Welcome to Iron Gods!
Iron Gods is set to be released in a week but we probably won't be able to start for a while after that what with GenCon coming up. I imagine it might take people a while to get their characters settled anyways.
Speaking of which, here is the homebrew rules document. I also forgot to mention on there that starting gold is maximum for your class.
When creating your character also be sure to read through the Iron Gods Player's Guide. Also note that the forthcoming Technology Guide may have some interesting options, as well might the new People of the Stars.
Checking in.
Dotting. I've just downloaded People of the Stars, Technology Guide and the Advanced Class Guide so I'll take some time to read that (just the archetypes for technology guide, I want to keep surprises for the AP).
As for character choice, I was thinking a Bloodrager with the Aberrant bloodline, but it seems a very hard character to play with two houserules imposing the fatigued condition and thus preventing someone to rage. I love the houserules, but it's just the wrong character to play with them, especially since it would mean that such a character would never spend the second half of his spellpoints because he couldn't enter rage anymore.
So I'm thinking about other character concepts, like an Oracle with the Metal mystery, though I'd need pretty much all the ability scores except Wis at a medium to high score, it's very, very MAD.
What about you Tektite, any ideas on what you want to play?
Yeah, I realize the fatigued rule is really rough on barbs and other classes who rage. I'm debating a way of getting rid of it so you don't have to walk around fatigued every day (maybe once your HP are back above the limit, fatigued/exhausted go away or at least go away after a certain number of minutes or a Heal check, etc). I will likely alter this rule before we start so don't let it deter you from playing a barb, bloodrager, or anything else with rage.
Being fatigued at lower than half spell points really only negatively effects bloodragers and you could still function well enough I think. As far as I know, you don't have to drop out of rage if you become fatigued after already entering rage so you could start raging, cast some spells and become fatigued from low spell points (but still raging!) and keep fighting just fine. Any fights after that would be tough but if you're running low on spells you might not be fighting much longer anyways.
And bloodragers don't have to worry about spells for the first few levels and then a few levels later the full spellcasters should have access to Heal and Restoration or other methods to get rid of your fatigued status from your spell points.
Anyways, carry on with the character creations!
@Lithrac: I haven't really formulated an idea yet. Haven't even had a chance to read the Guide. I'm going to peruse this evening as well as my Numeria Campaign Setting.
Good point about not having to go out of rage immediately if you're fatigued. Also, thanks for considering the alteration of that rule, it would indeed be very hard on the ragers! I'll explore the various possibilities and see what I can come up with that matches the tone/mood of the AP.
Gunslinger is an obvious choice but I really don't like that class, so I won't play one. The spell points system with the Constitution-based bonus spell points is very interesting, so I would most likely regret not playing a caster of some kind. Oracle of Metal seems to fit the tone, but it's very MAD, like the Bloodrager in fact. Both would have few skill points, which I find a little boring given the exciting perspective of skills with the houserules.
Also a thought - lesser restoration removes fatigue, so it's going to be an even more interesting spell for divine casters than it already is!
Ah, I forgot about lesser restoration removing fatigue. See, the rule's not so bad as it sounds! A wand of lesser restoration and you can go all day! But I'll still probably change the ruling regarding HP and fatigue/exhaustion. But for spellcasting I think I'll keep it how it is. Magic should draw a lot out of you. And once you can afford a wand of lesser restoration you can just bap yourself after each fight I guess.
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As for skill points: I haven't gone through the ACG classes yet. Any class that only has 2 + Int will be moved to 4 + Int at the very least. I'll note any other changes soon.
Ok, updated the Skills section to add:
Warpriest: 4 + Int
Concerning MADness: I actually considered changing some classes to "+ Wis" for skills (mostly the divine casters plus monk) not only to ease their MADness but also to represent where their talents are coming from (passed on wisdom instead of formal training or teaching like Int implies).
This was in the first draft of the document and then I removed it because I thought it made Int far too easy to dump for these classes (and it's already too easy to dump for most people, in my opinion). I might be persuaded to change it back and have some classes based on Wis for skill points but right now I'm of the opinion that it would make Int almost useless to any non-Int-based caster and I don't really want to do that.
