Dawn of the material plane

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Yeah, DR is no joke at level 20. You want to be able to beat all the common forms.

Fighting something that has like DR 15/Something you don't have is a nightmare, best to minimize the chance that will ever happen.


yep I thought so as well, a full casting/manifesting on ether side and its 100% cash. We are not getting Cash from both sides, and it this case the house rule I think is the lowest cash level from ether side.
So its 880kgp for me


fnord72 wrote:
@Fury, my 20th level wizard has 8 9th level spells. That's it. Any more and they cost me $3825 each. I have 4 8th level spells, extra's cost $3000 each. And that doesn't include the material cost to add them to my spell book since I'll pretty much have to spend another 12.5k on a blessed book.

So? They are still insanely powerful spells. Admittedly, you likely can only cast 4, maybe 5 at best a day. But those are spells like Wish, Mage's Disjunction and Gate. Spells that manipulate reality itself!

fnord72 wrote:
The 22.4k you have for armor is a suit of celestial? Why keep it there? For another 16k you can have +5 chainmail celestial armor. And there's no reason why you couldn't have it crafted up by adding on some special properties to have Heavy Fortification Celestial Armor +5 for 113.4k.

Eh. Why bother? Heavy Fortification is a only a 75% chance, and I don't think there is many creatures with sneak-attack. Not to mention they'll still have to actually hit me. Why spend 16k on +2 to armour, when I can get a Ring of Protection +3 for 18k? Only 2k more, but an extra AC, and it applies to Touch & Flat-flooted AC as well.

fnord72 wrote:
The 18.375 weapon could similarly be increased. Not sure why you would want only a +3. Having at least a +5 enhancement is almost a necessity. But, your choice.

Don't exactly need more currently. Already hitting +54 to attack and +37 to damage, I mean yeah I'm likely going to increase it as I do have plently of gold to spend. But it just goes to show you don't really need to spend so much gold on Weapons & Armour

fnord72 wrote:

@Sundakan

Ahh, I thought that a full caster on either side was a flat 100%

Actually, Sundakan is wrong.

Powergaming DM wrote:
Sorcerer/Paladin gets 100%


Fury of the Tempest wrote:

fnord72 wrote:
The 18.375 weapon could similarly be increased. Not sure why you would want only a +3. Having at least a +5 enhancement is almost a necessity. But, your choice.
Don't exactly need more currently. Already hitting +54 to attack and +37 to damage, I mean yeah I'm likely going to increase it as I do have plently of gold to spend. But it just goes to show you don't really need to spend so much gold on Weapons & Armour

The main point is that drops to a piddling +22 damage per swing against something like a Balor. Which at level 20 is basically fodder.


Fury of the Tempest wrote:

Powergaming DM wrote:
Sorcerer/Paladin gets 100%

Which gets back to what the GM is trying to accomplish by gimping the sorcerer/paladin gold, but not the (whatever non-caster)/paladin or the barbarian/monk.


Sorry, miscalculated. Its +58 to attack and +43 to damage. Even against something like a Balor, that's +28 to damage. That's not taking into account extracts, or things like Power Attack. The later alone turns my attacks to +52 attack and +61 damage.

I mean sure, I suppose I could make my weapon Holy and Cold Iron and likely will pick up Holy at least. But I'm still doing a lot of damage to someone with DR 15 with only spending 20k on my weapon.

fnord72 wrote:
Which gets back to what the GM is trying to accomplish by gimping the sorcerer/paladin gold, but not the (whatever non-caster)/paladin or the barbarian/monk.

Because the 9th level spells are insane?


Fury of the Tempest wrote:

Sorry, miscalculated. Its +58 to attack and +43 to damage. Even against something like a Balor, that's +28 to damage. That's not taking into account extracts, or things like Power Attack. The later alone turns my attacks to +52 attack and +61 damage.

I mean sure, I suppose I could make my weapon Holy and Cold Iron and likely will pick up Holy at least. But I'm still doing a lot of damage to someone with DR 15 with only spending 20k on my weapon.

fnord72 wrote:
Which gets back to what the GM is trying to accomplish by gimping the sorcerer/paladin gold, but not the (whatever non-caster)/paladin or the barbarian/monk.
Because the 9th level spells are insane?

