GM Shady's Legacy of Eagles (Inactive)

Game Master shady18


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Sorry - and you may have detected this - this week has been a nightmare at work. Should be back to normal service tomorrow.


Damaged 0 | Hero Points 0 | Perception +0 | Initiative +0 | Fortitude 0 | Will 0 | Dodge 0| Parry 0 | Toughness 0 |

No worries GM-S. We'll keep til your ready


Init+ 5 | Dodge 8 Parry 8 Toughness 4/armored: 14 (10 impervious) | Fortitude 10 Will 9 | Perception +10 Insight +12 | Sword Damage DC 26 Improved Crit x2 | Hero Points: 1 | Fatigued

Sorry for the late notice - I'm offline until Tuesday. Please bot me if needed and otherwise assume Grace is listening quietly (for once).


Init+ 5 | Dodge 8 Parry 8 Toughness 4/armored: 14 (10 impervious) | Fortitude 10 Will 9 | Perception +10 Insight +12 | Sword Damage DC 26 Improved Crit x2 | Hero Points: 1 | Fatigued

And I'll be traveling Sunday-Wednesday. My posting may be sporadic.


Sorry about the delay on the next post, it's a little involved so I left it to (this) weekend ... should be out later today.


Init+ 5 | Dodge 8 Parry 8 Toughness 4/armored: 14 (10 impervious) | Fortitude 10 Will 9 | Perception +10 Insight +12 | Sword Damage DC 26 Improved Crit x2 | Hero Points: 1 | Fatigued

Hey guys -- random advice since you all obviously know Mutants and Masterminds. This isn't for this game, but I thought since you knew the system you'd be good to ask (but I will spoiler since it's totally off topic to this specific campaign):

My M&M question:
I'm trying to build a character based on someone from a TV show (Maggie Mui from the Japanese animation R.O.D the TV, which I'm sure you've never heard of). Like most people from the show she has "paper mastery" powers which allows her to transform paper into remarkable things.

Question 1: Obviously, to use her powers, she needs paper, and in some cases quite a lot of it. Should this be a complication, or an actual limitation/flaw applied to her power array?

Question 2: One of her abilities is to block attacks with a paper shield. It is powerful enough to "catch" bullets (the bullets splat against the shield like they were hitting a steel wall). She can use it on herself personally, but also use it on others or, with adequate paper, shape it into walls, spheres, and cubes that also protect others. She can activate the power pretty quickly--nearly instantly to protect someone else--though she tends to do nothing else when she's defending, so I'm guessing it's a standard action to defend, but she can combine it with the Interpose advantage somehow. Would this be a protection/force field effect or a deflect or simply an "enhanced dodge/parry" power, with appropriate Area-Shapeable and/or Affects Others extras? (An example of blocking bullets is here ((this isn't Maggie using it, but it works the same way). Maggie using it as an area effect can be seen here where she creates a whole wall to protect a crowd from an explosion. I realize even here this might technically be two (alternate) powers (parry vs dodge))

Your thoughts are appreciated.


Don't worry about the spoiler, I'm fine with the discussion.

No idea on Q1 but Q2 just sounds like an origami version of invisible girl (build in link; I'm guessing you already thought of it but the build in question tries to get a balanced version of the power, so it's a worthwhile look).


Female Human PL 10 Heroine | Str 0 Sta 0 Agl 1 Dex 3 Fgt 4 Int 2 Awe 7 Pre 4 | Dodge 10 Parry 4 Fort 2 Tough 0 Will 10 | Init +1 Grab +4 Throw +3 Unarmed +4 | Eldritch Bolt +3 (DC 27)

Q1: I'd say make it a complication that paper is necessary to use her powers.

Q2: I agree with GM Shady. Use the Invisible Woman as a template. It should be two different powers; Force Construct and Force Field.


Init+ 5 | Dodge 8 Parry 8 Toughness 4/armored: 14 (10 impervious) | Fortitude 10 Will 9 | Perception +10 Insight +12 | Sword Damage DC 26 Improved Crit x2 | Hero Points: 1 | Fatigued

Thanks folks! (Other thoughts are still welcome.) I hadn't seen the build for Invisible Woman so that's also helpful. Although I don't see how "force constructs" protects others/blocks attacks.


