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DM-Tareth's Modified Kingmaker Campaign

Game Master Tareth


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Ooh, that is not quite as good.


Elf Paladin 2

@Warren: Pffft. Way to look a gift horse in the mouth :P It'll certainly make a difference for Tityanna!

If there are no objections, I'd rather discuss prisoner handling here rather than via IC dialogue. I think all of our characters have made our positions on the matter clear... let's move on to some table talk.

Thad's plan for prisoners or those with questionable backgrounds who show up and ask for asylum is to use detect evil to see if they are under the effect of the sort of spells we saw on the bandit leader and worg, then speak with them to get a sense of whether they seem earnest about reforming. If they make it past his first-line BS screening they'd have their chance to address the community and state their case and ask for a chance to prove themselves changed. As far as having them swear an oath then letting them go, the only one of this lot who Thad would extend that offer to is the one who voluntarily surrendered. In general he's against might-makes-right trial by combat, but a rite of passage fight/thrashing of some sort could certainly have its place. Another consideration is that some of the bandits may already be skilled at a trade.

I'd rather err on the side of Stupid-Good than Lawful-Stupid with Thad, but I'm still feeling out some bits of his past and personality and figuring out where stands on various ethical issues.


Female Human Sorceress (Fey) 1/ Oracle (Life) 1

OOC Tityanna learned everything she needed to when she talked with them earlier. They were not ignorant that they were harming people when they did, but found it easier to simply go along with their officer.

To her, it's going to be quite a plea for her to accept them coming along and posing a danger to the Fulton children and Ursula.

This is where having an inquisitor would be an amazing boon for this group, I think. Minor healing would be available, but also the brand ability and detect spells, too...

Edit

As for the charm, Tityanna has not invested any ranks in UMD. Better for someone like Warren or Stephanus to carry it, because it's just a command word to activate.

Taldor

Male Human (Taldan) Bard (Archivist) 1

As a charm, that makes its use like a wand, correct? I think Warren can use it without a roll, and I will be able to do so when we advance a level. Besides, as a red-blooded Taldan, Stephanus isn't entirely sure that a charm blessed by Saranrae would work right for him.

As to the crime and punishment thing, Stephanus is the kind of guy that wants the problem to go away. He's both unwilling to be executioner and loathe to let the men go. Turning them over to Oleg's for imprisonment until they could be transported to Brevoy might be okay, depending on what Oleg's is like.

Perhaps men to press into the army is actually an asset Brevoy would be interested in? Maybe the bandits we capture in the Stolen Lands are an asset if handled the right way.


Elf Paladin 2

Oooh! It's a gang of -spoiler-. I love those monsters! I've used -spoiler- as a GM, but this is my first time meeting them as a player...


Male Human Ranger

Why are these prisoners really causing such conseternation? I have an idea that might help.

If we spend say an hour or so, total, in game time, dealing with the prisoners, questioning, judging, evaluataing, I think we as a group should have a fair idea of whether or not we can trust each prisoner enough to offer them a shot at redemption, release them to the wilds unarmored and unarmed, or put them to death.

Mechanics:
Sense Motive allows for a "Hunch", to determine if someone is dependable, trustworthy, or you just get a bad vibe from them. With the DM's approval, we each question a prisoner, alone, for ten minutes. Three prisoners, six players, one hour in total. Five of us make Aid Another rolls, going for the gut reaction. This would be a Sense Motive check vs the prisoner's Bluff check. Take 10 or rolled at DM's choice. I've done both; Take 10 would be quicker, but then the DM could autoroll based upon our stats Those that score an assist will add 2 points to whomever in the group seems most likely to be the best "judge" of character. In both game stats and play style, I believe this has been Aliana. After all, she did befriend Kams and Yori :) Thad would be a viable second choice, as a Paladin and former bandit, though his desire to simply release them makes Kams nervous. Whomever will instead make a Sense Motive check, modified by our Aid Another bonuses, about the viability of each character. Should this player beat the DM's modified "Hunch" DC, we should have a good idea if a candidate is likely to learn his lesson and turn over a new leaf, or present a danger to the group and settlers.

Just a thought, I've done it in the past for players that hate to roleplay interrogations and lengthy interviews. I'll never again play a murder mystery mod with only two roleplayers, the rest rollers.

Sense Motive Stats:

Tityanna +1, Aliana +8, Kams +2, Stephanus +0, Thad +5 vs Bandits, Warren +2. I think I have these right based upon online sheets.

What say ye all?


