GM Kiora's Wrath of the Righteous

Game Master Kiora Atua

I am slightly confused, I though only occult classes could create mindscapes...

Both Mindscape and Mindscape Door are available as wizard/sorcerer spells, so it's reasonable to assume Xanderghul would be able to gain access to them upon leveling or finding scrolls.

Nice, I actually hadn't noticed that. Really interesting, it makes it possible to have something akin to a mage battle that does not involve fireballs!

But can Xander bargain with Dormamu?

Given his age, another few lifetimes of reliving various horrible deaths over and over shouldn't be too terrible ;)

lol, we just need to make sure Xanderghul ruins his hands while riding a horse with horseshoes of speed.

Also, on a different not, I just finished reading the first 1000 posts of the game. Still pretty interesting. Actually, without the roleplay, the caverns are... strange. All there is is a bunch of enemies without much anyone to talk to (I am at the part with the darkmantles and the mad wizard). Also, I was surprised to note how restrained Valaria was, she was much more indulgent than she is now.

Oh, which reminds me. In the first 1000 posts, everyone used inner voices to describe their thoughts, but that's barely a thing anymore. Any reason?

With the switch from Li'an to Isilme I think I almost completely switched from direct inner monologue to indirect, mostly to differentiate them more.

But back then I pretty much sat around at my computer in the evenings playing games and waiting for posts. I spent way more time thinking about posts than I do now, just because I was able to devote most of my free time to the game. It's harder to do that now, as I often get home late from climbing or doing other things, and spend a lot less time gaming now (Quitting WoW made a huge difference in amount of in-front-of-computer time spent).

Another aspect may be that internal monologues are really good to highlight conflict or turmoil. In the early days of the campaign it was fairly important to help elucidate the characters and their motivations. Our characters have had quite a while to define themselves now, however, so having deep inner thoughts only pops up when something of consequence comes up that we cannot directly talk to each other about. I suppose I could have inner monologue about Kule--as an example--showing how Isilme feels he could be redeemed and that she is interested in seeing where his story goes, but it seems redundant when I feel like her actions are pretty clear in that regard.

Also, the caverns *were* kind of strange. The crevasse of questionable life choices doesn't even have shocker lizards as-written. It's literally a trivial obstacle if you have rope. The other games I did that part in we usually just took off armor and lowered a rope down one side. Tied up and lowered Aravashnial, then basically had one person climb the other side and put another rope. Pretty dull with nothing down below as a threat :o The roleplaying was what really made the caverns memorable.

Haven't gotten to that part yet, I am actually quite excited about it. Isn't it where Ehren or Markus fell down a hole?

I think I moved away from internal monologue as I saw it as a sort of weakness in my writing. I tried to be more professional, though the end result is likely that it's actually less good. Knowing why my character is doing a thing or how it's feeling can highly influence other players.

In a way I think that's bad, but I think I may need to backtrack towards it a little. While I've moved more towards showing how Ary feels through actions and emotes, giving others a hand with what's going on in her headspace could help roleplay more. And the fact that there are less consistent interactions in the RP than there would be in real life (after all, even if I spent 24 hours doing nothing but roleplaying Ary, there wouldn't be 24 hours worth of Ary actions) just makes it seem like a good call to include more of that.

At the same time, journals fill that role remarkably well, just not in real-time. And Ary doesn't really keep a journal. And I haven't felt poetic... so ugh.

Interesting. I have to partly agree with the fact that inner monologue is not a weakness, but at the same time it should not replace description of actions. I consider them complementary.

Xanderghul just isn't very self-reflective, but I could definitely stand to write more for him. Whenever I go back and read the beginning, I'm mostly struck by how little I posted.

I hadn't even realized how the writing had shifted over time. I suppose that's what happens with a game that's been going for years. I admit, this wasn't exactly how I expected Val to develop, but I'm quite satisfied with it.

