No worries! Let's just move this back to making characters. To answer your question Lord Foul II, I won't allow anything from 3.5. But I do appreciate your asking.
Also, and I apologize for not see this earlier, but Joshua Hirtz is right. arcane trickster, mystic theurge, eldritch knight, and any other class that essentially advances to classes at the same time. Sorry for the confusion. I'm not incredibly experienced with gestalt so a few of the rules slip past me. I know that I said they were fine earlier but I was, in fact, wrong. Hope I didn't cause anyone too much grief with that.
Well I think that does it for the questioning part of this post. As usual, let me know if I missed anything. Otherwise, great concepts guys, it's going to be hell for me to choose. I'd still like to see some completed backstories before long.
Ah, my bad. In that case, I'll switch a few things around for Norathior to make him a viable submission. First off, I'll just remove his wizard and Mystic Theurge classes, making him a full cleric/magus gestalt. His backstory will remain the same.
For his race, I'll use your option of creating your own race to make my own subtype of Aasimar, creating a Titan-Blooded Aasimar. This subtype will have ability modifiers of Strength and Wisdom, to represent the might and age of Titans. Their skill bonuses will go towards Knowledge(History) and Use Magic Device, while their spell-like ability will be Spear of Purity. These Aasimars will be even older than the norm, and will have far more experience than most. This means that they are careful in choosing which battles to fight, and which to retreat from. They use their considerable knowledge and memory to their advantage in any battle, calling up their divine might against their foes.
Physically, these Aasimars are slightly larger than the rest, and are naturally tougher and stronger. They are less beautiful than some of their brethren, and maintain a more rugged appearance.
@GM
You probably need a backstory for my character
But your view on the build? Summoner/AntiPaladin with eidolon caster and a huge/gargantuan glebrazu as companions?
Dragonflyer1243, Rosa is also a large flying Aasimar cleric [NG now],
Don't get me wrong I am in no way saying don't go the big flying Aasimar cleric root, in fact, If we both get picked we could be related, now that would be interesting :)
Two large flying Aasimar clerics stooped into a bar, hehe.
She's big because of good old permanency spell, and uses a greater hat of Disguise to look human size day to day, She is kind of made of living steal [well her skin any way] so comes in real heavy, right now she is coming in at some 810lb. [that may even be higher]
On the battle field she acts as a massive beacon, [She is a wee bit bight.] and combat healer, with her monk skills and luck giving her movement and combat ability's. She also has a very high diplomacy and a back story that links her into the fabric of the planes. She is a team player and likes to work with others for the greater good.
GM Her back story has been updated [I will be adding more no crunch is done to a point a can link things in] I am still going with the idea she came into being on another plane when I god died and has a remnant of that god within her, in the shape of the Gods tear Gem in her for head. Her Epic fame comes form this and her deeds. Again back story, I very much like the uniqueness of her and gestalt has allowed me to make a very interesting PC.
@Seth86: Under normal circumstances I would say that I think both classes are ridiculously overpowered, but under these circumstances I would be okay with that. Never been a big fan of summoners myself, but then I've never seen a high level one either.
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Back on the first page this was posted, but the answer was never given.
I'm interested. Probably as a caster/warrior of sorts.
Oh, and this prc looks like it'd be fun and provide a cool visual. Can I use it?
By the way, if we have craft feats, do we get discount on pre-game items?
While reading through the thread I looked into this and thought it would be really cool to combine this Ioun Angel prestige class with a monk somehow. So as I waited for your answer I deliberated and came up with With undone the Oread monk 18/wizard 8/ioun-angel 10. I see him as a very quiet character, not warming up to others very easily, but this gives him room to grow. I would end up spending basically my entire budget on Ioun stones so he can have like three flying around each hand and each leg and at least two around his chest enhancing his fiscal abilities and making him a rather powerful unarmed striker for close range combat combined with some rather explosive spells for a formidable distance attacker.
If you don't decide to allow for ioun-angel I would probably just keep him monk 18/wizard 18 or change it to a monk 18/druid 18 with a grey wolf companion.
Sorry I missed your question, I tried to get everything, but some things still slip by. Thanks for bringing it back up.
Sadly, I won't be allowing it. Maybe if I had some time to work things out alter the class a little bit, but there are you many new elements to this campaign already. For right now I am going to say no to Ioun Angle.
heu heu, a flying paladin and flying monk walk into a bar...
Rorek55
"A winged Aasimar fighter/Paladin a Aasimar winged Cleric/Monk and a winged cleric/magus walk in the the bar"
The bartender says "We don't serve poultry here!"
The Aasimar say "That's OK we just want a drink."
Ba-bum-Cush!
And the glebrazu walks away with the bar....
Question to GM
The eidolon magics, can the cures be changed to inflicts?
Basicly building an Erinyes :)
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No worries! Let's just move this back to making characters. To answer your question Lord Foul II, I won't allow anything from 3.5. But I do appreciate your asking.
Also, and I apologize for not see this earlier, but Joshua Hirtz is right. arcane trickster, mystic theurge, eldritch knight, and any other class that essentially advances to classes at the same time. Sorry for the confusion. I'm not incredibly experienced with gestalt so a few of the rules slip past me. I know that I said they were fine earlier but I was, in fact, wrong. Hope I didn't cause anyone too much grief with that.