Out of curiosity how are you getting those numbers?


Shady_Motives wrote:
Hey DM do you allow items from 3.5 Item Compendium? Namely the weapon crystals?

Don't know what those are and don't feel like looking them up so no.


fnord72 wrote:

Been following the thread and thinking about a submission.

So, caster's can't get a break from crafting, and get half the cash?

Why exactly are martial characters getting a cash boost?

Is it to reduce the number of casters in the group?

There seems to be some questions about gear.

What I have gathered so far is:

1) no price break for custom crafted gear.
2) player must have craft skills(feats?) for any gear not in the book.
3) combined items are ok, but must follow rules #1 and #2.

A caster may end up with more gear if they get a price break and burn feats for crafting. But this has been eliminated. With gestalt, most casters are going to have the same (or similar) need for armor/weapons unless they take full casting on both sides (which is kinda dumb).

A martial character can only wear one suit of armor, and only wield a few weapons, so they will most likely be using a lot of that extra cash for tomes and manuals.

So it sounds like martial characters will have better stats and defenses than a caster class.

Many say that marshal are underpowered at low levels, but many want to play them anyway so I added in a crude balance measure.


So, any thoughts on the Limbjack thing?

And does something like a Bard/Inquisitor get 150% wealth, or 100%?


I suddenly had a character idea for this. Sorry it's so late. What wealth would a Barbarian / Inquisitor have?


150% Bard/Inquisitor from my knee jerk reaction.


Powergaming DM wrote:
150% Bard/Inquisitor from my knee jerk reaction.

Neato. Time to deck out with my tech out, yee haw!


Sundakan wrote:

So, any thoughts on the Limbjack thing?

And does something like a Bard/Inquisitor get 150% wealth, or 100%?

Limbjack is +1 CR if you only have 2 arms.


Yeah, I knew that. It's +2 CR if you replace your legs too (and would be +3 if I replaced all 4 arms, so I only replaced two).

What I meant was the cost. When am I considered to have gotten them? 20th? 10th? 1st? And I'm assuming the "no pre-game crafting" means I pay full price.

That's 96,000 gp at full price, 20th level, which seems a bit steep for the benefits (24k less than Lich, which gives A LOT more). 48k would be better, but I can eat the cost either way.

Also, think I'll take Occultist (Battle Host) or Cryptic (Brutal Disruptor, maybe) instead of Machinesmith. It looks less and less good the mre I look at it, even if the Analyzer is rad. I can reflavor those other two as tech (and the Cryptic has the added benefit of "Tattoos are power" as a class theme!).


Separate question...for classes that get a Spell Resistance "buff" as a class ability or Template thing, can we lower our SR and LEAVE it down?

Normally it takes a Standard action EVERY ROUND to keep it down, and as such it acts more as a debuff than a buff.


Sundakan wrote:

Yeah, I knew that. It's +2 CR if you replace your legs too (and would be +3 if I replaced all 4 arms, so I only replaced two).

What I meant was the cost. When am I considered to have gotten them? 20th? 10th? 1st? And I'm assuming the "no pre-game crafting" means I pay full price.

That's 96,000 gp at full price, 20th level, which seems a bit steep for the benefits (24k less than Lich, which gives A LOT more). 48k would be better, but I can eat the cost either way.

Also, think I'll take Occultist (Battle Host) or Cryptic (Brutal Disruptor, maybe) instead of Machinesmith. It looks less and less good the mre I look at it, even if the Analyzer is rad. I can reflavor those other two as tech (and the Cryptic has the added benefit of "Tattoos are power" as a class theme!).

I think I'll wave the money cost for templates.

Also spell resistance is in many ways a debuff. If you find a way to get around it let me know.


Yeah I love the spell resist from unchained monk. Only up when I want it up.


Powergaming DM wrote:
Sundakan wrote:

Yeah, I knew that. It's +2 CR if you replace your legs too (and would be +3 if I replaced all 4 arms, so I only replaced two).

What I meant was the cost. When am I considered to have gotten them? 20th? 10th? 1st? And I'm assuming the "no pre-game crafting" means I pay full price.

