GM Knight's Giantslayer

Game Master Deevor

Zove, shouldn't you get 5 adventuring skill points?

Yes indeed, thank you!

Good call on the Favored Class Bonus, Cromwin.

I think you both also have a favored class bonus hit point or skill point, right?

So we are clear, if Cromwin is continuing to explore it will be without Maurie. She is going back for healing at this point. Level up will happen soon.

Zove I am afraid spellcraft does not allow retries, so you cannot take 20. Not sure if it is a rule, but I have always played you can take another attempt when you gain a rank in the skill even if its the same day so you can have another crack.

Retry? When using detect magic or identify to learn the properties of magic items, you can only attempt to ascertain the properties of an individual item once per day. Additional attempts reveal the same results.

Ok cool, I'll roll in gameplay. I don't mean to argue/be difficult I just need to know the houserules so I can prepare spells right. I can just do read magic tax and not worry about it after next rest.

I guess while the subject is still up though, can you tell me how I will identify a magic item (non-scroll), beyond just aura? How do I actually identify the properties of magic items? Do you just treat scrolls differently for the purposes of detect magic/identify?

Well that is not a houserule it is specified in the Spellcraft skill entry, if you cannot retry a skill usage you cannot do it 20 times which is what taking 20 is. If you can only use a skill for a particular task once per day, or in this case specifically get the same result every time you do, you cannot,

...continue trying until you get it right, and assumes that you will fail many times before succeeding.

Happy to listen to arguments that I have that wrong, but if all 20 of your checks show the same result as the first taking 20 does not seem useful for identifying magic items.

That you can role again on the same day if you gain a spellcraft rank probably is a houserule.

I previously decided my position on scrolls was incorrect - if you scroll back you should see this. Essentially I was thinking that Deciphering a Scroll was a specific rule for identifying scrolls, rather than a sort of exception that you can perform without detect magic.

I am not sure why you think I am treating identifying magic items differently? You roll spellcraft with detect magic up and if you get 15+ the items caster level you successfully identify the item - you took 10 last time for a 17 and the scrolls required higher than that.

Yep, no retries on either detect magic/identify or pure spellcraft checks for deciphering by RAW. My mistake, the decipher rules are spread out in odd places and I was listening to forums. For example this under 'scrolls':

Decipher the Writing: The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level). Deciphering a scroll is a full-round action.

Deciphering a scroll to determine its contents does not activate its magic unless it is a specially prepared cursed scroll. A character can decipher the writing on a scroll in advance so that she can proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use the scroll.

Makes no mention of failure/retries and (erroneously imo) leads some to believe the check can take 20, whereas this from 'arcane magical writing' does:

To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in another's spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell's level). If the skill check fails, the character cannot attempt to read that particular spell again until the next day. A read magic spell automatically deciphers magical writing without a skill check. If the person who created the magical writing is on hand to help the reader, success is also automatic.

And then spellcraft skill entry doesn't even have a detailed entry for the 20+spell level check without magic. It only mentions the detect magic/identify case as you earlier quoted.

But sounds good, thanks for clarifying, and sorry if I added confusion/frustration. I've always just used detect magic so never really worked through all this before I suppose.

Pretty much impossible not to get confused, especially since a lot of stuff requires referencing several rules, and a fair bit requires interpretation. I'm always happy to review arguments :)

Hey, I asked about this on rules forum a few days ago for our wizards game and never got a definitive answer, but can I fill my new slots after short prep time today, like leaving slots open? Or do I need to wait until morning. One argument is things like int headbands confer slots that you must wait for, another is that bab, saves, etc happen instantly so why not ability to fill slots. I am totally cool with either, just want to know.

Alright, running to my flight. I'll post back up tomorrow. DMPC me this evening if you must! By the book GM, roll those 1s!

@Zove yes you may - I think it is not addressed under the rules because levelling is not really codified, many people wait for rest before levelling, but my groups have always played it that you can fill in or use newly gained spots for spontaneous spells, etc.

@Brin no worries enjoy the Wedding, thanks for the heads up and I will try to roll better ;)

Now that Cromwin has some money, he would like to buy a hunting dog. He would generally try to keep it out of combat (it would quickly stop being a relevant combat contributor as we level up, and would clutter up combat more) but would use it for tracking people by scent, helping with hunting if we do any overland travel, and keeping watch over our campsite.