Well I think that does it for the questioning part of this post. As usual, let me know if I missed anything. Otherwise, great concepts guys, it's going to be hell for me to choose. I'd still like to see some completed backstories before long.
thanks for answering, that's perfectly fine, I still have two of the seven concepts I started with left
For point of reference, the feat I was asking for was either one of two feats (Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine Monk) that allowed one to swap wisdom with intelegence for monk class features, without that or the ability to have a template to boost ability scores a magus/monk would be too MAD, IMHO, but that's fine I still have tow concepts leftI have a basic background for the Magus/Arcanus, but still working something out with the Druid/Spelless Ranger
Anyone got any ideas for a Druid background that I could expand upon?
No worries! Let's just move this back to making characters. To answer your question Lord Foul II, I won't allow anything from 3.5. But I do appreciate your asking.
Also, and I apologize for not see this earlier, but Joshua Hirtz is right. arcane trickster, mystic theurge, eldritch knight, and any other class that essentially advances to classes at the same time. Sorry for the confusion. I'm not incredibly experienced with gestalt so a few of the rules slip past me. I know that I said they were fine earlier but I was, in fact, wrong. Hope I didn't cause anyone too much grief with that.
Well I think that does it for the questioning part of this post. As usual, let me know if I missed anything. Otherwise, great concepts guys, it's going to be hell for me to choose. I'd still like to see some completed backstories before long.
The lack of Arcane Trickster is something of a bummer, since it has a bunch of unique abilities you can only get from that PrC. I think it might be workable so long as you specify that, yes, it DOES stunt your caster side.
No Wizard 20/Arcane Trickster 10/Rogue 10, only Wizard 10/Arcane Trickster 10/ Rogue (or whatever) 20.
I'm going to try to put pen to paper on my chef//arcanist//sorcerer soon. Also,
I have a basic background for the Magus/Arcanus, but still working something out with the Druid/Spelless Ranger
Anyone got any ideas for a Druid background that I could expand upon?
May be better for the ranger side, but I think it'd be fun to play a bombastic explorer type, like Sir Edmund Hilary. Through a desire to discover the world, the druid//ranger manifests their connection to nature. Pith helmet recommended, but not required.
Dragonflyer1243, Rosa is also a large flying Aasimar cleric [NG now],
Don't get me wrong I am in no way saying don't go the big flying Aasimar cleric root, in fact, If we both get picked we could be related, now that would be interesting :)Two large flying Aasimar clerics stooped into a bar, hehe.
She's big because of good old permanency spell, and uses a greater hat of Disguise to look human size day to day, She is kind of made of living steal [well her skin any way] so comes in real heavy, right now she is coming in at some 810lb. [that may even be higher]
On the battle field she acts as a massive beacon, [She is a wee bit bight.] and combat healer, with her monk skills and luck giving her movement and combat ability's. She also has a very high diplomacy and a back story that links her into the fabric of the planes. She is a team player and likes to work with others for the greater good.
GM Her back story has been updated [I will be adding more no crunch is done to a point a can link things in] I am still going with the idea she came into being on another plane when I god died and has a remnant of that god within her, in the shape of the Gods tear Gem in her for head. Her Epic fame comes form this and her deeds. Again back story, I very much like the uniqueness of her and gestalt has allowed me to make a very interesting PC.
It seems that Rosa is much more of an angelic Aasimar, and Norathior doesn't fly. He would probably be very large as well, and I'd probably have a permanent enlarge person on him if he had the money, but we'd still be fairly different characters. Perhaps Norathior and Rosa are accquainted, as both are fairly powerful mages of outsider background.
Good thing i bring in some black to all this white
I am nearly done the crunch. its the back story that I am struggling with.
trying to cut it back to an overview as the story reads like a novel. taking my character from level 1 or 2 up to 18.
@Seth86: That's fine.
@Rynjin: The only way I would allow an Arcane Trickster is if you don't take the "+1 level of existing class" that Arcane Trickster provides. I think that's what you just said, but remember that the starting level is 18.
@Miko: Yep, recruitment is still going.
so far my crunch: looks like my AC is expressed as 400 hp
My Goblin Alchemist/Gunslinger is more or less crunched out, and his alias is up; I'll post his background/fluff in a moment. I have to say, I've never made up a level 18 character before, let alone a gestalt version, so this was a rather enjoyable experience. There was a lot to making such a high level character that I hadn't anticipated from my experience with lower ones; I think my previous highest was a level 14, and that was with a low magic campaign, so I certainly didn't have 700k to dispose of.
Graah! is a dynamic damage dealer, plain and simple. He has a very high output, a very high AC, and is capable of moving around the battlefield very very quickly. Once I started crunching the numbers, I was pretty astounded just how much damage he may be capable of putting out. Even though he caries Alchemist through to level 18, he actually fights primarily with his guns, tossing out bombs only as a backup, when they are needed, or against baddies that can't be harmed by bullets (such as swarms). He uses double barreled pistols and reloads as a free action, two weapon fighting all the way (he has magic that allows him to keep a hand free for reloading). It turns out that Alchemists have a lot of tricks available to them for pumping up their Dex, and Graah!'s is positively stratospheric; and as a Pistolaro, he adds his Dex bonus to every bullet fired. In other words, damage output is covered.
so far my crunch: looks like my AC is expressed as 400 hp
lol. Meat shield.