That's 96,000 gp at full price, 20th level, which seems a bit steep for the benefits (24k less than Lich, which gives A LOT more). 48k would be better, but I can eat the cost either way.

Also, think I'll take Occultist (Battle Host) or Cryptic (Brutal Disruptor, maybe) instead of Machinesmith. It looks less and less good the mre I look at it, even if the Analyzer is rad. I can reflavor those other two as tech (and the Cryptic has the added benefit of "Tattoos are power" as a class theme!).

I think I'll wave the money cost for templates.

Also spell resistance is in many ways a debuff. If you find a way to get around it let me know.

Cool on the first, disappointing on the second. Cryptic gets Power Resistance 12+level (so 32) as an ability at 18th, and it's always on.

Guess I'll just have to live with buffs or healing fizzling on me sometimes. =/

Still, Cryptic is otherwise excellent. I'm going to reflavor most of the abilities as NANOMACHINES, SON.

Shady_Motives wrote:
Yeah I love the spell resist from unchained monk. Only up when I want it up.

HUGE improvement on Core on that one, yeah.


Here is the crunch for my character thus far. If there is any issues with it DM, please let me know.

Shady_Motives wrote:
Out of curiosity how are you getting those numbers?

20 BAB. 37 Strength. 2hd Weapon. Studied Combat. Studied Target. Fortune-Blessed+Fate's Favoured. Eternal Good Hope Potion. VMC Fighter Weapon Training +2, Gloves of Dueling. +1 Flat Enchantment and Weapon Focus.

That's not taking stuff like Enlarge Person, Mutagen, Potion of Greater magic weapon +5, Monstrous Physique II or Giant Form I into account. As well as Power Attack and Vital Strike line.

Powergaming DM wrote:
marshal

Martial. Not Marshal.

Martial means relating to fighting or war.

Marshal is an officer of the highest ranking


Fury of the Tempest wrote:

Here is the crunch for my character thus far. If there is any issues with it DM, please let me know.

Shady_Motives wrote:
Out of curiosity how are you getting those numbers?

20 BAB. 37 Strength. 2hd Weapon. Studied Combat. Studied Target. Fortune-Blessed+Fate's Favoured. Eternal Good Hope Potion. VMC Fighter Weapon Training +2, Gloves of Dueling. +1 Flat Enchantment and Weapon Focus.

That's not taking stuff like Enlarge Person, Mutagen, Potion of Greater magic weapon +5, Monstrous Physique II or Giant Form I into account. As well as Power Attack and Vital Strike line.

Powergaming DM wrote:
marshal

Martial. Not Marshal.

Martial means relating to fighting or war.

Marshal is an officer of the highest ranking

Vital strike? Why limit yourself to 1 attack per round at this level?

Also I have a question: Since monk becomes native outsider at 20th level, can they no longer benefit from spells like Enlarge Person?


Shady_Motives wrote:
Vital strike? Why limit yourself to 1 attack per round at this level? And how did you get your HP so high?

I'm only going to use that when I only have 1 attack per round. Plus, a little bit planning ahead. As Mythic Vital Strike allows me to multiple EVERYTHING that is multiplied by a critical hit.

As for HP? Max HP Per Level. d10 from slayer. +10 from Con = 20. 20*20 = 400.


Shady_Motives wrote:


Also I have a question: Since monk becomes native outsider at 20th level, can they no longer benefit from spells like Enlarge Person?

This is true, yes.

Many of a Monk's higher level abilities are double-edged swords at best.


Fury of the Tempest wrote:
Shady_Motives wrote:
Vital strike? Why limit yourself to 1 attack per round at this level? And how did you get your HP so high?

I'm only going to use that when I only have 1 attack per round. Plus, a little bit planning ahead. As Mythic Vital Strike allows me to multiple EVERYTHING that is multiplied by a critical hit.

As for HP? Max HP Per Level. d10 from slayer. +10 from Con = 20. 20*20 = 400.

Yeah i was asking because you had more then me and i'm d12 HP. It's helping me to look at your sheet, keep findingg mistakes in mine lol.

