Dawn of the material plane

Game Master fictionfan

Testing

Dot! Ready to lay waste to the planes!

You are all gathered today within a mordenkainen's magnificent mansion inside of a secret dark water and undead filled demiplane that is enchanted with Mage’s Private Sanctum. After scanning the area for invisible spys with true sight and casting glitter dust just in case there are invisible spys under mind blank. Then cast alarm at the entrance of the mansion to alert you if any spys of size Tiny or larger sneak in later.

With the primarily precautions out of the way the meeting can begin.

A heavily-armored skeletal figure stands on an island of ice in front of a shimmering square of light.
Several dark figures swim beneath the water that otherwise forms the rest of this demiplane you've all been invited to.

A nonhuman voice coldly echoes about the empty, cold place, sounding as if bones were being ground upon each other.

"Well, welcome, gentlemen, to my abode. Come, Ozil, as well as the rest of my guardians, await you inside."

A silver orb forms and expands, to form a force bubble. The space within shudders some some kind of impact like force rips anything inside to bits. Then two small objects form and rotate around scanning the area. They stop and move to equidistant points with in the bubble. A scintillating point forms and expands out into the form of a tall female like figure. It has on a simple uniform like suit of some kind. carry's no weapons or items other than a simple belt. The female form is literally brimming with energy, psionic energy. Her eyes seem to shine, her skin seems to sparkle, and her hair seems to be made of strands of black synthetic threads. Then it fades as if being pulled back into her, ending with a look like This

The Bubble then moves over to the undead lord of this realm.

::"Greetings Lord Ven'atorix we meet once more"::

Satisfied with the security precautions Alexander removes his cloak as if just entering a building and the protection from the weather is no longer needed. The cloak falls to the ground and dissolves like it never existed.

"Welcome received Graveknight." He also nods to Ozil and glances over the others but stays quiet and waits for another to begin the meeting proper.

with out looking at him Aannraa says to him.

::"Greetings Arch Alchemist Torov, it has been a long time"::

at the very same moment to Ozil
If Ozil is there then, if not letter

::"Greetings Ozil, I hope this decade finds you well"::

don't mind me, fly on the wall, just want to see what he does to you all

Tik appears in silent pulse of green light, and walks to the front. He speaks no words of greeting, and his facial expressions are unreadable to those unfamiliar with insectoid biology.

Inwardly, he is nervous and wary of meeting with these others, but curiosity wins out.

"When do we begin?" he asks once inside, voice strangely high pitched, though almost disturbingly normal for such a strange looking creature.

She moves out of the way as the insectoid comes past.

::"Tk-Chthik, as impatient as ever I see"::

"Time precious. Efficiency key. No time to waste. Important business to attend."

"The business is madness itself." A piece of topiary easily mistakable for a decorative tree speaks in a deep and distinctive voice that is clear and easily understood by all as if any so called language barrier was meaningless to such a creature.

"Two centuries ago even the thought of standing in the lair of an unnatural abomination on peaceful terms would be incalculable madness. Take but a moment, and appreciate the depth and broadness of this insanity and consider, for but a moment more, the meaning of the word omnipotence or the word forever. These are words both true and untrue in how it applies to our business."

"Even if we were to sit in ponderous debate for five minutes or five millenia for those who stand as wardens to this insane status quo it is but a speck of moist dust on the shores of infinity."

The tree shuddered a bit as it moved into something resembling more of a humanoid shape.

"The ultimate task before us lies not in simply erasing those guardians of the shore but ensuring none may rise from the waters of eternity to take their place. The solution itself is the ultimate simplicity encompassed into three simple words."

The tree paused as if to ensure everyone heard the next words and spoke them slowly so that each one would impact the mind with sufficient weight.

"Destroy. It. All."

"Nonsense. Oblivion not preferable to ignorance. If only barely."

"Displace, yes. Replace, maybe. Destroy, why?"

"Gods not at fault for being powerful. Mortals at fault for choosing worship over self-betterment."

As the walk and talk going inside, a seat of force forms and she sits on it, she works and talks at the same time.
Looks like this

::"You are both correct and wrong at the same time. Arkon, Fist of Ending nice to meet you again, and may I say one can not 'Destroy. It. All.' for all its a big word that encompasses the whole of time and space, the multiverse and beyond. So let us bring the term back the local inferrance shall we. What I think you meant to say is 'Destroy the edifice of godhood' and Tk-Chthik, lets not blame the victims for their enslavement shall we. How can one clime the wall if the wall itself keeps knocking you back down. At some point one must remove the wall to get free of the pit.::

Her words are claiming and soothing,

::"Let us keep perspective and find common ground. So I ask in all humility of you all, who here do's NOT agree, that the age of gods should come to an end."::

"Renewal cannot come without devastation. Some seeds might be saved for the renewal but great care must be taken to prevent the disease from rising again. Nothing of the old way can be left when all is said and done."