There is a listing for combat trained guard dog, but nothing on buying animals with other training. The handle animal section lists a bunch of different purposes you can train an animal for, one of which is combat. Would it be possible to buy a dog that has been trained for the hunting purpose instead?

As a side note, it seems very strange that training a dog for the hunting purpose doesn't teach it the hunt trick...I guess that's more for animals where you turn it lose to go kill something and bring it back, like a falcon, vs. a dog that just helps you find the prey so you can kill it?

Going to shop for some scrolls. Do I need to roll for 1st level spell scroll availability?

Also going to grab an acid flask so I can do something besides my school power on trivial-type combats.

Then I would kindly ask the other players for at least 15 min to prep my slots, but it isn't critical and totally understand if you want to rush back.

Cromwin I am fairly confident that Trunau has no bloodhounds, or the like, given that there are references to how tracking is done and they involve only human trackers. It is a small village, by our standards. Guard dogs are more viable, but I have reservations about giving you another body to control.

So what I will do is if someone else is willing to "run" the Guard animal, probably with Cromwin teaching them some animal handling as they go I will insert a chance to acquire one in the near future. If someone was keen on the idea and wanted to switch one of their level up ranks to Handle Animal that would be fine to.

Might also be a cool way for Grok to pick up his animal companion early if he is going that route so if he is interested and has a particular creature in mind I could tailor it to that within reason.

Or there are always the extremely awesome Nature Soul and Animal Ally feats which can grant anyone without an Animal Companion one.

I am certainly open to debate on the matter though, and own to being a bit on the fence. Generally speaking I think games run much more smoothly with a loose 1 minion per character urle, but I am not sure that is as applicable in PBP.

I certainly am interested in introducing the idea of an animal companion earlier (also spells) as right now Grok's not super into either. I think the small cat might be better mechanically, but it doesn't really make sense if it's cold, and I like the flavor of a wolf more. Grok is not super into having a more domestic animal hanging around, so could I get like, a baby wolf?

On the subject of animal companions, I'm considering taking boon companion at fifth level. Not sure if this affects considerations at all.

Pretty much a lock in feat for a Ranger with an AC for me Grok, and I'll see what I can do :)

Yeah, seems solid since it makes my companion actually be good instead of just another thing to keep track of and want to equip with more magic items.

Thinking about how Grok would aquire an animal companion reminds me of this: https://vimeo.com/39193992

lol, the Japanese and their sexual subtlety. I probably didn't even notice that when I was younger

? I didn't even notice that now?

...uhuh...could you uh...elaborate? I think she sees the old fellow in the clip more as someone who can increase her agency than anything else. The animal's just a thing to make peace with as well, and a cool way to show off how awesome Nausicaa is.

rofl, placement of the fox-squirrel's hiding spot in relation to the old man's anatomy, the eager way it jumps forth. Surprised look on girl's face as she looks down moments before.

LOL, I think you might be making up your own jokes there, but I do see your point :) Nothing Disney didn't trump by a mile though, Priest with an erection in The Little Mermaid = moment my childhood died.

Suppose that makes some sense, the biggest cultural difference between America (which is where I live) and Japan is likely the difference it subtlety. Certainly not the intention of the scene though, but Miyazaki is not known for making mistakes. So...maybe, maybe not.

I will say that those things also make sense for good reasons within the context of the film. Nature being seen as something that's aggressive and does not like to be contained but must be responded to with peacefulness (and in the context of the film all of these things are true). This also makes sense given Miyazaki's other work (particularly Mononoke), and in my opinion the old fellow must be a bit of a father figure to the girl. This makes the initial reaction on the part of the audience that the scene has sexual undertones less likely, which would explain why Miyazaki wasn't bothered by them, assuming they are a thing and that he noticed them.

To summarize if there are not sexual undertones, the scene makes sense, if there are and Miyazaki somehow missed them the scene is less good for some audience members, but mostly fine. If there are sexual undertones and Miyazaki noticed them, he just figured they were subtle enough and downplayed enough by the aforementioned parental relationship that the scene was fine as is.

