Gabriel Leoni |
I wish I could use my own morale booster, but unlike inspire or rally its basically Gabe turning into a glowing guy so its not like I can hide it. XD
Gabriel Leoni |
Damn, I remember when 18 was good. I'm hoping the drivers aren't as nimble as those archers. XD
Gabriel Leoni |
Might being the operative word. They aren't all push overs. If I haven't dropped him, I'd say you and I just burn him down and then sweep south to help the slaves. What do you think?
Bjorkus |
What's the disposition of the crowd? Are they insane with bloodlust and a suggestion for mercy would be impossible? What's their disposition toward Bjorkus? Would they take his pitch seriously?
That stuff doesn't seem too gray.
Bjorkus |
Gabe, I really wish you'd let me post first. =/
You're stepping all over Bjorkus's Spartacus-angle with your unwelcome paladining.
I was very tempted to just not post what I'd written.
DM Omen |
I don't know, it almost makes a little sense for Gabriel to jump on the opportunity first. While Bjorkus is certainly more well known and would have an easier time convincing the crowd, it's the character decision. I could see Bjorkus with his alignment choosing to kill the men to please the crowd for their favor, but also seeing the benefit of defying Targ. But Gabe's character is a paladin and would probably need to be in a much more dire situation to kill surrendering men in cold blood. So I could just see Bjorkus hesitating a moment before talking. My take anyways. I love this kind of stuff!
DM Omen |
Bah, this game of ninja.
Honestly I'm really glad you did Bjorkus, you took an entirely different route on how to defy the order and the multiple arguments will help to convince different types of people in the crowd.
Bjorkus |
I was under the impression that this whole gladiator slave uprising was supposed to be Bjorkus's thing. If Gabe wants it, it's his. Bjorkus will find something else in the city to entertain him.
Toramin Gearsmith |
Bjorkus |
I appreciate it Omen.
Just so you know where I’m coming from, there’s two things that irritate me more than anything in co-players: Bleeding edge optimization and a need to step on other player’s toes. Gabe is currently guilty of both in my eyes.
I understand it might not be intentional but I’m running out of ‘benefit of the doubt’.
Toramin Gearsmith |
. . . it almost makes a little sense . . .
My favorite linguistic construction of the day. It approaches but does not succeed in being partially sensical. hahaha
DM Omen |
Hahaha I love that strip. I feel as if I need to reread OOTS sometime.
Toramin I would love to see you play a high mental score character one day. I feel like given some downtime you could achieve some pretty cool stuff.
Yeah even over the medium of the internet I could feel that tension Bjorkus. Perhaps you both should get this worked out in a calm and peaceful manner while it's brought up. I'll stay out of it unless asked or I really feel like I need to intervene.
Gabriel Leoni |
I have two experiences as far as campaigns lasting longer then a day go. One was in fourth edition, but my first dnd game ever was a Pathfinder game. It was with people who had been playing DnD together for ten some odd years and were taking in a new member because one moved. I had, in the span of a year, 13 characters die in that game before I made an invulnerable rager (3 levels below the rest of the group) that could survive my ineptitude. This is my third campaign. I am far better at writing a character then playing them face to face, however. A far as optimization goes, I see the same levels of it in Bjorkus, especially if you're going to Dragon Disciple. In the end Gabe is strong, but a lot of his strength comes from abilities he hasn't been allowed to use, and most of it is about keeping him and other people alive. He's average melee fighter at best and unless he can smite something that won't change.
As for stepping on toes, I'm rping my character. He is a lawful good paladin who has been with these slaves for more then a month and has been trying to make their lives better. You're playing the crowd, Gabe is dealing with the slaves. We can both have equal parts in something, or you can keep insulting me when all I've done is write a story with you guys and gone where my character would as far as decisions went and calling it 'stepping on toes'.
Toramin Gearsmith |
Run more games or get me into a good high posting group, and I would love to play a high mental character.
Bjorkus |
I’m not going to touch the optimization thing anymore since it’ll just turn into a ‘No you!’ argument.
