Yeah - the reason I personally like techslinger better has to do with the fact that it emphasizes the technology aspect of the build, and also gives him an easy way out of not having to deal with vancian casting - not because of any concerns about optimization.
I looked at his build and I think it will perform solidly - the low levels were my concern. It's good to know that a musket would help make up for being an extra crippled low level spellcaster, though.
Right now the question is:
Techslinger 1/Spellslinger X/Technomancer
or
Techslinger 1/Arcanist X/Technomancer
I think I'd go with spellslinger, but I don't have an aversion to prepared casting either so :p
If it is any help to him, I'd recommend Spellslinger over Arcanist for these reasons:
1. Scales better. I don't care much about optimization, but it does kind of suck when your toys stop getting better. Spellslinger was built with an eye towards multiclassing, so much its signature stuff is not class-level dependent. Pretty nice if you're going into a PrC, IMHO.
2. Mitigates the issues with Vancian Casting. You're still using it, but Spellslinger vastly limits your sensible spellcasting options by cornering you into a blaster build, so there is less "decision overload" with spell selection/memorization and less bookkeeping.
Also, if he does go Spellslinger then a musket is pretty much a no-brainer since it gives you a nice little treat: x3 crit modifier on spells you shoot through your gun.
Oh, and this thought occurs to me: It could make "loot overlap" less of an issue if one of us focuses on rifles and the other on handguns.
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Yeah - the reason I personally like techslinger better has to do with the fact that it emphasizes the technology aspect of the build, and also gives him an easy way out of not having to deal with vancian casting - not because of any concerns about optimization.
I looked at his build and I think it will perform solidly - the low levels were my concern. It's good to know that a musket would help make up for being an extra crippled low level spellcaster, though.
Right now the question is:
Techslinger 1/Spellslinger X/Technomancer
or
Techslinger 1/Arcanist X/Technomancer
I think I'd go with spellslinger, but I don't have an aversion to prepared casting either so :p
If it is any help to him, I'd recommend Spellslinger over Arcanist for these reasons:
1. Scales better. I don't care much about optimization, but it does kind of suck when your toys stop getting better. Spellslinger was built with an eye towards multiclassing, so much its signature stuff is not class-level dependent. Pretty nice if you're going into a PrC, IMHO.
2. Mitigates the issues with Vancian Casting. You're still using it, but Spellslinger vastly limits your sensible spellcasting options by cornering you into a blaster build, so there is less "decision overload" with spell selection/memorization and less bookkeeping.
Also, if he does go Spellslinger then a musket is pretty much a no-brainer since it gives you a nice little treat: x3 crit modifier on spells you shoot through your gun.
Oh, and this thought occurs to me: It could make "loot overlap" less of an issue if one of us focuses on rifles and the other on handguns.
I'll make sure he sees this :0
The big difference between the two options is flexibility imo. As a spellslinger he will be a straight up blaster, with very little utility. As an arcanist, he will have more arcane casting options (because he doesn't loose so many schools of magic to opposition schools). So it's a matter of preference I guess :3
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On loot:
It isn't a big deal if you guys run with the same kinds of guns. I don't mind fiddling with loot lists. I end up doing some of that anyways.
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I'll make sure he sees this :0
The big difference between the two options is flexibility imo. As a spellslinger he will be a straight up blaster, with very little utility. As an arcanist, he will have more arcane casting options (because he doesn't loose so many schools of magic to opposition...
Very true! It mostly comes down to what he wants to focus on more: traditional casting or the gun.
I've got pretty hefty system mastery but prefer "fun idea" over optimization, and as a result I've developed a reputation as the guy who "makes fun builds work as best they can" with my meatspace players. If you need a second set of eyes to tweak a cog here or there so the build does the fun things as best it can, I'd be happy to offer any suggestions/opinions/different ways to do things.
An update from my end of things:
Finished reading the first book ("Fires of Creation"), yay! It's really cool so far.
I've decided to tweak the opening scene though, since it didn't have enough action for my tastes. Needed more sci fi flavor out the gate. I pretty much have your first little excursion all planned out and ready to go.
My current idea is that we will begin with your group already formed, but on your first mission. You will have been assembled, for one reason or another, by responding to a Help Wanted ad for Khonnir Baine for a scavenging mission. Go to the crash site, recover any tech you find for him, get paid. Easy, right?
In truth, he only learned about this crash site from meeting Grugnok.
