Child-of-Planes |
Eh, always had more problems with Balors than Pit Fiends. If you actually fight a Pit Fiend, you've probably made a bad choice somewhere.
Vincent Riker |
Yeah, going to be GMing a 3 person gestalt group for Wrath, starting this Sunday :D. We're stealing borrowing some of the character creation rules from this game actually, though I'm introducing low level bonus hp to hopefully prevent Level One Instant Death Syndrome. (15 bonus hp at level 1, reduced by 5 each level after, so at level 4 all of the bonus hp are gone)
My wife is playing a paladin/bard, my friend is playing a zen archer/sorcerer and his girlfriend is playing a cavalier/cleric. Should be fun.
Phai Kareen |
But Balors are Chaotic Evil. Yin is Chaotic Shiny. Last time she met a Balor, she convinced him that he actually was a puppy dreaming big.
The Pit Fiends are the problematic ones, as they are so damn lawful. They and Yin simply don't click.
Plus Pit Fiends come in Council Form for up to 9 simultaneously...Balors usually don't :)
Child-of-Planes |
Right... but lawful evil usually isn't something you actually need to fight. Chaotic evil means balors might just hop over to the material plane for a murdering spree; pit fiends are too busy doing paperwork, and consider the whole "murdering spree" thing to be beneath them anyway.
MordredofFairy |
Right. Context. Did I mention Yin is Chaotic Shiny? As in, her alignment is "Chaotic Chaotic", or "True Chaotic".
I think she is physically incapable of understanding lawful.
That Balor slaughtering a Kindergarten class? He's simply having fun. Perfectly natural.
That Pit Fiend writing a contract? What's a contract? Is that ink edible? Is Murdering Spree a kind of carpet from Spreewald?
Yin is like an Ethical Nemesis IV for all things lawful. Thats Devils(Pit Fiends), Inevitables, and Archons. Have her meet Hastur and she'll try and get a Tea Party going...also inviting some Proteans and Azata's.
She has no concept of good&evil in the usual sense. Take pre-formed opinions about the alignment grid, then shift it 90 degrees so chaos is on top. Re-apply pre-formed opinions. Done.
She MAY talk things over with an Angel(if only because she usually won't strike first), placed at the lower left of her alignment grid, being lawful good. But she is unlikely to do that with a Devil on the lower right.
Same as she gets along with top left(chaotic good) and top right(chaotic evil) despite some perceived differences...(no worse than the party paladin and the robin hood rogue)
Child-of-Planes |
I guess you and I have very different interpretations of "true chaotic" (at least, I usually go with "chaotic also hates different chaotic"). My most chaotic character was a 5e elf barbarian who believed in only wearing clothing he had personally killed, founded martial art school called "sword style" that involved "stabbing but also yelling at the same time," once spent an entire day with a dead turkey on each of his lances, was mistakenly convinced he was a werewolf, tried to ride an aboleth like a horse, and was once permanently banished from a conclave of druids for building a sculpture garden out of still-animated skeletons, lashed together, that he had caught in net traps during a recent battle with a necromancer. But I don't think he'd ever attack an angel, although he did once shoot a demon lord in the face, mid-conversation, out of boredom.
Vincent Riker |
Where does one learn this... "sword style"? For.... reasons.
Child-of-Planes |
Well the full name was "The Sword-Hawk School of Using Swords Effectively while Also Screaming Like a Hawk to Distract Your Enemies." He was an eagle totem barbarian.
MordredofFairy |
It's not so much our interpretations. It's Yin's interpretation. Completely insane does come close, yes.(there's a reason she drains wisdom if you try to read her mind. Also, her spoiler tag specifically states that she's clinically insane)
I played plenty chaotic characters(I don't think we need to compare)...I seem to favor them over lawful, on the grand scale of things. But Yin takes the cake for being chaotic in a different sense of the word.
But thanks for being so insistent in showcasing your different views, you've shown me that I'll have to make her personality perfectly clear during the recruitment, so people can dodge the bullet if they feel unable to adapt.
Also, stuff like "Ethical Nemesis" does per definition not make a distinction on the other alignment axis. *shrug* I guess it's harder for a player to empathize with a being of absolut law, or absolut chaos, while good and evil are pretty plain simple and generally consistent among players. *shrug*
That said, Yin is not openly hostile towards any alignment - it's rather that the lawful types have a problem with her. The pit fiend, for example, would probably take offense at her morphic reality altering the contract after it's written. The main draw of her Co-GM'ing is that she is utterly random, undependable, and not favoring players or enemies in any way. Which seems a nice thing to have to mix things up in a Gestalt Level 20+/Tier 10 Campaign. YMMV.
Child-of-Planes |
Oh! Whoops, didn't mean to be insistent. I just like talking about that character.
MordredofFairy |
I am sorry, that was not meant as criticism. I think it was genuinely helpful that you dwelled on the pit fiend/balor thing and how it differed from standard views.
