Hm, interesting! I think Phineas would also possibly be interested in the spymaster slot, but you're right he would fit as strategist or recruiter as well as needed. He mostly wouldn't feel comfortable in the Partisan slot, the rest he would be willing to do as needed.
I'm going to be difficult (and Phineas will be making an in-character suggestion to this effect when the time comes, which we can feel free to argue around and ignore if we want to go with one of the other paths) and suggest that we go with the Secrecy focus!
The reasoning is actually similar to Isabel's last point, in that half our group (including Phineas) is publicly known. Phineas would greatly prefer an approach where we focus more on keeping our identities and the activities of the Silver Ravens a secret, such that Barzillai has trouble identifying who to strike against. We would end up growing the rebellion less quickly that way as compared to with a Loyalty focus, but with a much tighter degree of confidence on who we let in on our secret to keep our public personas and the movement safe.
Mechanically speaking, I really like the Saboteur group; the ability is powerful, but has a hefty penalty for failure. If we can get to the point where they can always hit the DC 20 check, the group will just give us +2 to everything else we try and do while keeping our notoriety more or less permanently pinned at 0. I also really like the idea of planning an ever-escalating series of misfortunes to befall Thrune's government; I suspect there will be a lot of fun roleplaying out what, exactly, we're sabotaging. There are interesting possibilities with security as well, trying to drop the danger level to 0 then triggering events with a double roll effect. I think I like loyalty the least from a mechanics perspective, but it does have resiliency going for it.
Also, here are my takes on the general idea of each of the focuses; does anyone feel differently about how these would work out?
Loyalty: More of an attempt to lead an open political movement, where the existence of the silver ravens is more widely known. We would persuade ever increasing numbers of the populace to join our opposition, using political maneuvering to build support off of whatever actions Thrune takes. Eventually, we would build up overwhelming support, preventing Barzillai from being able to take effective actions against us until he is forced out by the overwhelming hostility of the populace.
Security: Armed Rebels, where we more or less create a rival political structure to maintain a more just version of law and order and take the fight directly to Thrune and his lackeys. We would act in a more Robin Hood style, striking against Thrune and inspiring the city through action until we are able to strike a decisive blow against Thrune.
Secrecy: A secret society that Thrune knows exists, but can't find and can't prove. We infiltrate his government, learning his plans and manipulating his lackeys to create chaos, confusion and disfunction that grows and grows over time. Any attempts to strike against us find nothing but smoke as Barzillai fights a phantom, his every effort foiled until his goverment collapses and we strike against him in his moment of vulnerability.
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So...
Demagogue: Varian/Isabel?
Partisan: Avrora
Recruiter: ?
Sentinel: Darian
Spymaster: Phineas/Galen? (I went to look at stats this time - Galen and Phineas both out Int Isabel so they're better in this role)
Strategist: Isabel/Phineas? (The more analytical, big picture people)
If we were going to min max I think the best options would be
Demagogue: Isabel
Recruiter: Varian
Spymaster: Galen
Strategist: Phineas
This is trying to take into account personality too, but Isabel offers +3 Cha as demagogue, Galen gives +3 Int in spymaster and I see Phineas as more of a big-picture/strategy guy. Please shout out if I'm way off base :)
As to Loyalty vs. Secrecy. I think the optimum is somewhere between the two. We want everyone to know about the Silver Ravens, and the more loyal they are then the better the rebellion becomes and the harder it is for Thrune to achieve anything. However as leaders we need a degree of deniability. I'll bring up the Masked Personas rules from Inner Sea Intrigue here, which would allow us mini versions of the Vigilante's dual identities. Find them here. which could go some way to solving the security risk... Isabel will suggest something similar when the discussion comes up. :)
I am kinda torn in the route we take. Darian, obviously, feels secrecy is a hugely important aspect of this rebellion for obvious reasons. But he also knows that they need political clout and support from all levels of Kintargo's populace.
Do we HAVE to choose just one path, or can we blend the two? If we have to go with just 1, my vote is secrecy. Keep ourselves safe first, so we can help others later. I like the Masked Persona idea, and may have to find me a nice reference image of my own "Hero" disguise.
Edit: Did some looking around, and am currently leaning towards either...
A) Image 1
or
B) Image 2
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Do we HAVE to choose just one path, or can we blend the two? If we have to go with just 1, my vote is secrecy. Keep ourselves safe first, so we can help others later. I like the Masked Persona idea, and may have to find me a nice reference image of my own "Hero" disguise.
It works a bit like Fort/Ref/Will saves. We pick a focus, our 'good' save and the other two become our 'weak' saves. So yeah, we have to choose one mechanically, but that doesn't mean that our plan can't merge the approaches.
