Brother Grergof Varsk |
Ok all, what do we want to do here?
It's pretty clear that these two have something to do with this but I can't say what.
My guess is there have another flesh golem working in the factory that they used to frame the beast.
We clearly are not talking our way in.
If this were Lito, I would say we raise an angry mob and have them storm the place :)
But sadly this is Grergof so that option is off the table.
So we could try to deal with this factory now by just breaking in, but I'm not sure if that would help our case. Both if we get caught or even if we get out Scott free and have evidence how we could claim we got it and get it accepted.
We could talk to the witness again. He might know more about any association between this place and the sanatorium.
Plus if he were to not testify, well the prosecution's case would fall apart as it seems like only his testimony ties the beast to the fire.
We could try talking to the beast again and see if we could find out where he came from or where he was at the time and try to prove that.
We could just try to beak the beast out.
Those are the options I see.
My choice would be to talk to the witness again. Maybe we can beat this one by destroying the prosecutions case. Because I am not seeing any way to prove him innocent with the little we have.
Oh did we ever check, is that really bleach in the vial we picked up? It would be alfalfa convent if that was some sort of accelerant so we could pin the asylum on them for arrson.
Foxy Quickpaw |
In the CC game I were playing in my pally went off to buy a wand of CLW after the first fight here. The rest of the players stood around and got arrested for trespassing and destroying property :P
You won't get anything like a warrant. I'm not sure they know the concept. Also like you found out the guys are respected and have people in high positions standing up for them.
That being told: Get in and find out!
Darius Redgrave |
I saw we either sneak in somehow or knock on the door again and when he opens we just barge in and look around. Justice must be served!! Rah rah!
Foxy Quickpaw |
Before you try your second plan.
You stand in front of a door that leads into a courtyard. He opened the door in the second floor of the house which is used to load carts in the courtyard. You'd have to fly to barge in when he opens. And If you can fly then you could easily move in through the large chimney.
Brother Grergof Varsk |
Ya, I know they have friends in high places, or at least people in high places they have dirt on.
That's why I couldn't threaten him with much but the angry mob to get in. Anything else he would have his friends take care of.
So logically: breaking in is dangerous.
We break in and kill people, his friends have us arrested and we go in trial or become outlaws
We break in and don't kill them, the evidence we get either becomes evidence of the crime that the get us brought up on charges, or thrown off the defense OR at best it becomes our word against theirs. And we are unknown and disliked outsiders vs. powerful and well liked locals. Who do you think they are going to believe.
Justice requires either a full on smear campaign before we assault (which we don't have time for) or we go murder hobo, break in and try to clear the factory out in one run then run away. But that would leave the Beast with no defense tomorrow.
So this isn't a Paladin thing as much as this is a logical consequences thing...
Stan Spug. What's your thought here?
Foxy are we missing anything big here?
Foxy Quickpaw |
No you stumbled on the lack of good story quality. What you know is that the tools were at the scene of murder in Morast. That would give you a reason to think they are involved somehow.
Now you have to overcome your scrupulous nature and kick in the door. As that is what you do in Pathfinder. It won't become clear before you do that. What you could have tried but missed was to detect evil on the guy. That might have helped your decision.
You would run into problems with the authorities if you indeed find nothing in there but some remote connection to some possible other culprit. But that's not how these APs work.
Brother Grergof Varsk |
Really? You aren't kidding why throw our the friends in high places if they are not going to expect it to play out?
And random Scan and smite for a Paladin of a redemption god? Ya in my book that's my first step to becoming a blackguard.
Just wondering. Does the AP handle the possibility of making a witness disappear?
It seems like honestly forced detaining of a witness for say 24 hours, or better yet convincing them it's in their best interest not to testify is far less evil then random murder.
Not saying I won't do it if the plot train needs it. This just logically seems like something that they would have run into in playtest. I'm used to plot holes, but this is a huge leap even fir an AP.
Foxy Quickpaw |
I guess every group who has some moral standards and is used to legal systems working by some basic rules would stand just like you in front of the doors wondering what to do.
But detect evil gives you a level of evil. It's no yes/no answer. Which is a lot more interesting than I remembered. To detect as evil at all a normal humanoid has to be either high level (minimun 4) or a cleric/pally class of an evil deity which grants an aura. Which means you can't detect at all if average joe's alignment is evil.
Now Mr. Grine here. He is not as evil as I thought for reasons of multiclassing. But he would detect with a faint evil aura.
And this only looks for you like a big leap, because you stop to take a look at it.
But a way around it would be to send your familiar raven in to do some scouting inside to find a justification to go all special ops on them. Or if you lack such a thing some other means of getting in stealthily. Little potion of invisibility for example. Scroll of fly maybe.
