Just a friendly reminder: don't forget that there's still the problem of the gnome, Hookshanks, in addition to Giggles.
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@pyron, you can edit a post without messing up a dice roll.
I've done many tests on a homebrew recruitment thread I once had just to see what does and what does not change the rolls. See test 3.
1. If you add another die of the same before the one you originally rolled, your new die becomes the result of the old one, it is as if the first die you rolled was the new one.
2. If you add another die of the same after the one you originally rolled, result does not change.
3. If you just simply edit your post to include text, it does not change your result.
4. If you post with the wrong alias and edit the post so you have the correct alias posting, it does not change the result.
5. If you add other dice, but they aren't the same type of the original one you rolled, your original result still remains.
6. If you roll a die and then edit the post to have just text and get rid of the dice and then make a new post with the same dice, it does change the result.
7. If you make a post with a dice roll, delete it, then repost it using the same dice, you get the same result.
8. If you make a post with a dice roll, delete it, then have a friend post it using the same dice roll, the result is the same, if your friend rolls that die 20 and gets an 11, it is what you had before you deleted it.
9. If you make 2 posts with a dice roll, then edit one post to take out or add a dice roll, it does not change the dice roll in the other post.
The dice on paizo have a pattern, dice rolls change by thread, post number, and where it was rolled (whether it be the first d20 or the second d20 in post). It does not matter who rolled it, what other kinds of dice where rolled before it, or what flavorful text was added or removed.
Also, I'm okay with you having the wand. I would like the dagger though. Since I'm not getting much, if a better bow comes around I would probably take it, or if certain arrows I will take it and Rakdon eventually will multi-class as a Ranger, though with less levels.
Alright. Great. I have a dagger already, so I don't need the dagger. Would your character want the flask then?
Thanks for the information. That really helps.
I am not one to cheat. I am an honest person.
Pyron would be interested in the flask too if it is available. I am not greedy either. He doesn't need it since he has the wand, but that doesn't stop Pyron from being interested in having the flask too.
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Reposting the loot list from gameplay since we will get a lot more.
Le me know if this claiming is incorrect.
A wand that supposedly shoots acid (Make a Spellcraft check alongside Detect Magic to figure out the spell and number of charges). Pryon
* 3 Vials of Acid Pyron, Tolenn, Daud
* 2 Tanglefoot Bags Gaius, Daud
* A thunderstone Tolenn
* Leather Amour Doesn't unclaimed
* Light Crossbow, 10 Bolts Anyone who needs a ranged weapon? unclaimed
* A dagger unclaimed
* A Garnet (Make an Appraise Check to find out its value) unclaimed
* A key Gaius--in case I need to infiltrate and unlock a door to get to the gnome.
You guys can split the Garnet.
Does armour arcane check penalties go against using wands?
Nope
Perfect! Then I might want the studded leather and start using lots of wands instead of just using my spells per day. My character is currently wearing a hide shirt and armored kilt.
Nope. Sorry about the delay. Internet connection in Delaware is really bad.
Haven't been able to type up a response because my house is being repaired because a water main burst. I got about...eh, an entire room of hardwood that needs to be yanked and dried before mold develops.
My old man's getting sleepy from the work, so I gotta take over for an hour and help the workers fix my house. They're bringing in new wood, them fancy driers and a whole lot of power tools. Oh yeah, the dry wall needs to be replaced.
That said, I will post soon. Just gimme a few hours to get my house back in order.
-Fenwick
Wow! I hope everything gets back to normal quickly for you.
Nope. Sorry about the delay. Internet connection in Delaware is really bad.
Haven't been able to type up a response because my house is being repaired because a water main burst. I got about...eh, an entire room of hardwood that needs to be yanked and dried before mold develops.
My old man's getting sleepy from the work, so I gotta take over for an hour and help the workers fix my house. They're bringing in new wood, them fancy driers and a whole lot of power tools. Oh yeah, the dry wall needs to be replaced.
