Heralding the Coming of the Age of Worms (Inactive)

Game Master Fanguar

Markus, The loot list says we already have those goggles you wanted. Did you claim them?

Didn't "claim" them, but obligated to as the rogue disable device guy. Almost unconscionable not to.

We're all to end up with 10.5K, we can RP it hither and yon. Because of how we ended up here, it's fine.

But, we shouldn't keep doing it in future. If a useful item pops up, it pops up... It's part of the surprise and delight of the game. +1 silver shock shortspear, 8300gp. Having it vanish because of some loot accounting equity exercise is... lame.

I'd feel the same if I wasn't the guy using it.

We can reboot, hand wave, that's fine. But let's not keep doing it.

I agree with that as well. Resetting sort of makes us sell cool items like the spear. Also cheapens finding cool things like the rod of lesser extend because if I keep it I am in a way buying it.

I have no intension of continuing to doing it.

Alternatively, I can post all the actual loot from the two adventures (basically just removing all the extra stuff I've added) and we can live with that. I't's more work for me, but if you want to run the adventure as written, I can do that.

Equipment that I've added includes Markus' spear and Sverrir's warhammer, so the spear goes either way.

Also, Markus you are a lore warden you only have light armour. I think you are the least tanky member of the party. I don't think anyone expects you to tank. I would be more worried about that Will save myself....

I'm always on the side of "less work for the DM".

Having never read/played the AP, I have no clue what's extra. The spear fit well with the Air Lord. Very cool, good add-in. I'll miss it.

Also, wasn't asking for an alternative method, just expressing how it felt.

Maybe tank wasn't the greatest choice of words. Frontliner? He gets his hands dirty, up close and personal. Besides the shortspear, thrown at a fleeing enemy I don't remember him using range, besides "reach".

It's all cool.

To be clear, I am fine with the equipment reset and consider it generous. I just wanted to point out the down side.

Markus, you are a striker, by 4th edition terms. You pack a good punch (Strenght and sneak attack) and have a few tricks but your AC and health will never match a true tank. Your dip into Rogue makes you more of a striker too.

I should have my gear and spell book updated sometime tonight or tomorrow at the latest.

I guess I need to count scribing costs in with my 10.5k?

Oh, and since Lucid has had Craft Wondrous since level 3, does it make sense to bump the cap slightly up? He has craft cloaks of resistance, etc. Thoughts?

I do not mean to bend the rules but crafting can save a lot of money, which is why he took that feat in place of so many other that he wanted. The reset costs the group money. As a minimum Lucid had planned to craft a headband of Int for himself. That alone saves 2K.

Not counting the wand of cure light wounds towards my total and getting two potions of enlarge person and upgrading my holy symbol to silver will put me just under 100 gp left with my existing equipment.

Hmm. Well someone has to claim that wand as part of their wealth....

Lucid is sitting at 7100 gold value. But he will have to sell something he has to afford his headband of vast Int +2 to fit under the 10.5K cap.

One way to do this would be to count craft items at their crafting costs. Lucid actually now has two feats tied up in crafting. Lets discuss.

Its at less than half charged so 360 gold or so. Split into 4 that would be 90ish each. I could just about cover that.

I'm hurt. But, still tanking!

@DM Fanguar - Question about magic items, class features and re-flavoring. Sash of the War Champion states that it affects Bravery & Armor Training, two features that are swapped out for Lore Warden. Would you allow the benefit/mechanic to apply to the Lore Warden class features?

I'm presuming balance and equity is built into the archetype.

Text from item:

"This bright red strip of cloth, stitched with images of a cheering crowd throwing garlands toward a chariot, fits across the wearer's shoulders and then diagonally down his chest to reach his opposite hip.

The wearer treats his fighter level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of the armor training and bravery class features."

For Lore Warden:

Expertise (Ex)

At 2nd level, a lore warden gains Combat Expertise as a bonus feat, even if he would not normally qualify for this feat.

This ability replaces bravery 1.

Maneuver Mastery (Ex)

At 3rd level, a lore warden gains a +2 bonus on all CMB checks and to his CMD. This bonus increases to +4 at 7th level, +6 at 11th level, and +8 at 15th level.

