In considering the defensive casting question I think it's worth looking at the reason it exists in the first place.
Thematically I think the basic idea is that casting takes a lot of focus and therefore doing so in combat is intrinsically dangerous. When you start waving your hands around and chanting the guy with the big sword in front of you is probably going to try and take your head off. Mechanically having casting provoke an AOO forces casters to consider their positioning, gives melee types a way to counteract magic and limits casters melee abilities.
So with that in mind what's a caster to do? You don't want casters to have no ability to deal with having threats around them so they have two options, cast anyway or cast defensively. In the first case you're gambling that your attacker(s) miss or that you can out concentration the damage (10+damage+spell level). In the second case there's no chance of being hit but for that safety you're taking on a potentially higher concentration check (15+2xspell level).
With the modification there would be three options, cast anyway, cast defensively w/spell loss, cast defensively w/AOO. No one would ever "cast anyway" since there's no benefit to it vs CD w/AOO so we're back to two choices, CD w/spell loss or CD w/AOO. CD w/spell loss is the same risk/reward as before so let's look at CD w/AOO. You make a concentration check, if you succeed no AOO and your spell goes off (hurray). If you fail then your oppenents get the chance to make an AOO on you. If they miss back to free spell casting. If they hit then you need to concentration check again to try and beat the damage. If you do then you got hit but your spell goes off. Essentially you're getting three dice rolls to get the spell off (and one of those avoids the damage too). My thought would be that this would make casting defensively an "always on" option that would significantly increase casters ability to wade in and fling spells. I think casting defensively is supposed to carry a significant risk with it to keep it from being common place.
In the end I'm fine however you'd like to run it. It's certainly not a game breaker but my 2 cents is it works ok as written.
On the topic of critical fumbles, I've never played with them so don't have any real world experience and my theoretical opinion has changed over time. I think anyone looking to institute them needs to consider why they want them. Some seem to want to "balance" crits, others want to add more randomness, some want narrative items, etc. Personally I like the 1's always miss, 20's always hit mechanic but I'm not a big fan of crits or fumbles as I've seen them implemented. If I were to write it I might instead look at a fumble as a misstep or over extension that perhaps gave a -2 to hit or perhaps AC for the next round. Crits on the other hand would allow you to overcome DR or resistances.
Anyway just some thoughts.
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Hm some good points. Maybe making the DC lower would better accomplish my goals. I think if it was a DC 12+2x spell level might achieve the same thing I am shooting for, which is essentially making casting in melee range a little easier.
The change would be for a first level spell instead of a DC17 it would be a DC14 so more often then not you would succed as opposed to with a DC17 more often then not you would fail. At 4th it would be a difference between a DC19 and a DC16. In these cases with your main stat being your casting stat you would essentially be able to almost take 10 to succeed (though you can't take 10 in these situtaions)
For the fumble I was going more for the randomness + extra narrative which is why I like the chance of you droping your weapon or potentially hitting yourself if you were really unlucky or in a better case, recovering from the stumble and still managing to attack. I think it would be great to roll a 1 to fumble, then roll a 20 to hit again then roll a 20 to crit. Essentially you aim for a certain shot trip up but manage to stab the guy in the liver by accident.
Though I do like the crit overcoming DR, but I think that bumping up the multiplier effectively achieves the same goal since most DR is in the 5-10 range and most weapons are in the d6-d8 range so that extra amount of damage would help surpassing DR.
Tired now, will give feedback in the morning.
Slightly off-topic: Belgian Red Devils beat yo ass! *swagstance activated*
Sticks out his tongue and gives the waffle maker a raspberry
One clarification on my dream world crit modification, crits would only overcome DR and the like. They wouldn't multiply damage anymore. I'd like the two book ends to show that you can always have a chance to succeed or fail rather than making major swings to things.
How does this new house rule affect the Magus Spell Combat(EX) ability?
At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
It's your game and if you want to change to these house rules I am cool with it, but maybe the fighting defensively change causes more issues then it helps.