That said, I will post soon. Just gimme a few hours to get my house back in order.
-Fenwick
:( I know the feels, a few months back we found out our water heater had been leaking so we ended up having to completely strip the room it was in.
How do you guys get the spoiler button to work above your avatar's picture/below the character's name?
Put the [spoiler] in the Race section on your profile page.
Thanks
Just wanted to say a few things. I have been gaming for almost twenty years, and the last time I engaged in any sort of PvP (which was consensual and perfectly appropriate to the plot, only a fight that didn't result in any character deaths) was SIXTEEN years ago. So this was not a decision I made lightly.
I simply felt that Gaius was given no choice, given the circumstances of our delicate mission and (what I thought was all of) our quest for vengeance. I have no hard feelings, I just can't see Gaius letting that slide this close to getting Lamm.
Also--Rakdon: It is almost impossible to kill a shark from land with a bow at level one, given these rules:
Attacks from Land: Characters swimming, floating, or treading water on the surface, or wading in water at least chest deep, have improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) from opponents on land. Land-bound opponents who have freedom of movement effects ignore this cover when making melee attacks against targets in the water. A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects.
Dude I have enough arrows to kill this thing from land. Sharks only have about 20-30 HP. I'm not for vengeance, I want to be level 2.
And that, right there, is why I believe you should find another game more suited to your tastes.
Okay, roleplay versus video game thing. The DM never said this game has a lot of roleplay to it. He is doing his roleplay part, which can be fun, but we were not chosen based upon backgrounds, it was random.
So it can be played either way or a mixture of both.
I agree 100%, which is one of the contributing factors to why we are at odds, for sure. It has been my experience, though, that on this site with PbP for adventure paths most people lean towards a story-driven approach.
Re: the shark thing--with the -10 to hit, you need a 20 to hit him. On average you will do 5.5 damage. That's going to take, on average, 80 arrows. That also assumes the shark will sit there for 8 minutes letting you shoot 80 arrows at him instead of just swimming away.
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On and as far as video game versus story-driven...I usually treat APs as a modified video game, because it is prewritten and the DMs can choose to rewrite some of it at their discretion. It has some story to it, but a lot of stuff is linear unless the DM improvises. In other words, choices don't matter as much. In other words (50% video game or more, 25% modifications or less, 25% story/roleplay or less)
On homebrews however...I usually treat them as story-driven games that are heavily roleplayed. Because nothing is prewritten, unless the DM already wrote it. But still has the opportunity to change things. Decisions that people make have much more weight to them, not that APs don't have weight to them, but that weight is limited. But both have mechanics to them. In other words (50% video game or a whole lot less down to about 5%. 50% story/roleplay driven, or a whole lot more up to about 95%.)
GM INTERVENTION!
Technically you don't need to kill it. AP Book says that if you drop it to a certain amount of health, it swims away and you still get the exp. Wanna pull another Temporal Retcon and jump back in time to fix all this?
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Dude I have enough arrows to kill this thing from land. Sharks only have about 20-30 HP. I'm not for vengeance, I want to be level 2.
Yeah I have to agree with Gaius here, I play in PbP games for the story and interactions among characters, not just to level.
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GM INTERVENTION!
Technically you don't need to kill it. AP Book says that if you drop it to a certain amount of health, it swims away and you still get the exp. Wanna pull another Temporal Retcon and jump back in time to fix all this?
time intervention messes things all up, just move onto the next day.
I would like to have a word in and say that I enjoy playing roleplaying games for the roleplaying and story element. I play video games too, but the only time that I consider any roleplaying game close to that is Pathfinder Society, because you have to finish an entire episode in four hours or so. I am here to enjoy a game with some others who enjoy the game too. I care about the leveling, because it is an important part of the game and progresses it. I don't play for the level up; the level up is to enhance my gameplay.