Anyway, I want this to be a fun, light-hearted kind of campaign. (In contrast to my WotR that runs a little dark.) Campy, silly. I'll try and see how many pop-culture references I can cram in for your amusement :p
There will be some sci-fi horror mixed in occasionally though ;D
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Speaking of references... hey Kubular, remember what we talked about right after you told me about this play by post? Guess what my donkey is named :D
Also, I think I finally know why Zarzuket hates the technic league:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/drawbacks/mark-of-slavery
Also, how are we on firepower? I've been thinking of how my bard will fight, but I can't think of any good ways of direct damage dealing. I've been thinking of just meat shield-y goodness.
any thoughts?
EDIT: forgot to add two things:
...He is constantly worrying that he will come across as a min-maxer because he is putting a lot of work into mapping out all his levels....
He shouldn't worry! Some of us have the same problem
and also, is there an offical way to make a character sheet...? xD
and also, is there an offical way to make a character sheet...? xD
No. :p Some people like Myth weavers (which is actually a different pbp site) but most people just put it in their alias.
Kiora, you mentioned earlier that you wanted to limit the level of experience with tech characters had in their background unless they had a history with the Technic League.
Kaziya here's background is built around having encountered and worked with some minor tech outside of Numeria and the League (mostly because the League is super icky to me, and I really don't want to be connected to them), and that explains her being familiar enough to warrant starting with the Technologist feat.
If this doesn't work for the flavor/world structure you're going for I can retool things (either work in a connection with the League or wait until 3rd level to take Technologist), but I wanted to get Word Of God from you before I started making hard decisions on Kaziya's back story.
Kiora, you mentioned earlier that you wanted to limit the level of experience with tech characters had in their background unless they had a history with the Technic League.
Kaziya here's background is built around having encountered and worked with some minor tech outside of Numeria and the League (mostly because the League is super icky to me, and I really don't want to be connected to them), and that explains her being familiar enough to warrant starting with the Technologist feat.
If this doesn't work for the flavor/world structure you're going for I can retool things (either work in a connection with the League or wait until 3rd level to take Technologist), but I wanted to get Word Of God from you before I started making hard decisions on Kaziya's back story.
As long as you have a background that works with the Golarion setting that supports having the Technologist feat you're fine - at this point you probably understand the setting better than I do... so... I trust you to be able to do that :P
I brought that up mostly for the benefit of people who may not be super familiar with the Golarion setting - basically - that technology so far has been very isolated to Numeria, so a PC who is here for the first time will not recognize what technology is - they'd view it more akin to magic.
The cliffnotes: All technology in Golarion originates from the Rain of Stars - an event a few milennia ago in which a starship crashed onto Golarion scattering bits and pieces of itself across the barbarian nation of Numeria. Well...technically people don't actually know it was a starship...but it left bits and pieces of alien technology all the same. The BIGGEST chunk is in Mt. Silver, which is controlled by the Technic League....who is also the shadowy organization that attempts to keep these artifacts from leaving Numeria.
A character who has spent a lot of time in Numeria, whether to learn more about technology, or because they're native to it (like most androids) could be a little more familiar with it from the beginning of the game :)
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Oh. My. God.
There is an Alchemist archetype in the new Player's Companion that grants you a construct mount.
*~*~Clockwork Horsey~*~*
I desperately want to slap this on Kaziya, but the truth is mounts are a terrible option in Iron Gods. *weh weh weh*, I'll have to wait for some other future campaign to break out Prancing Gears.
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Naw...but then as soon as I've made an exotic saddle, I can ride my spinosaurus around! ;-)
if you can wait until 7th level, we'll have phantom horsies :D
will anyone else get phantom steed? xD
The advantage of the clockwork horsey is that you can load your bombs into its mouth, and then the mount can release it as a breath weapon. XD
This just ratcheted up to the top priority spot of my queue of future character concepts.
if you can wait until 7th level, we'll have phantom horsies :D
will anyone else get phantom steed? xDThe advantage of the clockwork horsey is that you can load your bombs into its mouth, and then the mount can release it as a breath weapon. XD
This just ratcheted up to the top priority spot of my queue of future character concepts.
Rofl, thats awesome. Alchemists get all kinds of cool toys.
Rofl, thats awesome. Alchemists get all kinds of cool toys.
They really do. They have fluff and rules weirdness built into them, so they're fertile ground for unique stuff like construct mounts, cloning specialization, tumor familiars... The list goes on.
