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Desna's Chosen

Game Master MythrilDragon


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Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700
Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:

I thought Wild Empathy essentially allowed you to make checks to influence an animals attitude without speaking their language- if you have such an way of communicating such as speak with animals I would logically assume you could use normal diplomacy rules.

I'm easy either way though. Let me know if I should assign them to my sheet or not.

DM- alexkilcoyne@hotmail.com

Sent you the invite too.


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700
speak with animals wrote:
You can ask questions of and receive answers from animals, but the spell doesn't make them any more friendly than normal. Wary and cunning animals are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones make inane comments. If an animal is friendly toward you, it may do some favor or service for you.

The way I read it, the spell/potion will allow you to communicate but not change their view of you or their capacity to react to you. So Diplomacy won't work on INT under 3, but Wild Empathy will. If the spell could do it then it wouldn't be a special ability of the Ranger Class.


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700
Javell DeLeon wrote:

Totally love Aldern's butler bit...

"He has some disdain for the Heroes of Sandpoint, but is particularly not fond of Victor."

Man that makes me laugh. Good stuff. :)

Victor wrote:


Victor obviously flustered and slightly irritated, clears his throat and responds, "Yes yes, clearly." Being completely dumbfounded as to what to do with this person, "Well, begone! Or go away. Or whatever it is you are suppose to do." Turning to the others, "Excuse me, does anyone know what we are suppose to do with this man?" He turns back toward him and steps a little closer, "I don't think he is functioning properly. He is still standing there." He gives him a slight poke in the shoulder to see if he moves.

You gave me good reason :) One of the things I love about this game is these small details that make the story more interesting.


Mythril DM wrote:
speak with animals wrote:
You can ask questions of and receive answers from animals, but the spell doesn't make them any more friendly than normal. Wary and cunning animals are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones make inane comments. If an animal is friendly toward you, it may do some favor or service for you.
The way I read it, the spell/potion will allow you to communicate but not change their view of you or their capacity to react to you. So Diplomacy won't work on INT under 3, but Wild Empathy will. If the spell could do it then it wouldn't be a special ability of the Ranger Class.

Giving the extra potion of speak with animals to Belril, then. Since the best starting attitude you can get is indifferent for domestic animals and unfriendly for wild, there's no point someone carrying the potion who has no way to improve the animal's attitude so we can make requests or ask for something.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Mythril DM wrote:
Javell DeLeon wrote:

Totally love Aldern's butler bit...

"He has some disdain for the Heroes of Sandpoint, but is particularly not fond of Victor."

Man that makes me laugh. Good stuff. :)

Victor wrote:


Victor obviously flustered and slightly irritated, clears his throat and responds, "Yes yes, clearly." Being completely dumbfounded as to what to do with this person, "Well, begone! Or go away. Or whatever it is you are suppose to do." Turning to the others, "Excuse me, does anyone know what we are suppose to do with this man?" He turns back toward him and steps a little closer, "I don't think he is functioning properly. He is still standing there." He gives him a slight poke in the shoulder to see if he moves.
You gave me good reason :) One of the things I love about this game is these small details that make the story more interesting.

LOL! I know! Isn't it great?! Ah man, good times. :)


I'm still waiting for Mythril to update the General Store listing with Ven Vender's feelings toward Victor. ;D


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700
Joana wrote:
I'm still waiting for Mythril to update the General Store listing with Ven Vender's feelings toward Victor. ;D

I will get there.


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700

If there are particular parts of the thread invovling the citiznes of Sandpoint or any other indaviduals all of you remember well and want included in the record of the site, let me know and if possible a link to the part of the thread to help me remember. I am going to work my way through the thread focusing on the things that stuck out to me or that might be important to the overall plot. All of you might have insight on to other relationships you want your characters to build on so let me know so I can 1) add it to the site and 2) work on ways to include more of those interactions in the game thread.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Hey, let's not forget Shayliss's feelings toward Victor also, m-kay? Is all I'm sayin'. ;)


Going through the thread looking for local connections, this is what I've found so far:

Eponine is friends with Ameiko and has worked at the Glassworks and with Larz Rovanky at Rovanky Tannery.

