GM thunderspirit's Reign of Winter AP

Game Master thunderspirit

I'm pretty sure all of you have played a Paladin at one point in time or another, or if not have played in a party with one. Paladin's used to be my favorite character, but alas I find them harder and harder to play I guess due to my "Ohh it would be so much easier if I was able to lie cheat and steal" methods. LOL

So in case any of you have forgotten a Paladin's code of conduct I'm going to post it here. I hope this code adds to the game's interactions, and not towards breaking us apart. Ohh and for the record Pathfinder's version is so much less restrictive than 1st edition.

Code of Conduct

A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

HA! Yeah, you're not restricted to a small number of magic items.

I find that the best way to let a Paladin be a paladin is to let them handle their code, but similarly let other characters be other characters. It totally makes sense for him to dislike poison, but also grudgingly let the thief use it.

Does Edward have a particular god he venerates? Some of those codes are available in some of the Paizo sources and comes with a lot of flavor.

There's lawful GOOD, and LAWFUL good. (and LAWFUL GOOD of course)

One of my all time favorite characters was a paladin.

There are several different ways to play one: altruistic, jaded, the one who begrudgingly does the right thing even when seeming to contemplate something darker. And then, like Ali said, there's the lawful one, and the good one, and the lawful good one.

Moreover, I'm pretty flexible with a Paladin as a GM...in no small part cos no one likes to fall (unless that's the plan from jump).

he does follow Apsu. I was going with the dislike of poison straight from the description I posted above, but if there are codes already written, then I would love to look at em.

I'm not quite sure exactly what you mean by being Altruistic that seems more like a NG to me someone who always does what's good not mindful of the actual act of completing that act is good or evil, if it creates &/or uses order or chaos.

I see how one can be jaded and lawful good, and Edward might become that but for now he's that kid who has a vision of a perfect world.

So explain what you mean by lG, Lg, and LG. I'm not getting the subtle difference that you would use in game.

I appreciate that your pretty flexible with a paladin, and would hope that you would give me a warning if I'm getting close to a line or obliterating that line if that time ever comes.

I'm also still suprised that every character had a dissenting opine against it. I have a feeling that at your table if I ever made a sunder specialist I would be run out of the state :P ME GOLD ME GOLD WHAT YA DOIN TO ME GOLD hahahah I'm just pickin

One of my all time favorite characters was (IS... I'll finish that campaign if I have to hold the DM at sword point!) a knight of Solamnia. He rushed his way through the Order of the Crown, and has NO interested in the order of the Rose. He's a knight-clerist through and through. No edition of the game has ever perfectly captured what I think a knight-clerist ought to be. That character, named Maþurin, was built as a fighter/cleric with Knight of Solamnia as a prestige class, but I think the ACG's warpriest might finally be what I want. Not to mention the fact that Warpriest of Kiri-Jolith just sounds awesome.

So explain what you mean by lG, Lg, and LG. I'm not getting the subtle difference that you would use in game.

I'll use the example that brought it to mind.

Phil was in that group, and he had a paladin as well, part of the Harbingers. Once he left the gaming group when he moved away from NH, we kept his character (Barrett) as a cohort for Ross (I'd decided on the Leadership feat even before I realized how good it was; Ross, by definition, had to be a leader).

when Phil came to town for a session, he played Barrett, and we (mainly, I think, Chris and I) saw a pretty stark contrast to the way he played Barrett, and I played Ross. Ross' main M.O. was to protect and defend goodly folk, through adherance to law and order. Barrett, on the other hand, was definitely "Adhere to law and order, and in that way goodly folk will be protected and defended."

It's basically how you look at each axis--which one takes precedence. not to say that Barrett wasn't "good," because he definitely was. But his focus was much more on the "Law" axis, whereas Ross, while clearly lawful, was at least slightly more willing to bend the law, or make exceptions, if he thought th egreater good would be thus served.

Part of this, I'm sure, was tha tRoss was the leader of a militant order---the highest earthly authority--and it could be argued that he had a tad more leeway in that regard. Barrett was his right hand, his Lieutenant General, and was devoted to protecting The Cause, so it's understandable that he was far more predisposed to Following The Rules, Dammit.

man, even writing this out makes me miss Ross somethin' fierce. he really was the perfect storm of a character, with another player (Phil) who shared his vision and a DM (Chris) who was not afraid to let the players literally change the world. (Ross became a major political, and theological, player in his region--and was on the cusp of becoming a major military player, second only to his king! never mind his magical prowess which, thanks to rare spells and prestiege class abilities, was literally unmatched!! Oh, and don't forget his god-gifted sword)

Joe if I were the DM I'd run your sunder specialist from the table just because of the headache of sundering things ;-)

Yeah, to me the capitalization is which part of your alignment you put the emphasis on.