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Very very true. I think tumor familiars are hysterical.
I play a wide mouthed halforc alchemist who periodically starts to hack like a cat with a hairball and then hawks up what looks like a tiny fleshy bruise-colored bullette (armadillo tumor familiar) that crawls out of his mouth.
More recently I've been starting to wrap my head around adding, say, the mauler archetype to a tumor familiar...picturing a gnome alchemist who flies around on the back of his hawk-like tumor familiar (after it expands to being medium size). I don't know if I'll ever play that one but it's amusing to consider.
Clearly I am not creative enough in my character creation.
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Updates:
Half-way through the second book :0 It's got an awesome Mad Max/Borderlands vibe to it, very cool. Also sandboxy, which I love.
We will probably start sometime in August as I have a vacation planned for then and will be able to get some serious reading done 8)
BTW, Is there going to be any time for crafting?
There are a few magic containers I'd like to make around level 3 and 4...
BTW, Is there going to be any time for crafting?
There are a few magic containers I'd like to make around level 3 and 4...
There should be, yeah.
ABP reduces WBL by half, though
O_o i dont know thats weird.
seems like a printing error lol
id let you make it for 500 gp if you cant find an errata (I couldnt) - doesn't seem too game breaking :p
Yeah, I'm certain that's a printing error.
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Updates:
James might be backing out of this, I dunno. Cold feet, I think? If he ditches, I'll be sending my WotR players a message to see if I can fish out a sixth. I'd be looking for an arcane caster. One that worships Brigh would be nice.
Finished reading the second book, Lords of Rust. That final boss, man, they're a doozy ;D There are a lot of ways to tackle that book depending on the group's attitude - band of heroes? bunch of mercenaries? straight up villains?!? Love the options.
I'm a good chunk of the way through The Choking Tower, the third book. Some cool encounters that are weirdly under-CRed, so I'll have to tinker around with them. They're aesthetically really cool, though. Also one encounter in particular that seems tailor made for Citrine. ALSO this is the book where you finally get access to a lab to craft tech. So...expect that in the level 7-10 range.
I think what strikes out to me right now about Iron Gods is that it really relies on the players to be self-motivated to keep the story going. There aren't a lot of "quest giver" NPCs in the traditional sense. You are expected to find little snippets of information about more cool technology sites from journal entries or from interrogating the bad guyz and then go investigate these loose threads on your own. I don't think this'll be an issue for what I'm seeing from your PCs so far, but I wanted to put that out there so that you're ready for it.
ALSO: if you haven't heard, legendary games is tacking a planetary swords and planets (like john carter of mars style) AP!!! It's only in kickstarter but is projected to be released next year....purrrrfect >:3 I'll probably cannibalize some encounter ideas for once you guys are zipping around the cosmos.
As for that, I still haven't decided if I'm going with planetary gates or letting you guys find/repair a starship. Leaning towards the latter because I think Kaziya in particular would looooooove to repair her own starship and fly it around. Also how the hell are you gonna fight space pirates without a spaceship???? ;D
My issue is that I'm worried you'll never want to return to Golarion, haha! I'm thinking limiting your fuel/sending you off to find a macguffin to save Golarion might help? Hmmmm we'll see..
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Updates:
Also one encounter in particular that seems tailor made for Citrine.
This makes me very excited!
Also I am voting for the starship. Who doesn't want to ride around the galaxy in style?
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To be clear, not favoriting James bowing out (though I respect it, if it's the right call for him).
On the other hand, *super* excited about the tweaks you're considering. Flying around the galaxy in search of some mcguffin?!?!?
/me tries not to get too excited about something that likely won't happen for a very long time...
Haha!
Well, I'll try to make the grounded-on-golarion parts just as cool ;)
Oh, I have no doubt! ;-)
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These past couple o'weeks have been CRAZY HECTIC for me so I haven't gotten much done :(
I did manage to finish The Choking Tower, though! (...not much of an accomplishment cause I was halfway done 12 days ago ugh)
But I finally got my vacay through - its the third week of august so I will probably get all kindsssss of reading done then yay :3
Hopefully I don't get eaten by sharks D:
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Halfway through Valley of the Brain Collectors.
Oh man. Might be my favorite so far. Horror sci-fi is my favoriteeeeeeeee.
Will need to try and work in a Dead Space reference in there somewhere.
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Dead Space?
I remember trying to play through that game once...