@Xanderghul: you mean at how much everyone wrote? :P

I mean, there are just entire pages where I didn't make a single post as Markus. It makes me a little sad.

Most of Ehren's early introspectiveness came from my attempts to roleplay his whopping 7 Charisma. Early on I had to decide how I wanted to portray that. Had I known more about Kellid culture back then, I suppose I might have made him more condescending toward "southerners," or otherwise skeptical of the Crusade's competence. In hindsight, I'm really glad I didn't go down that route. :P

Hinagiku - what class are you teaching that inspired your last post?

Haven't gotten to that part yet, I am actually quite excited about it. Isn't it where Ehren or Markus fell down a hole?

Better - Li'an fell down the hole! :) :) :) :)

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On mindscape - it is a cool spell, but a bit overpowered as written. If you take it, I will nerf it so that the size of the area created is constrained to the same rules as create demiplane. Also, I would change it so that should anyone who is in a mindscape take damage, or is otherwise fooled around with offensively, they will be entitled to a will save (1/round) to wake instantly from the mindscape. This prevents the spell from essentially being "save or die... without the save"... so you can use it as an illusion-based hold person if you wanted to use it offensively, or you can still use it for other creative shenanigans, as is appropriate for illusion spells. (Using it to supplement a bluff, fool a guard, or create a safe meeting room, for example).

And we all appreciate that too Ehren :)

I didn't really intend for Val to get so serious so quickly, but then the first person she'd fallen in actual love with died horribly right in front of her and someone hijacked her body when we tried to bring her back and... well I think that speaks for her hardening attitude well enough.

Yup, that's a pretty traumatic experience Val went through :p

I still miss playing Li'an, but that scene was just so worth switching to Isilme ;)

I kind of wonder, if the worst were to happen to Isilme, and cyclic reincarnation were cast on her body, who would come back? :P

I've had that discussion actually. Not that actual spell, but if Isilme dies, and reincarnate or resurrection is cast upon her body, who comes back? I have gone back and forth on it. Possibly Li'an, possibly Isilme, possibly an amalgam of their two souls ;o

Would probably depend on the circumstances around the death.

My ruling is that it'd be up to Isilme (the player). :)

The next time Ary dies, she'll be replaced either by a Paladin named Faith or an Elysian Kineticist named Soleil. Because that's how the party rolls. :P

Who am I kidding. Ary will always be the Bishop who returned, right up until a demon omnoms her soul and we have to wait for true resurrection to hope to get her back! :O

It turns out that Faith was actually sealed-good-in-a-can, and the bad guys failed to stop her from being released.

We need to keep bringing Ary back until her reputation with our enemies goes from 'the Bishop who will not die' to 'the Bishop we cannot kill'.

Alright, go-go gadget spell-lists. Let me know if you guys have any proposed edits.

Hinagiku - what class are you teaching that inspired your last post?

Hinagiku wrote:

Haven't gotten to that part yet, I am actually quite excited about it. Isn't it where Ehren or Markus fell down a hole?

Better - Li'an fell down the hole! :) :) :) :)

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On mindscape - it is a cool spell, but a bit overpowered as written. If you take it, I will nerf it so that the size of the area created is constrained to the same rules as create demiplane. Also, I would change it so that should anyone who is in a mindscape take damage, or is otherwise fooled around with offensively, they will be entitled to a will save (1/round) to wake instantly from the mindscape. This prevents the spell from essentially being "save or die... without the save"... so you can use it as an illusion-based hold person if you wanted to use it offensively, or you can still use it for other creative shenanigans, as is appropriate for illusion spells. (Using it to supplement a bluff, fool a guard, or create a safe meeting room, for example).

Would a spell that is a no-save death spell that also kills the caster be overpowered?

Also, I suppose I should ask: How many web shelters do we need to hold the whole army? We should have the clerics able to create that many, just in case there's a storm or something and we need to jump into cover real quick. It won't last all night, but that's okay.