Re the gameplay thread, rather than go with the pattern of one line post followed by me typing in 3 paras of exposition, I'll wait for some more interaction from the party side.


Init+ 5 | Dodge 8 Parry 8 Toughness 4/armored: 14 (10 impervious) | Fortitude 10 Will 9 | Perception +10 Insight +12 | Sword Damage DC 26 Improved Crit x2 | Hero Points: 1 | Fatigued

While in general I encourage giving more time for interaction and appreciate your making a special note that you want to allow more for it, in this particular scene Gracie doesn't have much to say yet.

I will pipe in when I have something to say, and I hope any non-responses do not discourage allowing time for interaction later.


Good Knight Gracie wrote:

While in general I encourage giving more time for interaction and appreciate your making a special note that you want to allow more for it, in this particular scene Gracie doesn't have much to say yet.

I will pipe in when I have something to say, and I hope any non-responses do not discourage allowing time for interaction later.

Fine, but early warning - I think I am going to shut down this campaign. I've probably spent too much time on social encounters whereas maybe this player group wants more combat/action, but there seems to be an imbalance of some kind, such that the players are disengaging.


Male Hairy Highlander Halfbreed (ThirdSwede) Barbarian 9/King O' The North 5/Staffy Dad 7

Gutted to hear that - I for one think the balance has been spot on.

Guess I built a character that works in both environments (Eoten hulk smashing and Æthelweard in the social encounters), but know that might not be what others are looking for from the game.

With influences coming from Zenith (which is a very cerebral and lovecraftian plot/theme) the slow build and scene setting is key, but appreciate that more action orientated game is what folk are looking for.

Might we pause for a reflection - those that want to continue and immerse, and should anyone want to step away/be replaced then the opportunity is here??

Would hate to see the good work and background architecture go to waste. (that I know you've done since I'm familiar with the original scenario)


Init +4, dodge 4, parry 4, impervious toughness 16, Will 10, perception +10

That's a shame. I think it was about to get really good.


Init+ 5 | Dodge 8 Parry 8 Toughness 4/armored: 14 (10 impervious) | Fortitude 10 Will 9 | Perception +10 Insight +12 | Sword Damage DC 26 Improved Crit x2 | Hero Points: 1 | Fatigued

Wow, my perception has been totally different. Shady, based on the way you pushed things forward when the game started, I was presuming social interaction was discouraged and the main plot with the NPCs and action was the focus, and you were just trying to get us to move on (until your recent post upthread, which I took as a change in policy, not a reassertion of a previously established expectation).

For example, in the opening scene that started the game, we started to respond and interact and tried to get to know each other, and you started to push the scene forward even before we had finished the conversations we had started. You kept moving us from meeting the team to the briefing to getting on the helicopters -- all while we were still just trying to get to know each other. You even decided some of our comments happened after when we wanted them to occur (I said something that I meant to be said in the briefing room, and you pushed it forward to make it happen on the helicopters instead, effectively disallowing for a real response or reaction).

The message I received from that initial scenario was that conversation and interaction was discouraged and that the focus was to be on the action and plot. Indeed, I felt like my hand was slapped for trying to elongate the conversation. I actually thought about dropping out of the game right there because it looked like it was going to be railroad-plot heavy with very little player agency rather than roleplay-encouraging, but I decided to give it some time.

But because of the way things panned out early on, I intentionally scaled back on my roleplay. Even so, I've tried to engage players where I can and drop some seeds some people--whether NPCs or PC--could respond to if they wanted. That's been met with mixed success.

(And some of that "mixed" success has, I think, just been different posters having different amounts of time to devote to the game, rather than disinterest in interaction.)

And now we're just in a scene where my character just at the moment has little to say. She's an ingenue crimefighter, and she's never been in a situation like this before. She doesn't feel like she has the knowledge or skills to be participating in the briefing and would be better off just gathering information by listening (until she has a question). Also, I'll admit I just thought here we were supposed to receive a briefing and move on, not have a big conversation about our mission in a public place. I'll try to come up with something though. ((ETA: Rereading the thread, I also JUST now noticed that Grayland is there as well as Smith-Robinson, silly me.))