"I know precisely the meaning of my words. Were it not possible I would not even propose it."

::"My intent was not to offend you Arkon, you should know me better than that. It was to get down to the detail of our endeavor. The cluster of planes and world located in this Patton"::

And image is projected above the group showing the world they represent and the systems they inhabit. Suns moons planets. It rotates around slowly. Then a cluster of other images showing a representation of the outer plans. Finely and over lay of god-like beings linked to each with finely traced lines.

::"I have spent some years researching the relationships of God-likes to realms to worlds and demographic populations, as you can see its complicated. Are you suggesting Arkon we distory them all and find for ourselves god-like powers to re-craft a new set of made worlds with local cosmology and belief structures. Would that not just make us new gods. My feeling is the aim was to save the Seven plus Billion sentient life forms on the above worlds from god-likes. Or are you saying just that?"::

I'd look askance if there weren't orders of magnitude more people than that. There's seven billion just on Earth (which exists in the same universe as Golarion).

"Why such fixation on destruction? Illogical plan. Kill to save? Not how that works."

"Such widescale destruction possible? Yes. Desirable? Debatable."

"To remove boot from neck, one does not sever head. Makes no sense."

::"Well put Tk-Chthik, I could not agree more, distraction for its own sake has not meaning"::

She Moves the information display around, getting up she walks around it

::"Please to your time to view the information I have collated, I have a draft plan I would like you to look over and comment on."::

::"For stage one, I suggest we start with two factions, The Hells and Asmodeus and Elysium. My logic is this, We attack a highly prized location disguised as Devils. This will upset Elysium and also worry Asmodeus because his scyring will show the attacks as hidden. My hope is he will think its one of his own, on a power drive. We then pick an site used by the hells and attack that, disguised this time as agents of Elysium. With Elysium being a hotbed of hot heads it will not take much to get them hunting down and attacking Devils and there kin. We then see a another pear of pitted partys and repeat. Until stage one is underway fully"::

I am now away at meeting for the next 20 hours, talk the idea over guys, if you think its any good let me know.

"Then expand your perspectives. What is this talk of a neck or a boot or a mere seven billion versus infinity? What is worth saving? Do you deem yourself so wise as to act the farmer preening out the weeds from the wheat over a field that stretches towards a horizon without end? Would you wish our role to act as stewards over a diseased cosmos or the planters of a new way?"

Arkon shakes his head and shrugs.

"All. No more. No less. What comes after I merely intend to plant the seeds. I never intended to survive it. I too am merely a product of the rotting way. If you wish to take on the fruitless endeavor of doing so piecemeal so be it. There's time enough to learn. But do not expect things to change merely because you shut your eyes."

Ven has been a silent observer beside Veratha up until now, even through the insult as to his nature from the house plant, but finally he speaks.

"All of this talk of destruction and starting a war is perfectly fine, but do you really think Asmodeus would fall for that? Even Heaven itself has marched upon the gates of Hell, and still the Devils merely defended themselves."

At this point, he stands from the chair he was in, and paces over to one of the walls.

"No, starting a war is not the way to do this. We need to end the gods' influence and eliminate their cults on the material plane before confronting them. They must not receive power from this planes' people...or plants." he adds coldly towards Arkon.

Looking over the display that Aannraa had provided he is silent for a little while.

"That sounds like something the beast who is locked away would do. Perhaps you seek his release to aid you in this endeavour." Alexander finally speaks into the conversation having looked over the draft plan. "Certainly we must distract the gods if possible. I believe they are far too smart to fall into any trap we can currently prepare. This plan is a good start."

::"Sorry I was not clear, I was not remember suggesting starting a full out war, but creating points of conflict for the god-like with in them, so as to detract and weaken. So Ven'atorix, you wish us to skip stage one, and start with stage two, going for the means by which the gods gain power. For you and Torov, you both feel that we can't fool the gods at stage one, is that just in the way I suggested or do you feel we have no means to feel the gods. I would really like to know of any ways you feel we can fool them and under what circumstances and condition's? Then if as you seem to be suggesting we can't fool them from the moment we start hostility's then what actions we need to take with in stage two that would give us the needed reduction in god-like power. Do any others which to add comment or ideas. None of fools here and all views will be respected."::

Snook out of meetings to have send hehe and grab a bite to eat.