Very good points raised by Kams. My discussion is primarily in RP terms, which has been stellar so far, led by the best NPC depth from any DM I have seen on these boards yet.

Warren is somewhat out of his element--he just wants the threat minimized to his 'new herd' that he must shepherd. Although Aliana statwise is best equipped, this is one of those things that RP wise normally go to the paladin. Thad's insight into bandits due to his background would be given strong weight. As a protector of the weak, he will not allow the bandits to get off lightly.

This is a time where banditry is dealt with in Wild West fashion. Being caught doing banditry is an immediate death sentence. We have a charter to do what we want. Also, traditionally leaders get most of the punishment--common rabble could often be roused to fight for almost anyone at times. Forced labor is a viable option, it will help get the settlement started and will allow us to see who is suited to toil on the land, and who is truly averse to hard work.

Finally, having saved the bandit leader from a truly evil force is an opportunity that shouldn't be squandered. Some of these men should be salvageable--maybe even the leader who owes us personally for his life.

IMHO if Warren detects evil or senses evasion = immediate death sentence. If they pass that test they should be working to redeem themselves if we can do so safely.


Elf Paladin 2

Keep in mind that in the Pathfinder ruleset, detect evil only shows an evil aura for a 'normal' person if they are level 5 or higher, or a cleric or an aligned outsider/undead/dragon. Thad's reaction to this group is based in both on his own history and on his (admittedly limited) interaction with the bandits so far:

Quote:

"If'in I had a choice miss, I'd surely turn to the straight an' narrow. But it's not as if there's any other way to live in these parts. Either you're one of them's that's on the side of 'is Lordship or you're one of 'is victims."

-----
Based on your earlier sense motive attempt, all three seemed sincere in their desire to change. This is even more true after the incident with the charm.

Thad would certainly be agreeable to a sentence of forced labor, as long as it is about atonement rather than punishment. He would also be willing to work in the fields with them, acting as their jailer and mentor.

As much as I hate his writing, Terry Goodkind has captured some of what is going on in our situation when describing the fight against the old world/imperial order in the Sword of Truth series. Most of the bad guys aren't committed to evil, it's just that their only choice has been between victim or villain. Thad's offering them a chance to play the hero...


Female Human Sorceress (Fey) 1/ Oracle (Life) 1

yeah, it's evil that can affect the world. The average warrior 1 can be pretty evil in a small locale, but he's not going to affect the balance of good vs. evil over all like, say a cleric of the same level would, since they are actively promoting their god's portfolio in the prime material.


Male Human Ranger

I do apologize, it seems I have not quite satisfactorily explained the nature of the service provided under a year and a day. The sentence of servitude, commonly, is meant to be a term of atonement for crimes committed, ie punishment, and for the repayment of loses incurred as a result of those crimes. Yes, some peoples may have used it as a form of forced labor, slavery, or worse, but I assumed that our group, and the settlers we lead, were beyond such pettiness.

These men have not had the influences yet to show them the way to redemption. They only know that the strong take from the weak, that honor is held on the edge of a blade, and that they had a choice, predator or prey. What we and the settlers need to teach them, is that banded together, as friends, family, and community, the prey will beat the predator, and achieve prosperity and freedom. The things they themselves wrestle from others through violence. Their pretty words, while faced by force, are much like those of victims, offers to buy their lives and safety. We need to let deeds match words, let them earn the pardon. We can put them to work, at the forge, at the counter, or in the fields of these settlers, to learn a trade, to earn a place amongst the free peoples of the Greenbelt.

On a side note, do we have a name for the future kingdom? The Greenrealm, New Rostland, Narlmarch, The Beltlands? All hail Kams Redcloak, emissary of the Barony of New Rostland.


Female Human Sorceress (Fey) 1/ Oracle (Life) 1

Well, Tityanna's position is that the bandits are hardly stupid. They band together like bullies to prey upon the weak and isolated. That's not something that they are really forced into. They have what? maybe one occifer that's leadin' em around by the nose, and they were five with bows. You mean to tell me that those five couldn't have thought to themselves in one instance that "Hey, if we gang up on this ONE isolated dude, we can get away from this."

Granted, where would they go when they have alienated the population. Harder thing. But why should we expect that the guys they've been robbing for years are just going to accept that because us upstarts show up and say "these guys are all right," that it's going to make their animosity and grievances less? Bandits don't till the land, or raise livestock. Jeb the farmer has been working hard every day putting food on the table his wife keeps for him and his sons and daughters, and those bandit jerks come and mess everything up.