Sophy got advice from Chask Haladan on taking care of the book of Desnan scriptures. She asked Ilsoari Gandethus to magically clean her new dress after Allishanda bled all over it, and he's also part of her Use Magic Device backstory.

Also, I don't believe we ever found out what happened to Chaddik who was supposed to be guarding the north gate.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Joana wrote:

Going through the thread looking for local connections, this is what I've found so far:

Eponine is friends with Ameiko and has worked at the Glassworks and with Larz Rovanky at Rovanky Tannery.

Sophy got advice from Chask Haladan on taking care of the book of Desnan scriptures. She asked Ilsoari Gandethus to magically clean her new dress after Allishanda bled all over it, and he's also part of her Use Magic Device backstory.

Also, I don't believe we ever found out what happened to Chaddik who was supposed to be guarding the north gate.

Thanks I will work to get these things onto the site.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

WOW, we just past 3000 posts!!


I missed that. That's quite an impressive tally!


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700

Belril, the way I have always handled the sling-staff is the same as two ended weapons where each end needs to be enchanted separately and at separate costs. So if a double bladed sword is thundering the creation cost has to be paid for both blades. I handle the sling staff like this with the sling and the staff having to be enchanted separately, so the cost was spent to give +1 to both parts, but the cost was only spent put on the thundering ability on the sling. That is the mechanics for giving Belril a nice sling staff that occasionally has bullets that go BOOM.

Andoran

HP 57/57, AC- 21 T- 14 FF- 18 CMD- 19, F +6, R +9, W +5, P +10, In +4, AOO +8

The sling staff is treated as a club in melee which is already pretty inferior- 20x2 crits for 1d4 damage. The entire point of Belril's mechanical build was to at least get the weapon enhancements on the sling staff which RAW, apply to it when used as a melee weapon (provided they aren't ranged only). Its still a club but at least its an enhanced club with some magic on it. I researched the RAW behind this build when I made Belril and he was definitely made with this feature in mind.

In fact, I pretty much think without it I may as well have made a different character, because this particular perk was the offset in my mind to a strength penalty, small weapon size damage, limited access to spells, feats and items that enhance ranged combat (so many only affect Bow and some only Bows and Crossbows). I don't think expecting the sling staff's enchantments to work when wielded as a club is such an unbalanced trade. Its the worst bludgeoning weapon in the game with a bit of magic on it.

The way your describing double weapons is the correct way to enhance them. A sling staff is not a double weapon and is thus not enchanted separately. I didn't want to bring this character into the game without being sure of the way it worked so I read up on it before I pitched Belril.

I'm happy with Belril's fluff but when I make a character, I do assume RAW unless the GM has specified otherwise. If I wanted the most optimal character I wouldn't be playing a Halfling Ranger. I'm trying not to be confrontational or upset about this but I feel its a little arbitrary to drop this on me now? Its a big enough change to Belril's mechanics that i'd be happier to roll another character and have the Eagle Knights swoop him away or something...

On the other hand, I am very appreciative of a nice way to drop some decent gear on us.

This isn't a big enough issue that i'm thinking of leaving the game or anything :)- but I will consider retiring Belril and re-rolling a character, with your permission. The entire reason the Sling Staff is exotic is because it has this capability.

Edit: Although by these rules, I now have a weapon worth about 12,000GP... Bwahaha.

Edit 2: I know, for example, that it is PFS legal... And the precedent is there- melee weapons that can be thrown have their enhancements applied to ranged attacks (when applicable).

Andoran

HP 57/57, AC- 21 T- 14 FF- 18 CMD- 19, F +6, R +9, W +5, P +10, In +4, AOO +8

Ok. With some time to think on it I don't think i'd have to retire Belril for this; a little bit too much of a knee-jerk reaction there. I still don't really see the need for the change but I can accept it.


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700
Belril Leokas wrote:
Ok. With some time to think on it I don't think i'd have to retire Belril for this; a little bit too much of a knee-jerk reaction there. I still don't really see the need for the change but I can accept it.

