I think we are all in agreement that items over 4000gp sold through the markets increase the kingdom's/our BP's right? That seems pretty clear in the rules.
The thing the rules are not clear on is what do you do with the items less than 4000gp? They don't increase your economy with BP so what do you do with them to clear them out for better items?
I was stating that we would buy the scroll of dispel/haste, it is pretty useful and the potion of hide from animals with our own money, not the kingdom's.
That should still leave us with an economy roll to sell one correct? So if it isn't worth 4000gp, then what does it do? I was just stating that let's say we sell 4 1000gp items it might make sense that we would end up with 1BP after selling those.
If you don't like that idea not a big deal, just something I was throwing out there. So I guess it just goes to the market and nothing happens...that seems odd as well but I can live with it.
If you are speaking of items the party acquires while exploring/adventuring, I agree with combining individual items in 1,000 gp incriments. If you are speaking of items that fill the random magic item slots, I disagree.
The party may purchases items available in the kingdom's economic market (random magic item slots). Regardless of party purchases, an economy check against the appropriate DC for an item can be made to clear that item's slot. A successful roll will indicate that the particular item was sold to someone as a normal part of commerce. The proceeds become a part of the kingdom general economy rather than an increase to the Kingdom treasury. A failed check will indicate that economic conditions were not favorable for a buyer to make a purchase. If an item is sold then it can be replenished (as a normal commercial event).
Since at this time you only have one city district you can make 1 economy check per kingdom turn to either sell a 4,000+ gp item or to clear a random magic item slot.
In terms of buying the randomly generated magic items with our own money, would we do that in the income phase, at the same time as the economy check to clear one slot, or would purchasing the items take place at another point during the turn?
Barring any other concerns about magic items, then it sound like our strategy for the second turn is as follows:
No Leadership Changes - unless we can find an assassin
No new hex claim
City Improvement - Butcher Shop
Road in A5
Farm in A5
Edicts - No Change
No Deposits or whithdrawls
Purchase the Potion of hide from Animals and the Scroll of Haste and Dispel with party funds.
Make economy check to clear out the other medium item slot
So, the rolls we'll need are:
Stability: DC 24; modifier +19
Economy to clear item slot: DC 35, modifier +27 (includes the butcher)
Income: Economy DC 24; mopdifier +27
Raz - let me know if you want any rolls for knowledge local or interpersonal skills related to the recruiting of a Royal Assassin. I'd like to get that position filled.
In terms of buying the randomly generated magic items with our own money, would we do that in the income phase, at the same time as the economy check to clear one slot, or would purchasing the items take place at another point during the turn?
- Filling vacant magic item slots occurs in Phase 1 - Upkeep (Step 3).
- Selling Items comes in Phase 3 - Income (Step 3). Your Economy check to determine if an item sells is also done in Phase 3 Step 3. This is where you also buy items for the party.
- Vacant magic item slots sold this turn are filled the next turn in Phase 1 Step 3.
Aspects of having a Royal Assassin:
- What is the official kingdom position for having an RA? What would you tell a rabble of irate citizenry who question having an RA?
- What class/alignment/level would you want an RA to be?
- Would the RA be part-time or full-time? Where would they be located?
- As a lawful neutral Kingdom, where are your courts and laws which would legitimize the use of an RA?
Questions for General Donatus:
- What are your plans for the defense of the kingdom?
- Who is going to do the defense? How big an army? When are you going to get one?
- Where are you going to keep your troops? The only warriors available are the 20 or so city guards under Marshal Keston Garess. They are housed in the Office of the City Guard and are for keeping the peace in Leveton and the immediate surrounds (say 2 miles).
Questions for Warden Shieldson:
- Who are you going to get to do the out ridding to patrol the boarders?
- Where are they going to be housed and supplied (food, hourses, tents, armor and arms)?
- What will be your schedule for the patrols?
Questions for Councilor Majorana:
- Given your philosophy, what are your plans for ensuring that the will of the citizenry is represented?
- What are your plans for your god's worship (and other god's worship) besides what High Priest Jhod Kavken is doing?
Questions for Baron Langham:
- How do you plan to use your Grand Diplomat, your sister Rebecca?
- What are your plans for dealing with other kingdoms?