The River Kingdoms is CN. Among its six laws, you have what you are strong enough to defend. What is the model for our kingdom going to be? We defend you some of the times, and let bandits set up houses next to you and offer you no choice in the matter?

It's a very complex issue that's not going to be solved by us coming to even a unanimous decision, because like all codex, it cannot be static, or we run the risk of becoming oppressors.


Male Human

Posting for the dot. Don't look at me!

Qadira

Male Simian druid 12, poo-slinger 3, gator fan 3

My apologies fellow gamers. This weekend we are filled to the brim with a youth soccer tourney. I will try to squeeze in a post today between games and a bday party!

Holy weekend from hell!


I am sleeping through all this cool stuff :-(


Female Human Sorceress (Fey) 1/ Oracle (Life) 1

Heh, sorry for taking so long, guys, just generally assume everyone wakes when the sun comes up and we can talk about it then.

Qadira

Male Simian druid 12, poo-slinger 3, gator fan 3

Tareth I'm on vacation next week. Should have connectivity in the evenings but I'll definitely be out the next 36 hours. Traveling in the DC area with the offspring.


Male Human Ranger

What is the range from us to the attackers? Kams will sound the horn either as soon as the attackers notice our band or within roughly 120' of the attackers, to give them little time to prepare against the horse charge. Kams will charge his mount at any target he suspects of directing the ram project.

BTW, Kams selected Thad and Tityanna as they had been wounded in the last skirmish, and he was unsure of their current condition. That would leave Warren, Aliana, and Stephanus to provide cover I believe.

Up for suggestions, it's just Kams is more of action, foes are on the field, lives are threatened, and he REALLY hates bandits.


Range is still about a half mile. As far as you can tell, they haven't even noticed you yet. So you do have a little time to plan if you want. I'll have a tactical map up tomorrow morning.


Elf Paladin 2

I was out of communication for a while due to some travel for work that kept me busier than I thought it would. Catching up on all my overdue posts now, sorry for the delay!

Thad is definitely riding forward.

BTW, does anyone mind if I use the composite longbow we took from the bandits? I couldn't afford the extra 100gp for my starting equipment...


This is a fight the slow druid with a scimitar can miss.


Elf Paladin 2
Quote:
Stephanus - ???

It looks like Stephanus's vacation is keeping him busier than he expected... should we move on with the GM controlling him for the first round, or wait?


If we don't here from him or Alaina tonight, I'll move things along tomorrow morning posting for them.


Running to the fight I think of Lancelot running in the distance in Monty Python and the Holy Grail while the sentries seem unconcerned at the door :-)

Qadira

Male Simian druid 12, poo-slinger 3, gator fan 3

Sorry teamies. We've been getting back exhausted, and of course I forgot to bring the charger for my laptop, so this machine could go out at any moment... :)

I will drop a post directly. I won't be back in the fold for good and all until sometime Saturday. Thanks for covering for me.


Sorry as well. This is turning out to be an insanely busy week here, and tomorrow will be no exception. Feel free to dm pc Aliana if things are being held up. I will drop in a short round one action before bed.


Elf Paladin 2
Quote:
Yes, 2 Range Increments to the bandits around the ram. For those with Comp. Longbows as well.

Is it in the 2nd range increment, resulting in a -2 to hit? Or is it in the 3rd range increment giving -4? It looked like it would be within 220' so I only took -2 with Thad, but Stephanus gave himself -4 to hit...


Thad: Stephanus' crossbow has a shorter range (80'), so his is definitely -4 as the distance was just under 200'. Your's would have been -2. Sorry I didn't realize you already subtracted the -2 from your roll, so you would have hit with the 14. I'll address it in the final round one post.


Just an FYI for those who haven't been able to post over the weekend or today/tonight. I plan to bump things forward tomorrow morning and move to round two.


Female Human Sorceress (Fey) 1/ Oracle (Life) 1

uh, yeah... i gotta get Tityanna running for the hills, i think? ah well, I will post and you'll tell me if it happens or no, i am sure :P


Elf Paladin 2

I'm spreading the word to all of my discussion threads... there's a 'werewolf' forum game kicking off on Sunday and we could always use a few more players/victims. You can check it out here.


Male Human Ranger

Would the potentially fleeing bandit pass in a direction Kams would be able to intercept?


Kams: He's heading the opposite direction from the you and the NPC's. Trying to escape south into the woods beyond the outpost.


Male Human Ranger

DM, Kams' Perception score vs Humans is +8, Track +9 vs Humans. Should I roll for his results, can he Take 10, take 20, how much time would it take to check the south and western approaches to the fort? It is unlikely someone was posted to watch from the east, if so, I'd like to think our stealthy combatants might have spotted them.