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Remember...if any black joins in with all the white, in character actions have in character consequences. I don't wanna play a NG elven protector that just hand waves the antipaladin's method of solving problems. If I played an evil character, I'd be careful how I chose my spot.
Wivvy...if you feel we need a little grey in the mix, I'll offer Burba: CN druid/hunter ranger guy. He focuses on divine magic and wild shape. He's a front line fighter, and his favorite shapes are colossal snakes and Gargantuan dire apes.
I'd like a mechanism that allows Burba to assume magical beast shapes, since Burba is all about the fury of nature and survival of the strongest.
Alright, this isn't likely to be accepted, but how does a True Nutral Necromancer sound? One who, otherwise, is really, REALLY good, if it wasn't for her minor addiction to necromancy... And finding corpses kinda attractive.
Also, pre-game raising the undead, is that acceptable?
@Rynjin: The only way I would allow an Arcane Trickster is if you don't take the "+1 level of existing class" that Arcane Trickster provides. I think that's what you just said, but remember that the starting level is 18.
Not quite what I was saying, but I can deal with that. Wizard 18/Arcane Trickster 10/Whatever 8.
Alright, this isn't likely to be accepted, but how does a True Nutral Necromancer sound? One who, otherwise, is really, REALLY good, if it wasn't for her minor addiction to necromancy... And finding corpses kinda attractive.
Also, pre-game raising the undead, is that acceptable?
I'm not sure how many people would be feeling necrophilia in a game. But if you want another avenue of non-evil necromancy, this /tg/ thread seemed to have a concept right up that alley.
@Rynjin wouldn't your whatever kinda have to be rogue?
Vivisectionist Alchemist, Ninja, and Slayer also get enough Sneak Attack to work. I believe Strangler Brawler would just barely be able to manage it too.
Edit: Oh, and Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor.
It seems that Rosa is much more of an angelic Aasimar, and Norathior doesn't fly. He would probably be very large as well, and I'd probably have a permanent enlarge person on him if he had the money, but we'd still be fairly different characters. Perhaps Norathior and Rosa are accquainted, as both are fairly powerful mages of outsider background.
I think all three Aasimar will know each other if picked, at level 18 PCs with that much power will have meet others with the same areas of interests. Most of all if you spending time on the higher planes. Rosa is most definitely angelic Aasimar. She came into being on the higher planes over a typical family life growing up thing. She was raised by Angels, and spend most of her time there. However she has also spent time on the prime working with the pathfinders, but is retired now from their ranks. She also has a Demi plane home where her Adopted Daughter lives Lizzy.
Just having some fun...
Graah! is flying along on his magic carpet over a vast, empty wilderness when a Tarrasque appears 100 ft in front of him, ripping into being as though thrust there through some dimensional rift. Wherever it came from, it seemed to be just as surprised by the situation as Graah!.
Initiative;
Graah!'s familiar draws a wand from Graah's pouch and pilots the carpet in closer, flying to a range of 80 ft from the beast.
"A Tarrasque? How the hell did it get here?"
Graah! uses a swift action to use his boots of speed, activating his Haste effect. He quickdraws his double barrelled pistols and starts firing, unleashing both barrels from each. He takes careful aim, risking a few missed shots to make ever one that hits inflict maximum damage . As soon as the smoke flies he is already reloading, firing again, and again, and again!
The monster's torn and ripped body went still, the massive, building sized legs going stiff as the whole colossal creature's balance subtly shifted, then as the body began to pitch to one side, the slow fall gradually picked up speed until the beast hit the ground with the force of landslide. Dust and wind shot out from under the monster, blasting down trees on all sides and casting up a massive cloud of dust.
Looking down, Graah! sees the body and corpse of the beast is so thoroughly ripped to shreds that in its current state, scholars would likely require generations to identify the pieces.
Graah! wonders to himself what it might of wanted with him. Then, spotting subtle movement among the pieces, he sees the numerous wounds start to stitch together, healing.
"Oh, right. They don't die. Damn it." The diminutive gunslinger looked down at the thing from where he stood on his flying carpet. "The only way to get rid of these things is to find a way to put them to sleep, imprison them, or banish them to another dimens... Damn it! That's where it came from! And now it's suddenly supposed to be my problem? Damn it!"
He turned to his familiar, willing his desire across the bond to the creature for it to become visible.
He sent it his thoughts, "I'm probably going to have to send you to fetch some help. I'll have to stay here and keep this thing down until you can make it back. See if you can find someone that can banish it for us; or failing that, some sort of gate, and something to aid us in reducing this thing to small enough pieces to get it through said gate. At the rate its regenerating, a shot about every 30 seconds should keep it dead. Well, deadish... Maybe I can rig up something to dump a cauldron of acid on it every time it tries to move?"
In response, the tumorous creature only looked at him impassively, but didn't move.
"GO!"