How many troops are needed? 30 to 50 and all their equipment? Would have build a barrack. Perhaps another corral and stable. We'll need to advertise in Restov and other places.
Well Eirwulf could be the Royal Assassin and have Corax Xanadon as Warden.
How many troops are needed? 30 to 50 and all their equipment? Would have build a barrack. Perhaps another corral and stable. We'll need to advertise in Restov and other places.
An army of 100 foot soldiers (a Medium sized army which is the right size for a Barony) would cost 2 BP per month to equip, feed and maintain. A barracks (8 BP) would be required to house and be a base for training.
An army of 50 mounted solders (a small army) would cost 2 BP per month to equip, feed and maintain. This would also require a barracks (8 BP), but Leveton already has a stable and a corral, so that cost is already absorbed. To arm it with bows (ranged weapons) would cost an additional 2 BP per month and a Fletcher (6 BP)would be required.
The small mounted army makes the most sense for where the kingdom is now. The army can be broken down to 5 squads which can be used to ride circuit through the explored but unclaimed hexes to keep the peace and to show the flag.
It would take 2 weeks to train the small mounted army before they could be effective. The small mounted army would be able to cross 4 hexes of grasslands in a day, 2 hexes of hill/rough terrain per day. The medium foot solider army would be able to cross 2 hexes of grasslands in a day, but only 1 hex of hill/rough terrain per day. The squads of the mounted small army would not count as an army at all. All 5 squads would have to be in the same hex to form an actual army for the mass combat rules. The city guard would not be considered an army because of size and low NPC level.
We have no plans for an army at the moment that Osvaldt and I have discussed. A kingdom the size of ours, the army would just put an undue burden on the kingdom.
A medievil lord would typically have about the defense force we currently have and only during times of trouble would he raise the militia. At this point it is really only a symbolic title...although if we did need to bring Kesten's men into the field for some reason, I would see me being the commander of those forces with Kesten as my second in command. I do train with them from time to time as well as talk with the citizens about how we would rally a militia when the time comes.
That is what I spend my time each month doing, preparing for the worst.
•What are your plans for the defense of the kingdom? The town guard as well as a provisional militia I mentioned above that can be raised when needed.
•Who is going to do the defense? How big an army? When are you going to get one? I am thinking we would probably start to look at creating a permanent army in about a year or so once we get to a large enough size to need one. We will eventually need a castle and city walls, but we are some time away from that. Kesten is my second in comand when we are away, otherwise I am in command. Size would probably be what you mentioned for an army.
•Where are you going to keep your troops? The only warriors available are the 20 or so city guards under Marshal Keston Garess. They are housed in the Office of the City Guard and are for keeping the peace in Leveton and the immediate surrounds (say 2 miles).
Once we raise an army, we would build a barracks.
Osvaldt, do you disagree?
We need patrols to protect the trade routes at the very least. If there's no protection that might tempt some people/monsters. We can't be everywhere.
That is what Caravan guards are for. Even with 50 men we could barely patrol the hexes immediately around us.
Royal Assassin
As described in the book:
“Royal Assassin - The Royal Assassin can serve as a public executioner, a headsman, or a shadowy eradicator of kingdom rivals.”
As I think I have said, I really don’t envision us as having a “shadowy eradicator.” However, I intend us to have a system of laws, and some of those will carry the penalty of execution, and someone has to do it.
Granted – we don’t have specific need of that service yet, but I am viewing the leadership roles in an abstract way. We have a general, but no army. We have a High Priest, but no temples. We have a Magister, but no institutions of education, magical or otherwise. We have a Grand Diplomat, and no foreign relations.
So long as we’re discussing it in more particulars, though, there is an important role which is not among the listed options, that of a public prosecutor or judge. I don’t’ know what the judicial system of Brevoy is like, but I imagine it being more like the tribunals of Europe, with a presiding magistrate responsible for both interrogating witnesses and making a determination. Perhaps rather than a Royal Assassin, we have a Magistrate or Inquisitor? In that case, it would be a publicly known and acknowledged position. Osvaldt would be looking for someone wise and learned in the customs and traditions of the law (which means ranks in Knowledge Local and Knowledge Nobility). It would also be important for him or her to have a good Sense Motive skill. Class and level don’t matter, so long as he has the skill set.