No worries, but try to think of it this way. Belril was given the gift of a weapon that belonged to another adventurer, it is better to hit as a club, and a sling and when used as a sling it sometimes does something special. I was intentional on the design, and the back story to the item you got. Mechanically this functions as a +1 sling-staff, thundering (sling side only). This is the item that Belril received. I could see your argument if you went to magic store and purchased a +1 Sling-staff, thundering by RAW and then I was trying to say but that only works on one side and was trying to limit the weapon. If I had just given you a +1 sling-staff, you wouldn't have said a thing so try to think of the thundering as a bonus on the +1 weapon above and beyond and not a limiting of the thundering ability. The value of the weapon is not 12,000. its 2000 (+1 bonus) + 1000 (.5 of +1 bonus for the partial thundering) + 300 (masterwork) + 20 (sling-staff cost) = 3320. Thats adjusting the way I look at the two ends and treating it as one whole item for enchanting it. This keeps it in value line with your other items and the items I gave to other characters to maintain a balance of the characters to each other.

Andoran

HP 57/57, AC- 21 T- 14 FF- 18 CMD- 19, F +6, R +9, W +5, P +10, In +4, AOO +8

So when I want to enchant it, i'm enchanting it as a single weapon or as two separate weapons? Your last reply has confused me.


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700

If you want to enchant it more I will consider it one weapon which is RAW. The group I used to play with did it the other way, house rule it was two separate ends. So think of it as enchanted +1 already with a 1/2 bonus on the sling side. So for half the cost of a +1 bonus you could get the staff part thundering. If you want it to have another ability on it full cost will enchant both sides. Is that better?


Elven Rogue 3/Ranger (Guide) 1/Wizard (Diviner, Foresight) 1 HPs 39/39 AC 17 FF 13 T 14 CMD 17 Fort +6 Ref +9 Will +4 Init +5 Per +10 (+1 vs. traps, +2 w/familiar)
Joana wrote:
Giving the extra potion of speak with animals to Belril, then. Since the best starting attitude you can get is indifferent for domestic animals and unfriendly for wild, there's no point someone carrying the potion who has no way to improve the animal's attitude so we can make requests or ask for something.

Just FYI, Eponine also has Wild Empathy as a class feature, and a diplomacy of +9.

Andoran

HP 57/57, AC- 21 T- 14 FF- 18 CMD- 19, F +6, R +9, W +5, P +10, In +4, AOO +8

DM I think that is reasonable and I must have misinterpreted you originally. Thanks for the clarification. Having to enchant both ends separately in the future was the issue, not the half enchant on it now.


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700
Belril Leokas wrote:
DM I think that is reasonable and I must have misinterpreted you originally. Thanks for the clarification. Having to enchant both ends separately in the future was the issue, not the half enchant on it now.

Cool, sorry I wasn't clear and I am glad we are on the same page now.


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700

Been holding off to give Kern and Belril a chance to post, I will continue sometime tomorrow afternoon regardless. Eponine is between places at the moment.


AC 13, HP 34/34; F+3, R+3, W+5, Per+4, Init.+2, AoO+2

I've been out of town the last couple days myself. I'll be ready to get back at it tomorrow..

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Just a heads up, I might not have time to post again until after the Thanksgiving Holiday. I have some major papers due in the next few days and I am behind again. Just wanted everyone to know I am still here, just need a few days to catch up on school and then I have a bunch of family plans over the long weekend.


Belril Leokas wrote:
Belril shrugged and returned the toast. We can always break him out, make it look like Goblins or something... I've got a pretty dim view of the authorities throwing him into prison so hastily. I can't say I like the turncoat, but this imprisonment is not a just one.

