Witch - Hex Offense - Spell Utility

Talked to a guy over the weekend who is getting upset because his wizard always seems to have the wrong spells memorized.

If he takes a few different kinds of offensive and defensive spells, then he doesn't have enough left over for any utility spells and he ends up needing the utility spells more than the combat.
If he takes some utility and a limited number of offensive/defensive spells they are either boring (magic missile and shield) or wrong for what we encounter.

Yes, he is still low level as yet. But he is getting too frustrated with the character to stick with him until higher levels. And to be honest, I've seen alot of the same thing even with medium level wizards.

So what he is talking about is a witch. He still wants to be primarily a caster. Then he could use mostly just hexes for combat and have his spells for utility. He wanted to know if this was likely to work better.

I've only seen 1 witch in play, so I couldn't really answer him. What do you guys think?

Well I am have gone 1-4 with a witch character, and I can say you certainly can rely mostly on your hexes to contribute in combat. Particularly with the extra hex feat early on. My witch only occassionally uses his spells, and mostly just uses slumber, evil eye and the healing hex. It certainly helps with the resource management of casters thats for sure.

I haven't got any real experience with the witch, but I wonder if another possible solution for him would be a spontaneous caster. That way, while his per-level choices matter a lot, he doesn't have to worry about picking the wrong spells for a given day. And it's much easier to advise the player on sensible (and flexible) spells known choices than on good spells to prepare for today without breaking immersion.

Other possible steps are to have some more information as to what might be coming today, so as to prep more correctly for the day (though this is awkward in most cases), or to acquire some items that extend his flexibility; these being largely wands, scrolls, and even pearls of power.

At a fast skim, I don't see a lot of offensive variety on the hex list. Seems like he'd be using the same couple very heavily, and some of those are easily shut off by enemy types.

Guess I should have mentioned, this is for PFS. But I'm not sure that affects the question much other than to aknowledge no crafting and ends approx level 11.

I don't know the guy real well. It sounded to me like he would like to be a utility mage, but feels like he has to contribute significantly in a fight since you don't know who will be with you. He said he doesn't like the spontaneous casters "they just don't know enough spells" was his comment. Personally, I love them.

I will say that in many of the PFS games I've played, I didn't feel like the intro as given provided me with any significant amount of warning to know what was coming. At least not enough to influence my spell selection.

I make that statement with 3 caveats.
1) The one that was full of traps was pretty clear that it would be.
2) The ones where there has been a significant number of undead, we could always tell because it was haunted, grave, abandoned cult temple, etc...
3) I haven't quite started to GM PFS (later this summer) so I haven't red the scenarios myself. However, I have been told that some of them have decent info that has been skimped on because of time pressure or that our group didn't find due to poor gathering of info.

I am currently playing a witch - just reached 7th lvl. One bad thing about the Witch is if he wants to use Utility spells then the witch is definitely NOT the class he should choose. The Witch is missing 90% of the utility spells that a wizard has. He would have to be very good at Use Device & buy alot of wizard scrolls....hoping he makes the check.

Yes you can use Hexes...but many of them only get one chance per opponent. If they pass their Will save, then that opponent is IMMUNE for 24 hours to that hex....exception is Evil Eye where you can other penalties.

Spamming the same hex over and over gets very boring.

MY suggestion is he goes wizard and invest in wands/scrolls if he wants more utility.

Also if there is undead/constructs/oozes as opponents, the witch wont be good against them as many of the hexes are mind-effecting.

Fortune and Evil Eye would be the only ones he could use.

He will also be very disappointed when spellbooks are found as loot as many of the spells found will not be able to be used by him.

ALso many of the hexes are evil related or just plain suck....all the archtypes except the Frost Witch also are crap.

I think the Witch class would be much better with more Hex choices (especially if good alighned), better archtypes & more utility spells.

I am thinking of retiring my witch cause it does have alot of limitations.

Yeah, I was just spending some time going through the PRD on witches. Hexes and feats for them don't seem to bad. Probably not many that will actually take out an opponent, but will make things rough on them.

Hex:
Slumber
Misfortune
Evil eye
Cackle
Beast of Ill-Omen

Major Hex:
Agony
Retribution
Hoarfrost
Ice Tomb

Feats like:
Accursed Hex
Spell Hex
Split Hex
Extra Hex

But then I started looking over the spell list. The do have some pretty decent utility spells. Comprehend languages, detect secret doors, etc... But not nearly as many as I thought they would have. If I see him in a couple weeks, I will bring that up with him.

After a few sessions of "well, I prepped entirely the wrong set of spells", I like spontaneous casters quite a bit (though I also like the giant bag of brains that my wizard is). But the tradeoff, of course, is that you need to put a ton of thought into your spell selection.

In this case, I think his best options are probably a combination of a few steps:

1. Assuming it's available in PFS, take the Fast Study discovery as soon as possible. Take advantage of this by leaving some spell slots open every day. (Fast Study isn't essential, but stopping for 1 minute is easier than stopping for 15.) And it can be used both to prep an obscure spell, or to replenish combat spells that have been used up already. With Fast Study, I think it's no big deal to convince a party to wait a minute or two after combat (while they loot the corpses, he flips open a spellbook).

2. Invest in a couple of combat wands; magic missile, scorching ray, so on; relatively big bang for their buck spells. Control spells are often not ideal for wands due to the lower DC. Likewise invest in some scrolls and a couple of pearls of power; basically, anything to extend his spells per day. This reduces the need to prepare the same spells multiple times per day.

3. Invest, to the degree feasible, in both knowledge skills and information-gathering skills. Aside from knowledge, this isn't going to be amazing, but just making a point of asking questions during the briefing phase, and asking other party members to use their skills can help.

