Thanks for the input, Bella. And you are quite welcome... I am hoping that folks will be interested in trying out different tactics in combat now that you don't have to sink a ton of resources into something that can be extremely situational.
I'm considering getting Agile Maneuvers at some point because of this ^^. I'd like Belladonna to focus less on damage, and more on things like Trip, Dirty Trick, and Steal. I decided to do that risky BullRush because I wanted to protect Artegal, but I don't plan on charging headlong into an enemy very darn often lol.
Most of the homebrew won't affect Belladonna too much, but I think DH is doing the right thing. Dolgrin will be using them to full effect in the other game.
Sidenote: Did you notice that we've been playing for over a year now?
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Has it seriously been a year now?! I hope you guys are enjoying yourselves as much as I am!
I think having Bella focusing on Debuffs would be really cool. Don't forget Debilitating Injury at 4th level!
For soft cover purposes on ranged attacks I would say they still apply. As for reach weapons I agree with the lack of cover penalties, except for maybe a whip. I can see it being a lot easier to control and adjust a solid object such as the haft of a spear around someone. Rather than a flimsy object like a whip.
Yes, I plan to put them in the Campaign thread, but first wanted to run them by yo guys first before I implemented them.
Normally missile ranged attack rules apply. For melee reach weapons, another character between you and the target will not provide soft cover. That was the entire purpose behind polearms; attack your enemy with impunity from behind a phalanx of shields. I would agree with the whip being an interesting option for still providing soft cover; however, I could be compelled to examine a solid presentation for using the presented reach weapon rules.
Works for me, obviously. :)
Okay folks, I will get the official Houserules added to the Campaign thread later this evening. I will not be around at all tomorrow due to Christmas celebrations.
I wish you all a very Merry Christmas (or Happy Holidays/Whichever-Holiday-You-Celebrate to those who do not celebrate Christmas)! I hope you all have been enjoying this game as much as I have.
I think I'm going to do a little more tweaking of the next few modules to make them feel a bit more organic. As you noticed, this module contains a lot of fights that almost feel forced (i.e. the tatzylwyrm at the Eldertree...).
Merry Christmas
Happy Holidays!
My home computer uexpectely crashed. I hope to replace it this weekend, but it may be a few days before I can update games, sorry.
I'm going to strive for memorable items that you guys find as opposed to a run-of-the-mill masterwork or magical weapon. Hopefully you guys will appreciate that! I plan on granting you guys access to an enchanter if no one decides to pick up any Craft Magic feats!
That's the way I prefer it, personally. I'd rather have fewer items with more unique flavor.
Just as long as they don't randomly explode in 30 dice fireballs centred on the wielder, THAT was a "fun" sword.
30d6 fireball sword? Time to invest in Throw Anything...
Could be worse, the sword of Babette Maelstrom explodes into a 200 dice fireball on a critical hit.
Just as long as they don't randomly explode in 30 dice fireballs centred on the wielder, THAT was a "fun" sword.
LOL. So what you're saying is that you don't want a "fire" opal... got it... Umm... so then perhaps you should put that sword down and run away... quickly...
J/K!
I agree, Caine, I would prefer less items with more flavorful descriptions and allow the ability to upgrade the items as you like. I rather like the idea of utilizing found magic items to power the upgrading of current magic items on a full-market price value. That way you guys don't have to deal with the Magic Market as it were... I plan on altering the standard treasures listed in the modules to fit your PCs better, because of the stuff listed as treasure just doesn't fit you guys.
Hah! If we are talking jewels, then I want that rainbow coloured one...that one from Baldur's gate that was worth the most...can't remember the name right now.
Mind you, if fire opals explode into fireballs, does rainbow stones explode into prismatic sprays?
RUUUUUN!
You really don't want to know what Rainbow stones do, or maybe you do. Not that there's anything wrong with it.
Belladonna would enjoy items from races/cultures past, so no worries about that! But I really really like memorable items, even if they aren't mechanically enhanced.
Bella, I think we're still following your lead.
Hey folks, sorry on the delay. I caught whatever bug has been going around my area and it hit me hard yesterday with a high fever. I'm still mostly out of commission today, but I will hopefully be back to normal tomorrow. I will keep you updated.
I would have thought that summoning a Dire Rat would be a better choice, as it has the "scent" ability and does not need to be able to see the enemy to be able to attack it, but that's just me
Yes, but I don't think you get that template at 1st level, do you?
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You do if you are using Summon Monster, which is what Zirren's ability functions as.
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That is true about the template, I considered the Dire Rat but the fire beatle can fly and also the fire beatles luminesence ability will create dim lighting to reduce miss chance.
So Zirren is targeting the area filled with the Darkmantle, Caine, and Zilka maybe Artegal with Color spray.
According to the wording, it doesn't affect sightless creatures. So blind creatures remain unaffected.
Because of the Darkness and with the lack of Darkvision, the party is effectively blind. Which means that our party members should be fine and the Darkmantle with its Darkvision should be affected.
Caine is unconscious already so he's unaffected. If I'm wrong about the rest of it then I am sorry Zilka, and maybe Art, about having you make an unnecessary will save.
That's a weird one. Color spray makes colors, which is, by definition, light. However, the description doesn't say it's a light effect. Only that blind creatures aren't effected.
It very well might work against sighted creatures who are just in the dark. I guess we'll see how it plays out.
That was my thought process along with that plan. I'd thought that it wouldn't work normally in the dark but then realized that it was a pattern, mind affecting spell, so as long as you can see the pattern it should still affect you.