Once.
lol xD
BTW DM Kiora, do you have a preference for how I display Zarzuket's stats? I kinda just half copied a summon monster stat block and moved stuff around (probably too much). Want me to make it look like a monster stat block? Or an IRL player sheet? Or just leave it?
I'm fine with what you have. What I would like however is for you to make a header. On Zarzuket's alias, under gender, you can type in stuff into that field and it will show up on every post. I want you to put in your ACs, CMD, saves, initiative, perception score... and anything else you would like to have readily available :)
/me glances at the calendar, sees that it's the 3rd week of August and therefor your much-anticipated vacation, and starts to salivate a bit.
(Not that I'm excited or anything. Or impatient. Or looking forward to this in any way.)
BTW, has James decided whether or not he'll be joining us?
I'll ask him soonish becauseeeee
I'm done reading :) I need you guys to finalize your characters if you haven't already over the next 2 weeks. I need you answer the following fluff questions, to help me get a grasp on what we're working with.
1. What does your character look like? Please describe their clothes, and if they openly display any recognizable symbols (such as the emblem of a nation or the holy symbol of a god)
2. How long has your character been in Numeria?
3. What drives your character to adventure in Numeria? What will keep your character invested in this motley group?
4. How does your character feel about new technology?
5. How does your character feel about the Technic League?
6. Where is your character from?
7. What is their personality like?
8. What training did they undergo, if any, to become their class?
9. Why does your character wield the weapon(s) they use?
10. If your character is religious, describe what lead them to their deity.
11. Explain what your character's alignment means for them.
Please let me know when your PCs are all the way done (including my questionsssss) :3
I was strongly considering having Zarz be an ex-technic league slave, do they tatoo/mark people?
also, yay we can start soon ^_^
I have answers to your Qs (and a real name) coming soon.
What are your rules for crafting weapons/armor/barding before the game starts?
What are your rules for crafting weapons/armor/barding before the game starts?
As long yooooou have the applicable skill invested, go for it.
OK, I had some fun with the background questions. Also, real name: Small Tarl (and his spinosaurus, Raksasa). His profile is ready for review (though I expect to buy a bit more gear still).
1. What does your character look like? Please describe their clothes, and if they openly display any recognizable symbols (such as the emblem of a nation or the holy symbol of a god)
Small Tarl is a wild-eyed halfling with unusually long arms & legs, covered with black fur. He’s quite muscled for a halfling. He wears furs with many small totems stitched into the seams or dangling from leather straps: teeth of great saurians, a disk cut from a mammoth tusk...and a miniature “robot” made from twisted twine (that he crafted from the images in his nightmares).
Standing just behind him is Raksasa: an obviously predatory bipedal dinosaur, her hide a mottled mix of red and brown with a spray of crimson under her chin and on the spines that ridge her back. She stands 5’ at the shoulder and almost as wide, with three massive claws on each forearm, and jagged teeth visible between her gums.
Small Tarl often keeps one hand on it’s long thick neck when around people, in order to signal as best she’s able that the spinosaurus doesn’t need to be feared.
Spinosaurus Companion (Raksasa) reference image
He is very clearly out of place in Numeria, and often looks as panicked by this strange new land as the locals do by the massive predatory dinosaur that accompanies him.
2. How long has your character been in Numeria?
Just arrived, wide eyed.
3. What drives your character to adventure in Numeria? What will keep your character invested in this motley group?
Small Tarl sometimes wakes screaming with nightmares about something he's never seen--metal monsters. His dreams have led him to make the dangerous journey to Torch from the tropical valley surrounding Tolguth in the Realm of the Mammoth Lords where the Khoeli tribe have lived for thousands of years.
His motivations are a mixture of terrified-yet-resolute desire to Do What Needs To Be Done (not that he knows what that is yet, apart from his nightmare visions ). He’s also quite loyal and after building a bond with other adventurers will be invested in keeping them safe.
4. How does your character feel about new technology?
Awestruck, suspicious and drawn in, all at the same time. His anger and fear will flare particularly around robots but other tech is more of a blend of frightening and fascinating.
5. How does your character feel about the Technic League?
It’s a weird foreign thing in this weird foreign land...but his understanding of what it is will start out as next-to-zero.
6. Where is your character from?
He’s a member of the Khoeli tribe, a small compound-tribe of Kellid humans and halflings that dwells with the great saurians, in the tropical jungles around Tolguth in the Realm of the Mammoth Lords. Within the Khoeli there is a subset of unusually hairy halflings (Agathion-blooded aasimar) like Small Tarl who have a special gift of connecting with the great saurians.