This ability replaces armor training 1.

Know Thy Enemy (Ex)

At 7th level, a lore warden can take a standard action to study a specific target in sight. He must make a Knowledge check to determine the target’s abilities and weaknesses as part of this standard action. If successful, the lore warden not only notes the appropriate abilities and weaknesses, as detailed under the Knowledge skill, but also gains a +2 competence bonus on all attack rolls and weapon damage rolls made against that enemy. Note that this bonus on attack and damage rolls applies only to that specific creature. This bonus lasts for the duration of an encounter, or until the lore warden attempts a new Knowledge check to use this ability on a different target.

This ability replaces armor training 2.

Effectively (through item) a 3rd level Fighter gets early access to Bravery 2 and Armor Training 2.

In the case of a Lore Warden Bravery 2 (as +1) and Armor Training 2 (better Maneuver Mastery and Know thy Enemy).

Helps with magic item equity for archetypes (class feature based, screws them a bit).

Thanks for the time and consideration.

Just realized something.

When we had slowed down and stopped using maps, I'd swapped Combat Reflexes out for Improved Trip! That explains my genuine surprise seeing it on my character sheet. I'd never actually intended for Markus to be a Trip build.

But, I actually placed my 4th Level attribute pip into Wisdom. I think I need to switch that to Intelligence for Int 13, to qualify for Improved Trip. Once again, since I originally never intended a Trip build, Int was left at 12.

It was a messy time, as I'd also swapped out Knife Master archetype for Scout when Pavo left, to cover traps.

So, everyone OK with moving a point from Wis to Int, to square up?

Sounds reasonable

For some reason I thought I answered this...

@Markus: All of those things are fine. I am super fine with re-training and rebuilding and the like and in between adventures is the perfect time for it.

@Lucid: Thoughts on my PM reply?

I'm sure that Sverrir is just super busy in RL, but I'll give another couple days for people to finalize builds/re-builds and gear and then dive into the next part of the AP where the true threat will be revealed.

My only thought is that I am not sure what we decided. Yes I can "retrain", dropping Craft Wondrous at 3rd and pick it up at 5th as my Wizard feat. Got that. But can I craft a stat bump item for 2K and count it as 2k towards my character wealth? Or must I count it as 4K?

I fully understand the issues here. On one side you need to keep some wealth balance in the game. On the other I have feat(s) invested that allow me to gain magic items at half the cost IF time is allowed. Its complex.

In a recent home game our DM decided thus. Oh, and its important to note that we were resetting wealth to the PC cap at every level.

First, if you found some gear and you kept it you counted it at the sale price (or half the list price) towards your gold total.

Second if you crafted an item, you counted it as at the sale price (or half the list price) towards your gold total.

If you crafted the item for someone else in the party you counted it at 3/4 price.

Anything you bought counted at full price.

I am not recommending we adopt this. I am just pointing out how one DM decided it should work. Thoughts? I was not a crafter in this game BTW. I played an archer ranger.

Going forward, I have no problem with crafting being used as written. No need for house rules.

I guess my argument is that crafting gives a 1:1 wealth ratio with found gear and a 2:1 ratio for found gold (which is a much less common treasure). So the crafting benefit really comes down to how much coin was found. 10.5k WBL shouldn't magically become 21k with crafting feats. Though given enough time crafting is basically infinite gold, which really begs the question why would any wizard adventure past level 3, (or level 1 really). I totally get why PFS eliminates all crafting feats.

Anyways, just for the sake of argument, lets say that 5k of the treasure is pure coin, which is probably pretty close to the actual number. So you can use that 5k for craft wondrous. (effectively bumping WBL by an extra 5k)

I like it. Simple and easy to implement. :)

Lucid has three weeks to craft. That is 21 days. I know he is using 4 days for himself for sure. Who else wants a wondrous item crafted?

Sorry gents was indeed busy in RL - my boss is off and muggings here is stepping up!

Sver wouldn't say no to a Belt of Giant Strength (+2) if you have the time wee man :)

Think the LOOT sheet is mostly done - can everyone just have a final look over and if all is good I'll delete the items we're trading/selling.