Darius Redgrave |
I'm gonna be the bad cop and kick the door down waving a badge of Iomedae and totally through my weight around under suspicion of nefarious activities. Call me Riggs ;)
Stam Truthfinder |
Brother Grergof Varsk |
Unless we get lucky, you do realize we can't win this if nobody else helps.
The thing hits my 75% of the time.
And averages 13 Hp
Where I'm guessing I hit 50 - 60% of the time and average 19 HP Damage but then it has some form of DR. So reduce this by 5 or 10 a hit... (So 9 to 14 per hit)
Plus it's very possible it has more HP then me considering I got savaged with the Ghouls.
Darius Redgrave |
It's cool. When it's my turn again I'll used CMW on you, that should help..I only have one memorised but it should suffice. So I can keep you in the fight longer. Just need someone to give you a better chance to hit the thing.
Brother Grergof Varsk |
Spug, do you want to leave?
Because we can win this fight.
Getting you out is as simple as me hitting the doggy, the 5' stepping back.
As soon as it follows (and you know it would)
Then Darius channel heals. You are up and safe from AoO then you retreat and throw bombs.
Heck the thing is chained, you could bomb it from a distance.
Stam I'm guessing is calling an elemental to give me a flanking buddy so you don't have to be close.
This is a long way from over if we want it to be.
Not telling anyone how to run their character. Just offering one of many options if you want to keep playing.
Darius Redgrave |
I'd hate to see Spugnoir go. He's Darius's buddy man. They're like Rigs and Murtaugh, Tango and Cash, Batman and not Batman :)
Foxy Quickpaw |
@Spugnoir
Just in case there are misunderstandings.
Try a flanking buddy. Spugnoir?
First part was a suggestion for Grergof, second part was only asking if you post, for you had an action left, while all others didn't. I wasn't trying to lure you into melee.
And I wasn't aware that you're down half your hit points. I just thought I could spread out the damage a bit because that would make it easier on the group as Darius can heal you both with channel while doggy can only hit one of you.
Spugnoir2 |
I took a hit when I opened the door and then withdrew behind the group(dropped to half HP) Then went and flanked. My bombs only do 3d6+4 and against a construct that needs special weapons would do piddly damage.
Not bored, the characters are great.
Plus I am prone and would get an AoO if I tried to stand
Darius Redgrave |
Sorry guys. But if a busy day so I'll post a bit later. But on my move I'm going to Cure Serious Moderate Wounds on Spugs. So if you want to bot that action before I get the chance to then that's cool.
Brother Grergof Varsk |
Hp check?
per my records Darius's CSW has me back to almost full. - 42/48
Darius, can you fix up Spugs. I know he is barely up.
Darius Redgrave |
I made a terrible roll anyway so wouldn't have mattered. I feel a little bad that I'm gonna have to kill these poor guys. But ah well.
Foxy Quickpaw |
The fastest way possible is jumping so:
A little excursion about jumping rules.
You're jumping 15 feet distance horizontally and 10 feet down. The good thing about that is, that you almost can't fail the jump for the distance. But as you have only +2 on acrobatics you'd fail it even if I give you +10 for that.
And then there is the ting that you need an acrobatics DC 15 check to avoid the first 10 feet of fall for the damage. But if you decide to jump to the factory floor it would be 20 feet.
Brother Grergof Varsk |
A crane! Well that's helpful!!!
I do want to steal s tanglefoot bag, but it's totally not a Paladin thing to do :(
Foxy Quickpaw |
I see paladins in all kinds of games punishing themselves over "That's not what paladin would do"
You didn't even choose a deity as far as I see. So you stay true to some code that is good and lawful. This is by no means the law of the place you are at the moment.
If your own morals are about rooting out evil you might as well confiscate their property once their guilt is proven to you. You define you paladin code.
Spugnoir2 |
More stuff found
12 vials of acid
12 vials of nushadir
five tanglefoot bags
three thunderstones,
500 gp in assorted coins
silver drinking cup inlaid with obsidian worth 400 gp
six syringe filled with an alchemical elixir.
Brother Grergof Varsk |
Grergof is a Paladin of Sarenrae. I keep forgetting that is not printed by default on the Herolab character sheet and I need to fill it in every Level.
There is a reason he is always up before dawn and praying as the sun comes up.
He believes strongly in the the Redemption portion of her teaching and that no matter how horrable a creature you were once you can still change if you choose to. Yes one has to pay the punishment for your crimes, but once those are paid you should be free to do good again.
That means having a legitimate profession that can support that doing good.
So he will punish them and take their ill gotten gains, but stealing their legitamitly created inventory is simply a bridge too far. To do so would punish hard work as well as evil.
He's not stupid, and knows the chances either of these two will ever reform is next to nothing. But he will give them a chance if they choose to take it.
So he will walk away and ignore the looting and pray for their souls.
That is why it is also important to him that the beast is given a fair trial. He has the chance to do good and should be given that after he has paid for his honest crimes (which seem to be none)