Too bad I'm staying with monk/barbarian, my Unarmed hits for 8d6. Mythic vital strike with that would be scary.


8d6? How on earth you managing that?


Large size, Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike), Monk Robes. It was a nightmare trying to figure out the damage dice for all those modifications because it goes beyond any tables for enlarge person or large weapons. First I had to figure out what a 25th Monk's UA would be, then make it large damage and then increase it from improved natural attack.

Edit: And I just saw that feat specifically mentions it doesn't work for UA. Duh.

Welp that saves me a feat.


When we go Mythic you can grab Titan Strike and hit like you're HUUUUGE.


Oooooo nice! Although high level monk already overcomes hardness with Ki Strike (Adamantine) so mythic improved unarmed strike is kind of meh.


Have to admit, looking at my character, I'm a little concerned. 34AC isn't going to be enough, is it? Considering that a Balzor can hit it at on a 3 at most, I'm going to be hit often. Whilst I do have Barkskin to give me a +5 bonus to AC, I'm still not sure that's enough...

Does anyone have any advice as to how to increase my AC even more? I could drop my Con Manual from +5 to +3 (Only losing one Fort Save and 20 HP if I do so), which would give me 55k to spend, which I could use on a Ring of Protection +5, so I can boost my AC to 44, but I'm still not overtly confident on that in all honestly...


You should have at 20th level, all of your "big six" stuff, or an equivalent, maxed out.

1.) Stat boosters (belts first, Tomes AFTER you have the other memebers of the 6)

2.) Amulet of Natural Armor

3.) Ring of Protection

4.) Weapons

5.) Armor and Shields

6.) Cloak of Resistance


I'm sitting on a 57 AC (before raging, 60 after). I should say one comment on AC, I tend to think of it as an all or nothing affair. If you can't get it high enough that your opposition is at least batting under 500, you are likely wasting time. Most of the CR 23-24 stuff is around +35-40 to hit. If you can't reach at least mid 40s, don't bother wasting money (it can help with iteratives, and maybe protect you from power attack, but might not be worth the cost).

I'd have to see the build to really offer advice.

However for general reference in making AC climb, the order of purchase is:

Armor +1
shield +1
ring +1
Amulet +1
Armor +2
Shield +2
Jingasa of the fortune soldier +1 luck (with fate's favored, +2)
Dusty rose prism ioun stone +1 insight
Armor +3
Shield +3
Ring +2
Amulet +2
Armor +4
Shield +4
Armor +5
Shield +5
Ring +3
amulet +3
(etc on ring and amulet)

There's not much else in the way of AC items. There are feats which help, and I did grab a trait. I get 1 from a trait, and 3 from various feats. I also get more inherent natural armor from raging (beast totem).

My character is a pretty serious brick. He's apparently not quite as vigorous a damage dealer as some, but his saves are fairly ridiculous, coupled with a high AC, DR 10/- and 560 HP when raging, he takes a bit of killing.

One note on the sheet, I forgot to correct the SR (which herolab does wrong because of getsalt), it should be only 25 which is basically meaningless at this level.


My AC is currently 37...utterly naked. Well, with my Mutagen up anyway.


Not raging my AC is 60 with DR 5/-. Raging it's 58 with DR 11/-. While I rage all of my melee attacks are enchanted with Shocking Burst from class abilities and ghost touch, icy burst and holy from my gauntlets.


Demon Lurking wrote:
I suddenly had a character idea for this. Sorry it's so late. What wealth would a Barbarian / Inquisitor have?

@Powergaming DM: I think you may have missed my question.


After allocating much of my gear, I'm at 55 AC with a constant 50% Concealment (Eternal Tattoo Greater Concealing Amorpha).

Mt attack bonus isn't nearly as high as Fury's character (clocking in at around 37, 33 with Power Attack), but my damage output is solid (6 natural attacks at 28 or 26 apiece, +22 damage or more static, +9 more as a Swift, +10d6+9 to each, plus 10d6 Sneak Attack sometimes), but I'm very sturdy.

55 AC, 50% miss, DR 5/-, immune to poison, disease, sleep, cold, nonlethal damage, and paralysis, don't die until -44 HP, and if I die I just reform elsewhere from my Astral Seed.

