GM Rednal's Cults of the Sundered Kingdoms (Inactive)

Game Master Rednal

Here's Opi. I haven't finished the skills, traits or smaller equipment, but the rest of the stuff should be done, and I'll work on the rest when I can.

Opi is set up as a ranged blaster and support character. The Blaster Archetype lets me use Destruction blasts as ranged weapon, including performing multiple attacks and enhancing them with feats, but it also limits the damage on it's own. To keep it from going out of control, I'm only using the Armorist Spheres on Destruction, with the exception of taking the Incanter Specialization in destruction, granting an extra Sphere and some other, boosting abilities. Since it already has a built in damage limiter, it shouldn't go crazy. I've also decided to skin the Arm Cannon as a Mage's Staff, if that's OK.

The Incanter's Spheres and focus are on healing and support, with the Channel Energy ability taking the last two Specialization points, and focusing on the Healing and Time Spheres.

My plan is to take Spheres for Healing and Destruction at the same levels, again limiting the potency of either while also maintaining the paradoxical focus. 'Cos...Yidhra.

Recruitment is closed!

And picking people went way faster than for the other one, probably because you're all lower in level. *Coughs* Anyway! The following characters have been selected for this game, and should dot the gameplay thread and report to the discussion thread now:

Karlia Moondancer
Minn Thoraminder
Opi Wandshard

Everyone else, thank you for applying and best of luck in future recruitments. ^^

(For anyone who's curious, my next recruitment won't be for some time, but I want to get a group for Bloody Jack, an upcoming module taking place in another part of the Lost Lands...)

Thank you for the selection.

Have fun!

Good luck with the game, have fun!

And we are open for re-recruitment! This game needs another player.

Dotting! What do you guys need, Rednal? :)

We currently have a Witch/Shifter (Debuff/Transforming Offense), and an Armorist/Incanter (Tanky Offense/Healing and Buffing, basically, at least for now). Something with good Skills would probably be good for one half. o wo/ They're not very far, so same build rules as the first post.

Building something on these lines as we speak, my friend.

I am interested. I'm really missing your Legendary Planet game.

Hopefully I can make something worthy of your choice.

Side Note: Your story is going to be that you were part of a caravan from somewhere else in the region that got attacked, and you escaped, then came across the rest of the party while trying to find a way to rescue your companions. o wo/ The rest of the caravan's members weren't long-term friends, just people you joined for the trip, so you should have no trouble separating from them to join the party.

I'll re-submit Kellithor Evenstar Warlord/Bard(sphere bard). Kellithor will be able to fill multiple party roles face/melee/skills. The original post can be found here:

Post

Dot.

Rendal Game you say?

Dotting for interest indeed.

Will definitely be using an Investigator as I love them. I might try blending it with a Vigilante, it's a curious class and could be extremely fun to go. No to mention it goes very well with the Investigator fluff wise.

I'm currently playing with the idea of a half-elven Fey Adept/Sphere Ranger (Guide).

She's probably going to be an archer. Signed on for guard duty and to care for the draft animals. Grew up wandering the wilderness around town.

More as I have time.

Hi Rednal,

I don't know anything about this set of adventures but it seems a bit grim and dark. Would Hawk (with a somewhat tweaked background, traits, and possibly adapted to sphere-casting) be a decent fit or is he too 'light' for the mood of the campaign overall?

Hi Rednal! Chess here. I'm working on the story, building around the caravan idea. I'll have more updates to the profile soon, but he should work well on the skills area and still be useful on other subjects.

@Hawk: The flavor bit in the first post tells you pretty much everything you need to know about the region. XD Optimistic is fine - there's no need to be grim, and definitely no need to be grimdark. This isn't Warhammer.

Can I play a Kitsune? I really, really, REALLY fits with the Vigilante class, I want to try and play more non-humans.

*Points at the build rules in the first post*

For reasons of fairness, I try to avoid offering things like new race options to new players, when the original players didn't have the opportunity to use those. For this particular game, given the setting, half-elves and dwarves are good non-human races. Everything else that's still within the build rules needs a good explanation. XD The world of the Lost Lands isn't low-magic, per se, but it's not the kind of fantasy melting pot Golarion is, either. Unusual races stick out, and might even be treated as monsters by most people.