I think I just fell in love.
Will you allow the Technomancer prestige class (Technology Guide p.14-15)? If so, I'd love to play a wizard evolving into a Technomancer.
I've just looked at archetypes and prestige class in the Technology Guide to avoid spoilers regarding technology, but could you tell me what is necessary to repair/use/craft technological items? I assume the Technologist feat mentioned in the Iron Gods Player's Guide is a good start, but any other feat/skills involved? Does it work like magic item crafting?
Hmmm, gunslinger might be kinda cool. I like the flavor of the Gun Scavanger archetype in Inner Sea Combat. Pair that up with a crafter gnome, hmmm. I also plan on eventually building a Spellscar Drfiter for PFS, this might be ideal to try it out, maybe multiclass the two in order to help the gnome's speed.
I just got the email today that my subscription PDFs were available so I'm just now opening the Technology Guide to look through it. I'll have to get back to you on all that. My first instinct is to say yes on the Technomancer if for no other reason than I would feel dirty disallowing it in the one AP that is focused on technology.
Lucky dog! I haven't got mine yet. That's means I should get it any day now. Might have to wait to see that.
Yeah, and that means I have the PDF for Fires of Creation already too! I'll get to looking at it soon. But first:
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Technology Guide:
@Tek: if you're considering gunslinger you may want to look below.
Deeds: Techslingers have access to all gunslinger deeds, except as noted below for new deeds that replace standard gunslinger deeds.
Covet Charge (Ex): At 1st level, a techslinger can spend 1 grit point to use 1 charge fewer than normal when firing a technological weapon (minimum 0), as long as the weapon has enough charges remaining to be fired at least once. This deed replaces deadeye.
Reliable (Ex): At 1st level, a techslinger can spend 1 grit point as a free action to prevent a timeworn firearm from glitching. This deed replaces quick clear.
Charge Recycling (Ex): At 11th level, by spending 1 grit point, a techslinger can grant 1 temporary charge to a technological firearm, even if the firearm normally can no longer be recharged. This charge must be used within 1 hour or it fades. The techslinger can grant temporary charges to multiple firearms as long as she has enough grit, but temporary charges do not stack with themselves in the same firearm. At 15th level, the techslinger can grant 2 temporary charges when she uses this deed, and at 19th level, she can grant 3 temporary charges. This deed replaces expert loading.
Heavy Weaponry Deeds (Ex): At 11th level, as long as the techslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can treat a heavy weapon as a firearm for the purpose of using deeds.
Bonus Feats: A techslinger can select Technologist as a bonus feat, even though it’s neither a combat nor a grit feat.
Technic Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a techslinger can select one specific type of advanced technology firearm (such as a laser pistol, mindrender, stun gun, or zero rifle). Thereafter, she gains a bonus equal to her Dexterity modifier on damage rolls when using that firearm. Furthermore, she treats all detrimental glitches of timeworn versions of her selected firearm as a result of no glitch. (She can retain the effects of beneficial glitches if she wishes.) Every 4 levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), the techslinger selects another type of advanced technology firearm, gaining these bonuses for those types as well. This ability replaces gun training.
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People of the Stars:
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Also, I'm still waiting to hear back from Neb and Tangaroa but Becca aka Mrs. Endless has decided to join in!
Oh, and in case I didn't mention it before:
Supposedly Wrath of the Righteous was the exception to the rule and all new APs are supposed to be sanctioned for PFS credit. Iron Gods has not specifically been commented on yet, but assuming it is sanctioned I'll be handing out "campaign-mode" PFS credit at the end of each book.
Compton mentioned here that they anticipate it being sanctioned.
Wonderful about your wife joining! Also, I hope Tangaroa will say yes, because he's an amazing guy and very fun to play with.
I'll definitely play a wizard/technomancer, then!