"Not just smart. Powerful Divination magic even available to mortals. Are we capable of fooling god-like magics? Unlikely."

"Double fault. Despite nature, Asmodeus one of the more trusted gods. Guards key to Rovagug. Painting him as villain easy. Starting war? Most difficult. May be better with less trusted target. Horsemen, maybe. Abyss easiest."

"Gods likely to investigate with Asmodeus. Remove all doubt before hasty actions. May be more likely to simply REACT based on signs of other targets moving. Not look as hard. Send mere mortal agents to confirm. Mortals can be fooled."

The model in front of them changes as parts and targets shift.

::"An interesting set of comments, I consed your point Tk-Chthik that Asmodeus may well seek the cooperation of other gods. Then I retract initial outline action for stage one. Tk-Chthik is suggesting that we start with a less trusted target. Horsemen, or an Abyss one. That we suggest moves and positioning of god-likes to each other, so that mortal agents would be used to investigate."::

"Well, isn't the Rough Beast just another god, with followers and a cult, that must be slain? Surely we can harness his power, or maybe even aim him in the right direction?"

"Good plan, if you prefer Arkon's method. Otherwise no. Rovagug probably hard to "aim". Harder to imprison. Impossible to destroy, even for gods. Why he was sealed, not killed."

"No potential outcomes desirable. If he succeeds in killing the gods, need to deal with him. Not likely. They re-seal him, no long term effect for plans. But, gods on higher alert. Bad. Lose-lose, I think."

::"Well we have done a lot of talking of what we can't do as a group, so shall we move onto what we can do. What dos each of us bring to this endeavor. Lord Ven'atorix has been so kind as to supply a save haven for our discussion. I may self bring information and a basic outline of a plan. I have other gifts. The most noticeable of which is the capacity to rewrite lesser minds so as to embed ideas in them. Where I am from we call it Memetic-Form manipulation. But one device I was thinking of crafting for stage two was to form an anti god cult, recruiting from the angry disenfranchised. So how about the rest, what tools do's our little cabal have to work with."::

"Perhaps I do agree with Arkon's methods. The mortals of that plane have become soft, reliant upon the will of the gods for survival. Radahoum, from my home planet, has forbidden the worship of gods, and instilled the Laws of Man. Perhaps we could use this Pure Legion to our benefit."

::"Well we have done a lot of talking of what we can't do as a group, so shall we move onto what we can do. What dos each of us bring to this endeavor. Lord Ven'atorix has been so kind as to supply a save haven for our discussion. I may self bring information and a basic outline of a plan. I have other gifts. The most noticeable of which is the capacity to rewrite lesser minds so as to embed ideas in them. Where I am from we call it Memetic-Form manipulation. But one device I was thinking of crafting for stage two was to form an anti god cult, recruiting from the angry disenfranchised. So how about the rest, what tools do's our little cabal have to work with."::

"Alchemical and psionic talent. Encyclopedic knowledge. Augmented form deceptively strong."

"Can dismantle or repair tools. Living or inorganic. Have been told I'm an asset when exploring."

"Lack higher level reality alteration power. Prefer to work small scale. More personal. Aids prevention of disconnection, like Arkon and Ven'Atorix."

"Many small scale changes add. Grow. Spread. Incremental changes cascade."

"Likely best for our purposes. Keeps deities from noticing until too late. May overlook small changes. Even large numbers."

as Sal Da Qill and Tk-Chthik talked so markers appeared within the data display she had is place one for each of them, showing there talents.

::"Thank you Tk-Chthik that is very conclusive and helpful. Would any of the others like to offer up what they have that can help with our aims?"::

"Mortals can be much easier to manipulate. If we were to spread a new religion, as it were, a different message. It could prove useful."

"A new life, masters of their own destiny. Their own chance to shine as bright as the gods."

"I was given a gift by the powers from ravenloft. Are they gods there? I don't know. For whatever reason I am free of the worries of what will await me in the next life. I wish others to be free of that too. First we must test their limits. Perhaps a lesser god, find ways to weaken them, what works, what doesn't. I hope no one here ages. This may take some time."

"I will aid with what wizardry and alchemical knowledge I possess. I can go many places unseen and find the most difficult of desired things."

::I was created over 10,000 years go before even the 'Divinity' attacked and laid wast to my creators origin planet. My creators are much older even than that, having long ago left that world and others to explore the greater cosmos. For of you here even know of the factions that lay out side in the great void. I know of some, and I know this, they tend to band into two core groups. The God-likes, factions, civilizations, cultures, races and individuates who seek a sublimed state of 'Metaphysical Sublimed state of god like being."::

A lot of maths now appear in her projections, them writing of holy books and scrolls.