I think I'm going to base myself combat-wise around tearing down the enemy. Just debuffs galore on every attack, whatever I can think of to add. Cornugon Smash and Dislocating Pattern is already "-4 to everything" if I can land a hit. Not sure what else to add.


My spell dc's will range between 30-40. Is that low or high for level 20?


That's normal. Most things in the CR area appear to have saves around 20, so those DCs are pretty hard.


Sundakan wrote:
Also, think I'll take Occultist (Battle Host) or Cryptic (Brutal Disruptor, maybe) instead of Machinesmith. It looks less and less good the mre I look at it, even if the Analyzer is rad. I can reflavor those other two as tech (and the Cryptic has the added benefit of "Tattoos are power" as a class theme!).

Which is 'exactly' why I took Cryptic for my Pison/Cryptic high tech boild. Its a core port of the theme for my high tech PC, she has fine circuity all over her body, and had been from the get go. She also has the 'Inscribe Psionic Tattoo' feat so her items are in fact circuity on her body. All again Thematic for her as an Advanced AI Elan [Think Bio-mechanical synthetic being, with her powers embedded into her construction]

She also has two Psicystals as drones, One form class [Psicystal feat] and One is a Cohort Nomad [Single class Cohort] to help her get around and both as a kind of weapons platforms for her. She tends to do her fighting V them and they are both covered V mind blank like power.

All again Thematic and linked to who she is and why she is here.
All high tech with out being silly powerful, The idea being she is low provide so the god-likes don't spot her.


Yeah. I added Cyberart because it would look cool at first, and so I could maybe do away with a formula book.

Then I remembered Cryptics have that as a mechanical feature anyway. Many of their Insights are easily flavored as tech, so it seemed like a perfect match.

I have now replaced nearly every part of my body with tech, sans my other two arms. Muscles, tendons, skin. Organs preserved in chemicals (Preserve Organs and Mummification) and sealed away in armored, nanite filled jars (Thoracic nanite chamber). Eyes and ears cybernetic, and highly enhanced (Cryptic Supreme Insight).

He truly is more machine now, than man Kreen.


My idea as she is complexly Bio-Mechanical, a synthetic beings from her mind down [AI template] down to her body [Advanced Elan]. Elan being a manufactured race etc. Think Replicant from Blade runner and you have it.

A super Smart AI bring, Advanced body. Her power matrix embedded into her Bio-Mechanical body, with the hope it will be seen by locals as psionic/power tattoos.

I decided not to go the full Cyber-tech so as to give you space for that, my concern now is your heading my way with that side of your build. I have a small worry the GM may want to choose only one of use as we have similar builds now you have moved from machine-smith to Cryptic. That worry maybe miss-founded but it’s to be thought about.

To make clear Aaannra is a Bio-Mechanical, made to fit in as best a Super Smart AI with no experience of local 'So called magic' could come up with.

The Culture minds thinking being, they want her to be Culture but also fit it and not be spot-able V the god-likes and their agents.

The Remit of the culture is to muck about in less advanced Civilizations, with the aim of releasing them from any form of cultural bondage or enforced limits. [That is a gross simplification but you get the idea].

Their Interferes and have been doing it for 1000s of years, their Agents tend to be subtle and sneaky to say the lease. Aannraa is one such, a copy of a Bio Citizen with the skills and experienced needed for this task. She is limited in what she can do and how she can do it, there are rules for her outside of the game ones, that bind her to actions she can and can't take. I really like the idea of that.


Alexander is being fluffed out as being 'the wanderer'. It's his way of hiding his huge power as he searches for items of power and more power itself. Disguising himself and magic aura hiding his things from scans and the sort. He tries to show as little of his potential as possible appearing as a harmless wanderer for the most part and dressed in simple clothes.

Can a handy haversack be stored in a glove of storing?


HighonHolyWater wrote:
Can a handy haversack be stored in a glove of storing?

