Finnegan "Devilbow" Rook |
So that whoever set this up can come in and out without setting the trap off, I'm guessing. It does tell us that there is someone or something here, though.
Radomir Shax |
hey, i'm heading to the Big Island tomorrow and won't be back with reliable internet until Sunday. So, feel free to bot me.
Alexander Orlovsky |
Remember that you can update the loot list yourselves! If you want something from the loot, go ahead and take it. Othniel, I think you grabbed the cloak of resistance?
We've got some useful armor. I think Radomir should probably grab that masterwork chain shirt to switch out for his masterwork studded leather (which he still hasn't put on his sheet.) Not to mention the masterwork longbow that he should have that's still not on his sheet! :)
I don't know if anyone wants to grab that robe of bones either. Seems more like something to sell?
And finally, I can "hold on to" the banner if need be. I mean, it'll just be carried by the horses, but I can throw it on my sheet so we remember to use it. Or we can put it on the mule if we think we'll collectively remember it easier that way.
The Winds of Fate |
A couple things:
Radomir: I don't think you've been keeping track of your loot. You've mentioned a few things that have been taken off the loot list, but haven't made it to your character sheet yet. It's probably a pain to update during the times you've only had access with your phone, but you don't want to risk forgetting what you've taken and thus losing gear.
Also, I think your hp should be at 44 instead of 48 unless I've missed a hp roll.
Othniel: I do not think that you can actually sneak attack the tree from range since you cannot flank it from range, it knows that you are there, and it is not denied it's dex bonus currently. If I'm missing a rule or ability you have, feel free to let me know.
The Winds of Fate |
You are good with the 25 feet, but sneak attack also specified that the Rogue must be one of the people flanking the target.
The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime his target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks his target.
Alexander Orlovsky |
Yeah, I've seen a lot of people make that same mistake. It's weird because one condition is based on the target's condition (target is denied a DEX bonus) and the other is based on the character's condition (the rogue must be flanking the target). And sadly, you can't flank unless you're threatening in melee.
Finnegan "Devilbow" Rook |
There are a few Teamwork feats that give a ranged character the ability to get a bonus on attack rolls (Coordinated Shot, Enfilading Fire) when an ally threatens that opponent, but do not count as allowing the character to benefit from flanking.
There are a couple of 3rd-party options that allow flanking. There's a feat called Ranged Flank, although it has steep prerequisites, and a rogue talent called Melee Archer that allows you to flank with ranged weapons, a category which typically includes weapon-like spells (like acid splash).
Those would purely be up to the GM's discretion whether they're allowed or not. I don't see either as particularly powerful, but the final decision is Winds of Fate's.
Othniel Laurentius |
That's a really bizarre wording, then. Why require thirty feet if you have to threaten? I'd think if "you have to threaten" was the rule, being within thirty feet would be a given. I mean, unless we're talking about a blue whale with Rogue levels, no one's got a reach anywhere close to thirty feet. Oh well. Change of plans.
Finnegan "Devilbow" Rook |
The "within thirty feet" rule, I think, pertains more to sneak attacking with a ranged weapon from surprise or if an opponent is flat-footed for some reason (by a status effect or similar). That's how I've always interpreted it.
The rules for sneak attack are one of the things that cause a lot of people to consider ranged rogues to be horribly underpowered. They basically need to be in melee to deal sneak attack most of the time, and if they aren't, the opponent needs to be made flat-footed to their attacks somehow.
Alexander Orlovsky |
Oh, because there are plenty of ways to deny a DEX bonus. Surprise being the easiest (though most fleeting). It means you can open up with a sneak attack at range, enter melee and keep flanking.
It's not optimal for most characters, but this fight is a decent example of when you might do that. If you go before Radomir and I, you'd probably prefer that we take the AoO's entering melee with the tree than you. So stay at 25ft and fire off an acid splash while it's "surprised" or before it's first initiative goes off (both of which deny it a DEX bonus). After that, move into flanking position.
But, there's only one way to flank and that's to threaten from the opposite square as another person threatening.