::"Most like the 'Divinity' do this by means of faith from lesser life forms. In same cases crafting those lifeforms in others capturing or corrupting ones and bending them to there systems of empowerment."::

She brings up more data, showing some kind of crashed ship.

::"The other grouping are the free Anti-Sublimed group, a lose coalition of self-sustaining god-likes, factions, civilizations, cultures, races, groups and individuates who seek freedom form exploitation from god-likes who oppress lesser life forms. They see this exploitation for what it is. Parasitic feeding and suppression of lesser life forms with criminal intent to enslave them as food."::

A cluster of star systems and worlds come into being, names above them show them to be yours.

::"My Creators where one such group of self-sustaining god-like AIs. They out there in the multiverse stand by the view that ALL beings have the right to be more than they are, with out the suppression of greater beings, a view that 'might is not right'. Not all factions with in this counter god-like hold this view how ever, the Dominion of the Black for instance takes a far more radical approach. We may not always agree on the how, but most agree on the why. so our camp is wide and many have been freed. But there is a greater point to this anti-god view. It is this, god-likes that feed on lesser cultures, stagnate those very cultures. The last thing they wish is any host civilization to become inquisitive and questioning of the greater cosmos and try and lead is own evaluation say with scientific or magical study. They suppress and they control very tightly there food source."::

Again the image changes, showing images of gods, temples, statues, cult events and much more. Images surrounding them. Then they pull past them into a ball and 1st the Galaxy then Galactic cluster then cosmos is shown, they stand inside the light model of it.

::"What I have told and am showing you most outside this space do not know. The god-likes do, its a dirty little secret they keep unto themselves. They lie about a world origins, with their power rewrite history. Even as in the case of my creators origin planet wipe out life and remake it as a food source they can use. And be under NO illusion that is all you are and will ever be when burn on in the larder of a Divinity powered god-like. But they know there reach is limited, and other of equal power can limit them. Realms, planes, worlds, systems, Galaxies and whole parallel cosmos are beyond there reach and power. I think that some gods must lose sleep at night thinking just what is out the beyond even them to be honest. So do not fear the god-likes they are just one rung up the ladder then us nothing more than that."::

The images changes fades to a spinning ball of Golarion.

::"You talk of a new faith, now you know the setting, let us do just that, let us talk of Atheism or as it can be called Agnosticism, Atheism relative to this world in particolare is the view or rejection of the gods. Rather than outright disbelieving in gods whose existence is a matter of hard fact on world enslaved. The atheists on Golarion deny that the gods are truly divine and thus not deserving of worship or blind faith. Thus, atheists may be classed as dystheists or misotheists as a philosophy."[/b]

::[i]"My research has shown that while Atheism is looked down upon on many worlds, but there are still placed where it is excepted, example on Golarion, Atheism is enforced on a state level in the nations of Rahadoum in Garund, Touvette in the River Kingdoms and Bachuan in Tian Xia, Also a group of devils known as 'Deimaviggas' believe that atheism can be a tool to lead mortals away from the gods and into Hell's embrace."::

Image of some Devils.

::"What is of note is that some atheists such has ourselves have learned to power there metaphysical ability's via mind-over-matter mental techniques in the absence of divine magic. At the level of metaphysics technology and 'magic' can be interchangeable turns. For any technology suitable advanced would be seen as magic by a lesser developed culture."::

An Image of men with spears running away from a robot are shown.

::"What is most troubling is despite their rejection of faith, atheist souls, should they have one's, are still forced into an god crafted afterlife, belief in them or not, your still food. On Golarion there mind states are sent to be judged by the God Pharasma. Some becoming body-less 'spirits' in the 'Astral Plane', while others can reincarnated, most find their hellish fate in the Graveyard of Souls."::

The image changes showing a seen from the bone yard the dead all around.

::"I find this utterly abhorrent, unfair and unjust as I think you all do. Even so called 'Good' god-likes allow this to happen with seemingly with out much complaint. This lack of action in and of itself condemned's them""::

Now more text big letter "OCP"

::"So we want to end this, free the god-like enslaved and set minds. To do this we will have to craft a Outside Context Problem for the god-likes we are facing off to. Bear with me while I explain the idea. An Outside Context Problem or (OCP), is the kind of problem 'most civilizations would encounter just once, and which they tended to encounter rather in the same way a sentence encountered a full stop.' The problem with an "outside the context event" is its not generally not considered until it occurs, and the capacity to actually conceive of or consider the OCP in the first place may not be possible or very limited say the majority of the group's population may not have the knowledge or ability to realize that the OCP can arise, or assume it is extremely unlikely. For god-likes this may be hard but not impossible. I have all ready shown you they have limits."::

The images change to tell a story.