I am definitely game for continuing if everyone else is -- especially since it's so rare to find a M&M game on the boards (the few I've been in, the GMs have always had to bow out due to time limits).

But obviously there's been some presumptions made on my part, on others' parts, about what the game is or should be, that are unclear or misconstrued.

So I very much agree with Black Dow: I think it would be best to discuss and establish clear expectations on the following (since I'm sure other players are not thinking the way I am):

- Level of freeform interaction vs. pushing the narrative along/getting to the action. What does each of us want/expect out of this?

- How frequent should we/are we expected to post? This game seems to be feast or famine--sometimes it's quiet for days (sometimes we're waiting for a GM response), and then like today I log on and there's nine posts already. If someone can't post at a desired posting rate (once/day, once/week, whatever is established), then maybe that person should consider seeking a game that's better paced for their schedule. Anyone who can keep the schedule should be understood to post or at least check in at the expected rate, but not necessarily post more often (though of course I expect more frequent posting is acceptable).

- Any other expectations or goals we'd like to set for the game.

In a game I'm running, I try to urge my players (with only limited success unfortunately) to post in the discussion thread if they have nothing to say in the IC thread, just so I know they're still checking in and I'm not waiting for a response forever. Maybe it would also be helpful to try do that here, so we don't make assumptions about why someone's not posting (is it they have nothing to say, is it this isn't a good RP situation for them, is it that they're actually just not showing up?).

All this said... GM Shady, if you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. If you decide you don't want to continue that's your call -- but I'd consider it a real shame if you cancelled the game for believing the players wanted one thing when (at least some of us) actually want another.


Dodge 15, Parry 15, Toughness 5(3 without Defensive Roll), Fort 7, Will 10 | Perception +9 | Initiative +18

I will admit that there's been less action than I was expecting, but that hasn't stopped me from enjoying the campaign. I'm really invested in discovering the nature of this world-destroying cataclysm you've established.

Unfortunately, Lightning Blade is a conceited a@$&&&!, more concerned about his own identity than about the task at hand. The fact that his current disguise is actually less revealing than his signature costume is irrelevant - without the proper Lightning Blade look, all of his swagger and self-confidence is gone.

I've been trying to stay true to LB's character without being a detriment to the plot, but I'm starting to feel like this type of character doesn't fit with the tone you had in mind.


Thanks for the thoughtful posts. Let's give it another shot.

Gracie - apologies if I gave the wrong impression on the RP. The military (or paramilitary) characters simply tend to assume authority and tend to stamp on dissent. So it's not a case of me wanting to shut it down as a GM, just RP'ing the authority figures. I guess I also assume, having grown up in that (British pre-millenial) environment, that most of the characters will be fairly deferential in such circumstances, as well.

But it wasn't intended to limit RP.

On frequency of posts, couple of things from my side

- my job involves a fair amount of stress (especially just now) and a fair amount of travel. I'm writing this sitting in an airport. I do tend to log in each day when I can, however, and - if there's movement on a campaign - to try and respond. It may be the case there's nothing, if so I'll leave it. If someone has posted while I went round each campaign (between playing and GM'ing I have about 10 here), I'll update again. That may end up in the famine or feast.

- also, having only the bare bones of a scenario (can't remember, think it's 10 pages and not very well written) and also not having it online, I do tend to have to think through it a bit more than a PFRPG Adventure Path. I do generally know what's going to come next, assuming it gets pushed there by the players.

That said ... what I find it difficult to deal with is one liner interrogations/posts that don't give me anything to work with. The only other campaign I had to shut down here, I had 3 of 6 players who just went for "Bjorn follows the others", "Bjorn moves south", occasionaly posting longer Beavis and Butthead comments on the female PC (who, being a male player, joined in). I need some hooks to move a scene forward.

As an example here - asking about the provenance of the poem won't get anyone anywhere. But if someone were to actually summarise the mysteries emerging from the fight with Protector (and rather than assuming the character you just met already has all the background), then Grayland probably has some rather interesting information to impart. But if everyone is going to be ultra laconic we'll shudder to a halt, whether I shut it down or not.