I have always played my paladin's L&G for two reasons. One it really is one of the limiting things to being a paladin. Second, I learned from a strict DM, and that's the way I've always done it.

Now with it being a little more flexible I'm sure I could work something out, but I also think that it would be fun to develop his code through game play. His god is Apsu, who for all intents and purposes has walked away from this realm, so developing a code through game play might be cool. I know I never finished writing out the back story, but his mentor and teacher was essentially a 1/2 Dragon cleric he guesses, or just a polymorphed dragon for all Edward knows.

It will also be a writing challenge for me, because I am not a lawful good individual.

So for now I think I'm going to start Edward as LG, not sure which one of those might become the lower case, but I'm sure the party will make it be one of them.

Just a few ideas to maybe spur your thinking.

One

Two

Three

Four

I also like some of the alignment charts; they're dreadfully simplistic, but can convey the idea with known personas. Here are a few of those.

Then there's this and this, which are pretty self-explanatory.

Now those have me chuckling while I sit at an airport waiting for a package to deliver.

Awesome!
I like the Captain America and Batman ones the best.

Just a few ideas to maybe spur your thinking.

One

Two

Three

Four

I also like some of the alignment charts; they're dreadfully simplistic, but can convey the idea with known personas. Here are a few of those.

Then there's this and this, which are pretty self-explanatory.

Its funny, I never thought of Barrett as being a Lawful good, with the emphasis on the Law. But I can see why you say that. He was the kind of guy who would keep his word even if it would bring his death. He was kinda "stupidly honorable" with some things.

Merry Christmas guys - From me and Vanessa :-)

Happy Christmas

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a safe place for your PCs to rest! ;-)

Merry Christmas everyone!! A safe place indeed.... Also remember the reason for the season.

RETRO

Vojtek's leathery arm gently but firmly halts Edward on his way towards the fire with the poison.

Are you planning to destroy that? Those are the spoils of battle, and we are all entitled to them. We all risked maiming or death in that fight equally. Let's talk about what we should do as a group first. It is the only just and fair course to take.

Can't we just, in the interest of everyone having fun, say that Edward hates poison, but we use it?

I'm hoping we get there, but I like the chance to develop our characters a little with this… I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. Joe you can play Edward any way you want but I hope we get to Chris' goal above. If anyone gets mad about the discussion - I'll drop it immediately.

I'm hoping we get there, but I like the chance to develop our characters a little with this… I'm not trying to be argumentative at all. Joe you can play Edward any way you want but I hope we get to Chris' goal above. If anyone gets mad about the discussion - I'll drop it immediately.

./agreed

Yes Vojtek I am, and yes you are.. actually were entitled to them. Which is why, before I claimed them, I asked if it was ok for me to take the poison as my only share of the spoils. To which nobody voiced any objection.

If it's monetary value your concerned with, I am also going to assume that the cloak Kappi is now wearing far exceeds the value of the poison, but to me this isn't about the gold piece value of treasure. The cloak is best suited for him, so it should be his.

Now since the poison vials are my only share of the treasure from this fight I can presumably do with as I see fit. Can I be blamed that if before agreeing to letting me take the poison that it was everyone's assumption that I would use them in a future conflict? No I can't, but neither can you for it would be a logical way to think my friend, so I had a choice to make. Either I put them in the bottom of my pack, and never let them see the light of day and dispose of them in secret at a later date, or start this conversation and speak of my values and beliefs up front right here, right now because I don't think that friends nay not just friends but companions who have spilled blood together shouldn't be in the practice of deceiving each other with silly parlor tricks or plays on words, since to work as a team you need to trust each other.

So I ask you this would you rather that I let them sit dormant in my pack and you would never know my motivation, or destroy them here and now, and have the conversation?

Loosing the opportunity at some of the other spoils that would benefit me is a price I'm willing to pay for my morals and beliefs by the destruction of the poison. It is the kind of man my mentor raised me to be.

"But remember this Dragon-follower, Kappi taking the cloak also benefits us a team because now Kappi is a more effectual adventurer. By taking your spoils, I assumed you too had the group in mind. You didn't. You lessened our efficacy. And to boot you did it with reasoning that begs a question*, which is fallacious. Your morals are expensive and I daresay still quite deceptive. You could have spoken of your intentions overtly before forcing us to accept your actions."

*While Davosh is far more intelligent than I am in real life, I doubt the lingo of real world logic is really a thing to him. I mean begging the question officially, not like most people use it."