::"An example of OCP is an event in which a civilization does not consider the possibility that a much more technologically advanced society can exist, and then encounters one. The term is coined by Banks for the purpose of this novel, and described as follows"::

A short film plays out with a voice over.

"The usual example given to illustrate an Outside Context Problem was imagining you were a tribe on a largish, fertile island; you'd tamed the land, invented the wheel or writing or whatever, the neighbors were cooperative or enslaved but at any rate peaceful and you were busy raising temples to yourself with all the excess productive capacity you had, you were in a position of near-absolute power and control which your hallowed ancestors could hardly have dreamed of and the whole situation was just running along nicely like a canoe on wet grass... when suddenly this bristling lump of iron appears sailless and trailing steam in the bay and these guys carrying long funny-looking sticks come ashore and announce you've just been discovered, you're all subjects of the Emperor now, he's keen on presents called tax and these bright-eyed holy men would like a word with your priests."

It ends and she looks at the other.

::"We will craft and OCP event, by means we decide from this meeting. A ant god movement is one way but we will have to back it up with tech or bio tech that can counter divinity powers for its followers. We will also have to start this movement slowly and on a number of worlds at the same time."::

There she stops and looks at them to hear what they think.

Sorry for the odd spelling mishap, and grammar problems. Just re read it and spotted them, was in a rush at work.

She added at the end.

::"If we are to Atheism factions on each of the worlds we are seeking to liberate, then please of any of you know of them please pass on that information now along with your talents"::

Standing in her data field, her drones by her side she waits on the others.

In any situation where such powerful beings gather, it is easy for one such as Ozil to be misplaced. Four feet two inches, "human," decked with the magical items one associates with a powerful wizard -- nothing outstanding in a group such as this.

In this case though, Ozil wasn't deliberately being left out, his mind was just wandering; it was as if he didn't really care about participating in the meeting up until now, or creating a rapport with the august assemblage -- he just passively looked off in the distance, seeing through the walls of the Sanctum, perhaps observing the details of this Demi Plane and its shadows and fog and ice and dark creatures, swimming alone in the depths.

Or maybe he was just lost in thought about finally taking action against his Father. Something that makes all sons pause before the plunge, but seems never to prevent it.

.

Ozil finally steps forward after his reverie, apparently having heard the discourse in full, even if he didn't listen to it until just now -- as though his ears were working, putting the dialog on hold until he was ready for his mind to listen to the words.

It may sound odd coming from me, but I don't think we should start attacking the Powers of Hell early in our campaign. Ven'atorix is right, Asmodeus is too smart for us to fool and his wars are endless anyway -- one more will not weaken him; it will just alert him to our actions.

.... Arkon, we have not yet met though I guess you may have heard of me as I have heard of you, The Fist of Ending. May I ask, you call for the destruction of all, no more no less: What would you suggest our First step should be?

I like "Stage Two" of the AI's plan, very much like my own plan -- but of course creating a diversion (such as a war in the Outer Planes) so that our actions can go unnoticed.

Yet I feel strongly that we should start "small" -- let us choose one Alignment of The Outer Planes to campaign against first. Begin to convince those mortals of a new alignment or religion that sends their souls not to an Aligned Outer Plane but back to their Prime Material Plane, memories and personality intact, so they may resume their lives and not spend eternity as a Lemure in an unknown layer of the universe.
.... And of course, lay false evidence that one of those gods' enemies is doing this, not us. Start a that kind of war to keep the gods from finding out about us.

"Your work is narrow." Arkon says. "You merely focus on the divine as if they are the only source of outward strife. Even should you remove the gods you still must contest with other less powerful but far more numerous entities. The Daelkyr, the Astradaemons, the soul farmers of the positive energy plane, the dragon kings of Athas, even the Quori. All these beings care not for the existence of the gods. An atheist soul is equally delectable to an astradaemon as a pious one. The Daelkyr never once questioned my faith as they unleashed their flesh twisting monstrosities upon my world. The dragon kings revel in an atheistic world, all the more so that they can gather worship for themselves. Their are more than a few gods that function perfectly fine without a stream of souls. Would this Rough Beast care that you denied him worshipers?"

"If you create a world of god rejecters what purpose would that serve? What would be the next step?"

Ven'atorix is right, Asmodeus is too smart for us to fool and his wars are endless anyway -- one more will not weaken him; it will just alert him to our actions.[/b]

=( No respect.