I'm interested, but wanted to get approval of a raw idea before developing the backstory more. I've been interested in playing a Sacred Huntsmaster Inquisitor / Zen Archer gestalt character for a while, with the Conversion inquisition, so that I could really focus on the Wisdom / spellcasting side of inquisitor without sacrificing archery capabilities. The character I had in mind was someone who was deathly afraid of getting heavily involved in close combat, but still felt called out to battle, so has an Ape companion who basically serves as a bodyguard to keep anyone from getting too close to him. Preferred would be if I could train the ape to use a reach weapon, really control the field as people try to approach. Let me know if this is something that sounds workable, and I will try to develop the idea further.

There are... quite a few places that would react negatively to having a giant ape following you around. If it's within the build rules in the first post, it's acceptable, but you'll want to account for the existence of such a companion.

... So, I can play as a Vigilante, whose social identity is a human investigator, right?

Yes, you can.

Good. My thoughts is playing as a Tiefling Vigilante, Disguised as a Human Investigator. It'll be quite interesting to play something where my entire species changes between disguses... I wonder how everyone else will fare with that.

Investigator/Vigilante will give me an incredible talent with skills, yet a character with surprisingly strong melee capabilities. Especially if I combine my Stalker Strike with the Investigator's Studied Strike...

Two questions. Firstly, it's one Skill Unlock per 5 levels, as per Rogue's Edge, correct? And do they stack if I'm an Investigator and Vigilante? Secondly, whilst the Investigator has Alchemy, am I to understand that the Vigilante does get Combat Stamina as well?

The Stalker's Hidden Strike and the Investigator's Studied Strike are the kinds of things I don't allow you to stack. You're meant to get one of them as a damage bonus, not both. Gestalt should not be used to try and break the system, and I will not select characters that look like they're trying to do that. ^^

Skill Unlocks work as the Rogue's Edge. You get it once. The Vigilante does get Combat Stamina.

The Stalker's Hidden Strike and the Investigator's Studied Strike are the kinds of things I don't allow you to stack. You're meant to get one of them as a damage bonus, not both. Gestalt should not be used to try and break the system, and I will not select characters that look like they're trying to do that. ^^

I would like to point out that the Investigator's Studied Strike is NOTHING like Sneak Attack. Sneak Attack is something you build around to deal as much damage as possible. Railing an enemy turn after turn with a flurry of attacks to take advantage of it.

Studied Strike can only be used against an enemy once per encounter, and can only be used with a single attack. After all, you can only used Studied Combat again and enemy once per encounter, and Studied Strike ends that effect automatically. Plus, as you use it as a free action after you hit someone, you can't use it in more than one attack.

Don't think of Studied Strike as a Stalker's Hidden Strike, or a Rogue's Sneak Attack. Thinking of it more of a strike maneuver from Path of War. Once that can only be used against an enemy once per encounter.

Still, sources of precision damage should not happen at the same time with a Gestalt build. Separately, yes. Together, no. XD

Right. So one shouldn't have a manuverer and sneak attack at the same time them? So a Rogue/Stalker would be a no-no? Actually, I'm guessing a Rogue Stalker would be a no-no anyway. We can't have you combining Deadly Strikes and Sneak Attack after all! Even through it never actually says Deadly Strikes is Precision Damage.

Actually, more importantly. That means that Vigilante Stalker Archetype is flat out now allowed! We simply can't have a class that has both Sneak Attack Progression AND Maneuvers at the same time now, can we? The amount of damage that such a character could do in the right situation... why, its almost as if it is much more than Investigator would ever do with their Studied Strike!

It means I generally lean against having two classes worth of damage at the same time. XD If it's something you could do with one class, as in a non-gestalt game, I don't have any concerns. That's the damage you should have. I'm less inclined to accept a bunch of extra damage dice that were never intended to be stacked.

Any Path of War class is basically just fine for damage all on its own, and doesn't need add-ons to make them more dangerous.

So. What CAN a Path of War class go with? Barbarain isn't an option. Rogue isn't an option. Monk isn't an option. None of the casters are an option. Paladin isn't an option. Ranger isn't an option.

Heck, even fighter isn't an option because of Weapon Training...

... So, are Path of War just destined to be solo classes? I mean, if they don't need any more damage, and every class has at least some ability to add more damage. Where does that leave Path of War?

