ranger gets at 7th level. At 9th level clustered shot allows the ranger to deal more damage to creatures with DR. 10 level gives the ranger improve precise sot which allow him to ignore anything less than total concealment or total cover. An inquisitor does not even qualify for that until 15 levels. At 11th level the ranger will get improve critical which increase his damage considerably. After that the rangers higher BAB will give him a better chance to hit, more attacks and more damage. He can also leverage class abilities like favored enemy or quarry when needed.

The real benefit of the inquisitor is that they can do a lot more, not that they are a better archer than the ranger. What they bring to the table is not simply combat but ability to solve problems. Sure they will have a couple of combat buffs, but if they are smart they will focus more on espionage and utility spells. A sacred huntsmaster will also probably need to focus on some defensive spells as they don’t have judgements to boost their defenses. Don’t bother with greater invisibility take the standard invisibility it last much longer. Instead of shield of darkness pick up heroism as a 3rd level spell. It’s a long lasting buff that gives you +2 to just about any roll. Detect thoughts allows you to read minds. Speak with dead allows you to questions someone after they died. Divination can get the adventure moving when the party runs into a road block. Inquisitors only get a few spells don’t waste a lot of slots on combat buffs. Pick a few good ones and stick with those. Divine favor for example is always good.

The ranger has one advantage on spells. As a divine prepared caster he gets all the spells on his lit when he gains the ability to cast that level of spell. That means he is better able to adapt to situations than a spontaneous caster. They may not get as many spells, or higher level spells, but their spell selection can change daily.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
I had already factored in greater bane at 12th level into my calculations.

Let us use the Automatic Bonus Progression to see how big the difference between the two is. +2 Weapon and a +4 Belt at level 12 with your proposed feat paths gives the following attack routines (although you forgot Boon Companion for the Ranger).

unbuffed attack routines*:
Unbuffed Ranger:
+16(M)/+16/+11/+6 (1d8+12, 19-20/x3)
Favored Enemy bonus: +6/+2/+0

Dmg vs Median CR 12 AC (27)
(+0)= 34
(+2)= 48
(+6)= 84

Unbuffed Inquisitor:
+14(M)/+14/+9 (1d8+10, x3)

Dmg vs Median CR 12 AC (27)
= 21

***

As we can see, if the Ranger is fighting against their primary FE they deal four times the damage of the unbuffed Inquisitor (21 vs 84). But that's a big IF. Instant Enemy doesn't solve this yet because you have too few uses, a Wand is bad action economy, and it only affects one enemy. And if you're fighting one of your actual favored enemy types (one of the +2) you can't use Instant Enemy.

But the biggest fault of the unbuffed comparison is that it simply doesn't play out like that in a normal adventuring day. A level 12 Inquisitor will have enough Bane rounds for an entire day as the number of actual, full-attacking, rounds of combat is far lower than you'd think. More so if they've bought the Bane Baldric. What you can compare is the unprepared Ranger vs the unprepared Inquisitor. The Ranger is going to be the same, while the Inquisitor probably has a long-duration buff such as Heroism active (4 hours with a Lesser Rod of Extend). And then the Inquisitor can just swift-action Bane their target while full-attacking.

unprepared attack routines*:
Unprepared Ranger (the same):
+16(M)/+16/+11/+6 (1d8+12, 19-20/x3)
Favored Enemy bonus: +6/+2/+0

Dmg vs Median CR 12 AC (27)
(+0)= 34
(+2)= 48
(+6)= 84

Unprepared Inquisitor (Heroism, Bane):
+18(M)/+18/+13 (1d8+12, x3)+4d6

Dmg vs Median CR 12 AC (27)
= 60

***

Now we see that the Ranger has to fight their primary FE to not fall behind the unprepared Inquisitor. If we start throwing in pre-buffs then the Inquisitor comes out ahead because the Ranger doesn't have comparable buffing. Neither in quality or quantity. I don't think it's hyperbole to say that any of the Ranger's buffs will be worse than Divine Favor.
Quarry's damage boost becomes lower and lower the better your accuracy, which should be pretty high with another +2 against a Favored Enemy

If you know that your campaign will heavily feature a specific creature type then the Ranger is a strong choice. And any of the archetypes that grants you half of your highest FE to apply whenever (Fortune Finder, Ilsurian Archer, Etc) should give you similar damage to the unprepared Inquisitor. But assuming that the Inquisitor won't ever get to buff just to compare your best to their worst won't give you a good idea of the Inquisitor's strength.

*This is not accounting for the Inquisitor's potential Soft Cover AC penalty (which can be circumvented), or the four teamwork feats the Inquisitor has. A normal Inquisitor would also have Judgments.


On the unprepared section you give the Inquisitor the benefit of heroism. That is not unprepared. Heroism is a long lasting buff, but the inquisitor still cannot keep it up all the time.

You are also not factoring in the fact the ranger has improved precise shot so can ignore the AC bonus for anything less than total cover and the miss chance of anything less than total concealment. Not having to deal with an extra +4 to the AC will make a major impact on damage. So now the inquisitor has to hit an AC of 31 instead of 27. That drops his damage down to 30. (Without Heroism). compared to the ranger’s in 34. Many GM’s don’t enforce this rule but it is still a valid rule.