Basically, as mentioned in the post, Kams wants to make sure where the bandits came from, the numbers that rode out to attack the fort, and if anyone escaped unnoticed.


Female Human Sorceress (Fey) 1/ Oracle (Life) 1

Out of curiosity, how does Kams know that Tityanna is noble born? She has not given her full name to anyone save Donal thus far.


Kams: You can roll or take a 20 is this situation. The difference being how much time you spend. If you take a 20, I'll assume it takes quite a bit longer as you will be much more complete in your search. If you wish to roll, it will take less time but there is always the chance that you might miss something depending on the roll.

I'm assuming your are doing a fairly wide circuit, perhaps a half-mile or so out in each direction. If you take a 20, it will take a full hour to cover each direction, so a total of two hours. If you roll it would be half that so just an hour to do the total search.


Everyone gets an additional 300XP for the encounter outside of the fort.


That puts me at 1500 total (are we fast, medium, or slow?).


Warren: Medium advancement. Also, it looks like you missed 100XP somewhere along the line. According to my count you should be at 1600.:)


Male Human Ranger
Tityanna Medvyed wrote:
Out of curiosity, how does Kams know that Tityanna is noble born? She has not given her full name to anyone save Donal thus far.

Actually, Kams assumes you, Thad, Aliana, and Stephanus are either nobility or upper class. The only one he views as close to his own station is Warren, being more rustic like himself. Plus, Tityanna's protests about command structure, organization, permission to act, etc., just strikes his simpler approach to combat as more "noble." Much of this may be unintentional, but as only Warren, Aliana, and Stephanus have had much interaction with Kams, he has only his views from afar to go by. Tityanna has spent time being waited on by Donal. Courtship perhaps to you close to the situation, or maybe "right of station" to Kams who hasn't been involved in any conversations or interplay. Thad of course is a holy knight of Erastil, and thus, by all the fairy tales standards, therefore a noble or upper class personage to his thinking.

No insult was intended and if taken, I do apologize, on Kams' behalf at least, as he remains unawares.


Male Human Ranger
DM - Tareth wrote:

Kams: You can roll or take a 20 is this situation. The difference being how much time you spend. If you take a 20, I'll assume it takes quite a bit longer as you will be much more complete in your search. If you wish to roll, it will take less time but there is always the chance that you might miss something depending on the roll.

I'm assuming your are doing a fairly wide circuit, perhaps a half-mile or so out in each direction. If you take a 20, it will take a full hour to cover each direction, so a total of two hours. If you roll it would be half that so just an hour to do the total search.

If the time is available, Kams will take two to three hours to scour first the southern, then western, and lastly northern approaches to Oleg's. He will then return to camp and report his findings to the group. If not enough time exists to hit all three, Kams will take 20 to the south, and 10 to the west, north, and east, if possible.


Kams: The group arrived at Oleg's in the evening. Since it's early in the year, I'd say you have about an hour of actual daylight left, with twilight to follow. It is clear, and there is a half moon so that could also provide some light if you wish to stay out longer.


Male Human Ranger

Kams will take 20 on the southern approach, as I assume the bandits' tracks lead there. He will then take 10 on the western approach, before the light fades too much, and head in for the evening.


Female Human Sorceress (Fey) 1/ Oracle (Life) 1
Kams Redcloak wrote:


Actually, Kams assumes you, Thad, Aliana, and Stephanus are either nobility or upper class. The only one he views as close to his own station is Warren, being more rustic like himself. Plus, Tityanna's protests about command structure, organization, permission to act, etc., just strikes his simpler approach to combat as more "noble." Much of this may be unintentional, but as only Warren, Aliana, and Stephanus have had much interaction with Kams, he has only his views from afar to go by.

Yeah, playing a lawful character sucks sometimes... But, if I had my fey blooded sorc know exactly where her magic comes from and act like a crazed fey lady from the very beginning, that wouldn't be very fun for me in terms of character development, either.

Kams Redcloak wrote:


Tityanna has spent time being waited on by Donal. Courtship perhaps to you close to the situation, or maybe "right of station" to Kams who hasn't been involved in any conversations or interplay. Thad of course is a holy knight of Erastil, and thus, by all the fairy tales standards, therefore a noble or upper class personage to his thinking.

Last time I played her, I had her asking the ranger and inquisitor about survival type stuff. But Kams is kind of a rogue element, which is off putting to her lawful bent. I think once we get to exploring as a smaller group, it should clear itself up.