The creature vanished, turning invisible again, but the sound of its flapping wings could be heard fading away.
Graah! looked back at the stirring Tarrasque. He reloaded his pistols, took aim, and shot it once more through the skull.
"And now it's my problem."
All right, think I've settled on a character. Monk (MoMS, among other archetypes)/Brawler. Didn't want to fiddle with making the Arcane Trickster thing work, and had some choice paralysis, so defaulted to what I know: Making really good punchers.
Rough backstory involves him stealing the secret techniques of the Hamatulatsu Masters (an all-female order of Monks who devote themselves to emulating the fighting style of Barbed Devils), and being pursued a great many years because of that fact. Eventually, he faked his own death to escape their notice, and laid low for a few years before resurfacing under a new name, upon which he properly began his adventuring career.
So, quick question before I finalize a build, how do you feel about utilizing the Retraining rules in the backstory (with all associated monetary cost, of course)?
There are a number of Qinggong abilities I would like to get, but due to the...odd way the Qinggong abiity chart is laid out (Abilities become available at 4/6/8/10/12/14/16/18/20...but the abilities you can trade them out FOR only come in at 4/5/7/11/12/13/15/17/17/19/20), it makes many impossible to properly acquire without Retraining. So I'd like to retrain some of my Qinggong choices at level 18 to get the ones I'd like.
In essence, this comes out to a cost of 900 gp per ability. I'd probably want to Retrain at least Wholeness of Body into Dragon's Breath or Restoration (Wholeness of Body appears at 7th, those at 8th) and Diamond Soul into Blood Crow Strike (appears at 13th and 14th).
On the shooting example, how did he use a pistol in each hand and still have a free hand with which to reload?
Didn't get to start last night, but I've been getting ideas. I feel like I'll mostly focus on abjuration and transmutations, possibly try to get a good balance between support and offense, such as making wall or pit traps and pushing foes through them. Feel like going down the Sage bloodline to consolidate arcanist and sorcerer spell DCs. Plus, I'd like to grab a Robe of Arcane Heritage so I can make use of Arcane Apothesis and its ability to efficiently use charges.
Any one feel free to look over my PC and point out mistakes,
Other than spelling hehe.
Just having some fun...
** spoiler omitted **...
the first thing is the pistols each take -4 to hit when using both barrels. I don't think you can reload that many time in a round. (+ the -2 for TWF for a total of -6) also explain the +7 weapon? we are level 18 so does epic begin early or something?
each barrel reload is a separate action.
Also since I am not an optimizer mathematician, and cannot make a character that can solo everything I will probably be bailing on this game. I guess I prefer games were I actually earned my levels and grew as a character as I advanced and build fun memories along the way.
If you can, at level 18, take out a CR 25 creature in the first init order... there is no need for others to be with you. perhaps the GM can pick only you and the rest of us watch.
Sazzat Tamm is a gestalt Rogue (18) / Ranger (8) - Horizon Walker (10)
The crunch is mostly done, just some fine tuning on skills and magic items to complete.
He’s a combatant (melee or ranged) and utility character.
Born on the plane of fire in the City of Brass, he has spent the last century working for an interplanar arms-dealing organization known as the Brazen Claw Consortium. Having been promoted within the last decade to an independent Factor within the Consortium, he has traveled to Golarion seeking opportunities for profit.
He’s lawful neutral and believes in all parties getting what they agreed to in dealings (maybe not always what they expected, but certainly no less than was agreed upon).
Tamm stands 5’11 and weighs 175lbs. In his true form he would be distinctive upon Golarion with his red skin, the curving ram’s horns emerging from his temples, and the red tail snaking out from beneath his coat. His black hair is kept short, but he has taken to wearing a neat goatee in a style that he copied from a Efreet noble. Anticipating the provincial attitudes he would encounter upon Golarion he uses his greater hat of disguise to conceal his true nature and appear as a human of the same size and weight.
Quite often his features are obscured by a cloud of pungent cigar smoke.
He dresses in a fine black shirt of spider weaved silk and durable leather pants that mostly conceal the coat of flexible mithril mail he wears beneath. Mithril studded black boots protect his feet. His long leather coat, split up the back to make riding easier, is bespelled with runes of protection. A pair of curved knives hang from his belt, but the quiver of arrows on his back suggest that he must carry a bow somewhere on his person. A curious set of goggles or glasses, appearing to be a pair of jeweler’s lenses, hang on a strap about his neck.
“You know how kids always think that their mom is the devil? Well mine literally is the devil … No really, she’s the hot one with the wings over there flirting with that Efreet.”
- Sazzat Tamm, during a reception at the Brazen Citadel
Sazzat Tamm was born of the union of a mortal sorcerer and an erinyes named Sazzat Epheera that took place 114 years ago in the City of Brass, on the Plane of Fire. His mother is a long standing Principal of the Brazen Claw Consortium, an inter-planar arms dealing organization headquartered in the City of Brass that profits from conflict across the planes. His father’s fate is unknown to him and has never been spoken of by his mother or any of her associates.