Edit: As Finn says, ranged rogues are difficult to pull off (and really just end up not being worth it.) But, you can do a sneak attack at range and move into melee when you get surprise. Normally, Alexander will probably use invisibility on Othniel for that reason, but in this case he was aware that Scythe Trees have Blindsense (in which case invisibility isn't so useful.)
Othniel Laurentius |
So, because I'm one of those odd people that actual likes Prestige Classes, I'm looking at diversifying Othniel's skillset eventually. Shadowdancer and Arcane Trickster both jump out at me immediately. Assassin also makes some sense. Any thoughts on those options, both in terms of party/Kingdom need and mechanical strength? Other options that haven't occurred to me?
Alexander Orlovsky |
I cannot advise against prestige classes strongly enough. Paizo has done a really good job making class progression fun all the way up. Some character concepts benefit from splitting between main classes a bit (dips or full multiclass), but there are almost no useful prestige classes. Archetypes? Sure. But PrCs are almost universally awful because they're built with the old design intent in mind.
The key, as for most things in Pathfinder, is to look past what Paizo *claims* you'll be effective at and look at what you're actually gaining and losing.
Shadowdancer: Sounds super-cool!
Problems: You already have Evasion and Uncanny Dodge (though this will get you Improved Uncanny Dodge slightly earlier.) Hide in Plain sight and Darkvision are really good but that's all you're getting out of the first two levels. You're also taking a hit to your BAB, which is already low from being a non-full BAB class whose main purpose is hitting things. The more you invest in the class, the later you end up getting advanced rogue talents (which are awesome!) more rogue's edges. The loss of Danger Sense and more Finesse training isn't all that big a deal. So after the first two levels, you're looking at delaying getting the really cool high level rogue stuff for being able to jump shadows and summon a shadow. The summoned shadow is decent, but not amazing. And by the time you can summon it, our enemies are going to have the resources needed to deal with it. And negative levels for it dying is bad given that you're going to use it to fight stuff. Finally, the feat tax to enter is...prohibitive. Combat Reflexes *and* Mobility? Mobility is essentially useless for you and while Combat Reflexes isn't technically useless, it's just not that good. If these weren't prerequisites then I'd say dipping for HiPS and Darkvision would actually be okay. You're delaying the awesome advanced rogue talents, but you at least get some cool toys out of it. Given that you can get Darkvision otherwise, it just doesn't seem worth it.
Assassin: Rogues are already assassin!
Problems: This PrC is just bad. Poison use is awful. They're super-expensive and have terribly low DCs. Speaking of low DCs, Death Strike. Wow. It's going to start at DC13 and go up by one for every extra level of Assassin you pick up. And it really just keeps getting worse. It's really good at one-shot-killing low level enemies. So, given that, pick up Leadership and get a cohort to be an assassin and send him after the civilian CR 3 people that you want dead. You'll be killing those guys with straight damage anyway.
Arcane Trickster: Sounds cool, but is it?
Problems: You know when I said dipping in Shadowdancer would hurt your BAB. Holy Crap, this will be bad. Not only will the casting class that you pick hurt, you the PrC itself is going to hit it *again*. The problem with Arcane Trickster is that you (again) push off the really cool rogue stuff while not gaining much. Whatever casting class you pick up you won't be all that great at. Offensive spells rely on DCs being high which yours won't be. It just gets worse from there.
The bottom line is that base rogues are better assassins than Assassins. They're better arcane tricksters than the Trickster. Shadowdancers get some cool tricks, but nothing you can't replace and what they *lose* is cooler in a lot of cases and the price to enter is high.
The Winds of Fate |
Though I usually like the fluff and the concepts behind the PrC, very few seem to actually be mechanically worth taking for what you lose.
Also, you may all level up to 5. As usual, you may either roll or take average for your hit points.
Please be sure to update your hit points and the rest of your statline under your name.
Radomir, please double check you hit points before you add anything else to them, they seem to be off a little.