Cheers

How are you for item Caster Level and resulting DCs?

Spellcraft is maxed at +12. I could pick up Crafter's Fortune for a +5 if our DM agrees that it works on crafting magic items. I have had DMs say it does not, but I believe is should. Most have allowed it but I see both sides. The working is simple "gain a +5 luck bonus on your next Craft skill check." The feat is Craft Wondrous Items, so any skill check to make them are craft checks, right? Or wrong?

Well by RAW crafter's fortune doesn't work with spell craft, but I'll house rule that it does.

For magical items you can use a spellcraft check or an applicable craft or profession check eg: for the belt of giant's strength you could use a craft(belts) or profession(leather worker)instead of spellcraft.

That makes sense. I think the +12 to spellcraft will trump any other crafting skills Lucid might have now, or in the future. So taking 10 gives him a 22 so he can easily make the DC18 for the Belt or Giant Strength and other stat boost items.

@Lucid,

Requests:

1) Can you create "Longstrider Boots", just simple boots w/Longstrider - Continuous effect.

2000gp value, 1000gp cost. And, if you increase speed of crafting w/+5 DC, they can be made in 1 day.

I have a few other possible requests... But, don't want to monopolize your crafting time. :)

No custom items!! If it isn't in the PRD you can't make it.

LOL... OK, Boss!

OK, looks like this... 10,364 gp total (with crafting discount)

• 2000 gp sash of the war champion (crafted DC 19, missing requirement, 4 days)
  
• 2500 gp googles minute seeing
  
• 1000 gp cloak of protection +1
  
• 1250 gp chain shirt +1
  
• 2314 gp fauchard +1
  
• 1000 gp boots of the cat
  
• 50 gp pot ant haul (lvl 1)
  
• 100 gp pot prot from evil x2 (lvl 1)
  
• 100 gp pot shield x2 (lvl 1)
  
• 50 gp pot stabalize x2 (lvl 0)

@DM/@Lucid - all good?

Fighter-y, rogue-y goodness.

Oh, we're chipping for a wand of cure light wounds?

New gameplay post up.

Get you loot updated.

Get at least one wand of CLW, since you don't have any other healing...

Let's chip in for 2 of them!

I'd be inclined to shoot for two - but remember we've a bunch of CLW potions unclaimed in the LOOT? (4 -Sver is happy to grab any unwanted...)

Sverrir's Swag

Items in Black are previously gained/selected from LOOT
Items in Blue are newly acquired or upgrades of current item.

Suit of +1 Chainmail (650gp)
Restful Armour Special Ability added to Chainmail armour (+4500gp)
2 off Potion of Cure Light Wounds (25gp each)
+1 Warhammer (1160gp)
Furious Weapon Special Ability added to Warhammer (+2000gp)
Amulet of Natural Armour +1 (1000p)
Potion of Blur (150p)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (500gp)
Upgrade of Cloak of Resistance to +2 (+1500gp)
Belt of Giant Strength +2 (2000p)

Total outlay above current treasure: 10000p

I believe we're resetting wealth by level meaning current goes away... As if you were creating a 5th level character. 10500gp.

Additionally, Lucid can help craft woundrous items. Meaning a discount.

So, potions need to come out of our total.

Ahhh okay. Am getting a tad lost in all the LOOT vs wealth discussions...

So Sver has 10,500 to spend... will likely have to rejig the above then as Lucid can't craft Weapons and Armour hence why I paid top whack for their upgrades. The new Belt and Cloak upgrade did take into account Lucid's discount. Potions are a marginal cost (have listed them as half) as I grabbed from the stash.

Will likely drop the Restful armour option as it'll push my wealth over the limit.

Total without the Armour upgrade sits at 9010p.

Sver will also be shelling out for the following:

Bandolier (for his potions) 5sp
5 Bottles of Oldlaw Whiskey 100p total

Remainder he'll bank for future swag and rejuvenating his family mining operation...

I love ya, but more bad news...

I believe that Lucid cannot craft a +2 cloak, as it requires him to be 6th level. Bonus x3.