While Galen doesn't feel like a Spymaster role at this point, that's not to say I can't RP him to get there, particularly after a bit of in-game time passes. I haven't made the transition for him yet other than his commitment to see this through (as it's been just a day of in-game time since the Aria Park incident right), but the notion that he could blend into that role is pretty interesting.
I like Secrecy from the RP perspective of how these characters have developed and the kind of group we are, but I understand that for the Rebellion mechanics we may be more optimal for Loyalty, so I'm not opposed to choosing that from a crunch perspective.
I actually don't really like Loyalty from a mechanical perspective, although I think Phineas would prefer it over Security from a roleplaying one. It seems ok, but is a little bit like the constitution score on a character; it doesn't really let you proactively do things, just increases your ability to take punishment. All of the team recruitment and ability to control how often and how bad the events that occur are for us will key off our secrecy and security scores. Loyalty will mostly be important to control how fast the rebellion can grow and to mitigate the negative side effects of some of the events. Just like most characters don't max constitution as their highest score, I don't think Loyalty is mechanically optimal.
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I didn't consider the mechanics at all when I said Loyalty - I was thinking that, given the kind of characters we are, and what our motivation seems to be, we'd simply be good at trying to have and build popular momentum. Hence loyalty. I'm not going to stamp my foot and say "not secrecy" though if people prefer it...
Shall we vote just to keep it clear?
I'm going Loyalty because I'm putting fluff before mechanics.
Loyalty - 1
Secrecy - 0
Security - 0
If we are voting, my vote goes to Secrecy again for fluff reasons. The mechanics will sort itself out in the end.
So:
Loyalty - 1
Secrecy - 1
Security - 0
Sure! My vote goes to Secrecy.
Loyalty - 1
Secrecy - 2
Security - 0
Hey all, my laptop is back and so am I! I've followed the events in the Gameplay Thread but I'm lagging a little behind on the current topic of the discussion about our group of rebels. I will read everything needed tomorrow, since here is evening already, and then I will post my opinions ;)
Galen lets Grimple vote for him...and he votes Seecritzzzz...see!
Since it's clearly going to lose anyway I'm going to vote for Security!
Hey guys, I've taken a look at the rules for managing the Silver Ravens and the rebellion sheet. What follows is what I think about it, but keep in mind that I always prefer flavor over mechanical functionality.
I think that we should create a balanced group. Having to choose one focus, I would say Loyalty. But we should try to balance things using teams and other bonuses.
As for Varian's role in the group, I'd like to go with Demagogue. I know that, mechanically speaking, he's not the best one for the role, but Demagogue is just what Varian is according to his background and his character concept.
I am going to let you all continue to work this out up until the moment it becomes necessary to decide a final answer. ;-D
Regarding the Masked Personas...interesting. I don't really see why we couldn't use that. I do recall Crustypeanut making a comment about offering you some portion of Vigilante as UI came out when you were first getting started. I will look at that and see if it conflicts with anything in the campaign ahead.
Anyone else feel like it has been...like...a year since we leveled up? Lol
Side note: didn't we JUST come out of a dungeon? I suggest we take an in-game evening at least to recover spell slots and daily abilities.
I'll take a look at what kind of XP totals you should have. I haven't really calculated what you would have earned for your time playing pre-me.
Okay so secrecy it is. We'll have fun, regardless! Any input on the remaining party roles?
Phineas would be happy in the Spymaster or Strategist roles. Galen, if you wanted to transition into to a spymaster role over time, Phineas would be more than happy to start as the spymaster and transition out to a more big-picture position (or recruitment, as needed) as time progresses and Galen both shows talent and interest for the role. I think that makes a lot of sense, actually, given how the characters are set now.
Guess that leaves Isabel as a recruiter... which I find a bit difficult given her background, which is much more about watching people than anything else. I can try though.
I don't know if that could help, but perhaps we could try to put up a roleplaying scene in which Varian and Isable talk about this particular topic. Varian would suggest her that if you want to do the good of the people, you can't limit yourself to watch them. That could motivate Isabel's attempt at being a recruiter, at least from a roleplaying point of view. As long as flavor is concerned, though, I could see Varian and Isabel frequently exchanging their roles. Sometimes Varian will give inspirational speeches to the crowd, but sometimes he will leave the stage for Isabel while he recruits more people for the cause of the Silver Ravens. Do you think that this would help?
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Guess that leaves Isabel as a recruiter... which I find a bit difficult given her background, which is much more about watching people than anything else. I can try though.I don't know if that could help, but perhaps we could try to put up a roleplaying scene in which Varian and Isabel talk about this particular topic. Varian would suggest her that if you want to do the good of the people, you can't limit yourself to watch them. That could motivate Isabel's attempt at being a recruiter, at least from a roleplaying point of view. As long as flavor is concerned, though, I could see Varian and Isabel frequently exchanging their roles. Sometimes Varian will give inspirational speeches to the crowd, but sometimes he will leave the stage for Isabel while he recruits more people for the cause of the Silver Ravens. Do you think that this would help?
