Rywokit Prometheus |
I am indifferent to the presence or absence of a map. Narrative combat sounds super entertaining, but combat builds may want to know what they can or cannot do.
This is very true for me, as well. In general, I tend to prefer narrative style combat to miniatures-style combat. (I think, as well, that I'm generally better at GMing that style as well; in Gob Smash, however, we've several people that needed maps, which I can understand, in order to visualize things, hence the reliance on Roll20.
GM Viskous |
Maps, I don't really care in person. I ran a Shadowrun campaign for a year while also being a PFS GM. Shadowrun doesn't use minis and tactical maps, pathfinder usually does. I'm used to both methods and I'm comfortable with both in person. Technology is the limiting factor at the moment.
GM Viskous |
Will start actual combat in the morning. Give me any last reactions before maneuvering at combat speeds to the house. I have maps and tokens almost ready for the visual side of things.
I'm off to run Dragon's Demand at the FLGS. Hoping to kill Jack's rogue once and for all!
Allen Starskipper |
I don't really care how you decide to do it...I prefer whatever is quickest, since even a short combat can take weeks if you do just a round every day or two...
One thing of interest, my character's speed is 40, so a bit faster than most... he'll tend to use it to move around and heal or aid another, since he's not very capable in toe-to-toe combat.
pinvendor |
I can post way more often for combat if full descriptive posts aren't required since I can do that from my phone. While I prefer more narrative combat posts from myself, I also realize days can go by, and momentum can be lost as combat drags on eternally.
I'm more in favor of maps for PF mostly because the system was designed to use them and there is so much crunch directly related to positioning and distance. To remove it entirely and playing by description only almost changes the system completely and invalidates many specific uses of skills and feats. For example, how arbitrary does flanking become? Or a rogue's sneak attack and when it can be used? Does the removal of specific gridding hurt the power level of rogues (for example)...or actually increase it? Maybe now a greater number of rogues could all be flanking than a grid system would allow. This could potentially unbalance certain predefined CRs for some encounters.
While I have no problem with working through all that, I foresee a lot of "preposting" questions about relative distance and exactly what changed from Hero Group A's actions to Monster Group's actions so that Group B has a clear understanding of what they can still do to Monster Group following Hero Group A's resolution presuming the current initiative and posting structure proposed. I am more concerned with what will make combat, the longest part of PbP, even longer. While we all expect to do a lot of it in the months ahead, I would definitely like to modify combat only in the direction which will remove the need for clarifications and questions that could have been handled simply by using a tool or keeping a rule already available.
I know you've already announced a plan, and I am good with it, but I just wanted to put my two cps in for what it's worth for any future discussion. I'm willing to sign up for whatever is needed to make the tools that make things easier for you, GM Viskous, available. Chances are, I may have already. :-)
Rywokit Prometheus |
Actually, that's one of the reasons I love my own variant of Cheapy's variant sneak attack, which I have (for a long time - before Cheapy actually created his) called Opportune Strike. Deals +2 damage for every dice a rogue normally has, and keys off of any viable condition.
One of the things with more narrative combat is that the GM's role mostly becomes less "is this possible", and more "how much to say 'yes' to, reasonably" - it can be much faster, but it heavily relies on succinct entrusted communication between GM and player and the willingness on the part of both to role with whatever the other is trying to say/understands, insomuch as it could make sense. Effectively a bit of 'letting go' on both parties.
From a GM's perspective it makes the characters a little harder to harm (outside of dice or, in our case, the Paizo Dice roller (it's always there for you!), which are... hm... "funny" let's say, sometimes) and more likely to succeed (unless the GM is specifically setting things up for them to fail*), while from the Player's perspective it makes their character a little more prone to actions the player might not have chosen (if often closely paralleling or aligning similarly to how the character chose). However from a GM's perspective, it keeps continuity running relatively smoothly, and from a player's perspective it tends to make the character more independent and organic.
I say all of that as someone who's used both map-style and narrative, but who, in live games, has a tendency toward the narrative, especially due to the low number of players in the area (WHY HAVEN'T YOU ALL MOVED TO O-CAL-AAAAAAAAAAAAAA~!?! /whine) and my really horrid skills at drawing anything quickly (a combination perfectionism, limited dexterity, and an active toddler).
Still: maps are great, and having static maps, if nothing else, is exceedingly useful, I think. It gives images and helps us picture things. That is definitely something I tend to use (since it's supplied in the APs), and I like it, because it furthers communication between players and GMs. So thanks! :D
EDIT: Forgot to make my asterisk...
* This is not to say that a GM must set them up to fail, specifically in order for this situation to develop, but rather that if a GM is accepting their actions as the best possible variant thereof, to the GM's understanding, that, without somehow stacking the deck a tad, the games will tend to run toward the 'more likely to succeed' side. However, setting something up for them to fail doesn't actually entail hoping they will, or event thinking that they will. It's far more likely that a player will pull something that you hadn't considered. Games Operations Director, perhaps, but G.O.D. doesn't quite equal God, even in these games... :D
Tacticslion |
the DM rolling initiative
You know, I keep reading this as,
the DM trolling initiative
... and then I imagine poor Initiative over there dog-piled by the pranks (and/or personages, depending on what's funnier) of various Drimplegatto gnomes. It never ceases to be funny.