Alright, go-go gadget spell-lists. Let me know if you guys have any proposed edits.

Now that's the kind of Archmaging I'm talkin' bout.

I think the 'no save both die' depends on the situation and caveats. Like, 'both of our souls are located in a crystal, if one of us comes back, we both do' solves a lot of the possible issues I see. Other than 'yeah, I'll just take out the big boss, now.' :P

Yeah, but if I use it on the big boss, then I'm putting myself in a 1v1 against ... "the big boss". If I put him in a harmless mindscape, then I'm removing myself from combat and I can't do anything to keep them from escaping. I can still do that anyway even with Kiora's nerfs.

Mindscape is designed such that it's impossible for you to die in mindscape. At 0 HP you're teleported out. Not that 0HP is good, but if the boss is at 0, we win, if you're at 0 we can heal you up :p

With the way it works now it's basically Hold Monster++ in that he still has to save against the illusion inside to figure out how to exit, and he has to spot you inside, which he won't really be able to do if he hasn't saved against illusion yet. Play up the illusion and he could be sitting out of the fight monologuing while we kill his guards, and then start forcing saves upon him as we switch to killing him.

I love that list of spells for the army, by the way. Awesome job of wrangling all that together :)

Increasing food creation will be especially important once the siege begins. We might want the rangers to carry diagnose disease instead of preserve, as the world wound's taint is significantly higher level than their spell can guard against. We can have them go over the food early on in the day, separate out the crap and leave it behind when we move out.

It doesn't feel good enough but I don't know what spells might be better. Not for mass combat.

You... Are right. That is pretty powerful. We can talk more when we get closer to winning. I just saw it and figured its a pretty compelling choice for one of two 5th level spells.

Mindscape is extremely powerful, but I think with the nerfs it is still powerful, still in line with the intended flavor, and still usable for a number of creative ends. The nerfs render it a particularly potent single-target illusion spell, and your group so far has been very good at utilizing interesting illusions and I want to continue to allow for those kinds of solutions to problems.

What is unacceptable, unfortunately, is locking a boss into a mindscape with no save, and even if he makes his save, locking the exit door behind 50 other doors, necessitating 50 move actions before they can exit. Meanwhile his body is essentially "helpless" - it can make no actions and is flat footed. Sure, the caster is in the exact same boat, but you can protect yourself in the mindscape by simply sequestering yourself off somewhere so far from the target within the mindscape, that they cannot get to you before the group manages to kill their body.

You can theoretically solve this by taking away the interesting part of mindscape (the fact that you can create literally anything) - and locking yourself and the boss into a featureless 100'x100' white room with a door. This would create the "1v1 duel" scenario that you are thinking of, a powerful CC spell at great peril to your own person, but IMO this balances the spell at the cost of the interesting things you could do with it otherwise. I would rather retain your ability to come up with creative solutions to problems, while removing the ability to immediately paralyze any foe without a save and turn them into a punching bag.

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I like your spell lists that you came up with. Does anyone else have any suggestions or arguments? Otherwise I'll assume your army prepares those spells tomorrow. I will list them on the army reference sheet for you once the decision is finalized.

I want to bring up though that "preserve" won't work because it specifically is meant to preserve against natural spoilage, and the Worldwound certainly does not induce natural spoilage. Diagnose Disease though would be a potent way of finding spoiled food without any chance of failure.

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I like your posts for the army. I'm giving Valaria a chance to contribute before posting.

I'm not great at balancing and altering spells really.

And sorry I haven't gotten around to posting yet, I was feeling sick last night and basically passed out right after my last post.

Feel ya, I've been out of it for the last couple weeks. Hope you're feeling better!

I'm feeling much better now, thanks :)

Hope you get better too.

Do we have priorities for what clerics should give up for healing when we need it? :)

I've forgotten, who's next on the priority list for restoration?

