Dain if we do that there will come a point where you want an item and cannot afford it. Or Velika wants an item and cannot afford it. Or I want an item and cannot afford it. There is no way that magic items and value will ever be even across the board unless we just determine to sell everything and you can buy it back from the store at full cost later if you somehow get the gold. ALA every living game.
I know people have said that we are not going to make people pay for nifty items they cannot afford but Holys does not have 1200 gp and people are still saying he should pay for the wand. A consumable item that loses its value quickly as we level.
And the wand is nice, but in the long run not that important to Holys. He needs to build up his character as well. And if he doesn't use it up in a few levels it will be worth selling it and then we all get the share. If we find a Wand of Cure Serious Wounds and you had to decide as the healer to give us all 1200 GP to use it or sell it so you can get something you need to survive would you really be cool with paying us off for that? I can tell you I wouldn't. Or are we going to sell the wand of CSW? Except since no one in the group has 1200 gp I guess we would just have to sell it under your view?
With 4115, even if we buy more group items, anyone can have a magic weapon. Or magic armor, or save towards a stat bump item when we find one for purchase, or do anything else.
We can vote on it. If you all disagree with me we can vote on it and if I am the only one who feels this way we can do it your way. But I am positive it will come back to bite people.
I am not too fussed either way.
Generally I often treat healing items as party loot (as generally everyone needs healing all the time) but not other wands. So I'm happy for Holys to pay full cost for the Fireball wand (i.e. have it come out of his share, not counting as part loot), provided the rest of the party are ok for him to wait to pony up the cash he doesn't have yet later. And as noted if we get desperate or Holys changes his mind, we can always sell it.
What do you think Tilver? It looks like I am the only one who has this concern. If we want to do things evenly I will back off now.
I am rereading the posts now as I think I got a little confused about what was being proposed.
The way I typically do things is what Scott proposes. Uses Velika's arithmetic from the last page and assuming 50% sale price:
"Total loot value is 4000 + 5625 + 12500 = 22125. That comes to 4425 each. That means Tilver, Dain and Velika each get 4425. Silas gets a flail and 425. Holys gets the wand and puts 1200 in the group pot."
(Looking over sheets again Holys has about 900 gp spare in-hand, so can pay off 900 gp of the 1200 gp he owes the group pot immediately.)
However, as noted, I don't particularly mind what method is done so long as nobody feels left out.
Silas, was that what you were proposing as well, or were you proposing someone else? Could you summarise what your preferred method would be?
I think items of use should be kept and counted as group treasure and used until we would not need them and then sold.
Anything sold should be divided evenly between all party members. Paying off party members to keep items seems poor to me.
But as I seem to be the only one who cares we can skip it. The flail doesn't matter to me. We can sell it and split however the group wishes.
I've largely been staying quiet because I really dislike loot dynamics. At some point a line gets drawn and inequities fall on either side of it. Reasonable people disagree. I think everyone has said it, but the most important things are that useful items get to the people who can use them, and that there's some (small) incentive to keep items rather than selling them all.
It appears the difference in what Silas is proposing and what Velika is proposing comes down to what is considered 'group loot' and therefore exempt from the current division (but not nec future divisions). It would be better for the group for Silas to use the +1 flaming flail, but that's not really where he wants his character to be tied to, so he would like to still have a share to develop his character's needs and is willing to give up the weapon to do so. I'd feel the same way (and Tilver can actually use the flail too). And the wand is even worse since at some point it'll be used up and have no value.
But that method also makes for huge inequality on the front end with only promises that the flail will be given up at some point and the party compensated. At what point you stop considering something 'group loot' if a character starts to build around it?
If we have to vote, I guess I'll vote for Holys' method that he detailed two posts up. If Silas doesn't want the flail, then that means he gets full money value. I do dislike this because it pushes people to sell items that are neat, but not critical.
Each level, we should need to assess total equipment value for each character as we go because that wand will slowly lose value as charges come off. Eventually Holys will be behind the curve. But while that happens, everyone else will be stronger and able to survive because of those charges and then we'll throttle back the other way.
"Hey, you know what would needlessly prolong this conversation?" He asked despite no one needing an answer to that question. "A third idea of how to divide loot!"
You could split the baby.
If the concern is loot inequality over time, you could simply add up your current loot value each time you level up and discuss what to do if there are any significant differences.
I do this periodically in our Iron Gods game (and our Shattered Star game before that) and I usually find that there is one front-runner with twice as much as the average and one guy way behind at around half. Giving that trailing guy a bigger cut next time could easily solve the problem.
My parents are in town, so my posting may be spotty until Tuesday.
The next chapter can begin at any time. Has everyone had all the downtime they need?