DM Crustypeanut |
(I know I'm not in this campaign, but as I mentioned to Viskous I'm keeping tabs because I'm interested in seeing how it plays out :D)
I, as a DM in another campaign, roll initiative for my players at the start of combat. In order to speed things up, I combine the total of the players' initiative and divide by how many players there are; Then I do the same for any groups of enemies.
This way, since we have two groups of actions, I can speed things up considerably without having to have, say, two players take their actions, the DM take the actions of some NPCs, then the remaining players take their actions.
If there are more than two factions fighting (Say, the PCs, the enemies, and another group of enemies that are enemies to both groups), then I repeat for each distinct group.
As for maps, I use Roll20, even if we still use play-by-post. No screen shotting maps and token-locations with this, just have your players hop in and examine where everything is. The DM can then move them quickly and easily.
Just my two cents! (And GL with the campaign so far guys! Its interesting so far) :D
Tacticslion |
Well said Tacticslion even if your constant parenthetical asides make your stream of discussion a little hard to follow occasionally. :P
Are you saying I talk too much and/or have a confusing and non-standard style of thought?!
Because, IF SO...
...
... you're right.
Lazur Anil |
(WHY HAVEN'T YOU ALL MOVED TO O-CAL-AAAAAAAAAAAAAA~!?! /whine)
If by this you mean Ocala, FL, the reason is all the gamers are in Gainesville and they've been sucked out of the surrounding counties. :)
Raven Usta |
Also, my family and work are in Europe, and I have no idea whether I'd be able to find at least an equal-paying source of employment in the 'States...
Rywokit Prometheus |
Rywokit Prometheus wrote:(WHY HAVEN'T YOU ALL MOVED TO O-CAL-AAAAAAAAAAAAAA~!?! /whine)If by this you mean Ocala, FL, the reason is all the gamers are in Gainesville and they've been sucked out of the surrounding counties. :)
Boo! Hiss! Gainesville is so much less awesome than Ocala! Everyone should move to Ocala, where it's... a... smaller... community... wait...
Also, my family and work are in Europe, and I have no idea whether I'd be able to find at least an equal-paying source of employment in the 'States...
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaan. Europe's got everything. (Well, Western Europe's got (almost) everything. Eastern Europe, I don't know about, but it certainly didn't when I lived there, in the 90s. I hear the Pollo-, her, the good people of Poland are having a great time with RPGs from Gorbacz and Drjek. :D)
EDIT:
I'm both hyped up for our first combat and simultaneously ready for us to rush in, and Val to be fine, but trapped under a book case that fell on her, or something.
Holy crap - is that blood on the nearby wagon?! Nevermind - Rywokit's ready to devour the very souls of those that dare attempt a home invasion on Val for whatever nefarious purpose they may have! >:(
Rywokit Prometheus |
Now that's just not true.
...
We no more have common sense in the political mob than the USA does.
Ah, well, I know of no particular mass of folk who do, in the arena of politics...
trawets71 |
Lazur Anil wrote:Rywokit Prometheus wrote:(WHY HAVEN'T YOU ALL MOVED TO O-CAL-AAAAAAAAAAAAAA~!?! /whine)If by this you mean Ocala, FL, the reason is all the gamers are in Gainesville and they've been sucked out of the surrounding counties. :)Boo! Hiss! Gainesville is so much less awesome than Ocala! Everyone should move to Ocala, where it's... a... smaller... community... wait...
Ocala isn't really much smaller if at all when you consider what is considered Ocala and Gainesville (including more than city limits). Ocala is just just... older and horseyer.
Lived in Gainesville for 18 years and if I could get a decent job there I'd be there now. It's got it's issues, which the surrounding counties don't have, but it's a great town. Ocala's nice too. A friend of mine lived down there. Did a lot of drinking at his house 20 years ago.
GM Viskous |
You shoul all move to Northern California, then our time zones could be in synch and I can laugh at all of you suffering out of tower allergies!
GM Viskous |
Rywokit
Me
Locke
Lazur
Allen
Jack
Have roll20 accounts.
Anyone else?
How about google drive?
I know Rywokit doesn't.
Lazur Anil |
I've got a roll20 account. Got google drive as well. They are easy enough to get. Either really.
Allen Starskipper |
I have Roll20...not too familiar with it, but I've got it.
I miss living in northern california...really nice weather...and snowdrift like piles of insects during some parts of the year.
GM Viskous |
So the big question is! Does Raven have roll20?
If so I will start uploading maps and avatars.
This would allow for fog of war and tactical combatiness!