...I feel like you're getting confused about how to build the characters. When I say "don't stack damage", I mean "try to avoid mixing their powers and using both at the same time". Don't do martial maneuvers AND sneak attack in a round. Do martial maneuvers OR sneak attack.

Pick at least one class that doesn't focus on damage and you're generally going to be fine. o wo/

Actually, I'm not getting confused at all. After all, you specifically said 'Any Path of War class is basically just fine for damage all on its own, and doesn't need add-ons to make them more dangerous.' And I was pointing out that such a broad comment is a bit much.

Not, saying 'don't mix their powers' is fine. But again, that's incredibly restrictive. What if I wanted to play a Rogue Harbringer, or a Rogue Warder? The Rogue gives me a strong skill base, whilst the other class is damage, and either mobility or tanking. But because of how the rogue functions, I can also get a powerful boost of damage if I position correct.

Why should I not be rewarded for playing the game correctly, and positioning myself for Sneak Attacks? Why should I suddenly not be allowed to use my Manuverers, just because I'm flanking the enemy now. Or what if it is a surprise round. Should I just not Manuverers at all, just because I'll be getting Sneak Attack Damage?

Look, I get your concern. You don't want anyone to do a Rogue/Ninja and stack the sneak attack twice or something. But what you've been saying so far, is incredibly, INCREDIBLY limited.

People love your games, because off the strong fluff, and the strong flexibility your rules give us.

Doing a 180, and saying 'Actually, here is a lot of sudden restrictions that of your characters'? That's not a good way to keep interest. In actual fact, now that I think about it... that's why you didn't accept my Barbain, wasn't it?

I thought my Barbarian wasn't taken, because you wanted a more skillmonkey character, one that isn't so melee focused. But Luckbringer is very skill based, and I picked it's abilities towards that end. Yet, because the Luckbringer had the POTENTIAL to be good in melee, I got blocked. Wouldn't that be the same for a Rogue? If I was a Barbarian Rogue. Would I have gotten rejected still, for having Rage and Sneak Attack?

OK, seeing as you have two characters with very strong caster builds, I'm going to step away from Sorcerer. I'd like to offer up Hawk with the following changes (yet to be implemented):
Gestalt 3| Rogue (Unchained, Vicious Opportunist) / Symbiat (no archetype)

Given the whole 'two minds' thing, I think him being a devotee of Yidhra makes perfect sense. :P

Unfortunately, I don't own the source books for either the Spheres of Power or the Sundered Kingdoms. So I'm going to be climbing the learning curve here both in terms of profile generation and tweaking his backstory. I do have Spheres in HeroLab for quick generation, but I'm traveling and won't be at that computer until after the weekend.

I will try to tweak his profile appropriately but if you are going to make a quick decision and want a complete build to judge from... I may be out of luck.

The idea is to be able to many cool things well, rather than be able to do one thing extraordinarily. For example, Opi here's main attack is the Destructive Blast gained from her Armorist (Blaster) abilities.

I could have also spent all my abilities from Incanter to make it so what I fired was something akin to a mini-nuke, but with one exception (Taking the Destruction Sphere Incanter specialization) I chose to focus on Healing and Time magic, making Opi versatile enough to fill several rolls.

@Hawk: I think I'm going to give it at least a few more days. ^^/ And Yidhra always approves of having more followers, of course.

@Fury: I feel like you've interpreted my words as being more limiting than they were meant. When I said that Path of War is good for damage, what I meant was "the other class you pick should not be focused on dealing damage, or at least not on stacking damage with maneuvers". It's pretty much a given that every class will have some way of hurting foes, but that's usually limited by action economy. Just... y'know, don't try to mix classes in a way that maximizes damage. Have one class you think of as dealing damage, and one that is focused elsewhere. If you're worried about stacking abilities (Sneak Attack on top of Barbarian Smashing?), try using Archetypes to trade something out. o wo/ Otherwise, yes, I totally consider it wrong to mix abilities in a way that lets you deal way more damage than a normal character of a given level would be able to. That's breaking the system, and despite the nature of my games, I do try to avoid it. ^^

Here is Khellithor's crunch:

His fluff can be found here: Post

Hia :)
Sounds interesting So would like to take a look and see what I can create.
My main idea is to create a Wizard equivalent Incanter who has a serious addiction to the Telekinesis sphere, and in general doing everything with magic instead of gasp! physical effort.
However I noticed that your 2 current players are both full casters, a witch and an Incanter (with good reason, bonus feats and high caster means you can make them do just about anything). I am wondering if making a "Wizard" is a bad idea because the party would be to magic heavy and it would step on too many toes.