If, on the other hand, Royal Assassin must mean the shadowy figure who slits your throat in the night, it would be an unacknowledged position, in much the same way we are not telling the general populace we have a spymaster. In that case, I’d be looking for someone with the subtlety to get things done without attracting attention. I’d also be less concerned about filling the position right away, as there is currently no one I know of who I want to assassinate. In terms o finding someone, it would be a matter of very discrete gathering of information about people in town who might have an appropriate skill set, and then a long and careful process of cultivating those people. Before I hire an assassin, I want to be reasonably sure of his loyalty.
On Courts and Laws
While Michael Huey actually does have a Doctor of Jurisprudence, Osvaldt does not, so I don’t want to get too deeply into the legal and political system of the kingdom. As a starting point, Greenmarch will be governed according to the legal traditions and precedents of Brevoy.
Petitions for new rules or modifications to the rules may be made. Such petitions shall be filed with the office of the Councilor general. The Councilor is hereby empowered to review all such petitions and present to the Baron any that are worthy of consideration. The Baron shall be responsible for all legislative action, with the advice of his council, which shall be comprised of the people in “leadership” positions along with Oleg, as acting mayor of Leveton. The one note to that statement is that the Spymaster is not generally acknowledged to exist, so Osvaldt will be meeting with her separately, and as covertly as he can manage. He’d like to do so at least on a weekly basis. I figure that deliveries of products from the butcher shop to his household will provide a reasonable excuse for a brief periodic meeting.
In matters pertaining to crimes against persons or property, authority to arrest and prosecute is hereby granted to the Marshal, as concerns crimes which take place within the city, and to the Warden, as concerns crimes that take place in the countryside. In the event of any dispute of jurisdiction between the Marshal and the Warden, the decision of the Baron shall prevail.
In matters concerning disputes over issues of trade, contract, property and estates, authority to resolve disputes is hereby granted to the office of the Treasurer.
Appeal of the decisions of the Marshal, Warden or Treasurer shall be made through the office of the Councilor, and decided by the Baron.
Physically, we have no space for a courthouse as of yet. I’d like to build one, but the basic functions of the community (such as trade and sanitation) come first. Criminal matters can be handled in the Office of the City Guard. Otherwise, for now, we’ll have to operate out of a house or a tent. I am hoping that somewhere within the two blocks of general housing that have been built; there might be housing for the PCs. We certainly can’t afford to build a castle, or a villa or a mansion. I was hoping, though, that I wouldn’t be living in a tent out behind the stables.
Which brings me to a related question – does the abstract concept of “consumption” include any allowance for the maintenance of the ruler? Or am I responsible for my own household staff? Or am I answering my own door, cooking my own meals and emptying my own chamber pot? If I have to dip into my share of whatever treasure we find to pay for a few low-level hirelings (at least until I have the Leadership feat and can convert some servants to followers) then I will do so. I don’t like it, since it eats into my ability to equip myself for adventuring, but c’est la vie.
Foreign Relations and Diplomacy
It is somewhat premature to think of our fledgling kingdom as having a foreign policy. For the time being, the role of the Diplomat is to maintain our relationship with Brevoy. The promotion we’re doing, to attract investment and immigration would be her primary concern, along with keeping apprised of the political situation in our largest neighbor.
At some point in the not-too-distant future, I would like to make diplomatic contact with the other groups who were sent out into the region along with us. I believe someone mentioned that there were other charters like ours that have been established. I see us as siblings, all born of the same parent, Brevoy. We should pursue relations with one another.
Other than that, the next closest kingdom is the River Kingdoms. I think we’ll just leave them be for now, until we are established.
Armies, Guard, and Patrols
Does the growth of the population assume that a certain number of people have been hired by the city guards, or the warden? Is their salary taken into account within the consumption figures? Or, do we have to hire and separately pay for city guard and wardens?
I see that there are rules for the creation and maintenance of armies. We don’t need an army yet. Not until we have the town operating on a stable basis. Once we reach a point where I think we aren’t going to collapse in a heap, we can talk about offensive and defensive forces.
Again, defensive fortifications are something I would like to build, but we don’t have the money to build everything, and can only build one item per month, so it will have to wait.