@GM Fenwick : Don't retcon, Gaius was roleplaying very effectively given Rakdon's random wanderings. What he did made complete sense given his character's motivations.
@All: As for motivations....leveling should emerge naturally through gameplay, otherwise you're just metagaming and that takes away from the atmosphere that most on these boards are trying to achieve.
time intervention messes things all up, just move onto the next day.GM INTERVENTION!
Technically you don't need to kill it. AP Book says that if you drop it to a certain amount of health, it swims away and you still get the exp. Wanna pull another Temporal Retcon and jump back in time to fix all this?
Why would we move to the next day when we're in the middle of a time-sensitive mission. Fast forward to the next day....Lamm has most certainly escaped!
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@All: As for motivations....leveling should emerge naturally through gameplay, otherwise you're just metagaming and that takes away from the atmosphere that most on these boards are trying to achieve.
By leveling, I mean I want to check every room/area. I don't want to miss a single monster which means I could miss out on exp.
Or the monster can be tamed or it can run away, you still gain exp all the same. Like when Gaius took the dog as his own pet, I'm sure we still gained exp for that.
Sounds Great
Well, not exactly. I was back at first to pull you out with my whip (which has reach) because I didn't want to get pulled in. Then...
After pulling the elf safely from the dangers of the water, Gaius glares, staring angrily into Rakdon's face.
We are moments away from our vengeance, and you decide to take a stroll on your own? Have you forgotten Lamm's transgressions? You jeopardize everything we've worked for right at the moment of action! Do NOT wander off again. Come with us to claim what's ours, or leave, but if you alert Lamm to our presence I will throw you to his crocodile myself.
"Staring into Rakdon's face" was meant to imply that I was right next to you. Hard to do that from 15 ft away. And after I talked to you about it and was angry, your character's response was to not say anything and instead shoot an arrow at the shark. But this discussion is moot because...
@All: As for motivations....leveling should emerge naturally through gameplay, otherwise you're just metagaming and that takes away from the atmosphere that most on these boards are trying to achieve.
By leveling, I mean I want to check every room/area. I don't want to miss a single monster which means I could miss out on exp.
Or the monster can be tamed or it can run away, you still gain exp all the same. Like when Gaius took the dog as his own pet, I'm sure we still gained exp for that.
You're missing the point. It's not about killing vs "defeating" encounters, etc. The problem here is that our characters have different motivations. The rest of us want to have interesting characters that drive the plot of a cool story. You want to defeat things and take their stuff while gaining power. As I said, that's not a "wrong" way of gaming, and as you said, the GM chose us randomly and hasn't specified what style of game he wants. However, your motivation to explore everything, defeat everything, and gain as much "loot" as possible is directly at odds with our current goal--to defeat a character that has severely wronged all of us.
I think if GM Fenwick could clarify what sort of game he is looking to run here, it could help shed some light on this. Either way, I'm going to stick around to get my vengeance on Lamm. I'm just saying, if we're going to keep having these issues of conflict (which are more player conflicts than character conflicts) well, that's not fun for anybody and is really not something I want to do with my free time.
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Okay, but IC, don't you need to check every room, to make sure he isn't hiding any surprises. Or search the house? Even if you're not in it for treasures or defeating things, I'm sure your IC wants to search the house one way or another right? Make sure he is gone for good with any evil surprise or traps he left behind. If he no longer lives there, someone else has to and we have to make sure the area is safe before the government can reoccupy it.
I have some suggestions. First, let's agree to play according to the motivations of each of our characters with the understanding that we should find a way for our characters to be motivated and hooked into the plot that the GM gives us. Second, we pay according to how the character would act and react at the given situation in the game at all times. Third, if you enjoy going through all of the rooms and perfecting each scenario, then do it in a way that supports the story and is driven by the character's motivations. There may be times that it is not in the best interest of the story to get everything, which is what a power gamer intends to do. Putting the story first and power gaming second is a nice way of enjoying a story-based game while getting most of the stuff, say ninety percent. Many gamers like me do not think it is worth losing the role-playing aspect to get that last ten percent. I think this way of playing will help us enjoy this game individually and as a group even better overall.