Whats your preliminary thoughts?

If I do create him, he would be an older male human who uses a wand as his Focus Casting item and generally uses the TeleSphere to do everything around him. He can also do many different kinds of skills using his Telekinesis with the Finesse talent and the Skillful Force feat so I am going to pair him up with a class that has a lot of skills, and maybe the Improvisation human racial feats.

So whats your preliminary thoughts?
Is another caster doable? I can easily come up with something else :)

The Incanter is basically the Build-It-Yourself Caster. XD It's not really a class so much as a toolbox you can take in a ton of different ways. ...It's pretty much the ultimate representative of Spheres' fundamental idea, which is saying "yes" to your ideas and letting you play the kind of caster you want to play.

A Telekinetic-focused character is a definite possibility. What would your other class be?

He'd be a bit MAD but with 25 point buy I'm thinking maybe a fighter/investigator...kind of a Witcher-type build is a thing I've always wanted to do.

... But that’s not possible. No matter what class combination you use, your damage is going to be higher than it would be for a character your level without Gestalt.

Let’s look as two, let’s call them... traditional Gestalt character’s.

First off, is the Paladin/Sorcerer. Right away, Enlarge Person allows you to do more damage than you normally would be able to, without needing someone else to cast it on you. Not to mention a Sorcerer grants a Paladin the ability to strike from range. As you increase in level, the difference’s keep climbing. Greater Magical Weapon means you have more money to spend on +Stat items. Haste gives you a +5 ability on your weapon without needing the pay the money, along with other bonuses. If you go Dragon Disciple, that power increases significantly due to being it’s stat increases. Not to mention you still get full Paladin levels, so your Smite Evil and Channel Energy with be devastating in terms of damage.

Second, let’s go for a Psionic combination. Say, Psychic Warrior/Soulknife. Again, this combination is very strong from the get go. You don’t have to give up your Psychic Strikes for Psionic Powers, and you get power’s like Expansion, and ranged attacks. You can possible channel touch powers though your Soulknife Blade, you get strong Blade Skills like Absorbing/Deflecting Blade, whilst still having powerful buffing Psionic Powers. If you go Meditant Psychic Warrior, you can be very MAD with Wisdom to AC, attack and damage.

Maybe the Psionic Combination is too ‘damage’ focused for you. But the first one isn’t, yet it still gives you a substantial increase in power and damage compared to a normal Dragon Disciple Build. Asking people not to stack Sneak Attack with say, Deadly Strikes? I do understand that, as they are very similar, and gestalt is meant to widen your options.

But punishing say a Dervish Defender Warder / Unchained Rogue, for having both Maneuvers and Sneak Attack. When the Rogue gives you incredible skills, and the Warder gives you tanking abilities, which is why you chose them? That’s unfair. Punishing a Barbarian/Luckbringer, because the Luckbringer gives the Barbarian added bonuses to his damage, even when the Luckbringer specifically chooses skill-based abilities with the intention of being a skill monkey and buffing his allies? That’s unfair.

Honestly Rednal. I’m starting to think you really do not understand how Gestalt works. Whenever you be combining two rather different classes, like a Paladin and a Sorcerer. Or going for two classes that are rather similar. Like say, an Investigator and a Vigilante. That combination is ALWAYS going to be doing more damage than a non-gestalt character.

If your allowing Maneuvers. You should allow someone to do Sneak Attack with those Maneuvers in a gestalt game. If they want to build a Rogue/Path of War character. Why should they not be allowed, when they are combining a Skill Monkey class with a Melee damage class?

With a Sorcerer Paladin - Yes, you can cast Enlarge and Haste on yourself. But two normal characters would have been able to do the exact same thing. The Sorceradin is simply being both the Buffer and the Warrior - playing 2 different rolls.

Sure, you can buff yourself silly - but you either have to pre-plan it or waste three turns getting it up and running. You can't do both.