About the Technomancer and the problematic crafting: why not houserule that the technomancer can only craft with the parts he salvages from other technological items, and allow us to find "schematics" / blueprints over the course of the adventure as loot, thus allowing the technomancer to craft a limited number of items, only with spare parts, and still keep the vast majority of the technological items a mystery?
I think rather than blueprints I'll have the Technomancer only able to craft items they have come across already by reverse engineering them to understand how they work. That way you can still get use out of the ability without being able to craft whatever you want, which would take the novelty out of newfound items.
Brilliant idea, I love it!
Checking in! I haven't decided for certain what I'd like to play, but I was considering a rogue. I checked out the archetypes in the Tech Guide, and I may just have to create a Numerian Scavenger... because 8TH LEVEL ROBOT SLAYER.
Awesome! Looks good. The only thing I see is that we're only using campaign traits. You just get that one trait instead of two like normal. I like campaign traits for APs but I'm honestly not a fan of the trait system in general.
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Ah, too bad, I really wanted disable device as a class skill without having to purchase yet another skill focus.
EDIT: I can actually do that with the "Local Ties" campaign trait. I initially wanted to take "Skymetal Smith" because it fits the character better (and wanted the "bauble" to be my arcane bond), but I'll take the former.
By the way, I wanted to ask a few questions:
1) How much starting gold do we get?
2) Is it possible to purchase a masterwork ring or amulet to be my arcane bond, then upgrade it later to a magical item? If so, how much would a masterwork piece of jewelry cost?
3) Is that alright to pick Androffan as bonus language with my first rank in Linguistics?
0.5) I forgot to say: Creation subschool! Cool! Don't think I've ever seen that in action before but then again it's one of those things that doesn't work as well in PFS and is more suited to a homegame.
1) Starting Gold is max for your class.
2) Yes, but I don't think you have to purchase it. Just like an arcane bond weapon is granted for free at 1st level, I would think a mwk ring is free if that's your bond.
3) I'm going to rule that you can't take Androffan until you've "experienced" it a bit more, maybe around level 3 or so. It will make the first couple levels a bit more interesting than instantly being able to translate every new thing you come across.
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Glad you like the Creation subschool, I think it was the perfect fit for this character.
Alright, so 120gp + free mwk ring it is, then!
No worries about Androffan, I pretty much would like to put lots of ranks into Linguistics if I can afford it, so I'll definitely pick it up when you allow it. I actually made the same reasoning about the Technologist feat and chose to pick it up at 3rd level, once my character had a chance of experiencing technology a bit.
Hi, EF invited me to join you.
It kind of looks like you needs somebody in the divine department from the e-mails thus far. I was considering a Dwarven Forgemaster, but I'm open to input/suggestions.
Man, dem' home rules, whew...
EF, you might want to double check the tinker gnome. Think the stats are a bit off.
Man, dem' home rules, whew...
Lol, was that a good whew or bad whew? I'm fixing the HP/fatigue/exhaustion thing in case you missed it above. I've been working on a lot of the other ideas in my head, if not on paper, for a while now. Just lots of little things I've been thinking about while running my other campaigns that's all getting purged out of my system in this campaign (for better or worse we shall see). Every change had a motivated reason behind it but we'll see if it actually fixes my concern or just brings up 10 other annoyances.
Also, yes, that was a mistake on the gnome stats. Fixing now.
A neutral whew, maybe? One of my current home games incorporates a lot of weird rules; at least your stating them up front as opposed to making them up on the fly :).
So I'm working under the assumption that all variant spell point rules are in effect.
Making them up on the fly? That would drive me nuts as a player. That's why I decided against changing anything in RotR part-way through Book 1.
And most of the changes (skill abilities, subrace abilities) are fairly minor and you really only need to worry about them at the levels you gain them. I thought the spell-point casting system would be the biggest contention but no one has complained yet. Lithrac even chose to play a caster, after all, so it must not to be too bad.
And yeah, the HP fatigue/exhaustion thing may be a trial-and-error rule that gets modified if it doesn't work. I'm already going to change it so that it goes away after you are healed back above 1/2 and 1/4, respectively. I just wanted some way to represent that you shouldn't be hitting as hard at 1 HP as you did at full HP.