Upon reaching puberty, the sorcerous spark that Sazzat Epheera had hoped kindle in an offspring was obviously not present in her child and she abandoned him to his own devices and moved on to other schemes. As a half-breed child upon a harsh plane, Tamm’s opportunities were limited and so he took work in the Brazen Claws workshops and foundries learning the arts of an armorer and weapon crafter under the tutelage of the salamander Forge Master Adandravadhrs.
The City of Brass is a place of opportunity and excitement for the daring and the young tiefling learned much of stealth and combat while exploring the city with his comrades from the Brazen Claw.
“Have you ever tried fitting a set of plate armor onto a phase spider matriarch? Those critters are ticklish in the weirdest places.”
- Sazzat Tamm, recounting his year spent in a spider nest on the ethereal plane
Around the thirtieth year of his life, after more than a decade spent learning his trade in the workshops of the Brazen Citadel, Tamm began participating in field expeditions selling arms and armor for the Brazen Claw. Over the course of thirty years he spent time in a number of bizarre planar locations.
Tamm spent over a year in an ancient astral fortress of fiendish mercenary company repairing arms and armor. In his spare time he would gave out through great windows sealed with permanent walls of force at the schools of astral sharks slowly circling the fortress.
The Brazen Claw supplied both sides of a conflict between djinn nobles on the Plane of Air for several years. During this time Tamm labored in a workshop upon a floating island, crafting magical arrows to fill the quivers of the djinn archers.
During this time, the magical abilities that his mother had hoped for surfaced, but in unexpected ways. He found he could learn magical tricks from the native inhabitants of the places he dwelt for extended periods. He could step through the short cuts in the astral to travel from one place to another, train with djinn until he could fly by force of will, and push himself through the ether to ghost through solid walls like the phase spiders and xill of the ethereal plane.
He worked in remote locations as a contractor, helped guide caravans upon dangerous journeys to deliver arms, and slowly assumed positions of greater responsibility until he seized an opportunity for advancement.
“We were outfitting a tribe of fiendish minotaurs in the Impossible Labyrinth when it all went wrong. The insufferable t%$~ who was leading the expedition must have insulted them, because he took a vorpal axe to the neck from the minotaur king. Boy did he have a surprised expression on his dead face after being chopped with an axe he had just delivered to the customer! Anyway, I blinked past the two bulls that came for me, grabbed the bag of holding that had the Claw’s payment in it, and made it to our priest in time to save him from being cut down. I short-hopped the priest and everyone else that I could reach to a place of safety. Then the priest ‘shifted us back to the Citadel before the minos could track us down.”
- Sazzat Tamm, describing the circumstances of his promotion to Factor within the Brazen Claw
For his quick thinking is saving the Brazen Claw’s payment during the Impossible Labyrinth debacle, Tamm was promoted by Emir Beha Ladanama (the Senior Principal of the Claw) to the rank Factor and given responsibility for his own missions and finally earned the respect of his fiendish mother.
A greater share of the profits, access to the Claw’s forges and armories, and the great bazaars and souks of the City of Brass allowed him to equip himself lavishly and pay the Claw’s spellcaster to help him craft a private workshop/forge upon a demiplane of his own.
“Of course we have what you need Jarl Ulfljof, we fully support your desire to see your giants bearing the finest arms … and arming the finest bears for that matter.”
- Sazzat Tamm, concluding a negotiation with a frost giant Jarl in the land of the Linnorm Kings
Tamm has visited Golarion once before on a mission to trade arms to an army of giants in exchange for ivory and precious metals. While the deal was being transacted he had the opportunity to visit with one of the giant’s shamans who had traveled and knew much of the world. He was intrigued by what he heard of ancient artifacts tied to Thassilon and Azlant and of the perpetual war being conducted at the Worldwound. He was convinced that there was opportunity for the Claw to be found upon Golarion.
Now that he has the freedom to pursue his own devices, he has returned to Golarion to explore and search for the opportunity that will advance him from Factor to Principal within the Brazen Claw.
Just having some fun...
** spoiler omitted **...
the first thing is the pistols each take -4 to hit when using both barrels. I don't think you can reload that many time in a round. (+ the -2 for TWF for a total of -6) also explain the +7 weapon? we are level 18 so does epic begin early or something?
each barrel reload is a separate action.
Also since I am not an optimizer mathematician, and cannot make a character that can solo everything I will probably be bailing on this game. I guess I prefer games were I actually earned my levels and grew as a character as I advanced and build fun memories along the way.
If you can, at level 18, take out a CR 25 creature in the first init order... there is no need for others to be with you. perhaps the GM can pick only you and the rest of us watch.
It's actually not super challenging to build a character that powerful at these levels. Plus, his ability to mulch a single creature doesn't make him a solo party. You can't balance a game around single creatures because they are simply NO challenge for a group of PCs anywhere near their weight category.
That said, he actually only has about HALF of those attacks. Double Barreled Pistols give an extra shot PER ACTION, not per shot. So he'd get one extra attack once per full attack from the DBP.
That's not counting the fact that he has provided himself no way to reload those pistols. He doesn't have Vestigial Arm or Tentacle, and his Monkey Goblin tail doesn't allow that, plus Weapon Cords were nerfed hard, so cut the attacks in half again.