Other Items from Osvaldt
Technically, Greenmarch currently has no nobility of its own. As an independent kingdom, I have not granted hereditary title or lands to anyone. I suppose that we will recognize Brevic titles, at least in so far as the application of laws is concerned. Eventually, I will start bestowing titles on others (presumably the PCs). Not something I’m in any hurry to do, unless you guys really want to be official knights.
Since Osvaldt is currently unmarried and without issue, he will need to name someone as the heir of his body, in the event something happens to him. Osvaldt will name his brother Peter as his heir, until such time as he sees fit to change that.
At some point, Osvaldt has to consider his responsibility of producing an heir and ensuring the continuation of his line. He isn’t taking out personal ads or anything, but he (and probably Rebecca on his behalf) is keeping an eye out for suitable prospects.
Hopefully Peter's wife is not like Lady Macbeth :)
Foreign Relations and Diplomacy
It is somewhat premature to think of our fledgling kingdom as having a foreign policy. For the time being, the role of the Diplomat is to maintain our relationship with Brevoy. The promotion we’re doing, to attract investment and immigration would be her primary concern, along with keeping apprised of the political situation in our largest neighbor.
At some point in the not-too-distant future, I would like to make diplomatic contact with the other groups who were sent out into the region along with us. I believe someone mentioned that there were other charters like ours that have been established. I see us as siblings, all born of the same parent, Brevoy. We should pursue relations with one another.
Other than that, the next closest kingdom is the River Kingdoms. I think we’ll just leave them be for now, until we are established.
The closest kingdoms would be Pitax and Mivon.
Shall we start turn 2 then?
I believe we need a stability roll to start with. According to my notes, the DC would be 25 and our Stability modifier before building anything in turn 2 is 19.
Based on discussions Turn 2 is posted in Gameplay for rolls.
Goals for Kingdom Turn 3 - I think that's Sarinth 4709 next. Haven't entirely figured out the Golarion calendar.
I'd like to claim another hex. If we can maintain a growth rate of just over 1 hex every other month, we can hit a total size of 10 by the end of the year, which is an XP bonus. A size of 11 lets us build more per turn. I'm thinking maybe we claim hex C4. This gets us control over the gold mine, even if that doesn't add much at the moment. It also moves us in the direction of the lake, which I'd like to reach eventually.
I'd like to build one more road, in A3 - that will connect the logging camp to the town, making raw materials flow more smoothly. It also is our 4th Road, which is a +1 Econ.
I'd like to build one more farm - which we could also do in A3. that would drop our consumption down to 1 (after adding the extra hex).
City Improvements: I was thinking of maybe a brewery. It adds to Stability and Loyalty, which are still our weak points. It has a cost of 6, still relatively cheap.
Questions for the Party
1) title and lands. Oz is open to the idea of granting each of his companions a lordship, which would come with a small estate, a couple hundred acres or so. There is a catch. The typical relationship in a feudal system is that you would be vassals to the Barony. A vassal pledges to serve the lord (me), and to provide military support, in the form of troops or coin, in the event of war. Raz - I would make that offer to a couple of the major NPCs as well, but not sure which ones yet.
2) Flag. The kingdom needs a flag. I was kind of thinking of a lion rampant (Oz is of the order of the lion, and I just think they're cool) over crossed keys (Abadar is the Keeper of the Keys) on a green field. If you don't dig that, it might be Osvaldt's personal banner instead.
The forest edge in A3 has been worked by the loggers fairly well so I believe that the entire hex can be made farmland without complicating the BP cost. C4 does make a reasonable choice but you will not be able to make that hex farmland if you want a full fledged mine there. You can build a road and a mine in C4 during Turn 4. Adding a signal tower there would be 4 BP and increase stability (in Turn 5).
As a further consideration B3 has the moon radish patch. This could be claimed in Turn 5. A road would cost 2 BP and a Herbal Cultivator 15 BP but you would get Economy +2, Loyalty +1, Economy +1.
You may want to consider Asbat Marjorana for a loardship. I believe he would be the elder Marjorana and ideal in solidifying the farming interests. Offering the Inquisitor a lordship would make him more likely to switch allegiance to Greenmarch.
Brewery sounds fine, Ettore's family are in the process of starting it anyways.