As to buffs gravity bow increases the damage of medium composite bow from 1d8 to 2d6. It also lasts a lot longer than divine favor. Aspect of the Falcon gives a +1 attack on ranged combat and increases the critical hit range to 19-20. It also lasts 1 minute per level. Hunters Howl affects a 20ft radius burst and allows you to treat the target as if it where your favored enemy (but you only get a +2 bonus). Venomous Bolt only takes a swift action to cast and the target is affected as if the spell poison had been cast on them. Bow spirt gives basically gives you another attack with the bow per round that stacks with haste.

I don’t know what type of campaigns other people play in but in my campaigns there is usually more than 12 rounds of combat in a day. Most of the bosses I create have a lot of minions you need to get through before you even get near them. The Last dungeon they party was in there were about 10 fights before they reached the boss and most of them lasted at least a few rounds. Only 2 of them were serious but they still needed to get through the minor ones before they got to the boss. If there was an inquisitor and he used Bane and buffs for every encounter he would have had nothing left when he needed it. It was a fairly small dungeon so only took a couple of hours to get through.

If this was a standard inquisitor with judgements it would indeed alter the numbers. But the sacred huntsmaster trades away judgements. When fully buffed the standard inquisitor is an absolute terror. But they are definitely a nova class. They may not be able to go all day, but if they are smart they have it when they need it.

Shadow Lodge

For pfs, I had a priestess of Horus with her sacred falcon. She was a divine hunter (hunter archetype). I put most of my stuff towards making her bird more powerful. Human for eye for talent. Animal domain for another +2 to stats. Feats- animal affinity, andoran falconry, huntmaster, and totem beast.

I got her up to level8. Her celestial falcon had AC32, 60hp, saves of +8/12/8, 3 attacks at +14 (1d4+12), DR5/evil, resist acid, cold, electric 10, and smite evil 1/day for +8 damage. The priestess was only an ok archer with +12/7 (1d8+5) with her bow, but she mostly just supported with buffs and heals.

As others have said- ranger can be the better archer. Inquisitor can also be a really good archer with bane and judgements. Hunter can have the best pet.

Dark Archive

if the OP wants a griffon for the ranger thats an extra feat, or 2 if they want to ride it, 3 including boon companion.

a sacred huntmaster inquisitor could take the chivarly inquisition get a mount AND an animal companion


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
On the unprepared section you give the Inquisitor the benefit of heroism. That is not unprepared. Heroism is a long lasting buff, but the inquisitor still cannot keep it up all the time.

Four hours. Maybe I should have used another term but Heroism will definitely be up for an entire dungeon, and unless you're constantly ambushed you usually have a good idea of when the dangerous part of the day comes up.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
You are also not factoring in the fact the ranger has improved precise shot so can ignore the AC bonus for anything less than total cover and the miss chance of anything less than total concealment.

I did bring that up in the last paragraph of my post. But if the Inquisitor is mounted they can simple relocate to a better position while full-attacking, or if the companion is on the frontline they can take Friendly Fire Maneuvers with one of their bonus teamwork feats. The Deadeye Bowman trait is also quite popular. As for the miss chance benefit, the Ranger should have bought a Seeking bow by now so that they can handle invisible opponents. It's likely the best ranged enchantment of them all so the Inquisitor should also want it, which cancels out the Improved Precise Shot benefit.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
As to buffs gravity bow increases the damage of medium composite bow from 1d8 to 2d6. It also lasts a lot longer than divine favor. Aspect of the Falcon gives a +1 attack on ranged combat and increases the critical hit range to 19-20. It also lasts 1 minute per level. Hunters Howl affects a 20ft radius burst and allows you to treat the target as if it where your favored enemy (but you only get a +2 bonus). Venomous Bolt only takes a swift action to cast and the target is affected as if the spell poison had been cast on them. Bow spirt gives basically gives you another attack with the bow per round that stacks with haste.

None of those spells are especially impressive if you dig into them.

Gravity Bow is a +2.5 dmg boost.
Aspect of the Falcon increases damage by 9% and grants a +1 attack bonus. Quite good for a first level spell but the attack bonus type is unfortunately not that uncommon. Inspire Courage is the first non-stacking buff I can think of.
Hunter's Howl must be cast during combat, and has a very easy saving throw.
Venomous Bolt competes with your uses of Instant Enemy.
Bow Spirit lacks certain important accuracy/damage increases. It wouldn't add your Favored Enemy bonus or any enhancement bonus from your bow.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
I don’t know what type of campaigns other people play in but in my campaigns there is usually more than 12 rounds of combat in a day. Most of the bosses I create have a lot of minions you need to get through before you even get near them. The Last dungeon they party was in there were about 10 fights before they reached the boss and most of them lasted at least a few rounds. Only 2 of them were serious but they still needed to get through the minor ones before they got to the boss. If there was an inquisitor and he used Bane and buffs for every encounter he would have had nothing left when he needed it. It was a fairly small dungeon so only took a couple of hours to get through.

