Foxy Quickpaw |
So much for that theory then.
I guess these eagles are for magical plot convenience. I told everything I wanted but there is a lot of way left. Let's call the eagles.
They sit in the wasteland Mordor, everything is done and I don't want to walk them all the way back. Let's send the eagles.
I like the scene where Gargamel calls the eagles. And the result he gets.
Foxy Quickpaw |
Characters with low-light vision (elves, gnomes, and half-elves) can see objects twice as far away as the given radius. Double the effective radius of bright light, normal light, and dim light for such characters.
The low light vision only has benefits when the area with light is limited. As the starts and the moon shine for all:
Areas of dim light include outside at night with a moon in the sky, bright starlight, and the area between 20 and 40 feet from a torch.
Tamara Hart |
Here is the rules I referred in the glossary:
Characters with low-light vision have eyes that are so sensitive to light that they can see twice as far as normal in dim light. Low-light vision is color vision. A spellcaster with low-light vision can read a scroll as long as even the tiniest candle flame is next to him as a source of light.
Characters with low-light vision can see outdoors on a moonlit night as well as they can during the day.
So it does what you say, but it also let you see well in moonlight.
Tamara Hart |
A level up already? That feels sorta quick. But I guess we did run into a lot of haunts and all the battles were rather quick.
Have you decided how you want to do the oracle FC yet? I really don't think the original 1/2 level is too powerful (still way behind a sun+glory cleric for damage for example). It'll affect things from this level.
Foxy Quickpaw |
HP: either you take average rounded up (6 points for a pally) or if you want to roll, I'll do so for you on the messageboard. Decision is taken once and lasts your career.
About when the level up happens. If you're counting XP then it is indeed early. But we don't. And I think you got a feeling already what happens to 1st level characters in the Harrowstone if a nasty haunt rolls it's damage dice well.
As I told you a lot earlier, you definitely can have it for the first two levels. I was and still am just unsure about the following ones.
Tamara Hart |
I must have missed it when you said so earlier, sorry. At least we don't have to decide it now then.
What can I do to convince you? What aspects of it are you worried about?
I've already shown how this combination is weaker than a cleric of sarenrae with the right domains (sun and glory), especially with your restrictions on ability scores. A cleric would do 11 average damage per 4 levels(2d6+4) while an oracle would only do 10.5(3d6), also a cleric get two more channels per day.
I've also compared it to fireball, besides being more restrictive on targeting (only damaging undead and centered on self), 3d6 every 4 levels is only 75% of 1d6 every level.
If you allow the full version that would grant +1d6 per 4 levels. That's about worth a feat. The best comparison there is the half-elf favored class bonus for summoner, which grants an extra evolution point every 4 levels which is also worth a feat.
It's not like I only get to use it for cool things like destroying undead though. I also have to keep the party alive ;).
I just remembered, but I would have used the misfortune on the attack roll of the scorching ray against Herm if I had the option. In the future, if you are unsure if I would use it against an enemy, please rather err on the side of using it instead of not. I believe I did say I wanted to always use it against attacks from single enemies though. What made you decide not to use it?
Foxy Quickpaw |
@Tamara
I didn't exactly remember where that bonus should come from and searched for hints in your character profile. While doing so I noticed some inconsistencies.
You list as human (on the line that also lists as subtitle in the posts), as half-elf (which seems to be the real one as you took skill focus) and you apply for a favored class bonus that is listed with elves.
And before the question arises: Half-Elfs have their own favored class bonus list. They don't say Choose from human and elf as you like.
So as your build is focused on channel and some developer even admitted that nerfing it to 1/6th was probably to harsh I'd say you can have 1/4th with the effect already kicking in once you got to 1/2.
I'm doing a channel focused characer in another rules system that plays with pathfinder APs my self and you simply can't compare fireball with channel. Sure you have more dice to roll, but you could get that too with the oracle by taking the fire mystery. But once the number of dice get heavy there come along enemies that are resistant or immune to fire. And have spell resistance (An elemental fire sorcerer is no fun to play through the level full of devils, let me tell you). All of that doesn't apply to channel.
And not better than sun and glory. Yes. But that is the power of two domains.
And beyond of that we're playing an undead heavy AP where your channeling positive energy won't dimmish to some low power healing ability. It will probably stay relevant as damage dealing through the whole adventure.
I would even give it to you just for fun. I'm just worried that it will lead to you ending the encounters early and most effective and leaving nothing for the others. Even in the 3rd book you can wipe out 80% enemies of every second regular encounter in Feldgrau with a single channel. Now add 50% of the power.
Tamara Hart |
A half-elf has both the human and elf subtypes. It can also chose both human and elven racial stuff (fc, traits, feats archtypes etc). I don't have time to find the reference for it not, but it has been clarified.