So what happens to constructs/undead when they fall to half/one-quarter hp?
So what happens to constructs/undead when they fall to half/one-quarter hp?
I was thinking about the same problem the other day. I'm also not sold on the idea of just making fatigue/exhaustion go away when you are healed, as those conditions usually require rest to get rid of and I don't like making exceptions to the rules because then things get messy.
I think the best solution (and what I'll probably do) is make new conditions (maybe get rid of the critical hit rule and use "Wounded" and "Seriously Wounded") that essentially give the same negatives of fatigue/exhaustion except they can be applied to any creature and disappear once you are healed above the appropriate threshold.
It would also have the added benefit to be not too detrimental to ragers in general.
Ok, everyone! I'm about to head off to GenCon and might not be around until Sunday night or Monday. I know some of you will be busy at the Con as well. Hopefully the week after the Con everyone can get their characters (mostly) figured out and we can start moving!
So are we doing spell points based on spellcasting stat or based on constitution?
Since I'm looking at stuff:
"Expert Miner: At sixth level, delver dwarves gain the benefits of Furious Focus when using any type of two-handed pick or hammer."
Maybe you also meant to add: "or a one-handed pick or hammer with two hands"
List of actual two-handed hammers and picks is pretty limited:
Two-handed hammers:
earth breaker
greatclub
tetsubo
Two-handed picks:
none
Male Dwarf cleric 1 Archetypes Forgemaster,
LG Medium humanoid (delver dwarf)
Init +0, Senses darkvision (60 ft.); Perception +3
Aura aura of good, aura of law,
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DEFENSE
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AC 17, touch 10, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +2 shield, )
hp 11 ((1d8)+3)
Fort +5, Ref +0, Will +5, +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
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OFFENSE
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee heavy pick +2 (1d6+3/x4)
Ranged light crossbow +0 (1d8/19-20)
Melee warhammer +2 (1d8+3/x3)
Melee gauntlet +2 (1d3+3)
Special Attacks Artificer's Touch (6/day)
Cleric (CL 1st; spell-points 3, concentration +4 (+4 to cast defensively))
1st-animate rope, bless, magic weapon(DC 14)
0th-detect magic, guidance, stabilize
*:Domain spell.
Deity Torag; Domains Artifice
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TACTICS
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STATISTICS
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Str 15, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 6
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 13 (+4 vs bullrush or trip)
Feats Extend Spell
Skills Craft (Weapons) +6, Heal +9, Knowledge (Engineering, technologist trained) +7, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Sense Motive +7, Spellcraft +6
Traits Local Ties
Languages Common, Dwarven, Hallit
SQ artificer, aura, aura of good, aura of law, craftsman, darkvision, divine smith, forgemaster's blessing, hardy, hatred, humanoid traits, orisons, runeforger (5/day), spontaneous casting, stability, steady, steel spells, stonecunning, weapon and armor proficiency, weapon familiarity,
Combat Gear scroll (remove fear)
Other Gear Healer's Kit (10 charges), rations (trail/per day) (15), candle (30), torch (30), heavy pick, scale mail, cleric's vestments, shield, heavy wooden, pouch (belt), pouch (belt), pouch (belt), healer's kit, crossbow bolts (10), backpack, backpack, backpack, bedroll (3), waterskin, waterskin, waterskin, pot (iron), pot (iron), pot (iron), holy text (cheap) (3), flint and steel (3), mess kit (3), rope (hemp/50 ft) (3), soap (per lb) (3), spell component pouch, spell component pouch, spell component pouch, holy symbol (wooden), holy symbol (wooden), light crossbow, warhammer, gauntlet, 4.0 gp
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Artificer A forgemaster gains only one domain, which must be the Artifice domain (not including subdomains). If she worships a deity, it must grant the Artifice domain.
Artificer's Touch (Sp) You can cast Mending at will to repair damaged objects.
Aura (Ex) A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see the detect evil spell for details).
Aura of Good (Ex) You project a faint good aura.
Aura of Law (Ex) You project a faint lawful aura.