(to ME it was clear that it would need to be a pit fiend, rather than a balor, because I somewhat understand Yin. Sometimes.)
As said, I can see a lot of people have a problem with Yin Co-GMing, and I'd rather not they quit after we started. Making perfectly clear that her perception of reality is vastly different, then, will be of importance once I get to run a recruitment. Make sure people know what they are getting into ahead of time.
So that was a genuine thanks, I just felt a necessity to further clarify my point after seeing where you come from. :)
Child-of-Planes |
Pretty sure the government of Mos Eisley—whatever it is—would get annoyed if a dozen whatever went around kidnapping people off the street to sell into slavery (though I might be wrong). It's bad for business, though.
Vincent Riker |
Well, my mistake =P
Vincent Riker |
Looking at some other games' recruitment threads and it's amazing how important grammar and spelling are for a play-by-post game. I immediately discounted a few games based purely on the GM's opening post.
Related to that, thanks for being competent guys ;D
Child-of-Planes |
Heh. That's part of it. Grammar is often a good indicator of how much *care* a GM puts into their world (though less so of how committed they'll be to the game—only AP I ever finished was from a GM with medium grammar)
Isen Kalla |
I actually started roleplaying online (So, so long ago) as a way to improve my writing skills. As poor Rednal will attest, this has only been partially successful.
GM Rednal |
*Mixes a drink for himself* You're fine. XD I've been roleplaying for a long time too, of course - much longer than my time here on Paizo, actually, so I've gotten used to writing in this style.
Incidentally, good spelling and grammar are one of the things I specifically look for when recruiting for my games. o wo/ I judge way more by background than by mechanics, and it's worked out rather well.
Isen Kalla |
Yes. I've got to admit, when I've been running games, one of the first culls is usually those that can't or won't use proper spelling and grammar, or at least my level of it.
Phai Kareen |
I am doing my best. I am aware that I probably mess up quite a bit. Thing is, if I am uncertain or catch my mistakes in time, I even go ahead and reword stuff, going as far as re-doing whole paragraphs until I feel satisfied.
To someone natively familiar with english, or possessing expert knowledge from another source(e.g.: I know many countries don't dub television), it's probably still quite obvious, but I am trying.
One problem is that I mostly use english online...communicating with other people using english online. So, my basis for comparison is flawed because there's many people(native speakers included) who fail at spelling and grammar. I always liked to read books in english, but alas, I had precious little time for that since my daughters birth 10 month ago.
I am also quite certain that in one or two recruitments I was not picked because of my not-truly-bad, yet still limited command of the boards lingua franca.
So basically: thanks for the patience and having included me in the game.
Also, I THINK we are ready to move on, so consider that a poke, Rednal.
Isen Kalla |
Honestly, if you hadn't mentioned it, I'd never have guessed your first language wasn't English. You're easily better at it than I am.
I take comfort in the fact I'm likely taller.
Vincent Riker |
Yup, your English is just fine. What really rankles is when people type repeated glaring spelling and grammatical errors. It's even worse when they misspell a word different ways in a single paragraph.
Out of curiosity, what is your native language?
Phai Kareen |
Thanks a lot, you two.
@Isen: I would not place a bet on you being taller ;) There's a reasonable chance if you point it out like that, but I don't think your victory is certain. That aside, I can mirror your statement.
@Vincent: Aye, misspelling something in different ways is really "grinding my gears", as you auttaine would probably put it :) My native language is German, so I suppose I got that going for me.(since it's the same language "family" as english).
Vincent Riker |
Cool. German is interesting. I'd like to learn it a bit someday, but who knows when that will be.
I speak English, with a smattering of Spanish that I learned in high school, and Japanese that I learned in college. My proficiency in those languages has declined somewhat since I have hardly used them in years. I was surprised how much I still understood when I went to Japan last October, though.
Vincent Riker |
Are any of you particularly knowledgable about Wrath of the Righteous? Any idea where a good place would be to transform a PC's animal companion into a Vahana?
Child-of-Planes |
Oh man, was *not* expecting to actually sleep before the next fight. This is exciting!
Phai Kareen |
If we indeed get to rest, that would be surprising, yes. Definitely won't complain if it works out, though. If we do manage to go to bed, I'll obviously blow the rest of my healing out there, keeping only one mythic power(or as many as possible, if we manage to top off between the rest of us.)
@Vincent: Not me, sorry. While I do intend to run it sometime this year, I had little time for in-debt analysis...but considering the wildly fluctuating range of power that mythic presents, I'll half expect that with that AP in particular, I'll have to adapt on the fly and wing things more often than not. Not very helpful, but unless there's a pivotal plot point around what should be the right spot, I'd suggest you just roll with it, too, and trigger the transformation at a time when the AC is about to turn into a liability, rather than an asset.