Response time:
Dr. Buzzard First. I was about to start feeling very happy and satisfied about my very cool and elegant solution to this very basic problem, when of course I discovered my first oversight with my character's construction, probably the first of many, unfortunately. As I said a while back, this is the first time I have ever put a hard effort into putting together a completely polished 18th level character, and this one is a gestalt character to boot.
The solution I had put in place worked perfectly well during an intermediate version of the character, back when he had four arms, via two uses of the Vestigial Limb discovery. He had a Glove of Storing on one hand and used a Pistol of the Infinite sky in that hand (which never needs to be reloaded). The glove could make that pistol disapear as a free action, leaving an empty hand available to reload the other guns, which with a combination of Rapid Reload and Alchemical Cartridges could be done as a Free action, which are not limited in number per round. After finishing reloading, he could summon the stored weapon back to his hand again as another free action, and have all four guns loaded and ready to go again for the next round of Iterative action. Of course, after reading a little further, I discovered that I was not going to be allowed to actually fire four guns simultaneously, and nixed the extra limbs (darn game designers and their strange dislike of game breaking mechanics...). I kept the glove of storing, kept two double barreled pistols, and my brain omitted the other extraneous details. Stupid brain. So, in its present setup, you are right, it wouldn't work.
Solution 1: There is a very easy solution though; when I dropped the extra limbs, I only reassigned one of the discoveries - if I put the free one back into Vestigial Limb, voila, he has a fulltime free hand for loading. I think I'd have to do some shuffling though, as I'd want him to have the full four, for the summitry .
Solution 2: Another potential alternative would be to ask the GM if he would allow Weapon Cords to be used with Quickdraw. There is no specific ruling on the matter that I'm aware of, but when initially introduced, weapon cords allowed you to drop the weapon (free action) and then grab it as a Swift action (later changed to a Move action, likely to avoid abuse). Drawing a weapon requires a move, grabbing a weapon off your cord is a move, is drawing a weapon off your cord drawing it? Does Quickdraw apply? No official ruling, GM's call.
Solution 3: Rearrange some feats to get the Gunspinning Deed feat. It allows you to holster a weapon as a free action. Once holstered, Quickdraw definitely applies to draw it again as a free action. This is the most expensive option, most likely, since it would require both Weapon Focus, and Dazzling Display, which is not particularly useful to a character with such an amazing charisma.
Solution 4: Switch his guns to Pistols of the Infinite Sky. Same price range as his present guns, but not quite as tailored to his niche. No more double barreled shooting, but then, they never need to be reloaded. Not quite as fun, or as stylish, and he'd lose out on his Ranged and Keen enhancements, but still comparably effective.
Edward Sobel:
Yes they do. They are also required to fire at the same target. However, since he is firing at Touch AC, and a AC 7 in this case (more on that later) it was worth the risk. Graah! is a Dex character, and has to hit bonus to spare in this situation, so he felt comfortable letting loose, and taking every possible penalty, because even with those in place, so long as he was in Touch AC range, he could only miss on a natural 1. Actually, your question made me notice a second error of mine; Pistols are not typically considered "Light"weapons (though debate rages on the forums), and therefore, the penalty for dual wielding should probably be -4. He was also using Deadly aim which adds another -5 penalty to the mix, so he was not shooting at his best. The range increment for his guns is 40 ft (20 ft is standard, but they have the Distance enhancement), and his Deadshot vest (or equivalent - it's built into a combination chest slot item [for +50% of regular cost as per the rules] allows him to extend his Touch AC targeting for primitive guns out to 2 increments, which is why he closed to 80 ft (which is why he rides on a carpet driven by his improved familiar instead of flying under his own power). Being out at 80 ft gave him an additional -2 on his attack rolls. All together that's -4 for double barrel firing, -4 for duel wielding (incorrectly entered as -2 in the example, but it would still not affect the outcome), -5 for Deadly Aim, and -2 for Range, for a total of -15 vs. his total bonus of +42. Even against his lowest iterative attack, in this case, only a natural 1 would miss, and surprisingly he didn't roll any.
It is. In this case, each is a separate free action. In the equivalent entries on crossbows, when reloading reaches a free action, they state that they may then be fired as often as you could when firing a bow. Free actions are not technically limited, and are said to require virtually no time at all. One imagines an action that is so fast and instinctual that it can be performed without thought. Of course, the GM is always free to impose practical and plausible restrictions on the numbers of free actions performed in a round, and I am by no means defending the amount of reloading going on here by as by any means realistic. Hell, reloading a muzzle loader in a 6 second round at all stretches credulity pretty far, let alone the idea of doing it 16 times, in between aiming and shooting... Of course it is also being done by a guy with magically augmented reflexes that perform faster than a chemical impulse should technically be able to traverse a given space along a nerve ending, done while he talks to his extra dimensional invisible tumour familiar, while sitting upon his flying carpet, so, who knows... If the GM decides to squash his nigh-impossible reloading ability, I will adapt. Such is the nature of things.