"Your work is narrow." Arkon says. "You merely focus on the divine as if they are the only source of outward strife. Even should you remove the gods you still must contest with other less powerful but far more numerous entities. The Daelkyr, the Astradaemons, the soul farmers of the positive energy plane, the dragon kings of Athas, even the Quori. All these beings care not for the existence of the gods. An atheist soul is equally delectable to an astradaemon as a pious one. The Daelkyr never once questioned my faith as they unleashed their flesh twisting monstrosities upon my world. The dragon kings revel in an atheistic world, all the more so that they can gather worship for themselves. Their are more than a few gods that function perfectly fine without a stream of souls. Would this Rough Beast care that you denied him worshipers?"

"If you create a world of god rejecters what purpose would that serve? What would be the next step?"

"Goal not to solve myriad problems of universe. Goal is to free mortals from shackles. Let them decide own fate. Lesser entities can be defended against. halted. Killed. Gods supposedly omnipotent. Hence why no one challenges power. We show everyone gods can be challenged, the idea takes hold from there."

"Other threats can be fought. Fools will continue to worship what they will, but that's the way of the world. We give them a choice, no more."

"Worship or die, not choice. Worship or freedom, is."

"We would be no better than the gods if we follow your plan. No choice for all mortals. Merely die by our whims. The whims of a few with power. Familiar sounding, yes?"

You make a valid point, of course, Fist of Ending.
But yes it would indeed serve our purpose. If many mortal souls who serve the gods of NE Abaddon were to no longer serve them -- if their souls no longer travel to the hell of the Yugoloths (or Daemons as you may call them) -- the Yugoloths will lose some of their power.

Charon will become weaker.
Trelmarixian will become weaker.
It is a start -- not, as you point out, a destination.

Ozil wrote:

Ven'atorix is right, Asmodeus is too smart for us to fool and his wars are endless anyway -- one more will not weaken him; it will just alert him to our actions.[/b]

=( No respect.

Arkon, Fist of Ending wrote:

"Your work is narrow." Arkon says. "You merely focus on the divine as if they are the only source of outward strife. Even should you remove the gods you still must contest with other less powerful but far more numerous entities. The Daelkyr, the Astradaemons, the soul farmers of the positive energy plane, the dragon kings of Athas, even the Quori. All these beings care not for the existence of the gods. An atheist soul is equally delectable to an astradaemon as a pious one. The Daelkyr never once questioned my faith as they unleashed their flesh twisting monstrosities upon my world. The dragon kings revel in an atheistic world, all the more so that they can gather worship for themselves. Their are more than a few gods that function perfectly fine without a stream of souls. Would this Rough Beast care that you denied him worshipers?"

"If you create a world of god rejecters what purpose would that serve? What would be the next step?"

"Goal not to solve myriad problems of universe. Goal is to free mortals from shackles. Let them decide own fate. Lesser entities can be defended against. halted. Killed. Gods supposedly omnipotent. Hence why no one challenges power. We show everyone gods can be challenged, the idea takes hold from there."

"Other threats can be fought. Fools will continue to worship what they will, but that's the way of the world. We give them a choice, no more."

"Worship or die, not choice. Worship or freedom, is."

"We would be no better than the gods if we follow your plan. No choice for all mortals. Merely die by our whims. The whims of a few with power. Familiar sounding, yes?"

"All things are considered gods to a lesser being. And beings challenge the gods power all the time. Otherwise there'd be no dead gods no?"

"The difference is that a God holds power, demands worship, makes commandments. What I propose is merely the cleansing of flame. But, we are already past this. I cooperate for now purely because I am patient. I have meditated and fought for centuries on this question. A few more will make no difference."

"I am stating that you wish to war against things you are failing to understand. Not every god requires worshipers. Many would be just as happy if you weakened their enemies. Some would be empowered by this rejection. Does god of knowledge become weak because you expand the base upon which his world draws? Does a god of war become less puissant when you create conflict?"

Arkon spreads his arms giving the impression of a growing tree. "It is the way of nature for balance even among those who believe themselves outside of it. What becomes weak makes another strong. What dies becomes fuel for life. How do you deny sustenance to the scavengers of your prey's corpse? Will you fight the things that rise up to take their place forever? You cannot upset the balance of the cosmos without consequence."

"So, you create worlds where people reject the gods. Some gods are now weak, some are now strong. Others are unchanged. Other beings move in to fill the gaps. Souls still travel unbidden to their destinations. What then?"