1/4 is also pretty harsh. That's +1d6 every 8 levels, most fcbs are every 6 levels. Guess I'll have to look for something else to focus on then. :(
Harrold Bathshforth |
Tamara, if you read what Foxy said, as you stand now, your channeling will be powerful enough at it's current scaling to 1shot 80% of the enemies in encounters in later books.
I think Foxy is simply concerned that if you get +1d6/4lvls you will be able to 1 shot every enemy in most encounters and the game then gets very boring for everyone else.
You can still focus on channel, but not extra damage with it, things like selective, and other cool ones from here.
Foxy I don't believe is very set in sticking to pre-reqs requiring specific religions so long as the flavour still fits your character.
I think that perhaps you feel like Foxy is trying to invalidate your character concept, but I think that more she is trying to make sure there are still enemies left for the rest of us to kill.
Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
I strongly suggest that you tell us why you feel you need that extra damage?
Tamara Hart |
Here is the FAQ on choosing elven FCB. I fixed human to half-elf in the title line.
Sorry if my answer earlier was a bit quick. I don't always have as much time to play as I would like.
I haven't looked at the stats of monsters, but usually monster HP scale way faster than 3d6 per 4 levels (with save for half). Channeling tend to fall off quite a bit at higher levels as the monster's get more HD. For example at 8th level 6d6 is only average 21 damage, compare that to Harrold tossing out 3 bombs with fast bombs and rapid shot for example or Amira throwing fireballs and you see that I'm really not going to outshine the rest... Still, it's your decision to make, I just have to live with it.
Tamara Hart |
It's not that I need to get +1d6 per 4 levels, but rather that I think it would be more fun while also not being overpowered. As I have to spend my resources both to heal and harm, I'll probably need what help I can get to make a difference offensively.
I think +1/2 level is great, +1/3 level is ok, +1/4 is marginal and +1/6 is wildly unplayable. At +1/4 level as Foxy went with I'll look over some prestige classes to find if there is something else I rather want. I might go evangelist of Desna for example. I guess it's not a huge difference between +1/3 and +1/4, but I would feel a lot better about things if the decision was the former rather than the latter.
I'll still probably pick up some channeling related feats. Most of those do largely affect healing rather than damaging undead though.
Foxy Quickpaw |
From the FAQ:
Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races (a half-elf can select elf and human rules elements, a half-orc can select human and orc rules elements).
Edit 9/26/13: This is a reversal of an earlier ruling. This resolves a discrepancy between this FAQ and two Advanced Player's Guide FAQs.
So at least we are all on the same page about the rulings.
Foxy Quickpaw |
I just remembered, but I would have used the misfortune on the attack roll of the scorching ray against Herm if I had the option. In the future, if you are unsure if I would use it against an enemy, please rather err on the side of using it instead of not. I believe I did say I wanted to always use it against attacks from single enemies though. What made you decide not to use it?
I forgot that you have the ability.
Foxy Quickpaw |
I thought some about your choices as an oracle and you will run into some problems about your character staying relevant in combat.
The average cleric sucks in the magic realm until the higher levels come along. You only have buffing and protection and out of combat spells mostly and some save or suck spells like blindness. But the number of spells to cast is rather limited. The suggested way to go to make the cleric useful in combat is to be able to do some melee, preferably with reach.
Oracle has more spells/day but no better selection and is a level behind. And with life oracle the spells you get with your mystery are mostly on the cleric list anyway. And with your burnt curse you got such a harsh penalty on your attacks that martial combat is irrelevant.
That combined with the desire to do damage like a wizard/sorcerer with a fireball doesn't add up.
But besides my offer to give you 1/4 with the effect kicking in at reaching 1/2 (which makes is more powerful than or equal to 1/3 up to level 9 there is another thing you can have.
As the bonus spells known of the life oracle is a complete sham you can instead of that (not in addition) have the bonus spell list of the Flame mystery. Would also match your burnt curse. And your desire to do fireball style damage.
Tamara Hart |
Now I'm confused at how you calculate the favored class bonus. I thought you meant that the first increase would happen at level 2, then the next at 8, but from your latest comment it seems like you mean it'll happen at 2 then 6 then 10 etc, right? That means that by level 18 your version will have had 5 increases, compared to the 6 increases of 1/3 or the 9 increases from 1/2.
Tamara will indeed not use a weapon. However starting at level 3 she'll get access to hexes through spirit guide and she'll always have something to do. Even before that all the channeling does give her quite a few uses every day. I don't think not being able to use a weapon well will be a big drawback.
You misunderstand me if you think I want to only deal damage. I want the actions I do be effective, which for channeling means damage or healing.
I don't need, nor want the flame mystery spells. I'll leave fire damage to Harrold and Amira to take care of. Dual Cursed replace the first three anyway. I don't really plan to use my spells for damage much.
The cleric/oracle spell list is not as good as wizard/sorcerer, but it's not all bad. You mention blindness as if it's marginal, but I usually find that it's a very effective condition to impose. For example I plan to pick up burst of radiance at level 4.