And by the way, there is action coming up. All of this was meant to set the scene for quite a long term campaign; we're only just coming out of that.


Damaged 0 | Hero Points 0 | Perception +0 | Initiative +0 | Fortitude 0 | Will 0 | Dodge 0| Parry 0 | Toughness 0 |

Thanks for the clarification Shady.

Looking forward to us forging ahead :) - think like LB touched on we're all still finding our feet with characters, characterisation and "fit" within the group and game.


Init+ 5 | Dodge 8 Parry 8 Toughness 4/armored: 14 (10 impervious) | Fortitude 10 Will 9 | Perception +10 Insight +12 | Sword Damage DC 26 Improved Crit x2 | Hero Points: 1 | Fatigued
GM Shady wrote:


Gracie - apologies if I gave the wrong impression on the RP. The military (or paramilitary) characters simply tend to assume authority and tend to stamp on dissent. So it's not a case of me wanting to shut it down as a GM, just RP'ing the authority figures.

My issue wasn't with how you RPed the NPCs. It was with how you kept pushing the scene forward with us in the middle of a conversation, to the point of reordering what we said to different points of time in the narrative.

That screamed, "Shut up, stop talking, I'm trying to push us to the action."

Quote:
I guess I also assume, having grown up in that (British pre-millenial) environment, that most of the characters will be fairly deferential in such circumstances, as well.

Normal suburbanite humans would likely be deferential.

Characters who are superheroes with Complications like "Doing Good" and "Responsibility" are going to speak up if they fear those motivations are being subverted. Exceptional beings, like the heroes in an action story, are rarely typical.

And this hints to me that you believe there is "one right way" to roleplay: how you think our characters should act, not how we think our characters to act. This raises a red flag for me.

Quote:


- also, having only the bare bones of a scenario (can't remember, think it's 10 pages and not very well written) and also not having it online, I do tend to have to think through it a bit more than a PFRPG Adventure Path. I do generally know what's going to come next, assuming it gets pushed there by the players.

That I'm certainly sympathetic with, having run modules that can be very weird with what they do and don't guide GMs to do.

I do feel like we're in a phase where we're processing a lot of exposition and you're having to throw a lot out. If it helps, maybe it would be good to throw us into a scenario with a little less information gathering and let it unfold more naturally -- the conversation might flow a little more smoothly.

Quote:
That said ... what I find it difficult to deal with is one liner interrogations/posts that don't give me anything to work with. The only other campaign I had to shut down here, I had 3 of 6 players who just went for "Bjorn follows the others", "Bjorn moves south", occasionaly posting longer Beavis and Butthead comments on the female PC (who, being a male player, joined in). I need some hooks to move a scene forward.

On one hand, I'm totally sympathetic to frustration with unrespondable-to one liners. I've been in a lot of PBPs and it's really hard when no one gives you anything of substance to work with.

On the other hand, sometimes a character or player, often for IC reasons or for whatever strengths/weaknesses that player has, really just has nothing to say at the moment. It doesn't mean someone should NEVER post more than five word sentences, because that's irritating as hell--but they shouldn't feel forced to say something more if it's not in character for them to do so. I've seen the opposite extreme where a player posts nothing but lengthy purple prose and agonized self-reflection as a response to the tiniest event, and interestingly enough that can be just as unrespondable-to, because it is often heady self-aggrandizement that doesn't actually really go anywhere or really push anything forward any more than "Bjorn follows the others."

One thing I try to do to encourage my players is when they post not necessarily lengthy, but meaningful posts with useful, forward-motion creating details, is reward them with bonuses to a relevant checks or hero points. This gives them quantitative, noticeable feedback that what they are doing is on the right track. Also, speaking as both a player and a GM, just verbal feedback is helpful -- telling people when it happens, "This is great," vs. "I just asked for details and you responded with "I make a Stealth check" this is not helpful to me."

In this game, whenever I've tried to make an effort to roleplay and engage to the best of my ability, I've gotten almost no response and no feedback. This action tells me that in practical terms, what I do doesn't matter (regardless of what people may be thinking).

