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Granta's Evergreen Arc #8

Game Master Granta

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Grand Lodge

L-N Male Oread Monk 1 (Master of Many Styles, Monk of Sacred Mountain) HP: 7/10 | AC: 16 (Tch:16, FF:13) CMD: 19 | F: +3 R:+4 W: +5 | Init: +2 Perc: +7 SM: +7 Darkvision 60' | Active Conditions: none

I have played it often, and ran it a few times as well. Never battled fleas before, though.

Liberty's Edge

NG Hunter (divine hunter, verminous hunter) 1 Human(Shoanti) | HP: 17/17 | AC: 18 (12 Tch, 16 Fl) | CMB: +4, CMD: 16 | F: +4, R: +4, W: +2 | Init: +2 | Perc: +6 , SM: +7 | Speed 35ft | Shirt Reroll: 1/1, Vermin Focus 3/3 min, Goodberry 2/2 | Spells: 1st: 1/2 | Active conditions: Beetle Focus (+2 Nat Armor)

Since everybody else has done so, I have done Wounded Wisp and The Consortium Compact. For whatever reason though, I've never touched the Confirmation. Must be Baird's fault.

Scarab Sages

230524-9 | Male NG Human (Garundi) Courtly Hunter 1 (Ultimate Intrigue pg. 64) | HP 10/10 | AC 17 T 13 FF 14 | CMD15 | F +4 R +5 W +2 | Init +5 | Perc +6 SM +2 | Speed 30 ft | Spells: 1st 2/2 | Active Conditions: Aspect of the Eagle (+2 Cha)

Up to you to figure everything out, then, MisterSlanky. ;)

Grand Lodge

HP: 10/10 l AC: 15, T 10, FF 15 l CMD 12 l F +2, R +0, W +5, +7 vs. enchantments l L1: 1/2 l Init +0 l Senses: Perception +3, Low Light Vision
Skills:
Bluff +9, Craft: Jewelry +4, Kn. Nature +4, Sense Motive +9, Spellcraft +4
Female CG Half-Elf Shaman (Unsworn Shaman) 1 | Active Conditions: Bless

Hey guys, my laptop has died and I'm stuck working the next couple of days so until I can get the issue addressed I'm limited to posting from my Kindle - which makes using maps difficult.

Just bot Minna as needed and I'll try and catch up when I get home from work tomorrow night.

Scarab Sages

230524-9 | Male NG Human (Garundi) Courtly Hunter 1 (Ultimate Intrigue pg. 64) | HP 10/10 | AC 17 T 13 FF 14 | CMD15 | F +4 R +5 W +2 | Init +5 | Perc +6 SM +2 | Speed 30 ft | Spells: 1st 2/2 | Active Conditions: Aspect of the Eagle (+2 Cha)

Possible tip on Diplomacy for the future--if you don't play or play with diplomancers regularly, you might not know.

Diplomacy has a penalty for failing by 5+, and the DC rises by 5 for subsequent attempts (because the DC for the category rises by 5). So, if you see a tablemate fail and make things worse, you should only attempt Diplomacy if you're confident you can roll 10+ higher than the last Diplomacy check.

Intimidate is fun, but quick becomes inefficient because the DC scales faster as opponents increase in level. The penalty for failing Intimidate is that they lie or trick you. And they become Unfriendly after the duration. Good if you don't need their help for very long.

Sovereign Court

Confirmation Maps

Another factor about Intimidate is it makes the target act friendly rather than improving its attitude by "X" steps. So in addition to the other points Raul raised:

  • Intimidate can't make a target act helpful, Diplomacy can.
  • Intimidate can make a hostile target act friendly, Diplomacy can't.

Grand Lodge

HP: 10/10 l AC: 15, T 10, FF 15 l CMD 12 l F +2, R +0, W +5, +7 vs. enchantments l L1: 1/2 l Init +0 l Senses: Perception +3, Low Light Vision
Skills:
Bluff +9, Craft: Jewelry +4, Kn. Nature +4, Sense Motive +9, Spellcraft +4
Female CG Half-Elf Shaman (Unsworn Shaman) 1 | Active Conditions: Bless

Not sure if that was directed at me re: Diplomacy but I've gotten into the habit of at least trying to help out if my particular character has a decent chance at doing so (no negative modifiers) because I've played at tables before where there either wasn't a diplomancer at all or said diplomancer rolled low and needed the assist.