Also I am not a big fan of Fumbles. Heroes are supposed to be...well, heroes and tell heroic stories. Critical hits are awesome and fun stories to have the bards sing about at the inn. Nobody wants to hear the ballad of Sir Baristan the One Armed, who heroically cut off his arm fighting the Goblins of Black Rock Gorge. Just my two cents.
One of the things I like about PFS is that there aren't house rules. I know the temptation to create house rules. I start thinking about things that don't make sense and try to come up with mechanics to smooth it out. But it's so hard to keep it simple and balanced, I generally find it easier to just trust in Paizo.
For example, one thing I've always had a hard time rationalizing is AoO's in general. I mean, I only have time to swing my sword at someone once in 6 seconds; but if someone walks past me, suddenly I can violate the laws of space-time and swing my sword twice in 6 seconds? If I've got my dagger out, and someone in a bar tries to slap me, they leave themselves open to a stabbing if they haven't trained in a monastery; but while Two-Handed Fighter is lifting his greatsword over his head preparing to chop it down on me, I don't see any opening around that exposed stomach-chest area that's begging for a stabbing? Really? If I'm casting a spell, and I concentrate really hard on it, I can avoid appearing vulnerable to the swordsman in front of me so that he won't try swinging at me in the middle of casting; but even if I'm fully armed, armored, and shielded, and he's busy fighting someone else, there's no way I could walk past him without leaving myself open to an attack? Unless I do a bunch of somersaults and flips, which somehow appears less vulnerable than watching him closely with my shield up as I edge by?
But if I were to say "no AoO's in my game", then I expect there's all kinds of ramifications I couldn't anticipate. Feats and abilities become obsolete. Some classes and spells might get nerfed to varying degrees. Some situations, I'd probably think there should be an AoO (grappling, someone crawling past), and I'd just be calling it on a case-by-case basis. Suddenly it gets very complicated.
One of the things I like about PFS is that there aren't house rules. I know the temptation to create house rules. I start thinking about things that don't make sense and try to come up with mechanics to smooth it out. But it's so hard to keep it simple and balanced, I generally find it easier to just trust in Paizo.
This.
I am a Pressganger for Warmachine, and sometimes people say "This rule doesn't make sense!". That's when I usually reply with "You want fluffy logic or a fairly balanced game?" :-)One thing I think would be extremely nice, and I have been using for years, is the crit deck. You basically trade in your extra damage for special effects. Very nice to roleplay, and stops the two-round combats a bit :-)
I use both the Critical Hit and Critical Fumble decks in my face-to-face gamining group. Our group has been actively gaming together for nearly 15 years, though, so we know what we like and don't like. The decks add flavor to the game that we unanimously appreciate.
Yeah, that's true.. The critical fumble is also really nice (from Paizo) since it's not "drop your sword" every frakking time.
We also said "Only the first melee/ranged attack" is prone to critical fumble, our dual-wielder higherlevel fighters really got the short end of the stick! :p
We also said "Only the first melee/ranged attack" is prone to critical fumble, our dual-wielder higherlevel fighters really got the short end of the stick! :p
That's a good idea, to reduce the extra chances for an expert fighter to look like a fool.
I thought I'd be okay with Crit decks, but some of those Fumble cards are pretty harsh. 'Your spell hits one of your teammates, and is a critical threat?' Ouch. The Hits are more flavorful, but they're not as powerful. 'You do 2 pts of dex damage to someone?' Whoop-de-do. I'd rather just do the extra damage and have them off the board.
That's the risk you're taking, of course. Some of them are nice (dazed for one round), others are less so.
I do think it brings lots of flavour and fun to the game though. Getting a crit against becomes less of "auwie, hp!!" and more of a "Damn, where? And what???"
Sorry, gang. I had a stomach bug over the weekend and had a bunch of events to attend for work on top of that. I will get caught up today.
Kinda busy at work, don't hold up the story for Kesten at any time however. He is usually talking to himself in his head anyway :)
Dak in the interest of time and so we don't know how effective our sharp eyed halfing is at finding potential rocks that might fall on our heads do you want to roll his Perception checks at the doors we come to? Runk will basically always follow the same process, check for traps and listen at the door before checking to see if it's locked. If he doesn't hear anything he'll proceed with opening and looking.