If you run gestalt, that may be as soon as they turn mythic - you could also "transition" into the new form, giving it only partial boni whenever it seems to fall behind to much until the transofrmation is complete.
Child-of-Planes |
Err, I think we just did?
Also, hmm, looks like we're still 1 level away from Arcana'ing Communal Protection from Arrows. Because of course we are.
Vincent Riker |
I am the GM. I think I've figured out what I'll do. Since the PC in question is playing a cleric of Desna, her corgi/husky mix is going to develop an extra pair of legs at the end of book 1 (granting the movement speed increase from the template). At the end of book 2, it's going to get antenna and the intelligence bonus, then at the end of book 3 it will make a coccoon and come out with butterfly wings, as well as the remaining modifications from the template.
Isen Kalla |
I'm 6ft 3, so I'm usually taller, but not always. It really wound a friend of mine up. He was 6ft 2 and somehow had little man syndrome, and got annoyed whenever I stood up straight.
But yes...
Child-of-Planes |
If you take altitude into account, I'm probably the shortest. Had to actually put together an emergency tsunami plan a few years back, since we're only about 50' above sea level, but the upside is being able to walk to the beach.
Vincent Riker |
>.< Forgot to be explicit. I cast see invisibility.
Vincent Riker |
Any idea approximately how much the cart weighs?
Vincent Riker |
That's fair. I think I top out at 700 lbs., and a large tank filled with some kind of liquid probably exceeds that by an order of magnitude.
EDIT: Actually, pretty close. A 5 ft. cube of water weighs a bit over 7,000 lbs. That's making some assumptions about the contents of the cart, but fairly safe to say it weighs much more than I can do anything about.
Phai Kareen |
@bull rush first: Seems we need a ruling on the free actions part, there.
Because the way I always run things, free actions(not only speaking) are available out-of-turn.(You are not flat-footed and see a hail of arrows incoming? Standing behind a waist-high wall? Damn right you get to drop prone...siege combat works much better that way and makes fortifications meaningful)
I THINK the official part was that they can be "riders" on other actions, so that Snap Shot actually lets you make multiple AoO's, or stuff like Overwatch Style works.(both cases of "draw arrow/reload as free action")
Because if he CAN let go of an object out of turn, then bull rushing him is also not a good idea if he DOES hold it over the tank.
I think he could even talk out of turn(as allowed), and ride the "drop" free action along with the free action of talking(as they may be part of actions, period, last I read.)
In that case, you would be best-advised to disarm him without holding something, so that you can automatically take possession of the vial.
Of course, if he runs with a readied action of "let go of the vial if anybody does anything I consider hostile to me", then waiting it out and hoping he fails a will save would be preferable.
Child-of-Planes |
Yeah, that's fair. He might have a prepared action to throw the vial into the tank, etc.
Ah, well. At mythic 3, at least one of our tricksters is probably taking "all day invisibility" (or I could get mythic crafting at 2 and make us all cloaks of the hunt), and I'll have Improved Steal/Disarm etc., and then shenanigans.
I do enjoy how, despite the constant threat of death, apocalypse, and alien genocide, this game mysteriously feels more light and fun than most of the others I'm in right now.
GM Rednal |
...I didn't see an actual question there. XD What specific ruling are you looking for?
(Note that I haven't checked the gameplay thread yet - I'll be doing that around my usual time.)
@Child: I don't recommend taking effectively-permanent invisibility. XD I'm glad you're finding the game fun, though!
Phai Kareen |
Specifically how restricted "free actions" are out of turn.
Combat rules only point out that talking out of turn is allowed.
But certain other rule-sets depend on certain free actions being done out-of-turn as well.(aforementioned arrow-drawing, as simple example).
In other cases, they removed the reference(e.g. Summoners Life-Link was originally a free action, because it was supposed to be "always" available, even if you already used an inmediate - but not realizing that meant it was only, RAW, active during your own turn, making it rather limited in it's utility. They simply made it into a non-action per FAQ).
So the question is: If somebody holds an object, can he let go(free action) to drop it at any time, or does he have to wait until his turn comes up again(since dropping an object is a free action, not an inmediate action, and only the latter are universally allowed out of turn).
Logic says one can let go(especially if holding an object with the intent to let go).
RAW says it's complicated due to the mess that free actions can present.
We are contemplating how to deal with the vial.
Also, no need to update just yet. Vincent and Isen are missing. Both me and Child double-posted. Sorry :)
Plus I find all Rednal-Games fun. And quite active...which I cannot say for many of my other games -_- Probably one of the reasons I tried to get into your games so often.
Vincent Riker |
I'm still considering what I'd like to do, plus I'm at work. If the cart does contain a person, my first priority is to secure its safety, but I don't seem to have any options I can think of to directly protect it. Eliminating threats may be the next best option.
Child-of-Planes |
I'm just planning on letting the scene play out, because I assume Mr. Sarlu might have telepathic words for us in a minute or so.