There are a couple options for picking up spells that used to work, but have been errataed to not work. Would you allow either of those?:
1) Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) to learn a few sorcerer/wizard spells.
2) Spirit Guide to pick up Lore Spirit and Arcane Enlightenment. Though as written this would require int + wis + cha. Tamara doesn't currently have the int to use this effectively. Not sure how to solve that without changing her stat distribution. If I used the pre-errata version of Spirit Guide I would only need int + cha, making it easier to do, though still requiring a reorganization.
Foxy Quickpaw |
That arcane enlightment from the spirit guide stuff already hurts my brain without switching wis and cha for getting it as oracle. And it is not really good.
With the improved eldritch heritage you would get one spell known. As the second time you take it you would have to choose the 3rd level bloodline thing. Which would be two feats for one spell. So that's only good if you actually want the arcane bond.
Tamara Hart |
Arcane Enlightenment was incredibly awesome back when it actually worked, especially for a pre-errata spirit guide. If it hurts your head, lets just remove it from consideration. In that version, it let you pick your cha mod in spells from the wizard/sorcerer list which you could change around every day.
Arcane bond is pretty awesome. I might pick up that regardless of whether you allow Improved Eldritch Heritage to work. As for IEH, it would grant me one spell when I first pick it up, then another at level 15 and finally one more at level 19 or when I pick greater eldritch heritage, whichever comes first.
Tamara Hart |
It's in an FAQ somewhere. Something about only being able to cast spells on your spell list and that this doesn't add it the spells to your spell list (even if all other abilities worded similarly still works). I don't think three spells for one feat is anywhere near too powerful (and you gain access to the other two super late), but I guess opinions differ on that.
Tamara Hart |
Wow, that's a crazy amount of posts in gameplay. At least they are not all that long. Sorry for being busy and sick...
I guess we can level up for the morning even though we aren't technically there yet?
Also, Tamara as a human can pick that FCB, or would you disallow it? Though I much prefer going with the channeling improvement option.
Foxy Quickpaw |
I thought we nailed it already. What do you want her to be human for. For the eldritch heritage you need the skill focus so there is not really something to gain for you as human.
And yes you can do the level up already as nothing is going to happen for you until then. Only thing would be to cheat with additional skill points in a game of trivial pursuit if you find someone to play at the laughing demon.
Tamara Hart |
I thought we nailed it already. What do you want her to be human for. For the eldritch heritage you need the skill focus so there is not really something to gain for you as human.
And yes you can do the level up already as nothing is going to happen for you until then. Only thing would be to cheat with additional skill points in a game of trivial pursuit if you find someone to play at the laughing demon.
She is half-elf, hence counting as both human and elf and being able to pick the human FCB in addition to the elf and half-elf FCBs. As I said though, I think I prefer using the elven FCB even at 1/4.
From the FAQ:
Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races (a half-elf can select elf and human rules elements, a half-orc can select human and orc rules elements).Edit 9/26/13: This is a reversal of an earlier ruling. This resolves a discrepancy between this FAQ and two Advanced Player's Guide FAQs.
So at least we are all on the same page about the rulings.
Tamara Hart |
Level up summary:
+7 HP (+5 from d8 +2 con)
+1 Will
+1 BAB
+4 skillpoints (+1 spellcraft, +1 sense motive, +1 perception, +1 knowledge history)
Spells learned: Ill-Omen(Dual Cursed), Purify Food and Drink
Spells per day: +1 1st (now 5/day)
Channel 2d6 DC:16 (FCB to improve channeling)
I find it fun if everyone post a level up summary to see what each other have gained at each level as well as making it easier to check if everything is in order.
I notice that I totally forgot that I have two traits related to channeling, but I don't think either actually came up.
Herm Dunlaven |
Level up Summary:
+1 BAB
+9 HP (FC bonus, +2 con)
+1 Fort, +1 Will
Divine Grace (Cha mod to all saves, +2)
Lay on Hands 1d6 3/day
+ 4 Skill points (Diplomacy, religion, perception, spell craft)
Another question, when picking favoured class bonus do we always have to pick the same one?
Amira Ravenheart |
Level 2
+1 level Urban Barbarian
Skills
4+Int per level
6+2+1FCB hp
Diplomacy (Cha) +1
Knowledge (local) (Int) +1
Knowledge (nobility) (Int) +1
Linguistics (Int)
Intimidate (Cha)
Acrobatics (Dex)
Climb (Str)
Swim (Str)
Perception (Wis) +1
Ride (Dex),
+1 To spellcraft
Crowd Control
Controlled Rage
+2 Fort save
+1BAB
Light armor prof.
Martial weapon Prof.
Tamara Hart |
@Amira: Wow, straight up barbarian? It's not easy to cast while raging... I would suggest taking a look at bloodrager. It also has an urban version, but it also let you pick up the feat mad magic in order to cast while raging.