I say we stage a coup. Kingmaker: Sandpoint! Sophy will be queen, and Wren can be her jealous handmaiden. :)


Wren would be sooooooo mad at that, lol.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Joana wrote:
Belril Leokas wrote:
Belril shrugged and returned the toast. We can always break him out, make it look like Goblins or something... I've got a pretty dim view of the authorities throwing him into prison so hastily. I can't say I like the turncoat, but this imprisonment is not a just one.
I say we stage a coup. Kingmaker: Sandpoint! Sophy will be queen, and Wren can be her jealous handmaiden. :)

BUT I DONT HAVE THAT ADVENTURE PATH.

:D

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Sophy wrote:
Precedent: Acts 28:16, 30 ;)

It's funny that you cite that. I just had a class discussion on Biblical house arrest last week. In some places Prisoners were often sent to the houses of the wealthy who rented out rooms in a sort of first century privatization of prisons. Of course they only provided a room to lock the prisoner up in, the family or slaves of the prisoner would have to come to care for them and bring food and such. People with out the means to rent the prison rooms could have been tossed into pit, to be held until trial, and family was still responsible for their care. They didn't have a jailing system like we are familiar with today, house arrest was in place of a county lock up and only for those with the means to afford it. In case you are curious.

Don't take that to mean you can't convince the mayor to allow a House Arrest for Orik at one of the Inns or even release him into your care...You will just have to convince her he is not a threat and that you all will be responsible for him. Looking forward to some good Diplomacy rolls to see how that plays out. If that doesn't work it could be interesting to see what happens if you decided to follow Belril's plan. Pathfinder a la the TV show Prison Break.


MythrilDragon wrote:
I just had a class discussion on Biblical house arrest last week. In some places Prisoners were often sent to the houses of the wealthy who rented out rooms in a sort of first century privatization of prisons. Of course they only provided a room to lock the prisoner up in, the family or slaves of the prisoner would have to come to care for them and bring food and such. People with out the means to rent the prison rooms could have been tossed into pit, to be held until trial, and family was still responsible for their care. They didn't have a jailing system like we are familiar with today, house arrest was in place of a county lock up and only for those with the means to afford it. In case you are curious.

Orik has the means to afford it; we owe him a lot of gold.

Bible history discussion:
And I don't think it's entirely accurate to say there was no "county lock-up" in New Testament times. The apostles in Jeruslem were repeatedly put in custody and under guard overnight somewhere other than a pit without making arrangements (Acts 4:3, Acts 5:18 -- "they arrested the apostles and put them in the public prison," which had doors with locks and guards standing at them, Acts 12:4-6 -- Peter is in chains behind several doors and layers of guards). And in Philippi (Acts 16:23-27), a jailer kept a prison, undoubtedly in a private house but as serving as a city jail, with stocks and several layers of doors, not a private room like the one Paul later lived in at his own expense in Rome while awaiting trial. When he was held by the Romans in Caesarea for more than two years, it's reported as a sign of the liberty afforded him that his friends weren't prohibited from bringing him food and supplies, implying that those without liberty were not allowed to have their needs met from the outside (Acts 24:23). I got my MDiv 15 years ago. ;P

MythrilDragon wrote:
Looking forward to some good Diplomacy rolls to see how that plays out.

Already wasted an 18 and got nothing from it. She'll roll a 1 when you cue her for the roll that counts. :P

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Joana:
Yeah, "no county lock" up is me trying to simplify. Our discussion was focused on Philemon (my advanced exegesis class) and not on the prison system but we had a few comments on it. I do confess I haven't done the exegetical work on prisons in the first century in full, I just think it funny that one day you posted that and shortly after that we are are talking about it in class. So now I am interested...were did you do your Mdiv studies? There are a few of us on campus who are gamers, which seems to be odd in our chosen vocation...so I am curious how your hobby affects your ministry, if that is how you are using your Mdiv considering that many people get them for many different reasons.


Mythril:
SWBTS in Fort Worth. I worked in children's ministry for a while, starting as an intern when I was in school and then transitioning to very-poorly-paid professional when I got my degree. Got offered a better position in Louisiana before graduation, but by then I was engaged to a man with a job in Texas so I stayed where I was with my pittance. Eventually quit to take care of my own kids instead of other people's.