Well, we still need to sell off that shield (and possibly the flail?) and then people will likely want to spend some of the loot.
Also, Dain will use some downtime to try and gather information about Wuntad and his Litorian and Lizardfolk companions (see Gameplay thread).
Yes, I was looking at the map and there are a few armories and shops that might have something interesting I would like to visit and one of them might be interested in buying the items and dreams of finding a set of Eyes of the Eagle.
Do we want to do a quick vote and move past this?
We have Velika's suggestion, Silas' suggestion, and GMs compromise suggestion.
So we are doing shopping. Do we want to just go with Velika's suggestion or the GM's Compromise? I would just like to figure out for sure what we as a group are going with.
My vote is:
Assuming Holys keeps the Wand of Fireball and assuming Dain keeps the Incense of Visions (I agree with Silas that it could be very useful, and Dain seems a fitting character to hold onto it, unless someone else wants to keep it).
Including the incense: loot value is approximately 4000 (flail) + 5625 (wand) + 12500 (shield) + 400 (incense) = 22525 gp. Each share would be 4505 in a perfect world.
If we are selling the flail and shield.
Assuming we get the approximate value of 4000 + 12500 = 16500 gp:
Holys' share = the wand
Dain's share = incense + 3825 gp
Silas', Tilver's, and Velika's share = 4225 gp
If Silas wants to keep the flail
Assuming we sell the shield for 12500:
Holys' share = wand
Silas' share = flail + 225 gp
Dain's share = incense + 3825 gp
Tilver's and Velika's share = 4225 gp
If Holys needs some spending cash (or if Silas needs some more in the 'keeping flail' scenario), I am sure those of us getting larger coin shares could agree to chip in up to a couple hundred each to make that happen.
Numbers might need to be tweaked a bit if sale values of shield (and possibly flail) are different.
Remember that sale prices are half the item's value. Thus, the +1 flaming heavy flail, worth 4358 gp, sells for 2179 gp, etc.
The values I used are what I thought the (approximate) half price would be for each item.
I thought the "flaming' property was +1 equivalent, making the weapon price equivalent to a +2 weapon, or 8000 + masterwork weapon price (I assume thats the 358 part?). Sell for half = 4179gp
Yeah, you're right. It's also not 358, it's 308. So 8308. My mistake.
Adjusting the above calculations with more precise sale value for the flail (+2 equivalent, value 8308gp, sale value 4154gp) and the shield (+5 equivalent, value 25320 , sale value 12660)
Including the incense: loot value is 4154 (flail) + 5625 (wand) + 12660 (shield) + 400 (incense) = 22839 gp. Each share would be 4567 gp and 8 sp in a perfect world.
If we are selling the flail and shield.
Assuming we get the sale value of 4154 + 12660 = 16814 gp:
Holys' share = the wand
Dain's share = incense + 3903 gp, 5 sp
Silas', Tilver's, and Velika's share = 4303 gp, 5 sp
If Silas wants to keep the flail
Assuming we sell the shield for 12660:
Holys' share = wand
Silas' share = flail + 149 gp, 5 sp
Dain's share = incense + 3903 gp, 5 sp
Tilver's and Velika's share = 4303 gp, 5 sp
If Holys needs some spending cash (or if Silas needs some more in the 'keeping flail' scenario), I am sure those of us getting larger coin shares could agree to chip in up to a couple hundred gp each to make that happen.
Ok, so we will do that. I will hold onto the Flail for now and check to see if I can find an Eyes of the Eagle to help spot trouble and if not I will just keep the flail.
You might be able to keep the flail and buy the Eyes (which look like they go for 2500 gp). After purchasing thd healing wand, Dain will still have 500 GP left over which he would be happy to contribute to the "better eyes for Silas" fund.
See Gameplay thread. Silas found the eyes.
That would still put me well short. The flail is not that important as I have Arcane Strike and almost nothing else that requires swift actions and that leaves me enough to buy into the Delver's.
Holys has 900 gp in-hand, which will cover part of the excess value of the wand. Does the extra 900 gp mean Silas ends up with enough? He can have the cash.
Don't want to interrupt the flow of the game so I'll summarize here: Velika gets Alakabam enchanted to +1 (2000 gp), buys 20 bullets (30 gp), and if available gets a scroll of Versatile Weapon (150 gp) and a scroll of Comprehend Languages (25 gp).
And is ready to move on.
Sweet!
I have a magical Falchion. I do not think with the split above you owe money so save it.
A very happy Easter to all of you!
You too!
My parents brought British chocolate when they visited, which makes us happy. ;)
I'm just going to leave this here for your enjoyment:
I only just saw that 4d6 post. That's great!