By they way, are the boards being crazy for anyone else? They have been going down for me every couple of hours for the past few days.

edit: *sees post about the same in gameplay*

Yep, just posted to that effect in gameplay, and for some reason my Lazerus plug-in had been set to disabled so I lost a few posts entirely. If you do not have Lazerus as a browser plug-in I heartily recommend it BTW.

And Grok sorry, not trying to bad mouth the movie or anything. It's definitely my favorite of his with nearly tied second Spirited Away. I did a Japanese minor years ago and watched tons of anime and read manga etc for it. I see anime as a medium, not a genre, but still there are certain cultural threads, like awkward elder/minor relationships, that perennially make their appearance. Granted, Miyazaki is a bit on another plane of existence so probably not his intent. ;)

Going to go ahead and make a list here of things that I will want to get at some point, though not necessarily now.

More rope, always more rope, higher quality rope, longer rope, ect.

Pitons to go with the rope for climbing, securing, smashing, and maybe some spikes as well.

Bells and crushable glass to make sneaking up on us hard.

Flour for invisibles.

Marbles, because in addition to making enemies go slower when useful, pebbles are not always in infinite supply and can be used to throw at things, cast light on, put on the pedestal in place of that golden idol...ect.

Oil, because burning a house down may be necissary, it can make things slippery.

Tindertwig, maybe, flint and steel, magnifying glass? Fire is good.

If the axe/hammer hybrid doesn't work out then something else that is good for hammering pitons/spikes and also for smashing/breaking, like a crowbar.

Mirror for corners.

Pole for traps and uh...can we use poles to jump? Or just a quarterstaff.

Sling as a backup ranged weapon, which is maybe good with marbles?

Hook, for fish and stuff..it's light.

Maybe more clothes?

Candle, as much for wax as for light.

A better backpack, to hold all this stuff.

Anything else?

No problem, totally fine that you pointed that out since all it led to was deeper consideration/understanding.

Lots of people like Nausicaa most of Miyazaki, but I personally just see it as slightly inferior to Mononoke. Since you seem knowledgable, what's the argument for why it's better? It just seems less subtle, narrower, and shorter to me.

Edit: not going to post for the next few hours, by the way.

Huh, interesting that hunting dogs wouldn't be more common. I would have expected them to be used in a society that needs to get a lot of its food hunting wild game. Maybe I should edit that part of Cromwin's backstory? The horse training is the more important part, so I could just take out the hunting dog/falcon training reference.

Getting a Guard dog would be ok, since Cromwin could train it into what he would like given time. While I generally agree that having more bodies to control complicates things, I find the problems tend to crop up more in combat, where it makes combat rounds take too long, especially if someone goes crazy with buying a menagerie. Are your reservations related to complicating combat/action economy type of issues, or something else? I was hoping for the dog to be more for non-combat assistance, since they're not really durable enough to engage anything that could credibly threaten us, but can be a good way to get a little more use out of the handle animal skill when traveling/investigating/camping.

If you don't want Cromwin to have so much going on, that's ok. I think it would be alright though.

I would find it pretty odd for there to be a guard dog around that did not participate in combat, and I like animal companions to receive a great deal of attention and think that splitting that between 2 animals is either a dilution or ends up with one player having much more to do than the others.

This is based on my experience, and there has been an instance where I have thought someone getting multiple "minions" was a positive in a game.

If you want to reassign your points from Handle Animal I am fine with that, but I always regret GMs being lenient with this kind of stuff so I am going to stick to my guns. In retrospect I should have included this as a rule in recruitment, but I suppose I am used to it being a sort of tacit understanding/unwritten rule.

Grok, you are right there is much less going on with Nausicaa; it's probably just nostalgia for me, it was one of the first Japanese things I ever experienced. Bear in mind that was like early 90s when the internet was still 100% text based over dialup, so I was limited to what little I had in a midwestern VHS store. Pretty sure there was just that, Akira, Harakiri, and 7 samurai. Harakiri is probably my fav live action Japanese movie now that I think about it, so you can see what a careful critic I am lol. Actually no, "Funky Forest" is my favorite live action one, rofl.