Ooc - note the poison has not been destroyed yet. Vojtek stopped him short of the fire.

Change my mood to subjunctive and my tense to future.

Edward, and probably all of you, you are much smarter than I am, I'm a simple man. These things are tools. I say we use them for good. There is nothing evil about a knife, but if you use it to maim and torture a helpless person, you are doing evil. YOU are the problem, not the knife.

Vojtek looks confused.

We had a shaman in the village on the tundra by the edge of the ice where I grew up. He was unable to use metal weapons as a condition of his nature-faith. I believe here in the south lands you would call him a doo-dad. Metal weapons were against his religion, but if he were here and we found a sword no one would expect him to destroy it.

And I think I agree with Davosh too… Vojtek looks at him in awe of the man's intellect, then continues Things we find that can be used for the benefit and Survival of the group should be used that way. If we part ways further down the trail we seem to be honorable men, I think we can reach an agreement to division of the spoils.

Vojtek glances at Ali and belatedly adds, and an honorable woman too awkwardly.

Until then I think if we find something you object to, simply don't use it. If you find we are acting with wicked hearts, I will stand with you in opposition to that … umm.. person.

Vojtek glances at Ali and belatedly adds, and an honorable woman too awkwardly.

Ali grins, and bows to Vojtek.

Yeah, um, I think it's a little weird--you haven't voiced an objection to Vojtek or me gutting someone with a sword, or Davosh using his evil eye whammy, or Kappi smacking someone with his axe while they're surrounded (flanked). I don't see what's the big deal about poison. She shrugs.

this is hard arguing against points I believe in lol. My response to Davosh is how I imagine it after the correction.

Edward listens to each person in turn, and responds politely with a steady tone.

Davosh where I agree with you that the cloak helps Kappi, I would argue the point that I have lessened our efficacy, if anything it remains the same. You claim my morals are expensive, I claim that there is no price to great to violate your morals, and I did offer compensation with regards to the other treasure. As far as me being deceptive, yes I could have been more upfront in my intentions. But my mentor taught that experiencing an event teaches much more than just words, so I am using this event to show everyone my views, while learning yours. Also know that I could have been deceptive, but chose to reveal my intentions before the actions were done, thus forcing this conversation. Which is the only thing I have forced at this point. We met each other not to long ago, and I hope we grow a stronger team by getting through this

Vojtek you might be a simple man, but I can't wield a sword like you do. Our strengths lie in differing areas. You make two fine points about the wielder of the knife being evil, and about your Nature Shaman or Druid for those of you from the south. See in his beliefs from his God was that he can't use metal weapons, or he might be denied access to the power granted from his God. His God might not answer his prayers for healing, controlling the weather, or helping keep him alive during a snow storm. See your Shaman and I have similarities. We both gain our gifts through worship, and although I'm not a "priest" I have a connection to Apsu that is in my opinion even more special that that of one of his priests. I was taught that once that bond is formed between the God and the person each and ever action the person takes or even allows to happen in his presence either strengthens or lessens the bond between them.

Edward takes a breath, and see's that he is loosing some of his audience I'm sorry for being so long winded, but let me cut to the point. Poison is different from a knife while it might not be inherently evil in itself, it's use outside of medicinal values by most peoples standards is frowned upon as distasteful, and the user of said poison is considered that much more of a bad person, or one that is closer to evil than one who doesn't use it. I am just trying to protect you all from the path that possibly leads to evil. Which brings me back to my point above, if I comport myself as evil, or allow evil acts in my presence I might be punished by my God, and thus be less effectual. I do not feel any evil souls in any of you, and if I have any say in it, I never will.

He turns his gaze to Ali Ali quite simply for what I have just said. It is in my opinion that poison is at best socially unacceptable, and quite possibly leads one to a path of evil by using that kind of tool. The other ones could be evil with the right or shall I say wrong intent. Poison is by it's nature the wrong intent to begin with

...Poison is by it's nature the wrong intent to begin with

Well, I could probably introduce you to a few snakes and spiders who wouldn't agree with that, but...look, I don't want to mess up your idea of morality by my actions, but by the same token, I don't expect you to meddle in mine--until I start actually becoming An Evil Villain. I still don't see how my stabbing someone is any less a step toward evil than poisoning someone. Lots of paths possibly lead to evil, including magic--I hope you don't intend to stop me from casting spells!