Quote:


As an example here - asking about the provenance of the poem won't get anyone anywhere. But if someone were to actually summarise the mysteries emerging from the fight with Protector (and rather than assuming the character you just met already has all the background), then Grayland probably has some rather interesting information to impart. But if everyone is going to be ultra laconic we'll shudder to a halt, whether I shut it down or not.

And while on one hand, I appreciate the example of the kind of thing you're looking for, this also raises red flags for me. The question I'm reading into this is not, "why aren't you roleplaying/interacting more?" but "why aren't you reading my mind? Why aren't you asking the NPCs the correct questions I want you to ask?"

Players cannot read your mind. I've gotten into so much trouble as a GM when I couldn't understand why players couldn't see the careful plot I'd laid out for them, absolutely certain I was being OBVIOUS with the right clues, and then I realized, of course they were seeing it from a very different perspective. My very knowledge of behind-the-scenes biases and taints my perspective and I cannot see it the way my players will, and they most DEFINITELY will not view the scenario the way I do. Players will always pick up on details you don't think they will (sometimes they pick up the most important details you didn't want them to notice yet, and sometimes they latch onto the most entirely inconsequential detail that the players are obsessed with for reasons you can never understand. I once had players completely reroute their course for a bit of flavor text that they detected something sinister in that I had never ever intended).

And good players, good roleplayers, will be thinking of how their PCs are thinking and responding, not being abstract "good puzzle solvers." I won't presume that I am a good player or roleplayer, but I know if my PC isn't a "good puzzle solver" I'm not going to play one. And maybe we do assume the NPCs know what's going on more than we do because that's how it feels to us (also, talking about how civilians respond to the military, generally they do assume that the military/government knows more about what's going on than we do).

We can provide you detail and interaction. We can provide you accurate portrayals of our characters to the best of our ability. But if you're trying to telepathically project into our heads the "correct interaction," you're going to be frustrated when we have not received your mental message, and proceed to roleplay as we see fit. If you want us to say the "right" things and the at the "right time" you're better off writing a story and having all the characters say what you want them to, then try to force it out of a group of strangers on the Internet who don't even really know you.

I know I'm getting into preachy mode and I apologize for that.

But at this point I'd rather be transparent with what I'm thinking, because indeed, I know you can't read my mind, so you're not gonna know what the hell's going on unless I tell you. Some red flags have been raised for me here, and I may consider bowing out if I find this is not well suited for me. If I am expected to play the GM's puppet and not my own character, I will most assuredly move on. (I'm also saying this aloud NOW because I've learned the hard way when I'm noticing red flags that a campaign may not be for me personally that if I say NOTHING, I just risk making myself miserable and then blowing up for what looks like no reason whatsoever, and that's not fair to anyone.)


Gracie, once again, I apologise for what I got wrong and for not meeting your standards. I do think your interpretation is different from mine.

I disagree with much of what you've said. But it's raised enough "red flags" on my side that I am indeed shutting this down.

Thanks, everyone, for playing.


Init+ 5 | Dodge 8 Parry 8 Toughness 4/armored: 14 (10 impervious) | Fortitude 10 Will 9 | Perception +10 Insight +12 | Sword Damage DC 26 Improved Crit x2 | Hero Points: 1 | Fatigued

Wow, I'm really sorry to hear that. I know I can be talky and I come on strong with my opinions. It doesn't mean I'm right! :) It certainly wasn't my intention to have things result in things being shut down--indeed, the hope was to lay out potential concerns so they could be dealt with and avoided in the future.

As far as I, personally, am concerned -- I may just be a bad fit for the campaign. That doesn't mean it couldn't continue on without me. I don't want what I said to stop things for everyone else.

Of course you need to do what you do, but I'm sorry the end result is that things would end so abruptly. There were some really great character concepts on display.

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors, gaming or otherwise.


Damaged 0 | Hero Points 0 | Perception +0 | Initiative +0 | Fortitude 0 | Will 0 | Dodge 0| Parry 0 | Toughness 0 |

Sorry to see this one go :(

Best of luck to all.

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