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My characters trait was chosen child. So his IC motivation really is to get rich. and he loves exploring. So IC he is curious to know what is there, he might not search every inch of the room, but he will go into every room or almost every room. He also thinks he is nearly invincible. Heck, 1 elf magus versus a shark, no problem. 1 Magus versus 3 humanoids, no problem. He went off alone twice thinking no problem, I can do this. I built my character that way so I can roleplay him that way.
Gaius, or anyone else if you don't like what Rakdon does, you can always just not help him. Remember doing what I do means I'm more likely to get killed. I'm putting myself in danger, I'm not putting anyone else in danger unless they volunteer to help.
My characters trait was chosen child. So his IC motivation really is to get rich. and he loves exploring. So IC he is curious to know what is there, he might not search every inch of the room, but he will go into every room or almost every room. He also thinks he is nearly invincible. Heck, 1 elf magus versus a shark, no problem. 1 Magus versus 3 humanoids, no problem. He went off alone twice thinking no problem, I can do this. I built my character that way so I can roleplay him that way.
Gaius, or anyone else if you don't like what Rakdon does, you can always just not help him. Remember doing what I do means I'm more likely to get killed. I'm putting myself in danger, I'm not putting anyone else in danger unless they volunteer to help.
That makes sense for why your character is doing what he is doing, but it doesn't provide a reason for the other characters to travel with you.
It's like you said--the APs are a bit railroad-y. But people play APs knowing that. CotCT is about strangers who band together to seek vengeance against a terrible person that wronged them. In that experience, they form a bond and have a reason to travel together and continue the story.
The campaign traits are supposed to be the story hooks as to why strangers agree to work together on this.
Yes you took "chosen child", but you also took "unhappy childhood", and your written background mentions nothing of Ghaedren Lamm. Look at the two traits:
The oracles smiled upon you when your parents claimed you were of divine right, and you were raised with privileges few can fathom.
Benefit: Your starting money increases by 900 gp.
You spent a period of time enslaved by a crimelord.
Tortured: The crimelord tortured you and left you for dead on a garbage heap after you made one too many errors. Your scars and memories have honed your reaction speed and make you rather jumpy. You gain a +1 bonus on Reflex saves.
So you had a privileged childhood with rich parents and a mercenary background, but you also at some point worked for Ghaedren Lamm?
That's the crux of the problem, right there, IMO--I'm not saying Rakdon has no motivation to explore, fight, gain wealth, etc. He has no motivation to gain vengeance on Lamm, which is the impetus for the story and the glue that binds the entire party together.
If this isn't reconciled, it's going to keep causing problems. And true, you can go off and explore and do what you want and maybe it doesn't endanger us, but it ruins the immersion of the other characters into the story when we're at a tense moment and Rakdon goes off by himself for no reason and starts getting eaten by a shark, you know?
I created a backstory for my character where his parents were murdered. He exacted his revenge by killing the murderer and leaving his head on a pike in the middle of town. He was offered a job to work in the nearby city for the guard, which is where we are now. He works for the guard as a mercenary and bounty hunter that can do the dirty work, get paid, and still stay within the law. He found out about Lamm because of the harrow card. It was revealed on that harrow card by the GM that Lamm may have been behind my parent's deaths.
Pyron does not know if this is the case. I have been playing him where he is fighting for either for more money by keeping Lamm alive if that will make a difference or to find out if he was behind his parents' deaths and again, either kill him for vengeance and get some kind of bounty or keep him alive and get the bounty. If he finds out that Lamm did have them murdered, then he will have no problem if he dies.