I never played D&D until after I got married. Grew up hearing the "occult" hoopla, so when my husband's family started talking about playing a few months after the wedding, it was a little shocking! ;) Decided it was foolish to reject something without really knowing what it was about, and they were all nice, normal people so I agreed to give it a try. I'd always enjoyed acting and creative writing, so it was an easy fit. Ironically enough, a year or so later, my husband met a guy at work who was still in seminary and was a gamer and we went over to student housing for a game session with him and his friends one night! So, yeah, we had gamers at Southwestern too, even if I didn't know about it until after my own student days.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Joana:
Thanks for sharing your story, I have been gaming since the third grade when my Dad, (a Presbyterian Pastor) brought home the Red Box D&D set. He was a big fan of Tolkien and C.S. Lewis finding the Christian imagery in those works. I hadn't planned on seminary but lost my job while my wife was in her first year of seminary and God seemed to be pushing it, so three years later I am close to graduating and looking to find a Chaplain Residency program. One of the things I hope to do with my Creative Writing undergrad, MDiv, and love of RPG's is find a way to create a gaming scenario that youth and young adults can play, then follow with a Q&A Bible study to look at moral choices and Christian ethics.


Mythril:
My nephew's wife is starting her MAMFC at Southwestern in January, and my nephew hopes to begin his MDiv there in the fall after he finishes his Bachelor's degree, so it's a family tradition now. He's part of my RL gaming group -- or was before we quasi-disbanded during the lead-up to his wedding. (Unfortunately, his wife isn't interested in playing, and when they were engaged, she didn't like him being away from her one Saturday afternoon a month to play. :P )

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Joana:
I get the family business. My Grandfather, Dad, Uncle all retired pastors. My Uncles sons both have Mdivs, one working as a pastor the other working for a peacemaking fellowship as the lead IT guy, The one who is a pastor's wife went to seminary, not sure what degree and she is working for a church but not in a pastoral role. The other was recently divorced, but his exwife was also an Mdiv grad, she also didn't go directly into a traditional role and I think is doing something with ethics and food consciousness. My wife just graduated with her MDiv and is looking for a church to call her...and then me. :) My wife played RPG's with us for a while when we were dating and when we first got married. Now she is not as interested, but would come back to the table if we played Star Wars d20.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Christmas time is my busy time of the year. Until after it's over, my posting is gonna be hit and miss during the work week. Just fyi. Will try to keep up as best as possible but if not, DMPC me as needed.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Thanks for the heads up Javell. I am going into the last week of the semester and finals so I too might be limited to my posting time. I plan to try and check the board at least once a day. I haven't seen a post from Kern of Eponine for a while...I hope we haven't lost them after all our delays :) Also an FYI I will be traveling the week of Christmas and probably won't be posting at all between the 23 and the 29th.


Elven Rogue 3/Ranger (Guide) 1/Wizard (Diviner, Foresight) 1 HPs 39/39 AC 17 FF 13 T 14 CMD 17 Fort +6 Ref +9 Will +4 Init +5 Per +10 (+1 vs. traps, +2 w/familiar)

Based on the narration, Eponine has been in transit between the Rusty Dragon and the holding cells. I'll update in the main thread. :)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16

Eponine wrote:
Based on the narration, Eponine has been in transit between the Rusty Dragon and the holding cells. I'll update in the main thread. :)

I did put a post about Eponine arriving at the Garrison and Sargent Blake greeting her at the door. It is one of the large blocks I did with **** separating the action of the different PC groupings. It would be at the bottom of the entry.


Infinite apologies for the lack of posting. Kern was letting Sophy and Orik discuss for a little while there, and somewhere along the way, I totally lost track of how long it had been since I last posted. I think I'm just overworked, like so many others. At any rate, I'm very much still around! :)


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700

I am going to start on an new DM post, this week is my last week of classes and then I have exam's next week. I will post as I can, don't stress if you can't and we will move along as slow as we need to. I will try to wait for everyone to make at least one post before I put in another full DM post.