Illusions are weird. Is an illusion of light actually light? If it's dark, can you see an illusion light? Or do you need existing light to see it? What if you make your save? Is it dark for you again? If you fail the save can you see normally?
So many paradoxical questions come out of illusion magic.
I'm going to have to do some research on this one... I can definitely see both sides of this one. If a creature is effectively Blinded due to lighting conditions then one could reason that they cannot see the pattern spell; however, one can also say that creatures with Darkvision would not be affected because they don't see colors with Darkvision, but rather in black and white...
Let me ponder on this one. Also, I'd love to get the players' thoughts on this. If the party would prefer it to work the way Zirren suggested, then that is the way we will run it. I'm inclined to say Color Spray would still affect creatures even when effectively Blinded due to lighting conditions due to the fact that it does not contain the "Light" descriptor and is a mind affecting ability. However, this is a cooperative game and I would prefer to find a consensus on how we want to do things as a party and what works best for us!
So, please, weigh in on this!
okay I am usually not very good at these things, but if I understand it, the spell, Darkness, drops the illumination level in the area of effect by one category (did we establish what the initial level actually was?).
If we are in Darkness now (50% miss chance) and only those with Darkvision can see, and a spell is cast that is an illusion that requires sight to be of affect, but does not create illumination, then I would say that creatures who can "see" in the given illumination conditions, regardless of what they can see, are affected, while creatures who cannot see, are prevented from being considered as targets of the spell. This would be my opinion no matter why the condition of Darkness existed (natural or magical).
An illusion is put before your eyes and you "see" it (if you are an eligible target of the spell, if you can "see"), your mind responds to that by interpreting it as "a clash of colors" or some other thing that your race is bothered by when the eyes are overstimulated by such an effect.
The ambient light in the room is Darkness.
Then the Darkness spell does nothing but prevent us from increasing the lighting condition without the use of magic. We are all unable to see, and have a 50% miss chance even when we try to hit something assuming we guess where it is in the first place.
The rest of what I said still stands.
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The spell doesn't say anything about darkness negating its effects. All it says is that if your eyes do not work it doesn't work. Our eyes are working just fine. They are seeing what exists to be seen in the room which is nothing. Darkness.
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Correcto, Art! Pretty much the only way to counter Darkness at this level is with an Everburning Torch or have Darkvision if the spell drops light levels to Darkness territory. So far we have two suggest the spell only function for those who can physically see the spell and one who suggests it would still function properly even in complete darkness.
Also, Zirren, to answer your question about templates you can apply to your summons, I would be fine with the two your proposed.
The real question then is if color spray makes light, and if it does, is it bright enough to be seen through magical darkness.
That's the big conundrum. In my opinion, Color Spray should contain the Light descriptor as part of the spell, because color is simply a refraction of light and that should be the portion of the spell which causes the Blinded condition. Stunned and Unconsciousness would be part of the Pattern descriptor. That being said... since Color Spray is only a 1st level spell, it would have no effect on the Darkness, because Darkness is a 2nd level spell.
There are other spectrums of light though; Infrared, Visible, Ultraviolet, etc... Which is why I would think the spell would probably still work in Darkness. But... again, I want to run things the way the majority wants to. I'm not a big fan of the GM vs. PC type situation. Sometimes it's necessary, but otherwise I'm not here to attempt to kill your PCs.
Zilka has a good point
"sightless creatures are not affected by Color Spray"
so the real question becomes
What does "Sightless" mean, exactly, Blinded, Blindfolded, Holding your eyes shut, your head is in a bucket, you are in Darkness and do not have Darkvision?
The Merriam Webster definition of "Sightless" is "Not able to see"
Our characters, while within the area of Magical Darkness, are by the rules, Not Able To See.
This is what it says in the PRD about Darkness (the condition, not the spell)
In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded. In addition to the obvious effects, a blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat (all opponents have total concealment), loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, takes a –2 penalty to AC, and takes a –4 penalty on Perception checks that rely on sight and most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. Areas of darkness include an unlit dungeon chamber, most caverns, and outside on a cloudy, moonless night.
I agree with the theory that if you are effectively blinded by the various conditions pointed out by Art, you cannot be targeted by Colir spray.
I don't think it should be counted as a light spell, as both light and Darkness spells fall into the evocation school and are therefor real effects, rather than false perceptions. However, I also believe that magic should be more flexible and up to GM/player interpretation on how certain spells mix with and affect each other.
I agree with the GM that perhaps the blinding color effect could be negated in darkness, but the stunning and unconscious still work as normal.
Although it could be that the pattern effect acts more like a strobe light and even though you don't get to see the differing colors, its like staring into a black and white spiral that attacks your senses which wildly dilates your pupils.
Our eyes are seeing perfectly. What they are seeing is darkness.
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^ this.
Our eyes work fine. It's just dark. If color spray makes light, we can all see it. If it doesn't, only things with dark vision can see it.
The rules about light are kinda backwards to begin with, and throwing in layers of "is illusion light real light" and "does a darkness effect cancel out an illusion of light even though the illusion isn't a Light effect" just makes things even muddier.
This is one of those situations that has so many layers of weird corner case rules that the only way to resolve it is through GM adjudication.
Zirren - excellent idea to put this up in the rules forum. I feel I am losing there, but I stand by my interpretation
I just dropped out of that conversation. Sorry I've said all I will about it.
Do I need to roll a save?
That is one heck of a discussion I caused with my maneuver. After reading through all of that I'm still in agreement with Nathaniel, but ultimately you are the arbiter here GM. What's your call?
Did Zirren's spell theory pay off, or does he need to go back to the drawing board?