When I did my minor in the early 2000s we had an actual Japanese person as the professor (imagine that) and a club that played her movies regularly. She was very excited about Spirited, I guess that must've been about right when it came out. Then early mid-2000s internet and endless access to all anime/manga that ever existed happened. *shrug* Not that knowledgeable really, but I did love trying to memorize Kanji, it was a great/fun challenge for someone like me (who is terrible at memorization). Favorite manga's are those by Tsutomu Nihei, mostly for the art.

I watch a lot of Anime, both the discerning stuff, and some drek. Spirited Away is certainly up there, but my favourite anime film is Porco Rossi. Akira Kurosawa's Ran is probably my favourite film, sumptuous, brilliantly acted and utterly enthralling.

Oh also Kuro Obi, more recent karate movie, find myself watching that one over and over.

Oh, and sorry Zove I tried to post this earlier, but lost it... Yes items under 1000gp are available if you roll higher than 25% on a percentile die.

Cool, I've been doing that backwards in IG, haven't I?

Ok, no problem. I'll pass on the guard dog idea then. Cromwin will still keep his Handle Animal up, both because he will need it to have Anvil do things when Cromwin isn't riding him, and because its the background skill that makes the most sense for Cromwin.

I also enjoy anime, although I haven't actually seen Nausicaa before. I've most recently been watching Hikaru no Go over on hulu, its been fun.

Haven't seen Hikaru no Go, but animes about such seemingly quiet little subjects are often intense and awesome, I'll have to check it out. I always recommend Berserk to Pathfinders as an easy entry point - well its not exactly easy its brutal in places. They made 3 films that cover the first anime well, but the first anime is also pretty great and there is a new anime coming out now. My personal choice as the most obvious candidate for the next great fantasy film series Hollywood should make, a side from The Name of the Wind. Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood - they redid it and although the original still stands up Brotherhood has better animation pacing and plot - is also amazing for fantasy fans - the Chimera has me in floods of tears every time, heart breaking... .

If you have not heard of The Name of the Wind, or worst have and have yet to read it, well, I'm not angry I'm just disappointed ;) It has been optioned as both a film and a TV series by Lionsgate, and while I wish it was HBO the fact that they would be doing both a series and films is amazing - if it happens.

Hmm, I could swear erase used to work on stone surfaces. But I see even in the 3.0 srd that's not the case...going to change the scroll type I guess if I can...2 feather falls instead.

Assuming I don't need to roll for mundane alchemical items like acid flask, sunrod, etc? Suppose Universal Solvent is a wondrous item though, isn't it....

Find it: 1d100 ⇒ 34

Well...so...uh...yeah. Not so much a fan of anime as a genre, it's more a variation on a medium which has its pros and cons like anything else. Although Miyazaki is my favorite director, probably script writer, and my favorite movie is probably Mononoke...so uh...yeah. But then that's like it, like I haven't really seen much Japanese style anime outside of Miyazaki and like...uh...I don't remember anything else. Oh, actually Grave of the Fireflies is another, about which I remember nothing other than that it was depressing. That's about it though. Not super big on television either, more a movies person.

Or books, books are cool as well, though kindof boring at times. But yeah, I've seen none of those, except for parts of Fullmetal Alchemist, which seemed fine most of the time and occasionally just irritating with the whole internal consistency thing.

So, GM (I keep calling you that, that's cool right?), you said:

the next great fantasy film series Hollywood should make...

implying that Hollywood's made some great fantasy film series. What would you consider these to be?

Anyhow, I read that Harakiri had great critical reception and Funky Forest has cult status. What exactly does cult status mean? I understand that it happens to lots of good films, but also to the Room, so uh...yeah. Maybe an obvious and niche appeal?

But I'm more interested in what happened when

mid-2000s internet and endless access to all anime/manga that ever existed happened

So far I understand you shrugged. Wasn't there anything interesting?

If you move outside of fantasy there are some truly great anime, you would probably enjoy Miyazaki's series Future Boy Conan, which is beautiful innocent and fun. Clannad Afterstory is utterly devastating and beautiful and has no fantastic elements, but if you enjoy things that make you really feel its hard to beat - its like colonic for the soul in a good way...

As for great Fantasy for me Willow, The Princess Bride, Lord of the Rings, and Stardust all qualify, but nothing compares to Game of Thrones. I would probably toss Harry Potter in there to, though my instinct is to be snooty about it.