As far as playing your character. I respect that. I will admit that you are generally good about staying consistent with your character’s motivations but this is still a cooperative social game and ‘playing your character’ should take second seat to player harmony and not infringing on other’s people’s fun. The arena is supposed to be Bjorkus’s – Gabe’s powers are watched carefully and lots of this stuff isn’t evil. Let me have this. The moment we leave we’ll be returning to the status quo of smites and crazy Lay on Hand rolls.
I just ask that next time ‘playing your character’ involves rushing forward to steal someone else’s scene you think twice and let them post first. Omen handled your intervention like a champ but I’d prefer it not come up in the first place.
Gabriel Leoni |
Its not your scene Bjorkus. Its the parties scene. As long as you see it as your scene, there's going to be a problem. This isn't 'Bjorkus and friends in the Slavers Den'. We're all here and we've all got things going on. Gabe's post focused on his efforts with his fellow slaves. I left you plenty of room to play the crowd like Bjorkus does. Gabe could have tried calling out and pleading to them in the same way you did, he's clever enough too, but his characters motivation has been helping the slaves thus far so I stuck with that.
Toramin Gearsmith |
I really like the Ares, the Honorable post, Omen. Super cool.
Bjorkus |
No, this was Bjorkus’s scene just like Rilka’s adventure with the hostage was Rilka’s scene and Dalton’s time getting chummy with the slavemaster was Dalton’s scene.
Omen mentioned back in the earliest stages that Bjorkus’s rise as a freedom fighter was something he wanted to see. From what I can tell, that’s happening right now. Gabriel’s supposed to have his own goals and motivations, leave mine alone. Hell, Gabriel’s BFF is tagging along for some reason. You could direct your energies toward him.
Gabriel Leoni |
And that's the problem Bjorkus. Its an adventuring group. Multiple people could have multiple ideas and some of them can share opinions. I -tried- extending a hand, making jokes, supporting Bjorkus. Make it a thing the characters bond on. But you're interested in Bjorkus having the spot light. You never even asked if Gabe even wanted it. Maybe that would work better! Gabe being Bjorkus' right hand or some sort of buddy cop thing as I joked earlier. Gabe isn't exactly savvy enough to lead a revolution, all he can really do is instill faith and maybe make some calls in the heat of battle. This entire thing could have been Bjorkus taking Gabe under his wing as far as learning how to deal with the seedier side of things and other things in general. I can imagine so many cool ideas where Bjorkus screws with Gabe and his naive nature too, not in a cruel way but in a friendly one.
Toramin Gearsmith |
I'm worried about sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but I have a thought.
This is a cooperative game. It isn't only about one character or player. However, certain moments can highlight some characters, but not others. We need to improve on both cooperation and encouraging other character's highlight moments.
At least that's where I see the origin of some of this angst. At the risk of putting words in Bjorkus' mouth, I think Gabriel's intervention when Bjorkus was clearly asking questions preparing for a big character defining moment is what upset him -- he sees it as thunder stealing.
The problem isn't that Gabe was true to his character motivations (kudos -- that's awesome), it's about when he intervened and the perception that he did roughshod over another character. I doubt there would have been a tiff if Gabe had waited to post after Bjorkus.
So much of conflict is about perception rather than intent or action. We can do better to manage the perception of our actions.
Gabriel Leoni |
Honestly, I wasn't sure if Bjokrus wanted to risk whats going to happen to them now, though I think its cool that he did. I tried to leave him plenty of room, but I couldn't have Gabe hesitating in that regard either. I did the best I could for there to be a compromise instead by trying to focus on the aspect that Gabe has been dealing with instead (the slaves). It also kept the slaves from doing something like attacking the mercs or whatever they are to avoid punishment, preparing the way for Bjorkus. I actually had a speech similar to Bjorkus' written up and I did not post it, in case he wanted to do his thing. I was out walking to an interview hoping he took that opportunity because I had passed up on it.
DM Omen |
First off I chuckled a little
~Serious post
~Serious post
~Oh ya that would be cool
~Serious post
...