Even if you did, say, a Warpriest/Barbarian, and could even buff yourself as a Swift action, you aren't doing anything that would be impossible for a normal pair of characters to pull off. You're burning resources rapidly to get up and running faster, like a Warpriest would.

The thing is, you can't do both in the same round. You can buff OR you can punch someone's face off. You can Sneak Attack OR you can heal. You can cast Nuclear Fusion Magic Missle OR you can Summon Monster. Gestalt has given you more option, but Action Economy means you can't use them all in one round.

By stacking different kinds of damage from different classes at their full rate you create something that couldn't happen under usual circumstances. You're doing more on a single Attack action than a normal character could. That's what Rednal is trying to avoid.

It is Gestalt, and some things will be more powerful. A Rogue with full BAB is going to be more powerful than one without. A Sorcerer with d12 hit points and an armour class one doesn't usually associate with a paper plate is tougher than the usual one. No one's trying to suggest that Gestalt characters aren't more powerful than normal ones.

But there's 'Powerful' and there's 'Everything Dies in One Hit.'

Also, you seem utterly convinced that your Luckbringer/Barbarian was rejected because of this. I don't know why it was rejected, because I'm not GM, but I do know why other people get accepted - the character concept and personality is what Rednal is looking for.

^
That, basically.

I'm not sure where the miscommunication here happened, Fury, but I don't think we've managed to get onto the same wavelength, and that's pretty important for PbP games. Thank you for your time and interest, but I think it would be for the best if you withdrew your application at this point. I do, however, wish you the best of luck in your applications to other games.

If you agree with the statement, 'But there's 'Powerful' and there's 'Everything Dies in One Hit.' ' Rednal. Don't go saying things like 'I totally consider it wrong to mix abilities in a way that lets you deal way more damage than a normal character of a given level would be able to.'

One says yes your characters can be more powerful in gestalt than if it was a none gestalt game, as long as you don't try to get +12d6 Sneak Attack by level 10.

The other says 'Don't combine a Rogue and Barbarian that is way more powerful than a Rogue or a Barbarian'

This isn't a matter of being on the same wavelength. This is you saying one thing, and meaning an entirely different thing that I was meant to magically understand. That is where the miscommunication happened. You were saying one thing, but meaning something else entirely.

Jon, thank you for actually explaining what GM Rednal meant. I am glad that you have telepathy.

Rednal. I am not withdrawing my application, there is no reason for me to withdraw my application. I want to create a fun skill-monkey stealth guy with an Investigator/Vigilante combo. A Tiefling Vigilante, disguised as a Human Investigator. I am pretty sure that is the exact type of character that you could love in your game.

Just. Make sure you say what you mean, please? I greatly respect you, and I really did not like this argument we had, and the dip in respect that happened due to your miscommunication.

Dot for interest, thinking a goblin gunslinger/ranger. has an unsurmountable hatred for dogs and has a knack for blowing his guns up in his own face. of course, i understand that elves and dwarves would see a goblin and almost immediately attack... but i believe if i work with another player we can create a suitable excuse...(I'm with stupid <--)

William here, this is Bluch (his gun's name is Boomber), currently he has just the gunslinger stats, adjusting as needed starting now.

oops, didn't see the closed recruitment :P

edit:*looks at it a bit more* is this closed? people are applying after the thread says closed... I'm confused.

William here, this is Bluch (his gun's name is Boomber), currently he has just the gunslinger stats, adjusting as needed starting now.

oops, didn't see the closed recruitment :P

edit:*looks at it a bit more* is this closed? people are applying after the thread says closed... I'm confused.

New posts from the GM from Monday morning:

And we are open for re-recruitment! This game needs another player.

We currently have a Witch/Shifter (Debuff/Transforming Offense), and an Armorist/Incanter (Tanky Offense/Healing and Buffing, basically, at least for now). Something with good Skills would probably be good for one half. o wo/ They're not very far, so same build rules as the first post.

in that case, going rouge, instead of ranger.

Bluch is done crunch wise, working on a backstory... well a longer one.

and just to say, i am not a full stealth build, i only use stealth to hide and get my sneak attack... and not to attract the attention of the bigger creatures. besides, a gun is not stealthy :P once i fire at least once i become a really obvious target

I feel I should probably note right now that Goblins are seen as monsters in the region. "Kill on sight" sorts of monsters, for any halfway-guarded area. XD