Regarding something the two of you were speaking of earlier, Ven'atorix and Tk-Chthik, on the release of Rovagug -- whatever we do I think it would be quite funny to, at some point, release both The Rough Beast of Golarion and Tharizdun of Greyhawk and let them fight each other.

Not that it would be a good idea or help us in any way -- just that it would be quite funny.

@Aannraa

"The resources I bring to whatever plan we may decide upon are vast. I have unmatched martial skills, as well as divine power granted from the act of war itself, not any of the gods. I have many undead allies, as you can see, and can draw many more from those we kill. I do not care what course of action we take, as Ozil and the rest must simply point Despair in the right direction for slaughter."

@rest of meeting

The undead lord of this sanctum seems bored at the debate taking place around him, and in fact returns to his seat next to Veratha.

"You may squabble over what plans you may. Someone pick one, and let us get started on dragging the heavens down."

She stands still while the others talk, still as only a synthetic can.
She had slipped into a faster time frame, her mind layers passing information to each other, now as as Ven'atorix asks they just pick a course of action, again the Image changes. Showing data that each but two has supplied on there skill set.

::"Thank you Ven'atorix for that information, Ozil is it nice to meet you once gain, could I ask that you and Arkon supply me the requested data I asked for, it will help with calculating plan options."::

The field of data around them changed to an image of a forest.

::"Now before we carry on I think I need to head off a possible point of contention in our group. Arkon I think we can all agree we now we get the point your wish some form of ethnic cleansing and destruction. My feeling is you hold a strong naturalistic philosophy perspective based on a idea that natural laws are the rules that govern the structure and behavior of the natural universe, that the changing universe at every stage is a product of these laws. You have indicated such with what you have said so far. 'The cleansing by flame.' and and 'It is the way of nature for balance even among those who believe themselves outside of it.' I fully understand the origins of your world view, as a plant it is logical you would hold them. A simplistic view that all is nature. But take a long hard look at me Arkon. You would agree would you not that I am any thing but 'Natural' I was crafted, constructed, I was as powerful on the day I became self-aware as I was as I am now. I have not changed that much in over 10,000 years. Yet I would agree with you that even I have undergone Evaluations and growth. It is true that most things in the Cosmos do."::

The Image around them changes to a formal garden.

::"But the beings we seek to unseat from power, have no interest in allowing nature of any form of evaluation into there food change. You argument for staving the gods is to lay-wast to there food source, but I can tell you, no in fact I can show you that they can and do, lay wast to their domination's and just as fast restock them. To beat them we need to have in place a new philosophy with the strength repulse them and have them at such a point they are to weak to fight it. Once that philosophy is in place it will have the strength to stand up to any self-Sustaining God-likes as well. This is a conflict of hearts and minds Arkon, one will not win it of one seeks to destroy the very thing we seek to empower, do I make myself clear."::

The image changes to a withered and burn garden.

::" The hard truth of your view is this, We could not restock the worlds with souls as fast as the god-likes and so we would lose before we even started. So let us hear no talk of wiping the slate clean with fire and death shall we. Harts and minds Arkon remember that, Harts and minds will win us this war, nothing less will do."::

She looks at the big tree.

The image changes to a garden with with life full of children playing.
To one side is a teacher a teacher living a lesson in science.

she holds the image for them to see, then it fades.

its replaced with a view of the Daemons realm.

::"Ozil your suggestion is interesting, my initial plan has conflict between gods as stage one, it was felt by others that, this ruse de guerre would not work. That it would be uncovered. The feeling was we could not fool the gods. What now make you think we can in the way you suggested? ad would it be possible to switch stages one and two, so that the forming of a new faith comes before our actions to get god v god and weakened? Because I am leaning toward that option now"::

Arkon shakes his head. "I will not waste anymore words on this. You continue to misrepresent my position. You do not understand it. All. Everything. Not one at a time. But all at once. But enough. It is like arguing the color of the sky with a cave fish."

"I asked a simple question. What next? Or are you assuming you'll have the power that there doesn't need to be a next? Indeed what power would you possess over innumerable gods?"

She takes on a conciliatory tone

::"Arkon, you don't need to attack me, I am here to help. We can all see you frustration about this matter. What we are discussing here is means to remove the hold God have over mortals. A god-like that keeps itself to its self and is not our concern. Only the ones that have influence here and now are our concern. Suggestions have been made as to how to deal with them, good suggestions that need looking into. Our 1st steps need to be ganged ones. We must not show our hand to soon. While we have been talking I have had parts of my mind working out stratagems based on the comments made so far. Case in point."::

The image changes to a man, he sits on a simple thrown of wood and animal furs. A Barbarian king. text comes up around him.