Back to business. As far as optimization goes, while Gabriel is well built he is by no means anywhere near as obnoxious as a lot of character's I've dealt with (that bard/monk/fighter still pisses me off to this day, absolutely stupid in melee...).
Toramin you worded many of my thoughts very well. However this is clearly extending beyond just this incident, going back to at least Gabriel coming back to the campaign. Bjorkus, is anything bothering you beyond this particular moment?
Gabriel Leoni |
I'm honestly more afraid of this conversation then I am upset, and when I'm afraid I tend to fall back on humor and optimistic suggestions.
Toramin Gearsmith |
This is where communication is key. Bjorkus could have said, "hey give me a moment to type up a speech." Gabe could have said, "You are asking a lot of questions, do you need a moment to get a post up?" Neither of you spoke up. Conflicted occurred due to communication failure.
We just need to improve our communication at these juncture moments. :-)
Bjorkus |
Of course I was willing to risk it. I asked those questions for a reason.
I would have had much less of an issue with Gabe's involvement if it'd come after Bjorkus's action and, ultimately, Omen sorting the narrative in such a way did help the frustrating sting a lot.
Gabriel Leoni |
I wouldn't mind doing that. Gabe's post actually would have been nicer coming on the heals of Bjorkus' instead. I do have to do it in real life, honestly, and it tends to annoy what few friends I have with the... er... the frequency of such questions.
And as far as I could tell the questions could have gone either way. You're pretty sly. I know a guy a lot like that who would ask those questions to feel out a situation before making a decision, rather then to figure out how to plan his.
Toramin Gearsmith |
That's an important question, Omen. One that needs to be asked; and one I was wondering myself.
You are getting all the DM kudos today. Good leadership!
Bjorkus |
Well since we’re being 100% honest I’ll spill it.
Previously, the optimization thing was a major concern but I’m also very nervous about his consistency. People that disappear without a word have a history of repeating. You’ve seen my PBP resume. I’m a bit of an expert.
I understand he was dealing with a crisis (or series of crisis’s) but we all do and being unreliable is a hard stain to shake in my eyes.
The ‘stop stepping on my hooves’ thing is more recent. Gabe’s actions as a slave haven’t been a problem until now.
Gabriel Leoni |
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I got nothing against that kind of thing, but I think the fact that I waited for two months to even start posting again in this game might count for something in that regard. I got a quick solo adventure to reintroduce me but after that the most RP I got was writing about Gabe's enslavement, with only a suggestion or two on Omen's part, to serve as a background for his reintroduction to the game.
In all honesty, I'm not a very healthy person mentally speaking. I have a lot of issues and the fact is that at any time they could overwhelm me. What I have going for me that other people don't against normal life issues that could overwhelm them is that I'm learning to deal with my issues, slowly but surely. I didn't just dally around when I was gone. I spent that time getting my life in order.
When I first joined the game, I probably wouldn't have been able to make it this far through the discussion and not have a panic attack. Now I can with breathing exercises.
I don't think the issues you have with me are completely solved, but that's largely because we're in disagreement over something. The entire slave rebellion isn't Bjrokus' thing, his scene, or his crowning moment. It may very well be a massive part of the story and we're all aloud to contribute and even take part in it. If Bjorkus wants to be the visible leader and the poster boy of it, the 'Honorable Ares' that's fine with me and Gabe, and I don't mind extra communication outside the game so that he doesn't step on Bjorkus' toes as far as timing goes.
But there are going to be scenes, -especially- with the slaves themselves, where Gabriel is going to have moments as well. I think he's spent nearly two months with them, secretly healing their injuries so they had a better survival rate, trying to show them a better way. They aren't his flock (so I'm not stepping on Toramin's toes hopefully). Gabe hasn't taught them anything religious really and when he does pray its to the goodly gods in general so as to not offend any one mans belief. But he is trying to give to them hope again, and that means a lot of that stuff where he whispers to them to stay low, or where he encourages them to not let Targ defeat their hope kind of thing.