Day 1: Isilme's CON and CHA drain
Day 2: Anevia's STR drain and Ehren's CON drain
Day 3: Ehren's STR drain and Anevia's CON drain
Day 4: Ayavah's CHA drain and Variska's WIS drain
Day 5: Isilme's STR drain and Ayavah's CON drain

Nice job on the list of spells Xanderghul. I am guessing you had a day off! What is you schedule like over there? Monday to Friday?

@Kiora: I was teaching perception (sight, audition, touch, etc.). In the perception of pain, there is this study showing that expectations impact how long it takes people to be discharged from the hospital after a surgery. If you tell them the pain won't be so bad, they tend to stay longer in the hospital. However, if they have an accurate idea of the pain they will endure, they tend to be discharged earlier.
It's a bit of a stretch, but it's the same principle with the army.

Get better Isilme. Glad you are feeling better now Valaria.

EDIT: so, how come Ehren's charisma went up to 11?

Because Ehren's charisma at 10 just wasn't charismatic enough, so he turned it up to 11, obviously ;o

On the subject of Nurah, we should kind of press that issue before we reach Drezen. If she's the traitor, she'll be more likely to be able to escape if we haven't outed her by then (and/or be more likely to be able to screw us over).

Re: Pain - That's an interesting result. I think it definitely applies here. If we sugar-coat the worldwound here we may end up losing people to not being on guard. We don't want overconfident going in, we want an accurate understanding of the dangers ahead. Hopefully we walked that line well without being too doom and gloom.

Yeah, that's kind of why I went for a more inspirational speech than outright story time. After the very heavy monologue on the threats of the Worldwound, I thought making sure they knew that we could beat it and we can win was more important than talking about the past.

Yeah, that was definitely the right way to finish it off. Hopefully we luck out some on the weather, as the weird weather there could be really demoralizing. In theory from the weather descriptions on a bad day our entire army could be wiped out by fatal acid rain (probably good we didn't mention that), but I assume that's unlikely to come up randomly, 'cause wouldn't that be the most depressing, anticlimactic ending to our campaign ever? "GM Says: Acid Rain falls, everyone dies! Game Over"

Ehren, immune to the weather, just sighs, "Time to go collect more heroes..."

Maybe we're not Ehren's first group :o

Ehren gains 3 levels from leading an entire army to their doom, solo. It wasn't the most efficient way of solving the Demon v. Crusaders issue, but it was the most effective in ensuring the Sarkorians came out on top...

I love it when a plan comes together!

Then he heads back to Gundrun, hooks up with Alase and leads the Glorius Sarkorian People's Liberation Front to victory against the demons and remnants of Mendev!

Wait, this means that Ehren falling for Hinagiku might be our only hope for surviving this :O

Pfft, we'll just all reroll Sarkorians and push the Southerners off our lawn.

@Kiora: Thanks, I'd lost track of that post. :)

@Hinagiku: Ehren's great destiny demands that he better at interacting with people... so he has been getting Charisma boosts for mostly thematic reasons. That includes Iomedae's boon, and the ability score reassignment I did when he got reincarnated. He'll be getting Leadership at some point, though who his cohort will be is still up in the air. Maybe Lann can spontaneously gain five levels in paladin. :P

Which reminds me, I should probably start investing skill ranks in Diplomacy and find a way to use my Wisdom bonus for it. Insightful Interaction is my most likely option, I suppose.

Re:Everything else...

I definitely agree that we should see to this traitor problem soon. And Aron, for that matter. Which reminds me, there's something else I should post to that effect. I should have that up soonishly.

I'm not very good at the minutia of the army's spellcasting abilities, so I'm on board with Xanderghul's suggestions. I am gonna go ahead and guess that Survival won't work for weather forecasts, given that tornado we ran into the last time.

An all Sarkorian WotR game would actually be a very interesting concept to play out.

And Wisdom to social skills is much harder than I thought it would be to find. The only easy way I can find is one level of Inquisitor with the correct Inquisition. Yet there are multiple way that give Int to social skills instead of Cha.