YIKES!!! Runs away from the Magic bags in a magic bags Debate that has just dropped on the Thread -------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ;>>>>>>

But saying that, as the glove of storing uses Shrink Item 1/4000 size shrink and not an extra Dimensional space of some kind. Then it should work fine. Not the handy haversack and glove will be detectable. Where as the objects in the handy haversack want be as they will be in an extra Dimensional space with in the haversack. You may want to look at pathfinder Pouch, that is not detectable.

I have one in each of my PCs Drones.


Might just get a portable hole as it can be folded into a handkerchief. And both glove and 'extra-dimensional-space-item' will have their aura's masked by magic aura so I think I'm good on the not being detected front. The gloves(yes it's one glove but there will be a look-alike non magical duplicate to complete the illusion) will be fashioned as old looking and fingerless, the type you might see on a old traveler or homeless person trying to keep warm. He is(or was?) venerable before he got level 20 and discovered the secret to immortality(wizard arcane discovery). Not sure if Immortality brings back youthful looks or if it just stops aging from then on.


It normally sates, in the means you gain immortality by. My PC is old, been waiting around years for all this to kick off. As an Elan and AI do's not age as such, that dos not mean she can't be killed. To her and her culture immortality just means Is not affected by normal organic ageing As just about anyone in her culture can renew their body or upload their mind-sate [Soul in local terms] to a SiM. Death by old age is a choice one can make.

With god likes to her they are just more durable not at all the dandelion sold to the locals as immortal and Unending. God-likes can very much end and in fact that is what she seeks.


Demon Lurking wrote:
Demon Lurking wrote:
I suddenly had a character idea for this. Sorry it's so late. What wealth would a Barbarian / Inquisitor have?
@Powergaming DM: I think you may have missed my question.

I said before 150%


Shady_Motives wrote:

Ok I'll clarify my question. I want to buy a couple of the Tomes +5 at 137.5k each. Do I just subtract them from my total or do I have to craft them/find them in game? Before we even start?

Just subtract them from your total. No crafting discount.


Yeah, my character is definitely a bit of a glass cannon. Admittedly he is toting around 400 hit points, but with only 34 AC and no miss-chance, its unlikely I'll be able keep that up for long.

If I upgrade my Celestial Armour to have a flat +5 AC, and grab myself a Ring of Protection +5, along with my Barkskin Extract, I can increase my AC all the up to a solid 46... which I can boost up a little further using the Dusty Rose Ion Stone.

There isn't really any feats that give me decent AC or DR really, which is a bit, as I do have a few feats I can change around with, but can't currently.

Still, doing all that costs 71k... if I drop the Holy on my main weapon, I can free up 32k, and dropping my Con Manual from +5 to +3 gives me an extra 55k to play with. So I should be able to afford it at the cost of a bit of damage as well as +1 Fort and 20 HP... would that be a worthy trade? Going from 34 AC to 47 AC in exchange for dropping Holy, 20HP and +1 to Fort? Seems worth it to me honestly...

Admittedly, there is a way I could buff it up further... The Slayer has quite a lot 3rd Party Talents. I could pick up Studied Defense/Defensive Study, either dropping Furious Focus or Dampen Presence in order to pick them up... plus, if I really need defence, I could go for the Investigator Talent of Studied Defence, through I really don't like the idea of giving up +10 to attack, even for an equal amount of defence...

Now that I mention it, if I do pick up one Slayer Talent and drop Dampen Presence, I might as well drop my Stealth Skill Focus as well... and Twist the Knife Looks like it could be incredible for a Crit-Fisher like myself...

Thoughts?

Grand Lodge

My AC is 46 and I was a trifle concerned. Of course, my real concern is what happens if I actually get hit. I have the HP of a six year old boy. Hopefully we'll have enough front-liners so my Wizard/Monk can stay in the back and cast without getting in the fray too often.

My other concern is Fort & Ref.

Unfortunately, I haven't posted any of my build on The Boards yet; it's all on scratch paper. But I'll try to get most of what I've done up soon for y'all to look at.

Grand Lodge

Rules question / Help:

Do different forms of DR stack?

I'll have DR 10/Chaotic and DR 2/-- ....How will that work?
And when(if) I cast Stoneskin, will that stack? How would that work?


I'm not sure he's going to allow 3rd party options like that.

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