Perhaps if we split by target audience? Isabel has good, subtle entree into the aristocrats, but not an awful lot of understanding of what makes the normal people tick. Varian is dead, so he can't talk to the aristocrats, but he's good with the 'common folk'. Maybe we can do something around that.
About loot...do we have a current list being maintained anywhere?
I left your original link in the header, but all of us only have view access. I can try and get something put together when I have time unless one of you feels ambitious.
You guys can save a copy of mine to your own drives and use the new copy. Thats why I made sure you had view access to it.
Sorry for my recent absence, I had an unexpectedly hellacious stretch at work and today is the first time I've had to even hop on the boards. Getting caught up now.
Lurking on roll20 for a bit.
I'm really glad you all took some time to roleplay and add some more facets to your characters. I admit I have been quiet because I was in fact hoping to see some of that. I plan to get things rolling once more, so expect some posts from me later today.
Pin: I plan to check in with Darian's parents at the Aulamaxa estate once this scene with Isabel is over. Do you plan on any significant interaction there or can I just glaze over it?
I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're asking, but I just jumped on Roll20 if you want to chat about it.
Man...Isabel's a stout sleeper...lol
Pulled a back muscle, so currently being seen by a physician. I may get some more posted today, but might be delayed until tomorrow if the meds end up being sleepy time.
@Darian: I owe you some posts. I didn't get to the research I planned on the Aulamaxa Family for reasons related to my situation and family stuff, but I will try to get that finished soon.
It's cool. We have it spoilers so we can keep it as "in the past" if need be.
@Avora: I'm not clear if you're wanting me to add some significance to the Harrow draw or not, or leave it to you for pure RP purposes. Let me know.
No Pin, this is just flavor text on my end, thanks :).
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@Galen: Regarding the Harrow deck, I've decided the reason it's not an actual Harrow deck is because it's missing cards, but the cards you do have are in fact actual Harrow cards. Future draws are possible, but I will add an element for the missing cards. If you want this to become a more integrated part of your character given his background, I have some ideas brewing...
Anyway...
How to draw Harrow using dice (or RNGs!):
1d6 for the suit:
- 1 = hammers
- 2 = keys
- 3 = shields
- 4 = books
- 5 = stars
- 6 = crowns
1d10 to determine alignment:
- 1 = LG
- 2 = NG
- 3 = CG
- 4 = LN
- 5 = N
- 6 = CN
- 7 = LE
- 8 = NE
- 9 = CE
- 10 = roll again
Obviously, I will need to adjudicate the actual results since some of the cards are missing from Galen's deck, so please allow me to tell you which card you actually get instead of using any sources from Paizo or the oracle. :)
I'll be out all day tomorrow, and won't be able to post until the weekend. Please bot me as needed.
Looking to get a Galen post in today -- it's been a bit challenging to think about Galen's existence post-Aria, as he's essentially homeless now and his motivations for performing would be heavily impacted. So not the greatest thing to write about, but I'll find an angle here for his day.
Maybe with a new DM, she will make a miraculous recovery?
So about loot. Had we found a masterwork morningstar, or was that just my imagination?
Most of the loot from the Fair Fortune is listed here which does include a Mw silver morningstar. I think the loot tracker above basically lists everything you got prior to my start as GM.
Did anyone ever roll Appraise for the non-gear related treasure? I don't recall ever seeing that anywhere which is why I haven't mentioned the value of your warchest for your rebellion.
Any chance I could retcon having claimed the morningstar? If you'd rather not I understand, but as a 3/4 BAB trying to TWF that +1 to hit would be a huge boon :).
If not now, I will definitely be asking for that at the first opportunity.
You have all had a nearly 24 hours to do whatever you want. So splitting the loot and what not seems fairly open. If you want to lay claim to gear with your fellows' consent, I can't imagine there would be any problem.
I saw nothing that screams Darian, except maybe the cloak of elvenkind.
@Darian: I'm going to hold off on the posts about interactions with your parents until after this little side adventure. Let's assume that your most recent visit with them was fairly brief as they were busy and rushing off to handle things. You will have gotten the impression there has been some kind of shake-up with business...probably thanks to Thrune, of course.
Ok.
Hey GM, I don't seem to be able to find Darian and Avrora on the map. Could you please place me behind Darian?
I sure can!
FYI: the visibility is currently restricted based on corners and all that, so since the basement is officially a separate part of the map, there's a little "tunnel" on the Roll20 which leads there, so you can move your tokens back and forth if you need to do so.
EDIT: I added a purple line to lead you if anyone is having trouble finding the "tunnel."