Oh yeah, ten encounters would run an Inquisitor dry of Bane, no doubt. I do however think the Inquisitor could have had Heroism and even Divine Favor up for most if not all of those fights. Runestones of Power are very cheap at the levels we're talking about, so if I knew I could expect 11 fights in a day I'd stock up. The action economy, if you're not allowed to prebuff, can be solved with a teamwork feat path to let your companion hold the charge for the Divine Favor spell. So maybe one use of Bane at the start of the encounter to decide the outcome, then rely on Heroism/Divine Favor for the cleanup.

If it had been a Ranger however, how many of those encounters were filled with the same creature type? Of their primary FE? Because a Ranger would not be able to spam Instant Enemy for 11 encounters in a row.


Late to the game. But.

I loved my Feral Hunter with a Doublle Xbow. They used their multi summon wolves mainly for pack tactics style combat. Mainly they focused on tripping a lot of folks. They were there holding down emeies while my frontliners and I target down folks.
Would've worked far better without a double xbow but I was big on doing that, gravity bow and vital strike just for fun dice spamming.


This is a little off topic but gives some insight into where I am coming from. A high level party when fresh and at full resources can wade through just about anything. So how does a GM drain away resources without creating a situation where the party looks for ways to rest?

One way is to throw a large amount of low level threats at the party. The threats are not that difficult but are time consuming. If the party starts using expendable resources it speeds thing up significantly. It becomes a balancing act. How many resources can you afford to spend to overcome the minor threats? If the party uses too many expendable resources they don’t have them when the important fights come up. If done right the party gets to the final encounter with just enough resources to win. They are usually at full HP but have used up a lot of spells and other resources. It takes everything they have and it often seems like they are on the one roll away from defeat, but the pull out all the stops and wind the day. These are the encounters that people remember years later.

This means that a lot of times the party needs to be able to function while spending minimal expendable resources. If the inquisitor uses up all his rounds of bane cutting through the army to get to the boss they don’t have it when they really need it. This also gives the martial classes a chance to shine. So when I say the ranger is the better archer I am looking at the characters when they are not spending any expendable resources except maybe arrow.


While I have yet to play a session with eleven encounters in a day (six at the highest), it is clear that martials usually fare much better with low resources compared to spellcasters. The fighter doesn't have to count spell slots or plan ahead, which is the strength of the class. Dependability. But a higher level Inquisitor who spends a minimal amount of expendable resources isn't on the level of spending no resources. And this minimum would easily involve Heroism and a first level spell slot for each encounter.

In the example you spoke of earlier, when the party fought through a dungeon to reach the boss in a couple of hours, there was eleven fights (10+boss, right?). A level 12 Inquisitor with 18 Wisdom has 21 spell slots, with six of those being 1st-level. With ample use of 1st level spell slots, a couple of Runestones, and potentially some use of 2nd level spell slots when they realize it just doesn't stop, they would have Divine Favor for every single fight.

Heroism+Divine Favor puts the Inquisitor at the dmg output of the Ranger when they fight a +2 FE. (Assuming Fate's Favored it's 51 for the Inquisitor and 48 for the Ranger) That's their minimum. Better than the Ranger who isn't fighting their FE.

And then we haven't touched upon the 4 spell slots of 4th level spells, the 4 spell slots of 3rd level spells, and the rest of the 2nd level spell slots. Or the 12 rounds of Bane which can be sprinkled in whenever it is needed.

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Mysterious Stranger wrote:
This also gives the martial classes a chance to shine.

Some of them. I think the Inquisitor would fare better than the Barbarian, Bloodrager, Cavalier, Samurai, Paladin, Monk, Brawler, and the Ninja. They all have expendable resources that they wouldn't be able to recharge while slogging through ten fights.


In the last dungeon there were 8 minor encounters and 2 major encounters before the boss. Heroism was actually cast on the entire party by one of the other characters. In some of the encounters, other party member were providing party wide boosts. The minor encounters were with wraiths but the party is optimized to fight undead as it is the major theme of the campaign. The wraiths were actually not that big of a deal unless they got a lucky shot, they did manage to inflict a couple of temporary negative levels. The 2 major encounters did require the party to expend some resources. The party does not have an inquisitor so hard to say how that would have played out.

One thing that always I have noticed is that many classes that have boost don’t cast them on other party members unless they affect multiple targets. The character who cast heroism on the party had no other spells of 2nd level that were going to be useful so boosted everyone. That saved several of the characters from some a lot of damage.

Barbarians, Cavaliers, Samurai, and Unchained Monks are still full BAB classes with decent combat ability. The true strength of the paladin is not in the offense, but in his defenses. In a slugfest the paladin does just fine. When your weak save is Reflex and it is on par with most other characters who have good reflex saves spell you end up ignoring a lot of things. In the minor encounters you don’t need the same level of offense as in a serious encounter.


While the three options are fairly similar, it does depend somewhat on what the other PCs are, and whose shoes you otherwise need to fill. If there's no decent frontliner, either you or your AC will have to take up the slack, which means buffing the AC or being competent in melee (and maybe less so with bow and spells). Similarly, do you need to be a face? Or a scout?

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