That sounds fine to me. If we can just keep popping in individually as available through the holidays, I suspect we can pick up a better pace again in the new year.


Mythril DM wrote:

Now convincing the Jailor to let you stay and visit with a prisoner longer than the normal aloted time is a different situation. The Heroes of Sandpoint have a good reputation in town and Eponine has established in role-play a relationship with the jail and providing food, and Kern and Wren were polite in there comments to him about the other two staying. I think that means that Vachedi is probably Helpful towards the group. DC 0+CHR mod for an unstated NPC we can call that a base DC of 0. Asking him to let a prisoner stay out of his cell and let you stay goes against his rules and could get him punished, but not likely to severely so I say that is a +15 to the DC. So DC is 15 for him to allow you to stay with Orik. Eponine rolled an 11. I am going to give a +2 role-play bonus for the maple biscuits for a 13. If Sophy can make a successful Aid Another roll Diplomacy DC 10 you will succeed, if not we will see how the story unfolds....

If you just want to stay in the lobby of the Garrison while Orik is returned to his cell you don't have to roll. No one is going to force you to leave the Garrison, so the Diplomacy is only needed to keep having access to talking to Orik.

Sophy has a +9 Diplomacy so she can't fail an Aid Another, but it never occurred to me (and thus, her) to request that Orik be kept out of his cell. She wasn't intending on staying physically with Orik. I'm not certain that wouldn't offend her sense of propriety, spending that much time alone-ish with a strange man. She just wants not to be forced to leave.


Evening Day 1 Total earned XP: 13700

So, do you want to have Sophy exit the visiting room and go upstairs to the Garrison lobby to await what happens next, or do you want to stay in the visiting chamber with Orik? What ever you think fits the character best is fine by me. I took your not wanting to to leave and have the mayor come to you as Sophy saying she was trying to imprison herself in solidarity and wanting to remain with Orik.

NOTE about rolls, natural 20's and natural 1's and how I house rule this. Since I can't remember if this has come up before I won't enforce it on Sophy's Aid Another (if thats what she wants to do.)

Skill Checks: a natural 20 will always succeed even if the target DC is more than 20+ the modifiers. a natural 1 will aways be a failure even if modifiers are enough to beat the DC. This is not a critical failure so it won't make a scenario worse for the PC.

Combat Rolls: a natural 20 will always hit the target even if the AC is more than 20+modifiers. Critical hits are checked on any roll that would hit the AC and in the threat range for the weapon. So if if the AC of the monster is 30 and you have a +5 to hit, a roll of 20 would be 25. It would hit but is not a chance for a critical. a natural 1 is always a miss. I am not a fan of critical failures that can case injury or death to PC or Allies, instead if the miss is on a natural 1 there is a mishap (bow breaks, drop the weapon, slip and fall- something to increase the difficulty of the situation.)

The reason I do it this way is I think the heroes should always have a chance to get lucky and pull it out and I think that there should always be some tension about will it work when it needs to.

It is my hope that when rolls of 1's do come up they are opportunities to role-play and be creative in character, and are not seen as a way for the DM to punish the PC's for failure. Just ways for the characters to grow.


Mythril DM wrote:
Skill Checks: a natural 20 will always succeed even if the target DC is more than 20+ the modifiers. a natural 1 will aways be a failure even if modifiers are enough to beat the DC. This is not a critical failure so it won't make a scenario worse for the PC.

Michael Phelps's world record time in the 400m individual medley is 4:03.84. That's just over 40 rounds of making Swim checks. By this rule, he should have stopped dead in the water and failed to make progress for 6 seconds twice during the race (1 out of every 20 times, on average, will be a failure, even though he has double-digit bonuses to Swim checks and the DC to swim in a pool is 10 or less).

Mythril DM wrote:
Combat Rolls: a natural 20 will always hit the target even if the AC is more than 20+modifiers. Critical hits are checked on any roll that would hit the AC and in the threat range for the weapon. So if if the AC of the monster is 30 and you have a +5 to hit, a roll of 20 would be 25. It would hit but is not a chance for a critical.