Craftsman (Ex) Dwarves are known for their superior craftsmanship when it comes to metal and stone works. Dwarves with this racial trait receive a +2 racial bonus on all Craft or Profession checks that create objects from metal or stone.
Darkvision (Ex) Range 60 ft.; Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black and white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise-invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.
Deep Warrior (Ex) Dwarves with this racial trait grew up facing the abominations that live deep beneath the surface. They receive a +2 dodge bonus to AC against monsters of the aberration type and a +2 racial bonus to their CMB on attempts made to grapple such creatures (or to continue a grapple).
Divine Smith (Su) Whenever a forgemaster casts a spell that targets a weapon, shield, or armor, the spell takes effect at +1 caster level. If the spell has one or more metamagic feats applied, she reduces the total level adjustment to the spell by 1 (minimum 0).
Domains
Forgemaster's Blessing The inscribed nonmagical item functions as a masterwork item.
Hardy (Ex) Dwarves receive a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison, spells, and spell-like abilities.
Hatred (Ex) Dwarves receive a +1 bonus on attack rolls against humanoid creatures of the orc and goblinoid subtypes due to special training against these hated foes.
Humanoid Traits (Ex) Humanoids breathe, eat, and sleep.
Language Dwarves begin play speaking Common and Dwarven. Dwarves with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Terran, and Undercommon.
Orisons You can prepare a number of orisons, or 0-level spells. These spells are cast like any other spells, but they are not expended when used and may be used again.
Runeforger (Su) A forgemaster may inscribe mystical runes upon a suit of armor, shield, or weapon as full-round action, using this ability 3+Int times per day. These runes last 1 rounds, but inscribing the same rune twice on an item increases this duration to 1 minutes, three times to minutes, and four times to 1 hours. Erase affects runes as magical writing. Only one type of rune marked with an asterisk (*) may be placed on an item at any given time. This ability replaces channel energy.
Spontaneous Casting
Stability (Ex) Dwarves receive a +4 bonus to their Combat Maneuver Defense when resisting a bull rush or trip attempt while standing on the ground.
Steady (Ex) Dwarves never have their speed reduced by armor or encumbrance.
Steel Spells A forgemaster adds the following spells to her spell list: 1st-crafter's curse, crafter's fortune, lead blades; 2nd-chill metal, heat metal, shatter; 3rd-keen edge, versatile weapon; 8th-iron body, repel metal or stone.
Stonecunning (Ex) Dwarves receive a +2 bonus on Perception skill checks to notice unusual stonework, such as traps and hidden doors located in stone walls or floors. They receive a check to notice such features whenever they pass within 10 feet of them, regardless of whether or not they are actively looking.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency Clerics are proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields). Clerics are also proficient with the favored weapon of their deity
Weapon Familiarity (Ex) Dwarves are proficient with battleaxes, heavy picks, and warhammers, and treat any weapon with the word "dwarven" in its name as a martial weapon.
Down in the Deep Knowledge (dungeoneering) is a class skill for Delver Dwarves. If it is already a class skill, they instead gain a free skill point every level that must be spent on Profession (miner).
Expert Miner At sixth level, delver dwarves gain the benefits of Furious Focus when using any type of
two-handed pick or hammer.
Sharp Eyes: At twelfth level delver dwarves’ darkvision applies to all types of darkness, including supernatural darkness created by a Deeper Darkness spell.
Explosives Training At eighteenth level, if the delver dwarf is an alchemist, they gain an additional two bombs per day. If the delver dwarf is not an alchemist, they gain the ability to create an alchemist’s bomb that deals 5d6 fire damage usable twice per day.
Local Ties You have ties to a prominent local in the town of Torch: the missing wizard, Khonnir Baine. He may have been your tutor, or a friend or business associate of your family. He may even have been your adoptive father, in which case you likely have a bond of friendship or rivalry with his adopted daughter Val. Your association with Khonnir has given you insight into how technology works. Choose Disable Device or Knowledge (engineering). You gain a +1 trait bonus on checks with this skill, and it is a class skill for you. In addition, you are treated as if you possessed the Technologist feat for the purposes of resolving checks associated with that skill. If you gain the Technologist feat, your trait bonus for the selected skill increases to +3.