Name: Kevoth-Kul, throne 'Black Sovereign' of Numeria (Person)
Titles: Black Sovereign
Alignment: Chaotic to neutral
Race/Species: Human (Sub type Kellid)
Culture Barbarian
Gender Male
Homeland: Starfall, Numeria
Organization: Black Horses

::"This is Kevoth-Kul hes the absolute ruler—the Black Sovereign—of the strange, barbarian land of Numeria. A former tribal leader, he now rules his land from his capital of Starfall, supported by the Technic League. I placed in his mind the drive to become this, just as I have worked over the years to shape the Technic League that support him."::

Images of the Technic League.

::"He is one of a number of sleepers I have in place, that I can use as points of origin for hes worlds anti god faith. A seed point if you like. Each of you must know of others. Arkon you have listed groups who have nothing to do with gods, ask yourself what would it take for you or us to encourage them to expand that view into the grater world. Could you trick, fool, convince, persuade, pressurize any one of those groups into spreading. I am convinced that each of us can do the same. Ozil what would it take for you to get the group of atheism devils known as 'Deimaviggas' to expand and push out there influence. Ven'atorix what undead lord or groups want nothing of the gods, hate the gods, seek to remove them, can you gain control of that group? Tk-Chthik the same, what god hating or god unbeliving group could you control. I know with a little work I can control Kevoth-Kul and the Technic League. I can offer them something, as Ozil suggested, a means to have souls reincarnate after death, Blank Android body's will take the souls. All the Technic League lack is a Android forge and I know how to make them. There must be means for you to do the same. Arkon reincarnation is at the core of your naturalistic world view. What if we could offer it as a reword for faith, Death is just re birth. Ozil what of you did the same, souls would spend and sort time in a non god hell then back to the prime for another life and another go. All three ways I have talked about keep souls on the prime. The outer planes cut out the loop. Then when we deem right we move on the gods v agents or ourselves or both. What are your views?"::

She waits again.

Did everyone but me take Leadership or something? If not, the answer to "what groups do we control" is none.

Yes, Aannraa Sal Da Qill, that is the plan I have wanted from the beginning. Only I think if we start by dividing our numbers, each of us focusing on a different area, we will have less success and more possibility of discovery from the gods.

If we pick an area on a Prime Material world devoted to an Alignment and focus there first, with our concentrated effort, we may begin to see results.

Let us choose where to begin.

Rahadoum may be a good first choice. No single deity is likely to be focusing on the mortals there. We tell them that, despite their hatred of the gods, when they die their souls still go to an Outer Plane based on their Alignment. Then we can tell them of a new possibility, the one where they come back to the Prime, memory and personality intact.

All we have to do is figure out how to make that work!

And I yet think it wise, as we talk to them, to pretend to be something other than who we are, perhaps agents of Abaddon, so when the Powers of Axis question why souls of Rahadoum are not trickling down to their Plane, they will hopefully think it is the fault of the Yugoloths (whom you may call Daemons) -- and not see it is really us.

I didn't take Leadership, but I have created undead and can command/create more as needed.

I did not take Leadership.
.
.
.
Aannraa Sal Da Qill, as for my assets well, I have few compared to the rest of you: I am indeed a powerful Wizard but my true strength is in Knowledge. I have studied Planar Cosmology, Religious doctrine, Nature and ontology, the arcane, mortal history and epistemology my entire life, almost to the exclusion of anything else -- even magic. I am bold enough to say this: My Knowledge of the Cosmology significantly surpasses even those among you here who are considered among the greatest scholars of the Multiverse.

Unfortunately, the truth is that all that knowledge, when combined with four pieces of copper, will get me a mug of ale at The Fickle Mermaid in the Docks in Absalom.

But if you have a question that requires research or scholarship, one that you haven't learned the truth of -- I can answer it.

She waits while Ozil talk through his idea.

::"Thank you Ozil for that explanation, Ozil has offered us a variation based on switching stages one and two. Suggesting concentration of our talents on one endeavor and jest."::

The images start to change to Rahadoum and the related subjects they are now talking about.

::"My view on this is, will it take us all to do this and will all of use have a use in it. A single starting point for restricting faith tho arguable safer may also dilute us and and any revelation at this paint of our aims will sink us. But counter to that is that more then one head working on a single problem my work better. As a test case it may also be wise to utilize Ozil's variation of the plan. What are the views of the group?"::

I think a bigger question is, how do we get souls to come back to the Prime Material after they die -- to return (mayhaps through reincarnation) with memory and personality in tact.

If our plan is to preach it, we'd better figure out how to deliver it.