spell like ability=standard action to use, spell resistance applies and provokes aoo's?
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is gained.
So Standard Action, Spell Resistance applies and do not provoke AoO.
Source
Wow! They do provoke! I didn't knew that.
But it doesn't make sense, being that "has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally".
Oh well...
I agree- it makes no logical sense when evaluated on its own. The reason I don't disregard the rule is that it is there for the purpose of game balance (otherwise SLAs would have a huge advantage over spells).
I believe the fluff idea is that the mental effort required is so great that it both momentarily precludes effective self defense and is obvious to threatening enemies, like one suddenly has their eyes roll up into their head in a trance, or their face goes slack and their pupils dilate, or their eyes cross and they fart or something.
I don't find it in any way unreasonable, except that their description is so misleading. They should really insert something like:
"... Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component." Thus an SLA may be activated even while helpless, paralyzed, or otherwise physically restrained.
And
"... In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell." including provoking AoO.
Thanks for the patience, getting things back together now with new laptop.
That last door was a doozy
Nate asked me to pass this along, "probably no post tonight, had to go back to the emergency room with one of the boys. stomach pains."
Hope everything works out ok.
Thank you for your concern. I took my son to the hospital because he had some symptoms consistent with appendicitis but after several tests they determined it was just a stomach virus and after an IV to replenish his electrolytes he's feeling much better. I have to be up for work in 6 hours, though, so I'll post something tomorrow afternoon/evening.
Glad it was something quick.
Sorry for the delay, I'll have a post up today,
poor guy. glad he's mostly OK
Question: Does Black Tentacles attack invisible creatures in the area of effect?
yes, the spell does try to grapple invisible foes. the writhing mass of tentacles relies on sense of touch so invisibility doesn't matter.
Excellent! Thanks.
Can Valanthe cast it in such a way Rimy and Justinius are not in the area of effect?
And about her other questions in gameplay?
i'm at work so sometimes my posts come slowly... gameplay question should be answered. one demon is in the hallway you are looking down (where the door with the light coming out of it is), the other demon flew out of sight and then came up behind Rimy Jim in the hallway you originally came from. the one that's attacking you can easily be targeted with black tentacles without including any allies; the one that attacked Jim could be targeted without including him but it would cut off the rest of the party from reaching you.
Full gameplay post coming this afternoon - Jim will mention invisible halfelf in the room ahead, whom he assumes to be the old coot's son and a spellcaster, to Valanthe.
Is the creature Justinius can see large?
Is the hallway 10' wide?
The hallway is 10' wide and the demon is medium sized. You can move past the demon but the movement will provoke (unless you make an acrobatics check).
Just checking: Glitterdust is a 10' radius spread, so it covers 20' of the hallway.
She can't get both demons on the area of effect?
Correct. If you center it between yourself and Jim it would hit him and the demon behind him plus you and the space next to you that the demon attacked from and then stepped out of before vanishing. Or you could target either demon individually without hitting any party members. In between the two demons are an empty space, you, and Jim- so you would need a 25' diameter to hit both demons (and then it would also effect both you and Jim).
Sorry. the paizo server was down when I tried to post yesterday.
Ok, so Valanthe only targets the invisible one.
Tier 1: Undetectable - Grants its bonded user the ability to become utterly undetectable while invisible. While invisible and in physical contact with this item, the bonded creature can't be detected or scryed by any method.
Now that is a very, very badly worded piece of rules right there. Does this mean she effectively gets an infinite bonus to Stealth checks whether she wants it or not? i.e. can she no longer be heard, or even detected by touch?
I would say you don't become immaterial, so you can be grappled, or even hit by a lucky shot. I think it has to do with sound, smell, tremor sense, blind sense, etc. Detection at a distance.
But, as always, in the DM we trust.
Question: If she casts a spell is she heard? Can she still use message?
I would think you would still be heard. I agree with the different detection abilities being useless against you, but yeah that is some crazy wording
@GM Nate: Yes it is greater invisibility. (though it may not matter much, but my guy didn't know that at the time)
@Justinius: Wow.. paladins really don't like demons huh?
Messed that dude up,didn't I?
While invisible Val is utterly undetectable, that means she has no ability to communicate with anyone by any means. This offers no special immunity or protection from any kind of attack but her enemies have no way of knowing if the attack was successful. She could be grappled but the grappler would have no idea if it had succeeded and choosing to maintain a grapple would be a pure act of faith. Something like a black tentacles spell that indiscriminately tries to grapple everything in its area would effect her normally, and things that are immune to invisibility (because they are immune to illusions or have natural true seeing or something like that) are not effected by the legendary item ability either.
So, she needs to silently cast, or she can cast "as usual" and won't be detected anyway?