Yes, bonus spell points are based on Con.
And yes, bat is what I meant for the miner dwarf ability. I'll change it when GenCon festivities are over.
No worries and no rush. I'm just a little pedantic when I'm not being oblivious or absent minded.
Hope you are enjoying the festivities!
Oh, I can be pedantic too. But I also threw that document together in about one night and honestly haven't gone back to edit it yet.
Ok everyone! I'm back from GenCon. Mrs Endless and I got to hang out with Tek a little bit, which was awesome. I'm sure it will take the two of them a few days to put their characters together and I plan on editing/fixing the homebrew document sometime this week (mostly fixing any typos or mistakes and changing the HP rules).
Once everyone is settled though we can get things started!
Man, it seems that someone should play a smasher barbarian of some sort. This AP calls out for it. :)
Still need to put it on paper, but still leaning toward tinker gnome, Spellscar drifter, taking some levels in techslinger later on (sort of after encountering said tech).
I'll try to get it all put together tonight/tomorrow.
Ok, Homebrew Document has been updated.
Also, Tangaroa asked about bonus spell points earlier so I'll reiterate that we are using the variant rule that your bonus spell points come from Constitution, not your normal casting stat.
As a further variant of this system, all spellcasters gain bonus spell points based on their Constitution scores rather than the ability score that normally grants bonus spells. This variant reflects the idea that spellcasting power is tied to the caster’s physical health. It also essentially requires spellcasters to have two high ability scores, though most spellcasters are happy to have a high Constitution score anyway.
Also, yes, we are still using the Vitalizing Rules for spellcasters:
When a spellcaster’s spell point pool falls to half of his maximum or less, he becomes fatigued.
When his spell points drop to one-quarter of his maximum or less, he becomes exhausted.
However, you can gain a few spell points back while you are resting to get rid of that exhaustion so it shouldn't be too bad:
If an exhausted character rests for 1 hour, he becomes fatigued—and his spell point total rises to one-third of his normal maximum (round fractions down). A second hour of rest increases the spellcaster’s spell point total to two-thirds of his maximum. It takes another 6 hours of rest to replenish the last one-third of his spell points and shake the physical effects of the spellcasting. Spells that remove fatigue and exhaustion (such as heal and restoration) leave the recipient with a spell point total equal to two-thirds of his normal maximum.
As in the standard rules, a spellcaster must rest for a full 8 hours before preparing a fresh allotment of spells for the day. Even if an exhausted spellcaster regains his lost energy and spell points, he can’t change the spells he has prepared without 8 hours of rest.
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Ok, if you have any other questions let me know. Becca is working on her character a bit today so we should be able to start soon enough.
Okie doke. Ready to go here. I changed things up a bit after noticing that our front-line was a *bit* sparse lol. I'll be playing Libri the Resolute, a female android magus. This will be my first magus, and although I love the homebrew subraces, I can't pass up the perfect opportunity to play an android. Should be fun! Also, Libri is probably Torch's least-loved librarian. SHHHH! http://paizo.com/people/LibriTheResolute
Tektite here.
Quikc question. Since my gunslinger has Gunsmiting, (and Craft alchemy), can he purchase bullets at the reduced rate?
Yep!
Ahem, could we recruit a fifth, or are we dead set on keeping it at 4? I only ask because the net charisma sum of this part is rather... well, low.
Or, maybe the crazy gun-wielding gnome can be our face. (I'm thinking he might be a bit like Walter Sobchak from the Big Lebowski, but smaller)
We could but I was hoping to keep it at 4 since APs are designed for four and I'm already giving you lots of bonuses with the free feats and subraces, etc. Also it would delay starting for a while since all the others I had on my short list either went to Tek's game or weren't interested for various reasons.
Eh, we can work around it. I can change Taran to cover diplo. Tek, make sure to grab survival :)
Additional traits feat is ok, right?