(This month is a bit crazy for me, working a ton of extra hours so I apologize if I'm out of touch a bit)
So I'm looking through the Pathfinder rules, and I'm not seeing what skill would be used to imitate someone else's voice. The Disguise skill obviously covers looking like someone else, but says nothing about sounding like them. I'd be inclined to use the Disguise skill for this (it's already a pretty narrow skill), but I could see the Bluff skill as a possibility as well. How would you rule it, Scott?
I can see arguments in both directions. Neither is precisely right. Ultimately I think Disguise for the voice, Bluff for the ideas expressed.
I've got a week of 12+ hour days ahead so expecting to be sparse again... sorry!
Hey guys and gal! Let's push on through this scene like it was Pythoness House, eh? We've got more than a decade of material to go! :-p
Traveling tomorrow. I'll be out of pocket for a day or so, but after that, I should be able to post.
Sounds good on pushing through.
Hi all, not sure what to do with Holys here, as he isn't stealthy and can't see in the dark... suggestions? Stay with Tilver in Tavern Row?
Stick with Silas? He didn't roll well with his stealth anyway and he planned to stay a little farther back and use tracking to keep up with Dain instead.
DISCUSSION
So with the end of the "Cult Meeting Scene," Chapter Two of Night of Dissolution is over. At this point, my plan is to switch over to Chapter One of The Banewarrens. I know it seems like you just got a line on something interesting in Oldtown, but even had we continued to Chapter Three of Night of Dissolution, events would have intervened to delay that investigation.
We will now do Chapters 1-4 of The Banewarrens and get back to Night of Dissolution when we're all collecting Social Security.
As published, Night of Dissolution is intended to run from Level 4-9, one level per each of the 6 chapters. As published The Banewarrens is intended to run from Level 6-10 across ten chapters. If I were to run them granting XP as expected, you'd be far too high a level by the time you finished the adventure. So I'm still going to cap the adventure at 10th level (especially given that Pathfinder characters are much stronger than the D&D 3.0 characters these adventures were written for!) What that means is that you'll be levelling more slowly than typical, but at what is an appropriate rate for the opposition in the story.
So for instance, Chapter One of The Banewarrens assumes you are 6th level. We're going to do it at 5th and you'll make 6th at the start of Chapter Two.
Sounds good!
FYI, I have been having trouble getting on the site the past few days - not sure if that's just me.
Also, I will be away and probably incommunicado from Fri 1 until Mon 11 June. For work (boo) but in Hawai'i (yay)!
I haven't had any problems with the site, but I've been whacked out with migraines, so I haven't tried much.
I have pneumonia. I'll be out for a few days.
Blech. Get some rest and feel better!
FYI - a combination of pneumonia and moving house means I'll be offline for most the week. And the week after that (if alive) I'll be at GenCon.
I am back from Gen Con, but have no Internet at home ( the house I just bought wasn’t wired for it) until Friday the 10th at the earliest and can’t access it at work. I’ll do my best with my iPad until then, but it’s going to be slow.
Welcome back! Hope Con was a blast. And congrats on the new house!
Oy vey.
Let me tell you what's going on with me. First, I'm not dead nor fading away. However, after a week of illness and a week of reasonably ill vacationing, I'm now stranded without access to the Internet (I'm writing this from my mother's house, which is definitely not a long-term solution).
Then, the team of electricians who were going to wire my house were in an automobile accident and several were injured. So still no Internet.
Other electricians are coming to wire my house for the Internet and -hope- they can do it by next Friday.
Trying to stay connected by iPad has proved too difficult when I can summon at most 1 or 2 bars at my house. Thus, I'm just going to be offline for a bit. I'm sorry, but now you know why.
Here is an update on my situation:
GOOD NEWS:
At long last my house has been wired for Internet and my service is on.
BAD NEWS:
My computer seems to have suffered total failure in the move, possibly from static discharge. So I now have no computer. If it weren’t for bad luck I’d have had no luck at all lately.
THE PLAN:
I have ordered a new motherboard and CPU from NewEgg. They should arrive tomorrow. I built the computer myself and so should be able to rebuild it. I hope to be up and running by the Monday the 27th, but see my previous comments on luck...
NOTE:
If this is a game I play in, I’m sorry for my absence. If this is a game I GM, I’m very sorry. If this is a game I’m supposed to be GMing but have not yet begun... it gets better.
How goes the PC rebuild?
Supposedly the parts were delivered today...
Okee-dokee. I think we're ready to roll.
After more than a month, I've finally gotten Internet access again. Seems as though the site's been down most of that time, so not much loss there.
On the other hand, I'm leaving on Monday the 3rd for a week at the beach with my kids and won't have any access out there, either. I'll try to catch up this weekend at the least.