Of course I try to play my characters as learning from their experiences so after this Minna will be more inclined to keep her mouth shut unless we need to lie about something - that's much more her speed anyway ;)

Not arguing and not upset, just wanted to share my thought process :)

Scarab Sages

230524-9 | Male NG Human (Garundi) Courtly Hunter 1 (Ultimate Intrigue pg. 64) | HP 10/10 | AC 17 T 13 FF 14 | CMD15 | F +4 R +5 W +2 | Init +5 | Perc +6 SM +2 | Speed 30 ft | Spells: 1st 2/2 | Active Conditions: Aspect of the Eagle (+2 Cha)

It was generic information, but it was triggered by Ash roll a d20+0 on an unfriendly NPC (DC20+Cha mod) after having a GM in a different game force roll our diplomacy if we opened our mouths at all (my other character has a -2 Cha, all he did was ask a question, so that went to hostile).

I don't know if Granta will decide if Maudi can use Intimidate to influence attitude, since he can't talk, but at worst, he directs us to the [spoiler].

Minna used Aid Another, which was a great move.

...and if Ash already knew all this and did it because it was IC, that's cool too.

It was directed at anyone who didn't know.

EDIT: Because there's little worse than triggering combat and not knowing why it happened.

Sovereign Court

Confirmation Maps

Maudi actually succeeded, barely. And that is a perfect example of why role-playing matters. I would not have allowed the attempt if it was just a dice roll.

And that story raises a question I've never thought about before, if you roll 5 or less on an aid, would it worsen the target's attitude?

Liberty's Edge

NG Hunter (divine hunter, verminous hunter) 1 Human(Shoanti) | HP: 17/17 | AC: 18 (12 Tch, 16 Fl) | CMB: +4, CMD: 16 | F: +4, R: +4, W: +2 | Init: +2 | Perc: +6 , SM: +7 | Speed 35ft | Shirt Reroll: 1/1, Vermin Focus 3/3 min, Goodberry 2/2 | Spells: 1st: 1/2 | Active conditions: Beetle Focus (+2 Nat Armor)

First off, I knew it was directed at me, but at least in most of the PbPs I run, I don't run in strict post order, nor do I penalize for when somebody has time for posting in a game unless it's egregious. I tend to write in narrative order rather than posting order. If that's not the case at GM Granta's tables, I'll not post after the fact. I don't think PbP is very conducive to a number of rules regarding timing.

As for GM Granta's question - I can answer that one from the official stance of "run as written". Nowhere in the rules does it state an aid fails on a 5 or less.

However...

If you want to be a real rules jerk:

Aid Another:
You can help someone achieve success on a skill check by making the same kind of skill check in a cooperative effort. If you roll a 10 or higher on your check, the character you're helping gets a +2 bonus on his or her check. (You can't take 10 on a skill check to aid another.) In many cases, a character's help won't be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.

In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results[b], such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can't aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn't achieve alone.[/b] The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.

(Bold Mine) Since there is a failure condition on diplomacy checks, much as there is for a disable device, it's fair to say that somebody without a suitable diplomacy to make the check on their own (such as trying to influence somebody that's unfriendly that has a CHA bonus) cannot actually attempt to aid.

Sovereign Court

Confirmation Maps

I wouldn't put a DD-like restriction on Diplomacy, but I'm not sure whether I agree with your interpretation of the base rule. Nowhere in the rules does it state that Diplomacy aids are exempted from the rules for Diplomacy. That said, I still don't know how I would actually rule in this situation.

In the end, it would probably depend on the table and players. If they are being a bunch of twits, they might get shafted on that one. Conversely, Maudi's role-playing got you a success that I wouldn't normally have given.

Edit: And I resolve in initiative order, not post order. If timing matters outside of combat, I roll initiative to see who speaks, jumps, steals, etc. first.

Grand Lodge

L-N Male Oread Monk 1 (Master of Many Styles, Monk of Sacred Mountain) HP: 7/10 | AC: 16 (Tch:16, FF:13) CMD: 19 | F: +3 R:+4 W: +5 | Init: +2 Perc: +7 SM: +7 Darkvision 60' | Active Conditions: none

I think what the rule Klah is describing is limited to skills you don't have. I can't succeed at Disable Device unless I have it. In the case of Diplomacy, you can use it untrained - so anyone has a chance to do well unless the DC is simply too high to succeed even if you rolled a 20. In that case, maybe, you can't aid - I am not sure. I would probably allow it anyway if you at least had a rank in the skill.