Sorry for the confusion there; one of the other players here PM'd me the same question. All I meant by that was that Graah!'s weapons enhancement bonuses, plus their Weapon Special Abilities added together total an enhancement bonus of +7. They are technically +5 Ranged Keen Pistols, not +7 Pistols. Magic Weapons are permitted a max raw enhancement bonus of +5, and Graah!'s are no different. They are however allowed to have a combined enhancement and ability total of up to +10. At +7, Graah!'s are well under the max. I totaled them together only as I thought they pertained to DR/Epic, which I may admittedly be confused about, as I have never played an Epic level campaign.
DR/Epic
A type of damage reduction, DR/epic can be overcome only by a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater. Weapons with special abilities also count as epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction if the total bonus value of all of their abilities (including the enhancement bonus) is +6 or greater.
I looked up the rules to DR/Epic, as I was unfamiliar with them, and the way I interpreted them was that Graah!'s +5 weapons with 2 +1 features (so a total of +7) would be sufficient to overcome this kind of DR. That is the way it looks on the surface, and since I have never seen a weapon with a raw enhancement bonus of greater that +5, I made the assumption that it was the correct interpretation. As I said, I've never played Epic. If they do +6+ raw enhancements... well, cool, good for them. The DR wouldn't have bothered Graah! anyway. Clustered shots.
The point of the little blurb above was not to discourage anyone, it was just to have a little fun, and to stimulate folk into poking holes in my build, if there were things I had overlooked. Ya, you read that right, I wanted people to pick it apart, and nobody seemed to be commented on each other's characters so far. I haven't made a character at this level before, so I'm pretty sure I made mistakes. I found about 4 so far, and there are probably more. Some are easy fixes, others are going to be more challenging. That's cool. Part of the challenge of the game. The title of this game is "HIGH POWERED,HIGH LEVEL, GESTALT, BATTLE HEAVY, DO-WHATEVER-THE-HECK-YOU-WANT CAMPAIGN." I took it to heart, and tried to to something I have wanted to do for a long time, and make my dream Gunslinger Goblin!
Since when did being able to kill one big bad make you a solo party? Yes, this happens to be a very big bad, but, even if his mechanics do manage to stand up to criticism (we'll see), this is pretty much the ideal kind of bad guy for this character to defeat. Big, dumb, and impossible to miss. The GM is never going to challenge this kind of character with this kind of opposition; it's like only throwing low level zombies at the Undead-Slayer Undead-Bane Holy Weapon Wielding Paladin. Of course he's going to curb stomp them. GM's don't throw Colossal solo beasts at gunslingers, they throw high Dex invisible flyers, swarms, and mind control monsters. The point of the example was not to say that, "You can all go home now." It was first to invite mechanical critiques, and second to present an option for a strong range based damage dealer for our eventual party. But he would need a party to go with. He would not be able to handle a great many challenges on his own. I'm here to have fun, just like everyone else, and I designed Graah! with that in mind. He's not supposed to steal anyone else's fun, or rain on any parades!
In any party, how well does the damage dealer do all by himself? Graah! is not a face, a diplomat, a trap expert, a knowledge guru, wilderness guide, an arcane force, a healer or half a dozen other things a near epic level party is going to need. Starting at level 18 is different than starting at level 1, but it does have some interesting challenges.
Rynjin: I totally agree.
Could you point me to your source on that? Usually when I make gunslingers, I talk the GM into letting me use Revolvers, so I've never used the Double Barreled Pistols before. There is nothing in their description that would indicate that they couldn't be reloaded and double fired again...
You are right about this, but it's addressed above, and easily fixed. Graah! is actually a regular Goblin, the Monkey Goblin version of the character was an old version that I kept under a spoiler in case I decided to use him again (it's a recycled alias). Every once and a while a few details of the old character accidently got mixed into the new character on the profile, just due to doing so many edits. I'll go though again and try to make sure it's clean of them.
Basically what you've explained is that everyone else can play a support character while you take care of damage.
Splendid.
I'm closing in on being able to post my character.
@Little G:
On the pistols, it's in the description.
"This pistol has two parallel barrels; each barrel can be fired independently as a separate action, or both can be shot at once with the same action.
If both barrels are shot at once, they must both target the same creature or object, and the pistol becomes wildly inaccurate, imparting a –4 penalty on each shot."
If you're making a full attack, all of those attacks are part of your Full Attack Action (which is a specific Full Round Action).
The Attack Action and Full Attack Action are two different action types. It's the reason you can't use Vital Strike on a full attack.
Which drops your damage, by a rough estimate, to around 300-500 a round.
Good, but not one-rounding the Tarrasque good.
Basically what you've explained is that everyone else can play a support character while you take care of damage.
Splendid.
That appears to be what you took from it. What I intended to impart was that, in the spirit of the Thread's title, I tried to come up with the wildest, craziest, off the wall high-power character I could think of, and at the same time, I was having a lot of fun with the technical challenge of trying to get all the necessary bits and cogs to fit, which I am still waiting to see if I have successfully done, and/or which bits don't actually work as intended, and need to go back to the drawing board, or get scrapped altogether.
The Tarrasque example was intended as a light hearted tweak of the nose to get folk interested in providing the necessary feedback, as surely such a character shouldn't be able to function like that, should it?