His mother's deity is the same deity that Gaius follows, so he is right in line with working with him now and possibly in the future, which is why he is speaking privately with Gaius in game.
edit to add some more:
You may not know, but I like to power game as well and get as much as I can as possible. For example, he wants to get paid for his bounties not just by the militia but also by those who have been hurt by Lamm. Well, at least by those who are wealthy at minimum. That means I may get a little bit more gold or items than otherwise; in fact, this would be within the way the character would act.
There is a balance between spending time on the main story and time on the side stories. Sometimes you will profit more by not doing side stuff when compared to how much real life time has been spent on the side stuff that *pays* only so much when compared to the completion bonuses given by the main story arc. Doing one or maybe two side quests per character is reasonable when doing a main story; otherwise, the overall story slows down to much and it takes to long to get the main story are completion bonuses. This means that a power gaming mindset is more aligned with a balanced mindset.
Looking at your two traits. Playing in the unhappy mindset as the primary motivation for going through this quest should be the main mindset, because that is the hook for why your character is in this campaign. Let the chosen child help the flavor and the experience of the gameplay instead of letting it be the overriding factor of how you play this game.
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okay, but what would be the motivation once lamb is gone to continue? I implement them up as other threats are along?
Also, Rakdon is NG, so I doubt I should have to single out an individual, but say that he wants to fight whoever proposes a threat to society in general and who is evil. And to free any prisoners that might be in the place. Speaking of which, we could check to see if prisoners are around. If a few children were under his spell, he might have a few chained up slaves.
He is adventuring with the party, because he wants to stop evil, as the party is. He might not be doing it for the same reasons, but if they party wants someone dead, so does Rakdon. Rakdon believes this is a vigilante justice team.
Edit: As far as the unhappy trait, he wants not revenge on the individual, but to bring vigilante justice to all who are evil, so he wants vengeance on all. Have you ever seen the Punisher. He is somewhat like him.
I would agree that this can be seen as a vigilante justice team. The only reason that it is not vigilante is because my character has authorization by the sergeant to do this; therefore, it is a town guard authorized mission where the members of the team have personal vendettas.
Second, you have character motivation. Using your tools at our disposal, specifically your team, to the best of your ability will help you play IC. Since there is a team, and you joined the team because Lamm crossed you in the past, try to work with the team to reach the goal. There are two benefits. First, the team will be more effective when they work together which is good for a power gamer and it will keep the character alive even longer. Second, playing with your teammates means you are playing with other real-life individuals, meaning us, the players. When you play with the other players, everyone overall will have more fun and we won't have to deal with politics due to differing gaming styles. The gaming style we have proposed is more optimal for this type of gaming: online, play-by-post, roleplaying game.
In conclusion, I suggest start working with us as a team. If you want to go on the side and do something, mention it to us, so we can agree as a team and either do it as a team or delegate people to do it as a team. For example, when Gaius gave a brilliant plan to have the group split where one group went to the fishery and another try to find a supplier, we agreed as a group. When your character and my character got one guy, we completed the mission and had no reason to do any scouting, which is why my character was insistent on going back when we had captured the guy. In the end, if you have questions, comments, concerns, or difficulties, then speak up either in game or here, and we will gladly help you learn how to be a more balanced player for this type of gaming. I think you are getting the picture, so I am happy to continue helping you, so we can have a fun gaming experience. What do you say?
Edit:
At this point, the goal is to get Lamm. Once that is complete, we should of course check through the rest of the building. Then we need to take all of the scumbags who are alive, Lamm (dead or alive), and the children back to the sergeant. The shark may pose as a threat to others since it likely has had human blood, so it could be seen as a threat, but we'll cross that path when we come back to it when we finish Lamm. It is unlikely that the shark will stay around any time soon.
Once we finish up wih the sergeant, then we need to wrap up the mission. For example, my character wants to go to some of the other individuals who are wealthy that have been wronged by Lamm to get extra pay. Second, we will need to return to the lady who gathered us all together. Third, we have the temple to clean up if necessary. There may be one or two things that I haven't thought that will need to happen.