If you'd rather I do it I'm fine with it but thought I'd bring it up.
I am fine with that.
I wanted to give you all a heads up that I'm going to be away from the 19th until the 25th or so and won't be able to post anything during that time. I should be back online the 26th but possibly earlier. I don't know where we'll be when I disappear but feel free to GM-PC me if necessary.
Damn, that's a lot of games I play with you :p
Heh, ya a few of you poor souls had to read that a few times :)
Huzzah!
Just a heads up. Wife had an emergency c-section today. Everything ok so far will probably be away for a couple days.
Yikes! Glad to hear she's okay.
Take care of your family. We'll be here.
Praying for a swift recovery for you wife and new little joy. Take your time we will be here when you get back.
First chance to really get on and update. Looks like my wife can go home tomorrow, baby is still in NICU, probably through the week if not next week as well. So might not be able to post quite as many times daily, but will likely be able to start posting at least once a day again starting Mon
Best wishes for a speedy recovery the missus and the nibblet. Like I said, real life is more important. Do the needfuls first, and we'll be here.
I do appreciate the update, though. ;-)
Take your time DAK...you are needed at the NICU right now, we can and will wait. As a chaplain I have spent many hours in the NICU with families, that is where your focus is right now and that is where it should be. Praying for baby to grow and develop, and that your wife recovers quickly.
Alright, back at home today. Baby still at the hospital and while still in the "critical care" section things are looking better everyday. I should be back to some more regular posting (at least once a day or in some cases every other day) while we wait for the baby to come home from the hospital. In any case, thanks for the warm wishes and being so understanding of the situation!
That goes without saying Dak. Real life trumps the imaginary ones :)
What's the name of the little sprout?
His name is Drake.
Drake... I love it!
It's a name that makes me want to grab my D20, before I realise I wouldn't get enough exp from him ;)
WOW, we talked about naming our son Drake, but eventually settled on Zachary. He will be here in five weeks, unless he comes early...which is possible with my wife's age and that fact it is a third pregnancy.
Thanks! Ha small world we were considering the same name. Our first, we named Stryker so we were having a hard time living up to his name. We both liked Drake though and it seems very fitting now.
Strykers, as in Warmachine Cygnar's favourite caster? :)
Glad to hear things are moving along well Dak. Great name for the kiddo. :)
So did we check out the whole underground? And there were no other [obvious] exits?
Yep I believe so. There are two stairways blocked by rubble.
Barring any events that push us one way or another my thought would be to review the journal and pick out another supporter of the grand plot and eliminate them. The fewer prongs of their planned attack the better.
That or we could try and find their leader and take the head off the whole thing but I don't think we have too much info on her just yet.
If we want to do some more digging into the ruins we could also hire some people to start pulling rocks for us. Maybe have a way through one of the stairway in a day or two.
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What Runk said. I failed my will save, and he got all the good ideas out of my head.
Friends in am doing a funeral in the morning so it might be Thursday before I post again. Also my wife is do anytime in the next four weeks so if I disappear it's because we are welcoming the baby into the world.
It's baby-season :D
**writes song on the tunes of Winter Wonderland**
Dak did you put together a loot spreadsheet for us? If not I'll try and go over the thread in the next day or so and make one.
I put one together but I am pretty sure it doesn't have everything on it.
I will try and confirm tonight.
Letting the rogue take care of the loot, riiiiiiiight ;)
What could be more sensible than that? After all the rogue ends up with it all anyway :)
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The little one has a point.
*hands over loot*
Dak can you make the sheet editable? Also would the gold and silver dust be full market value?
You can edit now. Wasn't sure if you all sold that stuff already or not. The only things missing are from the quasit and mutated goblin. Meant to get this last night, but things are still a little hectic with the newborn.
No worries, I'll go through and update it. Most stuff did get sold I believe.
Going on holiday till Sunday.
Bot me if you need to (if I'm a player).
Roleplay without me if you want to (if I'm the dm).
:)
At least he brought pants :)