And a reminder to write down onto your character sheet anything that you take off of the loot list as soon as you take it. We don't want to valuable loot/gear if anyone forgets what they took because they waited too long.
Alexander Orlovsky |
Hit Points: 1d8 ⇒ 7
Class Abilities: Inspire Courage +2, Lore Master 1/day
Animal Speaker: Animal Friend (wolves), Speak with Animals at-will with birds and wolves.
Spells per Day: +1 1st-level, +1 2nd-level
Spells Known: Mirror Image
Feat: Combat Expertise
Skills:
Acrobatics +1
Knowledge (Arcana) +1
Knowledge (Planes) +!
Perform (Oratory) +1
Perform (Percussion) +1
Ride +1
Spellcraft +1
Stealth +1
Use Magic Device +1
Alexander Orlovsky |
Unidentified Magical Equipment:
Whip
Leather Armor
Breastplate
Ring
We also don't know how much gold the last two rings we found are worth.
As the GM said, remember to update your character sheet with things you take. You can also either update the loot list or just post here and someone else will update it.
For example:
We have a cloak of resistance on the loot sheet that should be on Othniel's sheet.
We have three CMW potions that people should take.
Radomir should have masterwork studded leather armor, a masterwork longbow (STR +2), and a CMW potion already. You should also probably put the +1 glaive in your gear section.
We also now have a mithril chain shirt and a masterwork chain shirt. Seems like Radomir could upgrade his mw studded leather to either one of those.
There's a bejeweled masterwork shortsword on the loot list Othniel!
Andrea1 |
HP 4+1 Con +1 Tougness=6
Skills +1 Heal/Bluff/Diplomacy/Perception/Know-Religion
Feat:Power attack (-1/+2)
Channel Energy 3d6
+1 Third level spell
Thinking of going Longspear and then getting Lunge so I can say poke from behind Radomir
Finnegan "Devilbow" Rook |
Level up:
8 HP, total 35.
Class Abilities: 2nd studied target, studied target +2
Feats: Rapid Shot
Skills:
+1 Acrobatics
+1 Bluff
+1 Intimidate
+1 Knowledge (dungeoneering)
+1 Knowledge (local)
+1 Perception
+1 Ride
+1 Sense Motive
+1 Stealth
+1 Survival
Radomir Shax |
also, was thinking of buying a shield for when he's on horseback and charging, where do i find his cash on hand on the spreadsheet? I haven't been able to figure this out so I haven't been tracking. If I was supposed to and it's Impossible to re-calculate, I'll suffer that. And just start doing it now.
Radomir Shax |
Also, I swapped out my order and archetype. Decided on ennead star for order and Circuit judge for archetype. I keep forgetting I have tactician, and they're far
TOo situational to Ben useful
Radomir Shax |
And, i THINK i've updated Radomir. I'm not going to bother with the change list, because I pretty much rebuilt him from the ground up, since I borked some stuff pretty bad leveling him awhile ago. Also, i retooled his order and class.
Alexander Orlovsky |
Okay so, going back through the ooc thread here's all the equipment Radomir should have:
Masterwork Studded Leather Armor
Masterwork Composite Longbow (STR+2)
Cure Moderate Wounds Potion
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Apr 9 - 2000gp
Sep 4 -2000gp
I couldn't find any other place where we divvied up loot. I did find a reference to you wanting to make your breastplate and bardiche magical, but given you never spent the gold or updated your sheet, it should be safe to say that gold was never spent. ;)
I'd suggest turning in the masterwork studded leather for the masterwork chain shirt on the loot list.
Radomir Shax |
there's a breastplate +1 that i claimed. from the loot list. Thanks for going through that. I'll probably spend more gold on stuff. laters. I also got a glaive +1 from something
(although buying full plate might be a better bet than the breastplate now that i actually has the cash)
Radomir Shax |
Ahh, ok. The studded leather is for sleeping in because of that one time we were caught with our knickers down (literally) so..i'll keep that. but the other non magical stuff that's redundant i'll get rid of.
and, hopefully, afford a set of full plate +1 and i FINALLY won't be so squishy!