This hurts low BAB characters vis-a-vis high BAB and makes them less attractive to play. What's the incentive to wade in and even try to make a difference if you know that your very best will only result in 1d4-1 of damage?

Mythril DM wrote:
The reason I do it this way is I think the heroes should always have a chance to get lucky and pull it out and I think that there should always be some tension about will it work when it needs to.

No, the full-BAB classes have a chance to get lucky and pull it out; the rogues and bards and such are relegated to the sidelines because they can't hit the dragon or whatever's AC with their pluses so they might as well stay out of it. All Sophy needs is less chance to contribute. Also devalues the Improved Critical feat and the keen weapon quality, as well as making extended-crit-range weapons less desirable. Quite frankly, the way this party has gone, I don't think we're in any need of more tension about whether we'll succeed or not. (Plus, AK never rolls 1's so all you're going to do is give Belril more reason to disrespect the rest of the PCs and their lack of ability.)

Taldor

Male

Actually, it particular punishes higher BAB characters and in particular TWFer's, those using Rapid/Manyshot or those making extra attacks... Spells don't have critical fumbles either so the low BABer's (who are considered dominant anyway) get an edge.


Well, it dissuades low BAB-ers from making attacks, that's true, and rewards them playing to their stereotype, standing back and buffing/healing/whatever. Personally, playing the "power behind the throne" always bores the heck out of me. It's why I can never play bards. Getting sick of witches, too. Fortune hex, Cackle, lather, rinse, repeat. Blah. I feel like I'm playing a Wondrous Item or a spell effect.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Yeah, can't say I'm a fan of either house rule.

When it comes to skills, most of them for every pc are gonna be a challenge. Because you can't be good at all of them. There's always a couple here and there that they'll be good at. Especially for those pc's who have spent feats on such skills.

For instance, take a pc with a +30 to Stealth and he rolls a 1, and then you have the npc(s) best perception mod is +6. Technically, there's no way they can see the pc. At all. But because of the 1 Stealth roll, there's no way he hides.

When a pc spends feats and his adventuring career on a certain skill, he should be very good at it. And going back to the Stealth issue above, if there is no one with at least a +11 Perception, then no one should be able to spot him either.

If you look at Joana's, 'Michael Phelps' example: If we were pc's and I were to swim against him, and he rolls a 1 and I don't, then I should be able to swim better than him. Even though I've got a +6 in swim, say, and he has a +50. You see? REGARDLESS of how good I roll and how bad he rolls, he would and should win. Always. There's no chance of me winning at all. As it should be.

It's tough enough to make skill checks as is, and now you want to make it to where there's a chance we're gonna fail even that one? No matter how much we've invested in said skill? Again, don't like it.

And when it comes to crits, that pretty much eliminates the non-warrior types from ever critting. Isn't it difficult enough to crit, as is? I think so. You still have to roll again to see if you actually do crit. Why make it worse?

Everybody has a chance of landing a "lucky" shot, regardless of class. With this house rule, you completely remove that option for some pc's.

Edit: As per AK's statement: Spell wise I agree. But if these low BAB folks ever run out of spells and have to attack, they got no shot at a crit. And I also see why the multiple attack/round warriors could be at a disadvantage, but only because of the minuses involved. Still, these guys have their ability score(typically anyway) set to where it is strong depending on what warrior type they want to be, and they've spent feats and such to help them out in that area as well. Most low BAB pc's don't spend feats on ranged/melee attacks. And again, when they run out of spells, odds are that whatever they use for a weapon has no chance of critting.


Also, the crit houserule favors monsters over PCs, as most monsters are going to have both higher ACs and higher attack bonuses than the PCs for whom they're an appropriate CR. That AC 30 monster is approximately CR 15, according to the monster-building guidelines, and has a +24 to hit if it's melee-focused, +18 to hit if it's not built for melee combat. It's never going to have to worry about a natural 20 not adding up to enough to hit one of us.

Taldor

Male

I'm not really trying to rock the boat here, I think i've done enough of that recently. Just wanted to chime in on that one little bit :).

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