7. What is their personality like?
Anxious-to-terrified but determined (bordering on resigned/fatalistic). Loyal. Has difficulty speaking in a voice above a whisper. Quick to charge into battle but not always clear if that's his fearsome battle cry or if he's just screaming in terror.
8. What training did they undergo, if any, to become their class?
Shamanic training from a young age, since his gift was known.
9. Why does your character wield the weapon(s) they use?
He made his and Raksasa’s armor from the hide of a mammoth they felled together . He uses a (small) greatsword--the principal weapon of both the small and large folk in the Khoeli tribe.
10. If your character is religious, describe what lead them to their deity.
Small Tarl listens to the spirits that guide the Khoeli tribe (whether he wants to or not)...and when he doesn’t the nightmares increase.
11. Explain what your character's alignment means for them.
What does NG mean for Small Tarl? He cares about the lives of others and feels a spiritual duty to preserve life in general (animals, as well as humanoids). He would feel very happy to return to the tropical jungles he was born in--and away from frightening people and robots--but his sense of duty (as well as his nightmares, which he knows are sent by the spirits) keep him from doing so.
As long yooooou have the applicable skill invested, go for it.What are your rules for crafting weapons/armor/barding before the game starts?
to be clear, since Zarz has craft(clothes) (he is the son of a tailor) I can get a dilettante's outfit for 1/3rd the price? :3
but Zarz can't help his buddy Grugnok to make some smexy clothes to match his incredible handsomeness? xD
As long yooooou have the applicable skill invested, go for it.What are your rules for crafting weapons/armor/barding before the game starts?
to be clear, since Zarz has craft(clothes) (he is the son of a tailor) I can get a dilettante's outfit for 1/3rd the price? :3
but Zarz can't help his buddy Grugnok to make some smexy clothes to match his incredible handsomeness? xD
Yep!
Zarz could... if he is friends with Grugnok prior to the beginning of the campaign :)
I will have more feedback later, but I just wanted to say now - Small Tarl is amazing :D
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Thanks so much! I'm really happy with the way he's come together in my head, now I'm looking forward to getting to 'road test' him.
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As long yooooou have the applicable skill invested, go for it.What are your rules for crafting weapons/armor/barding before the game starts?
to be clear, since Zarz has craft(clothes) (he is the son of a tailor) I can get a dilettante's outfit for 1/3rd the price? :3
but Zarz can't help his buddy Grugnok to make some smexy clothes to match his incredible handsomeness? xD
Yep!
Zarz could... if he is friends with Grugnok prior to the beginning of the campaign :)
ORLY? :D
I was already planning on having them go way back, I really need to finish hashing out their history with Kubular...
Tomorrow's my day off, and I should be able to dedicate most of it to getting Kaziya to 100%. At the latest, she should be done Monday.
Whoot for starting soon! I'll get Citrine polished up :D
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Will Grugnok be making liberal use of Rage? I'm thinking of prepping Moment of Greatness for extra fun :D
EDIT: OOO. I forgot we also have a bard! That means it would be help everyone. Super awesome fun time >:3
Would anyone have an objection to me rebuilding Kaziya as a Rogue instead of an Alchemist(Trap Breaker)?
The Underground Chemist archetype plus VMC Alchemist means I can get all the main stuff I wanted from the Alchemist class, and am basically trading my extracts for being a better grenadier/skirmisher and for more skills. In fact, I'll actually have a superior bonus to Craft: Alchemy than if I were a pure Alchemist! D:
Between a Shaman, Warpriest, and Bard, I can't imagine my extracts will be particularly missed, especially since those three provide about a Cleric and a half's worth of healing alone, and more combat buffs than you could shake a phalanx at.
Then the Scavenger archetype gets me all the theme-y Iron Gods/tech stuff I could ever need, like rerolls on glitches and bonuses to tech-based Disable Device and Technologist for free. The cost is I won't be able to disarm magical traps. That's a party concern, so I'd like everyone's input on their comfort level with that.
Flavor-wise, I'd be re-casting her as Ex-Technic League: on the run now, but looking for a way to strike back at them.
Edit: Actually! With Skill Unlocks (which I get for free every 5 levels from Unchained Rogue) I *would* be able to disarm magical traps. Albiet, at a -10 penalty and not until level 5.