A3 probably makes sense for the farm.
My Baron, I would be honored to accepts the title of Lordship from you! Agree that we would support you with levies in the event of war, although I was looking to be granted title and land in the form of a city... :] But that can wait until we have enough resources to do something like that and I probably would want land we conquered from others...
Just so I can wrap my head around this. Is there a set number of kingdom turns before AP#2 starts?
From what Raz said earlier, there will be approximately about a year before the main events of the 2nd module will start occurring, but there are plenty of smaller events that he may start throwing in as part of the turns that occur in the 2nd AP.
Bit of a hybrid approach. Of course even as the events of chapter 2 unfold we will still be doing monthly turns. It all depends upon how quickly the events come to pass and how we handle them I think.
That is the cool thing about this AP, nothing is really set in stone in the events.
So not as rushed as Second Darkness. :)
Chapter 2 is (story line wise) pretty much like Chapter 1. Peter Langham will be coming to Oswaldt in a few months with a suggestion making integrating Chapter 2 more plausible, more organic if you will.
Here is what I've heard so far: Claim Hex C4, Improve A3 with road and farmland, build a brewery in Leveton.
The magic slots filled in Turn 3 will be 1 Minor (a bone of bones) and 2 Medium (a scroll of cone of cold, and a wand of blur).
Anything else before I post Turn 3?
Here is what I've heard so far: Claim Hex C4, Improve A3 with road and farmland, build a brewery in Leveton.
The magic slots filled in Turn 3 will be 1 Minor (a bone of bones) and 2 Medium (a scroll of cone of cold, and a wand of blur).
Anything else before I post Turn 3?
Re: Action plan for turn 3: Yes. That is my understanding. It's going to push our treasury down a bit, but hopefully, we'll be able to make some bank elsewhere.
Re: Magic Items: Do you mean a Robe of Bones? If so, that's 2400 GP base, so we can't get BP out of it.
If nothing else, at least we generated one item (the wand) with a base value of 4k or better, so we can attempt to sell that for BP.
I just noticed that the River Kingdoms book chaged the amoutn you get for selling magic items. The orginal version has 2, 8, and 15 for minor, medium and major. The River Kingdoms has it as 2, 6, 12.
I will still take the 6BP. It's more than we can make from our economy at the moment.
We should go ahead and continue to fill up the city as quickly as we can. Once we get to two districts we can sell one item per district. We should add some houses as we go to fill it up quickly and grow the population of the city.
Here is what I've heard so far: Claim Hex C4, Improve A3 with road and farmland, build a brewery in Leveton.
The magic slots filled in Turn 3 will be 1 Minor (a bone of bones) and 2 Medium (a scroll of cone of cold, and a wand of blur).
Anything else before I post Turn 3?
Re: Action plan for turn 3: Yes. That is my understanding. It's going to push our treasury down a bit, but hopefully, we'll be able to make some bank elsewhere.
Re: Magic Items: Do you mean a Robe of Bones? If so, that's 2400 GP base, so we can't get BP out of it.
If nothing else, at least we generated one item (the wand) with a base value of 4k or better, so we can attempt to sell that for BP.
Yes, I did mean Robe of Bones. Do you want to to build a house block this turn? The first house block you build each turn doesn't count against your turn building count.
I will still take the 6BP. It's more than we can make from our economy at the moment.
We should go ahead and continue to fill up the city as quickly as we can. Once we get to two districts we can sell one item per district. We should add some houses as we go to fill it up quickly and grow the population of the city.
You may want to consider some city walls eventually to help protect you gains.
You may want to consider some city walls eventually to help protect you gains.I will still take the 6BP. It's more than we can make from our economy at the moment.
We should go ahead and continue to fill up the city as quickly as we can. Once we get to two districts we can sell one item per district. We should add some houses as we go to fill it up quickly and grow the population of the city.
Yes. City Walls are on the to do list.
So is more housing.Not this turn. Between the hex, the road, the farm and the Brewery, we're pushing the treasury down pretty hard. Let's see if we can see an item and make an economy check first.
Turn 3 has been posted in Gameplay.
Regarding magic items, if random magic items are sold for the benefit of the Kingdom Treasury, who paid the material costs for their construction?