I like the description of Donal waiting on her, though. Haha, huge ulfen blacksmith waiting on a teenaged girl. He's mah butler :P


Male Human Ranger

Kams is lawful as well, beholding to a personal code of honor, duty, and country. He holds to his word, serves the needs of the community as Erastil directs, and believes in right and wrong more than good and evil. Both of the latter have their uses, but tend to become detrimental when weighed against the needs of the people. Everyone has their role to play, both in the community and to one another. His role, as he sees it, is to expand the boundaries of the community, to save the people from the dangers opposing them, and to guide them to a better way of life, as Erastil should decide it that is. Rulership should be as communal as possible, with those Erastil deems shepherds leading the way, most preferably, by example.

He's not really a rogue, though quite pragmatic about his actions and deeds. He is in no way evil, and would become quite cross to be accused of such, as he feels those that prey on others are the truly evil ones, rams leading sheep to the wolves such as it is.


Female Human Sorceress (Fey) 1/ Oracle (Life) 1

yes, but flavors of lawful don't really interact all that well sometimes, too.

Believe me, last group Tityanna was in party with a LG Paladin of Ragatheil, LG Inquisitor of Torag and LG Sorc... three VERY different interpretations of ORDER and GOOD.

Our paladin of Ragathiel near beat one of our bandit captives to death right in front of Tityanna for the mere suggestion that he had raped once. Tityanna and Kams can do good cop/bad cop. That paladin (which I thought was very well played) decided that he was Judge Dredd.

And yeah, her ORDER is very influenced by the court at the moment, but... again, without a direction to go, creating a character is no fun. :)

Qadira

Male Simian druid 12, poo-slinger 3, gator fan 3

Tareth, I want to apologize for being such a spotty poster recently. I'm past the rough patch that was keeping me away from the game and am catching up tonight.


Female Human Housewife/1

I think we're a decent enough group to RP the interrogation/trial without trying to kill each other.

but i would like to know what thad intends, at least a brief OOC. last game tityanna was in, the paladin backhanded the guy she was very calmly talking to, breaking his teeth, then intimidated him and made him piss his pants. It was not an experience I recall fondly.


Male Human Ranger

As Kams has stated previously, he has no qualms with executing the guilty for the crimes they commit; btw bandits are not his favorite people. That said, I think the questioning, interrogation, and trial should be RP'd, at least for the most part. Should it bog down, or the DM feel it loses productive value, then by all means hand wave whatever is deemed appropriate.

As to the trial, Kams would prefer to follow the will of Erastil, god of the community. It should be the people, both those in the fort and our own wards, that should be put to task either to volunteer as a small six person jury, and decide the fate of these and future detainees, or they should vote to appoint a communal judge, trial prosecutor, and counselor for the accused.

Kams is up to filling any role the group deems necessary, from guard on up.


Elf Paladin 2

OOC, here's how I see the trial going. My thought was to call up the one that Cal pointed out first (providing Thad's impression of the man was the same) and read the charges against him. We'd have three witnesses of the battle go through the formality of testifying that he was indeed the one they'd seen attacking the fort in an act of banditry, then ask the assembled crowd if there were any who would speak in his defense. At the (presumed) silence, he could be convicted to death by hanging in accordance with the authority granted us by the charter. The sentence would be carried out immediately.

Next we'd call Cal to stand trial and read the charges. We would testify that he attacked us at the river crossing and ask if anyone would speak in his defense. Thad would speak for him saying that he surrendered of his own will, he'd given us information about the bandit leader and her camp, he hadn't attempted to escape or deny responsibility for his actions, and he seemed willing to swear service to Brevoy, make amends, and pay penance for his crimes. We could then have him swear to service for a year and a day, and do the same for the remaining prisoners.

@Tityanna: Thad is definitely not that kind of paladin. We had already won the loyalty of the bandits from the river crossing, part of the interrogation would be putting them in with the new crew and giving them time to tell the story of Thad defeating the amulet that enforced 'the oath' (though not quite being able to save the man), their good treatment, and the party's competence. After that we'd just talk with them. Most prisoners are eager to talk, and most of an interrogator's job is just to listen and ask the right questions.


Female Human Sorceress (Fey) 1/ Oracle (Life) 1

i'm cool with Kam's proposed approach. Tityanna will act in defense of the bandits, because she has the charisma and the stones to hold out being unpopular for a few moments, and believes that everyone should have that representation.

And I think that the bulk of us follow Erastil, in one way or another.

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