By the way Tac, I might be able to upload tokens for Gob Smash with our paizo character faces.
Analise Rodhire |
I have roll20... but I won't be able to access it for the foreseeable future.
Lazur Anil |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
...and someone has attacked. So much for making friends with our first robot! :D
Isn't that how this game works. Meet new and interesting creatures and kill them and take their stuff? :)
Jack Homini |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The murderhobo is strong with us.
I actually like to vie for non-murderhoboism when I play, even when I'm playing a damage dealing barbarian... because I get more from interaction than combat... unless of course, the combat is clearly good vs evil. I can roll with the fights though. =)
Non-murderhoboism, can we start a cult?
Tacticslion |
Best character I've ever played had next to zero combat ability (1d4+1 damage via his dagger), and was all social skills, appraise, and knowledge, plus charm suggestion, and detect thoughts. Glorious. :D
EDIT: ^ 8th level, by the way. (That should tell you how often I waded into combat.)
Locke Tresslar |
I'm not sure if it's possible to actually help the malfunctioning robot anyway, so I don't fault Lazur for RPing a frantic shoot-first-ask-where-more-bullets-are-later concerned family member.
What follows are some spoilers for which I am not sure how everyone feels about yet, so feel free to disregard if you do not want to use the discussion thread for this type of talk. Also, let me know if this bothers you, and I will stop (@GM and everyone)
I'm almost of a mind to have Locke run in to the other side of the wall that the robot is attacking and helping it break through, so it can access whatever it's trying to reach and alleviate the danger. Assuming his Knowledge check succeeded, of course. This idea comes mostly from the fact that with no ranged weapons, Locke really can't help much than to add some brain power to solving the situation as space in that room is pretty limited. Also, with his Numerian Archaeologist trait, I am pretty certain there is a chance Locke may actually recognize this type of robot, and therefore have some guess that destroying it may not be in the overall best interest.
Truth be told, Locke would have some very strong suspicions now that the fire of Black Hill may hold other secrets of the technological kind due to the presence of this machine. The Star Warriors complicity in the case may no longer be "certain." :P
Jack Homini |
Apologies. I was making light of the situation, not the player. Taking out the thing is an appropriate action.
I hear you Tac; I have a 9th level Detective whose a perception machine with social skills. Crap in combat. (Gallant Inspiration is an amazing spell though).
GM Viskous |
So apparently you all missed that the door in front of Analise is closed. But not to change the flow we'll make it open as her speed bumped it open when she zapped in.
Lazur has rolled a misfire, except he doesn't have a shot on the creature in that position as of now.
As to Locke, I noticed that you were missing your IG campaign trait and was thinking it was archeologist so you would understand Androffan.
The knowledge check is considered untrained without the technologist feat or Local Ties trait.
Not sure how Analise understands Androffan? It looks like I missed it, only androids or those who took Numerian Archeologist or spend a point in Linguistics can know Androffan. That was my fault for not catching earlier.
Analise Rodhire |
So apparently you all missed that the door in front of Analise is closed. But not to change the flow we'll make it open as her speed bumped it open when she zapped in.
Lazur has rolled a misfire, except he doesn't have a shot on the creature in that position as of now.
As to Locke, I noticed that you were missing your IG campaign trait and was thinking it was archeologist so you would understand Androffan.
The knowledge check is considered untrained without the technologist feat or Local Ties trait.Not sure how Analise understands Androffan? It looks like I missed it, only androids or those who took Numerian Archeologist or spend a point in Linguistics can know Androffan. That was my fault for not catching earlier.
Oh, hyerp a derp, sorry. I'll remove that from her languages and take Common, C#, Java, Binary, and HTML as her languages :)
Computer geeks for the win!
I also won't be available for the weekend, period.
GM Viskous |
Once I get a summary post up please refrain from action posts until I start the next round. The next round starting info should hit within a few minutes after the summary. Mostly I am fiddling with formatting in the entry box since I try and write this up in notepad then paste over.
Responding verbally and descriptively to actions is fine, and knowledge checks are fine, but initiative order means that Analise's action that are declared probably won't actually happen! Since a bunch of people act before her.
GM Viskous |
Weekends off, got it!
This weekend for real, as I'm out on Sunday for a concert in the Bay Area.
Locke Tresslar |
As to Locke, I noticed that you were missing your IG campaign trait and was thinking it was archeologist so you would understand Androffan.
The knowledge check is considered untrained without the technologist feat or Local Ties trait.
Ah! Sorry, when I updated Locke's profile using the official Investigator instead of the beta rules, I think his extra trait got overwritten. And noted regarding the Knowledge (engineering). I guess that makes that skill rank and his Craft (mechanical) rank less useful...ah well. Live and learn.
Unless you'll allow a switch from his Toughness feat to Technologist. I think you may have posted it, but I mainly went by what HeroLab had loaded. I don't think the tech guide or Iron Gods' PG is available yet there, so I didn't even remember Technologist was available to Locke. :/