Afterwards, I have a bounty that I was intended to complete when I was sidetracked by this mission. The GM will then figure out what his plans are for us at that point.
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So, just in the interest of transparency--
A fellow forum-poster here (whom I do not know) PMed me and said he has been monitoring our game here for a while. While he has little PbP experience before recently, he has a lot of GMing experience and would be willing to run this game for me, Pyron, Tolenn, and Wednesday. He wants to run it more as we've expressed our own thoughts of characters driving a story, hence the reason for Rakdon not getting the invite.
The reason I'm posting it here and not just Pming people is because I think GM Fenwick and Rakdon are good guys, but I can see the writing on the wall. As it is with this group composition and slow pace, this game seems like it won't last much longer and I, for one, would like the story to continue.
Fenwick--I think you have the makings of being an awesome GM, especially at your young age. The thing is, though, that your first year of college starts soon, right? I am very tame by most people's standards (not going out drinking all the time and whatnot) and, keeping that in mind, there was no way I'd be able to have time to run a game with any sort of consistency in my first year of college.
Meeting people, adjusting to a much tougher courseload, a greater amount of independence/responsibility--I know my updates would be few and far between.
I think with those two factors, this game won't last much longer. Just wanted to get everyone's thoughts. I have no hard feelings toward anyone, for what it's worth.
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Okay, but GM Fenwick wants to DM, it might be slow, be he would have to find replacements.
If GM Fenwick can replace 4 people, I would have no problem with it. If he wants to backtrack to a certain point, like when we first selected cards, I have no problem, I'll just have to subtract the first loot I found and redo my gear at average +900 which should be no problem. It would re-go over some of what was covered which wasn't much and that little bit, he can speed run that little bit, if he really wants. It would also give me a chance to re-look at my character and his stats and feats and make sure that is what I want before my first fight. If not, the games continues from this point, and I'm not sure what changes I would make if any to my character, as I might have him just way the way I want him. I could ask to make changes, but I've always seen it as a bad thing to do to make changes to your character after the first combat has gone through, so accept you character as is. As I have DMed games in the past, I've always let people make changes up until the first combat.
I like the way he is DMing, not intense roleplay, but enough to make it fun. Especially the torture chamber part.
Might be the best option to separate like minds into another game, unfortunate as that may be.
Yeah it might be best to seperate the groups, this may be manageable, but as it stands there is just too much friction.
I think Gauis has a point. I would be willing to make the switch. It would make the gaming experience a bit better. I don't mind helping someone learn as I previously suggested, but the college years on the GM's part is going to hurt the game a lot. I can already see that happening. In addition, this would allow the GM to focus on the other game that he is managing. He would probably do better focusing on one and not both. Since there is another GM available to run this game for us, then we can move ahead as we like. Two thoughts: GM Fenwick could possibly pull Rakdon into the other game or he could find more players to do this game and restart it at the harrow deck, but I think he would do better just focusing on one game while going through college.
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I wouldn't have a problem playing ROTR, as long as it does not unbalance things. Ie. more monsters need to be added and more treasures to make it a fair fight. Like if there are 5 people are in that, you would 20% more monsters in the entire area and more treasure since you are adding 20% more more players. Well more treasures don't matter all that much to me, if I get a little less because of the treasures being split among more people, well then okay, but fights need to be balanced.
Now if the other group is like already 3/4 to level 2 or are level 2, I would need the DM to tell me how much gold to add if any since they would be way ahead of me in treasure value.
I would also need someone to tell me where we are at in the story and what happened would be another small issue.
I just wanted to say good luck to Rakdon and Fenwick and thanks to Fenwick for running the game this far!
Everyone else, I'll PM you the game thread link when I get it.
Here, here. I appreciate the game so far GM Fenwick. Good luck with everything.