Does he know that Wizards can leave spell slots open and spend ~15 minutes to memorize them as needed?

Yes, he left 1 of his 3 first level slots open. When we had a few minutes he prep'd a grease. And the last fight was something that wouldn't be affected by it.
He was only able to get 1 creature in the AoA of the sleep spell and it was only affected for a single round before it was woke up.
He also had charm person prep'd and the wasn't a single thing to charm there.

I don't think he is going to keep the wiz long enough to buy the items suggested. He sounded really frustrated. A comment was after 5 scenarios he has gotten more use out of his light crossbow (which he usually misses when using) than all of his 1st level spells combined. He also said almost every faction mission is to convince someone of something without letting anyone else know. Since he dumped charisma he has also failed most of his faction missions.

Even without fast study, leaving a spell slot open at each level is an excellent idea to improve your flexibility. I do that on my cleric and use it more often than not to get just the right spell for the situation. This really helps on the utility side.

Some metagamey things I've done when prepping spells for a PFS scenario are:
- Look the scenario up on the Pazo Website and read the blurb. Sometimes that gives you some hints that aren't even in the mission briefing, look at Among the Living for an example.

- Find out what kind of characters you're playing with. Is it a combat heavy party? Head over towards the buff and utility spells. 2 rogues and a bard? Pack some control and damage spells.

- Use your skills for utility, not just spells. You've got a ton of int and therefore an above average number of skill points. Rather than buff every knowledge skill up to +25, spread out and pick up a few ranks of linguistics for extra languages, disable device to assist the rogue, slight of hand because sometimes you just need to make a check, heal to scoop out that brain for a faction mission, etc. You won't be a full skill monkey, but you can assist and fill in better than if you didn't train anything like the fighter.

- Pick up scrolls of the really edge case spells (the ones that will amazingly save the day... once every dozen sessions or so.) Pick up a couple utility wands, magic missile at least lets you contribute to combat and you might be surprised when it's the most effective offense againse a certain enemy. You're less equipment dependant than other classes, so you should spend some of that cash on consumables.

Low levels for dedicated casters is pretty brutal. Until you start getting more wands and spell slots you need to improvise , its why I get summon monster around level 3 so they have a bit of duration in a fight , or use a crossbow against unengaged enemies

I love playing Witches, but I tend to do it backwards from most people -- I get utility Hexes and then use spells for combat.

So a typical group of Hexes that I would get:

Healing
Prehensile Hair
Tongues
Flight
Disguise

Now I'm prepared for lots of different circumstances. It's also worth noting that none of these hexes have DCs associated with them -- they either work or they don't. Which also frees you up to multiclass if you wish, since you don't have to worry about gimping all your hexes by doing so.

Can the hex water Lung be used on a enemy?

Yes, he left 1 of his 3 first level slots open. When we had a few minutes he prep'd a grease. And the last fight was something that wouldn't be affected by it.

He was only able to get 1 creature in the AoA of the sleep spell and it was only affected for a single round before it was woke up.
He also had charm person prep'd and the wasn't a single thing to charm there.

I don't think he is going to keep the wiz long enough to buy the items suggested. He sounded really frustrated. A comment was after 5 scenarios he has gotten more use out of his light crossbow (which he usually misses when using) than all of his 1st level spells combined. He also said almost every faction mission is to convince someone of something without letting anyone else know. Since he dumped charisma he has also failed most of his faction missions.

First, if this is PFS, he needs to buy a wand of magic missile for 2 PP and then use that for the early levels. That will act as a dedicated filler in combat. It won't hit as hard as a light crossbow, but it will absolutely hit in early levels before shield spell use becomes common place. That constant 1d4+1 is pretty solid for a good while.

Second, it sounds like he's going heavy enchantment. That's a rough road, and I know this since my wizard is an enchanter. Unless he wants to run into this problem regularly (what PFS scenario doesn't have some undead, constructs, or plants?) he should diversify his spell list a bit. It's impossible to prep for every contingency and you will have slots go unused. A strategy I employ is try to have a good mix of spells that affect opponents and allies. That way even if your offensive / control spells prepped are inappropriate for the fight, you can throw a buff to an ally and then revert to filler. At level 1, Enlarge Person is usually a decent choice as there's bound to be at least one front-liner who would appreciate it. Magic weapon, while not sexy, is also a reasonable thing to put on your friends weapons to contribute in a fight.

Third, prepared casting is hard. But wizards get a lot of spells per day; so many that if you're doing it smart you probably won't run out during a session. If flexibility is an issue, I recommend he have an arcane bond. That once per day pull from the book is huge. My spontaneous caster (a psychic) has way fewer spells known, and a lot of spells per day in each slot, but regularly taps out during a session because the spells I have are so generically useful that they almost always can be used. Entering combat is like going in with a script -- I know what I'm going to do and what order I'm going to cast. The wizard, in contrast, is more like going in and making it work on the fly with what you've got.

Without turning this into a spontaneous / prepared caster debate, it really does sound like he would prefer spontaneous casting. There are plenty of classes that can and get a lot of spells known and there are also a lot of items like scrolls and mnemonic vestments (even the new neutered ones) that can help offset. I think he'll probably get bored with relying too heavily on witch hexes (which, btw, many of which also suffer inability to affect mind-affecting immune creatures). The witch spell list is also quirky and narrow and many not provide the versatility he's looking for in the utility role.

An option you might want to consider is the Arcanist. The ability to swap spells known on the fly is pretty powerful. He'd end up with fewer spells per day (but on par with a witch in most cases), but those spells would be more powerful usually thanks to the arcane pool and the fact that you know they'd be relevant. Depending on exploit selection, you can also have a few hex-lite alternatives to use as filler.