If able to cast "as usual" she would use Her prepared Permanent Image instead of wild arcana a spontaneous Mayor Image to make Tsuto talk to his father.
Directly above the doorway Jim opened, the badly burned body of Lonjiku Kaijitsu hangs upside down, with one leg bent, fully encased in shell of glass.
If you want that father/son reunion, Val, better to just blast him all to pieces. That will, however, make it much harder for us to have a word with him.
EDIT Ah, I see now - you're going for a "patental scolding from beyond the grave" approach!
I'm going to have to think about the whole thing some more... My inclination is to say that like the silence spell you can't cast spells with verbal components because you can't make any sound, but by that logic you couldn't hit anything either because you can't cause tactile senses...
Maybe I'll rule that it just renders you undetectable by any divination magic?
Yes, scolding by dead papa.
What about divination magic and scent?
But with a duration in rounds it makes it very weak for a mythic ability.
What if the divination protection is permanent and not only while invisible?
Immunity to all divinations would be a very potent ability, even if it was limited to a number of rounds each use (or minutes for base invisibility)... That would make see invisibility and true seeing useless against you, plus your presence wouldn't be given away with detect magic or anything like that, and you could even hide from scrying and spells like know location....
I'm going to need some time to decide exactly how it functions.
So I found this thread where a paizo designer confirms that it's meant to make the character undetectable by any means. After reading much of the rest of the highly repetitive discussion, the main conclusion seems to be that the character is not directly detectable by any means, i.e. their presence cannot be pinpointed with 100% certainty, however circumstantial evidence can still be used for educated guesses at DM discretion (footprints in snow, them carrying a light source, etc.) Many counters to this have been suggested, mainly different ways to cancel the core invisibility effect.
Also, while they can't be detected, it doesn't state that they can't make noise, just that nothing can detect it. Like a +infinity to their Stealth check.
Read at your leisure.
Holy crud, I totally missed all that healing that was handed out!
Thank you, Jim.
So, here's where we're at... the semi-official ruling is that, yes, the power makes you totally undetectable (but enemies could use clues like you shedding light or the source of a wound to guess your location); this renders you completely incapable of communicating directly with anyone, though you could leave notes for people to discover.
This is an incredibly powerful ability. So powerful that I'm not sure its a good idea to keep in the game.
I don't want to just throw it out arbitrarily after I approved Val with it, but if it remains in the game it will be available for mythic enemies to use as well... I have trouble imaging a scenario where an enemy NPC uses this ability and doesn't kill at least 2-3 of you.
I'd really like to hear everyone's thoughts on this.
The options, as I see them, are:
1) Remove it from the game and ask Val to please choose a different item ability (or replace legendary item with a different path ability if she prefers).
2) Create a new version of the ability that's power level is more in line with other abilities available at tier 1.
3) Leave it as is and take your chances if/when an enemy shows up with the same trick.
I'm fine with any of those decisions as long as Val is fine with it as well.
I say it incorrectly.
Instead of:
- What about divination magic and scent?
- Would be:
- What about scrying magic (permanent) and scent (while invisible)?
But even a "Makes her indetectable by scrying magic or spells that allow to see the invisible, like See Invisible or True Sight" could work.
But, if too much trouble, maybe I can change the Mythic Ability.
I could see myself going crazy trying to deal with a monster with this ability. Im fine with nerfing it or changing it. Or leave it and I'll just do my best when we face it. But Vals vote should be considered over mine.
Ok, I get it...
What about this one instead:
Metamagician: This ability allows a spellcaster to apply a metamagic feat she knows to a spell as she casts it. She must expend a number of uses of legendary power equal to the increase of spell level the metamagic feat usually applies (minimum 1). This metamagic feat is applied spontaneously and without changing the casting time. This ability can be placed only on a head, headband, staff, ring, or rod legendary item.
And we let Valanthe fool Tsuto "See invisible" for this time. I want to play the "daddy from hell" scene.
That change works fantastically for me if you are truly satisfied with it, Val. And then if you want to take undetectable later we could devote more time to designing a version that everyone is happy with.
For now we'll just say that Tsuto's inner turmoil is interfering with his ability to use his ki powers.
I need to go to bed but I'll get a new gameplay post up tomorrow morning.
Works for me.
Ok, great. Thank you, Val. Why don't you go ahead and post a round or two worth of your illusion and then when I post tomorrow we'll pick up with the rest of the party breaking into the room.
Everyone else, thanks for your patience while we iron this out.
Sorry, I totally missed that the door wasn't open! In my head it had fallen away after attacking it.
"Stabs McGee, travaling paladin, at your service."
no time for a real post right now, but before anyone wastes time on another combat post- Tsuto is very dead after that assault from Justinius.
RIP Tsuto
Sorry folks, I've got a super busy month lined up, so my posting is probably going to be a little spotty. I'll do my best!