The character was presented in a spirit of fun, and I hope it is received that way; the way a group of nerds might puzzle over a particularly interesting math puzzle, that's it. If I get to play him, great! I think a group could have a lot of fun with him along. If there is no place for him, or the GM thinks that, while legal, he should be relegated to the realms of theoretical curiosities, like a mild Pun Pun, I hope he'll give me the time to come up with another submission.
Not that 300-500 per round is peanuts. To be fair, that's probably where rocket tagging comes into play. This is supposed to be high powered for fun, but what really poses a threat at that point? Just something to think about, not trying to judge.
Oh, I see what you're saying! That every time the book says 'action,' that it means " Action!" When you put it in that light, I suppose that interpretation is defensible, though I think you could argue against it on the same grounds just as easily. At that point it is semantics and/or grammar. Of course, experience tells us, that GM's tend to favour the most conservative interpretation, so right or wrong (and getting a response from the Devs on such a minor point could be a crapshoot, instant or never...) let us assume, for the sake of discussion, that the interpretation is correct.
I'm not sure about your math though. If he got off at least half the shots (with the same chance of crits, his damage would tend to average around half as much, not down near a third or a quarter where you estimated it...
He has two guns, even single barreled, he would have 6 duel wielding shots, plus one from his dominant hand. Haste adds 1 more at the start, and if each of the first shots is a double shot, he'd have a grand total of 10.
Now, it is fair enough to say that once you can kill a Tarrasque in the surprise round, you should go home, and if nobody thinks it would be fun to have a guy like Graah! in the group, then I can take the hint. I am excited about the campaign, and I'd really like to get in, of course, so if that is the feeling, let me know, and I'll try to come up with another option - perhaps something a little less optimized...
@ Lady Rosalyn Luminass: Does your bow have an enhancement bonus?
Here's a rough draft of my character
human Bard 18 | Oracle 1/Paladin 17
str 16/22
dex 10
con 18/24
int 16
wis 10
cha 26/32
HP 322
AC 28 t 20 ff 18
bab 17
init +0
fort +31
ref +36
will +27
All untrained: 7+stat (can make any skill check untrained)
UMD r18+35
Perform r18 +35
Act, Oratory, Dance, Percussion, Sing
Climb r18 +30
Disable Device r18 +24
Escape Artist r18 +24
Linguistics r18 +27
Perception r18 +24
Diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive, Disguise, Acrobatics, Fly, Handle Animal, Intimidate r0 +35
Knowledge: all r0 +27
Extra Revelation, Lingering Performance, Fast Learner, Improvisation, Improved Improvisation, Greater Dirty Trick, Combat Expertise, Improved disarm, Antagonize, Fearless Aura, Ultimate Resolve, Dazzling Display
Bard: Bardic Performance (Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Countersong, Distraction, Fascinate, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, Dirge of Doom, Inspire Greatness, Soothing Performance, Frightening Tune, Inspire Heroics, Mass Suggestion), Versatile Performance (act, sing, dance, percussion, oratory), Well-Versed, Lore Master, Jack of all trades.
Oracle: Mystery (Lore), Oracle's Curse (Haunted), Revelations (Sidestep Secret, Lore Keeper)
Paladin: Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 6/day (+11 to hit, +11 deflection bonus to AC, +17 damage), Divine Grace, Lay on Hands (8d6; 19/day), Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Mercy (shaken, nauseated, stunned, fatigued, exhausted), Channel Positive Energy, Divine Bond (17 min; 4/day; +5), Aura of Resolve, Aura of Justice, Aura of Faith, Aura of Righteousness.
+4 tomes of charisma and constitution (used), +2 tomes of int and str (used), +5 holy avenger, +7 bracers of armor, +6 belt of physical might (str/con), +6 headband of charisma, necklace of adaptation, +3 cloak of resistance, luckstone, Pale green prism ioun stone, Wand of Shield, Wand of Bless Weapon, 120 gp, 1 cp
Bard:
0: Detect Magic, Know Direction, Mage Hand, Message, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
1: Cure Light Wounds, Detect Secret Doors, Fumbletongue, Hideous Laughter, Liberating Command, Timely Inspiration
2: Acute Senses, Cure Moderate Wounds, Gallant Inspiration, Heroism, Investigative Mind, Qualm
3: Arcane Concordance, Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic, Haste, See Invisible, Thundering Drums
4: Cure Critical Wounds, Dance of 100 Cuts, Dimension Door, Echolocation, Freedom of Movement
5: Greater Dispel Magic, Shadowbard, Song of Discord, Stunning Finale
6: Getaway, Magnifying Chime, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Sympathetic Vibration
Oracle:
0: Detect Poison, Guidance, Stabilize, Virtue
1: Cure Light Wounds, Divine Favor, Liberating Command
Paladin:
1: Litany of Sloth _ _ _ _ Lesser Restoration _ _ _
2: Resist Energy _ _ Widen Aura _ _ _ _
3: Litany of Sight _ _ _ _ _
4: Eaglesoul _ _ _
Frog, if I could suggest, you might want Good Hope as one of your bard spells.
also Graaah you have a BAB of +18... your gunslinger gives +16, the monk +1
interesting that with gestalt you don't need to be a full BAB class to get a full BAB bonus (I believe you should have a +17 BAB)