How can we possibly be murder hobo's if we think stabbing someone is evil? Hahahahha

Could we agree to avoid cold-blooded murder by poison or any other means? I think smearing poison or magic oils onto weapons for use in a stand-up fight can be a good thing, especially if we use those enhanced weapons to do good. I think the better we are at smiting evil, the more your Apsu will like it, no?

"I will never ask you to wield this tool Edward. To each their own if it doesn't harm me. Now I'm off to sleep."

once we have values for the treasure, I'll be ready to escort the lady.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Alas no I don't believe that Vojtek, and I wouldn't wield them even if you did ask Davosh. But Davosh it might not harm you physically, but it harms your soul which lasts far longer than your physical body. Edward pauses a second.

I can see that I have a different view from well surprisingly the rest of you. So I'm sure everyone here agrees to disagree with me. To me the use of poison is repugnant, and unnecessary. You see it as a tool to make your life easier, sometimes the easier path isn't the best path for your sanity or soul. I agree with Davosh it's time for sleep

Kappi, I don't know if you are just role playing with your comment on needing training with the short sword, but I did find this on the srd

Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

I will post on the main thread tomorrow, it's late, but there are some things I want to say/accomplish

Kappi, I don't know if you are just role playing with your comment on needing training with the short sword, but I did find this on the srd

Rogues are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

I will post on the main thread tomorrow, it's late, but there are some things I want to say/accomplish

Im aware rogues are proficient w/ sh swords. That was just role playing for Kappi. His experience is with tomahawks, spears/javelins, and knives. I figured he could get a "lesson" from each of you (except Davosh) in the basics just for game sake.

Regarding chill touch:

This post in the FAQ addresses it.

This means (to me, anyway), that:

• you can use chill touch via the Magus Spellstrike class feature to deliver the spell through your weapon as many times as you have levels; and
  
• you can deliver more than one use of chill touch via the Magus Spell Combat class feature.
  

I loves me some shocking grasp with my black blade Magus (particularly using my Intensified Spell feat in conjunction with my Magical Lineage trait — deliciousness), but chill touch is terrific for a Magus. :-)

I am so glad someone posted something. I have been refreshing the game all day like every 15 minutes.

Even if it is just a little rules-lawyering. It fulfills my inner geek.

Happy New Year guys!

Happy New Year

It fulfills my inner geek.

that's what SHE said!!

HNY

Happy New Year!

I'd've been a Roman April Fool, cos I think the new year should start in Spring.

But Happy New Year anyway. :-)

Happy New Year everyone. So apparently I had a nice post typed out, and either never hit send or it didn't post. That or I fell asleep.. I can't remember

d'oh I've seen that movie! :-(

Hey so last weekend I met four strangers randomly and we got into a big fight with some drug dealers. We ended up killing them and taking all the drug money as well as a few awesome AR's and an Uzi. The amount of money was more than any of our life savings, so even though they are strangers, we decided to take the money we found and we all pitched in to buy a car.

They seem like a decent group, so I think I'll wander the DC metropolitan area with them killing bad men for a while.

Hey so last weekend I met four strangers randomly and we got into a big fight with some drug dealers. We ended up killing them and taking all the drug money as well as a few awesome AR's and an Uzi. The amount of money was more than any of our life savings, so even though they are strangers, we decided to take the money we found and we all pitched in to buy a car.

They seem like a decent group, so I think I'll wander the DC metropolitan area with them killing bad men for a while.

It sounds kinda ridiculous when you put it that way....

I'll sneak up behind the next guy and stab him in the back, and if he doesn't fall, we can keep him distracted so we can both brain him easier!

(I can't find a Youtube clip from True Lies: "Have you ever killed anyone?" <uncomfortable hesitation> "Yes, but they were all bad!")

I don't think you're free this weekend… But I'm down. I have a membership at a range here in A-town.

I know I am bringing shame to Captains everywhere with the low-quality spreadsheet… but whatever. Quick and dirty.

This is Vojtek's Progress Spreadsheet towards A History of Scars. Feel free to witness his gradual disfigurement.

From a character development standpoint, I picture his scarring to make him look more and more draconic. Understanding scars will be random and unpredictable, I'm just imagining a scaly awful-ness to go along with his horrible snaggle tooth.

(LOL- autocorrect tried to make that "snuggle tooth" which is the exact opposite of what we're talking about here)

Impressive. You know, you can be all munckinny and cut yourself a couple hp before going to bed each night (enough for natural healing ot take care of). But you probably already thought of that...

Impressive. You know, you can be all munckinny and cut yourself a couple hp before going to bed each night (enough for natural healing ot take care of). But you probably already thought of that...

But yet it is still impressive how quick you came up with the idea and response !!!! Munchkin ALERT hahahaha