I tend to listen to a lot of audiobooks while drawing, shopping, or walking my dogs.

Hmm...of those I've seen Princess Bride and Lord of the Rings, neither of which were quite what I wanted.

I suggest you read this, even if it's not just so that you can understand quite what I'm looking for: http://www.rivendellcommunity.org/Formation/Tolkien_On_Fairy_Stories.pdf

Is there anything which has the strength and vividness of image, the grasp of implications, the control of application, and the internal consistency which must be applied to anything which is Fantasy? Tolkien describes on pages 6.5-7 why literature is the best medium, but concedes that a so called Faerian Drama has a higher potential. I believe films may achieve this to a certain degree, although there is never quite enchantment.

Mononoke is one of these films, and movies like it are what I want to see.

I have to admit Princess Mononoke is not one of my favourite Studio Ghibli films, though I still rate it fairly highly, for me it was a bit to serious and lacked the joy and whimsy of Porco Rosso, Spirited Away, My Neighbour Totoro, or Naussica. In a number of ways I would say The Last Unicorn has tonal similarity to Princess Mononoke, though there are jarring differences, but I think they share that ephemeral sense of the fantastic touching the real and being tarnished and diminshed.

But you should definitely read or listen to The Name of the Wind, it is a story about stories, about how truth becomes legend, and one that can be endlessly picked over because it is so cleverly constructed and multi layered.

Is it me or could Tolkien's thoughts on drama be applied to CGI with only the faintest tweaking? Sounds like he is describing the Uncanny Valley effect at one point.

For typical fantasy, my #1 all time fav is the first book of the Merlin trilogy by Mary Stewart called "The Crystal Cave". Rest of the trilogy stinks, imo. That first book is a real gem, I've never looked at song the same way. Never really cared about Arthur etc, but its an amazing read.

Oh also more of a classic, or historical fantasy, but Salammbo by Gustave Flaubert is incredible. Its a translation from French though and I've heard not all are equal.

Not really the same type of fantasy but also Dune, for books.

I'll have to try Name of the Wind, you have me intrigued.

I also heartily recommend the Name of the Wind, that book was very good.

I cut my teeth on the Shannara series, though I haven't read some of the most recent stuff. I decided to branch out into some "non-standard" fantasy series. I really enjoyed The Powder Mage Trilogy and the Riyria Revelations.

I quite liked the loss in Mononoke, and how it's kindof just all about, as you say, the fantastic touching the real and being tarnished and diminished.

Except not quite. Because for the characters within the story there is nothing fantastic in it, nothing that isn't real. Everything within the world is, exactly as it is presented, this is a key point. In Spirited Away, for instance, the character is shown in what is supposed to be our own world, and then enters into the world of the spirits. I should like much better if the story had started out in the world of the spirits, and had never left it, though this would result in a totally different story.

Perhaps you could find a scene from one or all of those movies which exemplifies what you call joy and whimsy? I'm not sure quite what you mean.

I shall take a look at Name of the Wind, certainly. I saw a play called Mr Burns, a Post Electric Play, which told the story of a single story, and quite liked it. I wonder if there will be similarities.

Regarding disbelief and it's suspension, Tolkien's thoughts on drama, and movies, let's take another look.

I once saw a so-called “children's pantomime,” the straight story of Puss-in-Boots, with even the metamorphosis of the ogre into a mouse. Had this been mechanically successful it would either have terrified the spectators or else have been just a turn of high-class conjuring. As it was, though done with some ingenuity of lighting, disbelief had not so much to be suspended as hanged, drawn, and quartered.

When we watch movies, this is not so. My disbelief remains suspended while I watch giant talking animals, or a prince's arm being cursed by a demon, because it is presented on a screen, apart from us, confined to its own world, with no threat of changing our own. Perhaps animation can further the gap, so long as it remains over the edge of the uncanny valley, separate from us (though recognizably similar and applicable), and allowing us to appreciate it as fantasy, as something within a secondary world, not the one we inhabit.

And, perhaps most importantly, these images can remain with us and be far more powerful than the ones which a piece of writing can only suggest. People used to dream in black and white far more frequently than they do now, precisely because the images they saw on black and white media had a significant influence on the way they visualized things.