Sovereign Court

Confirmation Maps

I vaguely remember a ruling somewhere that you cannot help some achieve a higher result than you could get on your own, or maybe than they could get on their own. I don't remember which, or even if it was an official Paizo clarification.

Scarab Sages

230524-9 | Male NG Human (Garundi) Courtly Hunter 1 (Ultimate Intrigue pg. 64) | HP 10/10 | AC 17 T 13 FF 14 | CMD15 | F +4 R +5 W +2 | Init +5 | Perc +6 SM +2 | Speed 30 ft | Spells: 1st 2/2 | Active Conditions: Aspect of the Eagle (+2 Cha)

I wouldn't penalize the Diplomacy result based on the Aid Another result.

They are two separate actions with two separate, defined mechanics.

Diplomacy to Improve Attitude, roll vs. DC X, if fail by 5 or more attitude worsens, result on success is improve attitude by one step

Aid Another on a Skill, roll same skill vs. DC 10, result on success is +2 to aided person's result

Success isn't guaranteed even with the +2, nor is not failing by 5 or more guaranteed. Also, it encourages engagement and cooperation in social encounters, even among Charisma 5 dwarf barbarians.

Sovereign Court

Confirmation Maps
Raul the Hunter wrote:
Also, it encourages engagement and cooperation in social encounters, even among Charisma 5 dwarf barbarians.

That's really the key point, I think.

Liberty's Edge

NG Hunter (divine hunter, verminous hunter) 1 Human(Shoanti) | HP: 17/17 | AC: 18 (12 Tch, 16 Fl) | CMB: +4, CMD: 16 | F: +4, R: +4, W: +2 | Init: +2 | Perc: +6 , SM: +7 | Speed 35ft | Shirt Reroll: 1/1, Vermin Focus 3/3 min, Goodberry 2/2 | Spells: 1st: 1/2 | Active conditions: Beetle Focus (+2 Nat Armor)

I don't actually run with that rule, but it's there, and I think it encourages not having 5 CHA barbarians in the first place ;-)

Grand Lodge

HP: 10/10 l AC: 15, T 10, FF 15 l CMD 12 l F +2, R +0, W +5, +7 vs. enchantments l L1: 1/2 l Init +0 l Senses: Perception +3, Low Light Vision
Skills:
Bluff +9, Craft: Jewelry +4, Kn. Nature +4, Sense Motive +9, Spellcraft +4
Female CG Half-Elf Shaman (Unsworn Shaman) 1 | Active Conditions: Bless

New laptop ordered; should have it by Tuesday :)

Silver Crusade

LG human Conjuror | AC 12 (16), T 12 (16), FF 10 | 7 hp | Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +3;| Init +8 | Percep +5 (Familiar Bonus) | CMD 12

Hooray!

Sovereign Court

Confirmation Maps

Sorry for the GM slow down everyone. I had some people over this weekend to play boardgames, and it turned into a 22 hour party. Then I worked 15 hours on less than 2 hours of sleep.

I'm more or less recovered now, though. All games will get updated today, though some may not be until tonight.

Liberty's Edge

NG Hunter (divine hunter, verminous hunter) 1 Human(Shoanti) | HP: 17/17 | AC: 18 (12 Tch, 16 Fl) | CMB: +4, CMD: 16 | F: +4, R: +4, W: +2 | Init: +2 | Perc: +6 , SM: +7 | Speed 35ft | Shirt Reroll: 1/1, Vermin Focus 3/3 min, Goodberry 2/2 | Spells: 1st: 1/2 | Active conditions: Beetle Focus (+2 Nat Armor)

That sounds like a super fun weekend. I can't blame you.

Aaaaand for me. I will be at PaizoCon for the weekend. My flight leaves Thursday AM and doesn't return until Tuesday PM. I will have Wayfinder and a phone/tablet, so I'll do my absolute best to get in my daily post. That said, it's hard to get at maps on the phone (although doable).

Sovereign Court

Confirmation Maps

Could everybody please start hiding your rolls in spoilers, like this?

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