Regarding magic items, if random magic items are sold for the benefit of the Kingdom Treasury, who paid the material costs for their construction?
Whoever made the item paid for them. That might have been someone in town, or someone who was just passing through. It could have been someone who lived and died 1,000 years ago, and left the item stashed in the back of a cave somewhere, where a wandering adventurer just happened to pick it up, and then put it on the market here in Leveton.
This is not a case of the rulers of the country personally ordering someone to sell an item they just crafted and then seizing the proceeds. It is an abstract representaton of the impact of the sale on the overall economy of hte kingdom.
I hate to talk myself out of money, but I come up with a different number for our treasury this turn.
We started at 16.
We spent the following:
Claim a hex 1
Consumption 1
Build a Farm 2
Build a Road 1
Brewery 6
Total Spent 11
We earned the following:
Maintain zero unrest 1
Sell Wand 6
Income Roll 6
Subtotal 13
Ending Treasury: 18
As for the Monster attack, I'm always up for handling dangerous beasties personally. A growing boy needs is exercise.
For practical reasons, though, maybe we should roll for it and let the guards handle. I just hate to take the risk of failing the roll and eating 4 points of unrest, and still having a monster around.
I have posted Updated Kingdom Turn 3 to Gameplay.
Summary: Treasury = 19, Economy = +27, Loyality = +17, Stability = +21, Consumption = 1, Control DC = 25, Kingdom Size = 5 hexes, Population = 4,000. Unrest remains to be determined based on how you handle Monster Attack.
Sorry Treasury is actually 17, I didn't Count Consumption for Phase 1 Step 2 correctly.
Sorry Treasury is actually 17, I didn't Count Consumption for Phase 1 Step 2 correctly.
I emailed a ledger spreadsheet.
I believe I had the consumption for last turn at the 1 you had poseted originally. Adjusting that back to 2. if you go ahead and check the other debits and credits, I can maintain it easily enough.I have the current balance at 16 BP, but I'm not certain about the consumtion figures.
Eirwulf makes his way to what is Oleg’s trading post and finds a Church of Calistra (brothel) and asks the church if they need his services as a bouncer. Along the way he hears of the group that took care of the stag lord and what appears to be an opening in the group as their Oracle had to leave suddenly on family business. He makes contact with the Cleric of Cayden Cailen named called Ettore and asks he can join their group as he not sure of the knight/leader as he heard that knights had murdered a tiefling baby.
Eirwulf is about 6’0” with silvery white hair and intense blue eyes and skin the color of scaled obsidian with copper streaks. He has a rough code of justice believing that the individual is responsible for his or her actions but not at the expense of another’s well-being. He also believes in “Mother’s” predictions and will follow to the best of his abilities and if he gets wealth, magic and power along the way so much the better.
Ok questions? :)
If Ettore is vouching for him, Osvaldt would probably be accepting. He would want to test the man's mettle, however, so would invite him to train with him some afternoon (before really trusting him with anything important). Osvaldt's training routine is made up of sword practice and riding & jousting drills. Since he owns a bow now, He'll probably engage in a little target practice, though he mostly sucks at it.
Oz would want to make sense motive checks to evaluate the new guy's proficiency over the course of an afternoon.
You notice Eirwulf's combat sytle is one of brute force rather than finesse but that could be fixed with help. He also can barely ride and has no idea what jousting is.
Tavius walks in and looks over the Tiefling. He rarely judges a man by his looks, but he is not sure about the new arrival. He follows the two to the yard behind the Office of the City Guard.
He watches his Lord spar with the brute, his hand on his blade, ready to take the man out if he tries anything funny. Eventually he suggests an appropriate course of action.
He should test his mettle with us my Lord! We are going to ride south to one of our mines that has been invaded by a 3 headed beast.
What do you say Eirwulf, up for a good hunt to prove yourself?
BTW I thought of a possible name for the new city if we form one at the stag lords fort...
Edgewater
Has veryone sent Raz their 5th level characters? If so we should be almost ready to go and take care of the beastie..
Yes My Lord. I would be up for the hunt.
I have been focusing on a tracking system for kingdom turns and should have the alpha version ready by Wednesday. I'll have the mine site image with numbered grid by Friday to use in the encounter.