Arrrgggghhhhhhh!

Ah well - more coin saved for when he can lol. Same will likely be for the Belt of Giant Strength??

He's good for the belt!

...

Anyways, just for the sake of argument, lets say that 5k of the treasure is pure coin, which is probably pretty close to the actual number. So you can use that 5k for craft wondrous. (effectively bumping WBL by an extra 5k)

@DM Fanguar - Does that mean we have 15.5K for simplicity, this once?

Then we go RAW?

OK, looks like this... 10,364 gp total (with crafting discount)

• 2000 gp sash of the war champion (crafted DC 19, missing requirement, 4 days)
  
• 2500 gp googles minute seeing
  
• 1000 gp cloak of protection +1
  
• 1250 gp chain shirt +1
  
• 2314 gp fauchard +1
  
• 1000 gp boots of the cat
  
• 50 gp pot ant haul (lvl 1)
  
• 100 gp pot prot from evil x2 (lvl 1)
  
• 100 gp pot shield x2 (lvl 1)
  
• 50 gp pot stabalize x2 (lvl 0)

@DM/@Lucid - all good?

Fighter-y, rogue-y goodness.

Lucid can make the Sash of the War Champion for you, but will ask you buy him a scroll of Cat's Grace, as he does not know that spell, if not knowing it will make the casting harder. I am not sure since he already cannot know Remove Fear.

I do not think you buy potions of Shield. I recall that potions cannot be made of personal spells.

GM Fanguar wrote:

...

Anyways, just for the sake of argument, lets say that 5k of the treasure is pure coin, which is probably pretty close to the actual number. So you can use that 5k for craft wondrous. (effectively bumping WBL by an extra 5k)

@DM Fanguar - Does that mean we have 15.5K for simplicity, this once?

Then we go RAW?

I would say no. It means you have up to 15.5K, based on how much gets crafted. I think we are fine on crafting days though. If Lucid is not having to craft with a missing requirement then he can fast craft.

I am still not totally sure about how to count the value of extra spells in Lucid's spell book. There is scribing cost. And there is access. From one point of view, access is often free as wizards trade spells with other wizards. And the spell books we have found have all been sold. The other point of view says I need to pay both scribing cost and and some access cost for each spell Lucid has in his book over the free ones he gets when he levels.

Thoughts?

+5K WBL for the whole party, not per person. You guys have not found 20,000gp. Let's not get crazy here.

Alustan would let you copy for free. I don't think there is a need for a scribing cost. I think that 'buying' spells would be much harder for higher level spells, since high level wizards are much rarer, so we may need to revisit this discussion later.

Good point, I wasn't thinking straight.

Markus drops the cloak and chips in for the wand CLW.

So our WBL = 10500 + 1250? 11750?

If all 5000 is used for crafting and all crafting is shared equally then yes.

Up to Lucid!

A wonderful and happy Thanksgiving to all who partake of the roast avian beast! Unless your vegetarian, in which case you may partake of tofu-key! Not so avian, but we get the jist!

If lucid makes himself a stat boost item he has 3k left and will make whatever the party asks him to make in that time.

Cool with me, 1000 each then for the rest?

You don't really need to have a completed gear list to post in the gameplay thread.

Just saying.

Ahem. Point taken chief.

Sorry guys slammed at work - hoping things calm down by Saturday - will have a detailed and deserving post up over the weekend GM-Fang - Scot's honour! :)

Ditto. Just busy. Its that time of year. Plus I know we need to finalize the equipment thing before moving forward. Working on that now.

OK, looks like this... 10,314 gp total (with 1000gp crafting discount)

3000 gp sash of the war champion (crafted DC 19, missing requirement, 4 days)
2500 gp googles minute seeing
1000 gp cloak of protection +1
1250 gp chain shirt +1
2314 gp fauchard +1
1000 gp boots of the cat
100 gp pot prot from evil x2 (lvl 1)
100 gp pot shield of faith x2 (lvl 1)
188 gp wand of clw
======================================
11,452 Wealth by Level

48 gp for mundane gear.

We cool?