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DM Talomyr's Council of Thieves (Inactive)

Game Master Talomyr

A resistance rises in order to stop injustices in the former Chelish capitol, Westcrown.


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HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6
DM Talomyr wrote:

DM Talomyr gathers many obscure and illicit ingredients and begins to mix them together in a small caldron in a attempt to cast the fabled spell, raise campaign....

How about it folks? I actually have time to run the game again. So the question I pose to you is are you at all still interested?

Definitely (ou might have guessed from my bumps)


Male Halfling Alchemist : 4

Hello there,

It is with a heavy heart that I must tender my resignation from this game.

I have had a death in the family recently, and I have to take some significant time to deal with the outcome of this both emotionally, and with its impact on my life.

Thank you all for such a great game, and I wish you all a great game.

Thank you once again,

Wart

Taldor

Male

Really sorry to hear that Wart- my sympathies to you and your family.

*e-hug*

Cheliax

You have my sympathies, my friend. Take care, hope to see you around sometime soon.

Shadow Lodge

AK:
Alex, where is a good place to go to get a fair amount of maptools generic tokens, like the ones you have been using for the skeletons in you Serpent's Skull game. I'm going to have to switch to maptools for the knot, simply because of all the odd ball shapes. Thanks


Your Humble Narrator

Tun'ada:

Link

Start there ^

Shadow Lodge

DM Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Thanks!


Should we update to 5th level yet, or wait to see if we survive the night?

Planning to take Addie's next level in Witch. Are spells from Ultimate Magic available? I was thinking that Skinsend could be useful.

Cheliax

No attacks in the "night", go ahead and advance to level 5. You guys need it.

Any Paizo (Pathfinder) product is fair game.


Female Human (Varisian) Witch (Hedge Witch) 2 {HP 14/14; AC 12, T 11, FF 11; F+2 R+1 W+5; Init+2 Perc+4} {Effects: none}

Sweet! Thanks!

Taking next level as Witch, so Addie is now a Witch 4/Bard 1.

Rolling for HP: 1d6 ⇒ 5 plus CON = 6 hp for a total of 34 hp.

Think I'll take the "Add one spell from the witch spell list to the witch's familiar (one level below the highest you can cast)" for my favored class bonus - Beguiling Gift looks intriguing.

Level 5 feat will likely be Extra Hex - not sure which one yet.

7 Skill points to allocate.

+1 to BAB and Will save.

New Hex learned.

Bonus Patron spell: Invisibility.

2 New Spells added to His Lordship - Skinsend, TBD


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

Strange, these last 3 posts never showed up for me. Will get levelling asap.


HP: 44 /44; 0 non-lethal AC 19; touch 14; flat-footed 16 Fort: +5; Reflex: +5; Will: -1

Leveling soon as well. Level will be in rogue. Feat Power Attack. Nothing else decided at the moment, though there's not much to the level beyond the extra 1d6 sneak attack (or substitute it for giving sickened condition, which is also nice).


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

1d8 ⇒ 6 (9HP gained)

Feat: Heavy Armour Proficiency

Gained Discern Lies (5 rounds per day)

Gained Bane (5 rounds per day)

+1 second level spell known (Death Knell)

7 skill points-

Perception:
Sense Motive:
Survival:
Kno (Arcana):
Kno (Religion):
Kno (Dungeoneering):
Stealth


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

Changes made.

Cheliax

Once I have confirmation that all four of you are leveled up, we will move on.


HP: 44 /44; 0 non-lethal AC 19; touch 14; flat-footed 16 Fort: +5; Reflex: +5; Will: -1

Hit points: 1d8 ⇒ 6

I went with Extra Rage rather than Power Attack. He's updated and ready to resume.


Female Human (Varisian) Witch (Hedge Witch) 2 {HP 14/14; AC 12, T 11, FF 11; F+2 R+1 W+5; Init+2 Perc+4} {Effects: none}

Addie is updated.


Male Human Cleric 5 / Inheritor's Crusader 1

Back from holiday and leveling up now... should have it done this morning.


Male Human Cleric 5 / Inheritor's Crusader 1

Level 5 Summary
HP: Gain 1d8+1Con+1Favored
Spells: 3rd: Gain 1+1(cha)+1(domain)
BAB/Saves: No Change
Channel: Up to 3d6
Skills: Gain 2(cleric) +1(human): +1 Diplomacy, +1 Spellcraft, +1 Heal
Feat: Alignment Channel (evil outsider)

Spells Prayed Next Day:
0 (4): Detect Magic, Guidance, Light, Virtue
1 (4+1D): Magic Weapon(X2), Protection from Evil, Cause Fear, Shield of Faith(D)
2 (3+1D): Lesser Restoration(X3), Heat Metal(D)
3 (2+1D): Dispel Magic, Searing Light(D), Summon Monster III

HP Roll: 1d8 ⇒ 8


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

Note to self- get armour spikes fitted on full plate.


Heads up that I'm going to be away until Sunday. Might be able to post once or twice, but not much more.

Cheliax

No problem. Thanks for the heads up. :)

Cheliax

It will be interesting to see how you guys do with this battle. When I ran this one in my RL game, the party didn't fair to well.


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

Its my gf's birthday today and I expect the celebrations will continue until tomorrow. Don't be alarmed if I am a little scarce for a couple of days. Bot me as necessary.


HP: 44 /44; 0 non-lethal AC 19; touch 14; flat-footed 16 Fort: +5; Reflex: +5; Will: -1

Thanks, Morghrim, but Jev's build is pretty fear intensive as it is. I'm considering taking a level of fighter just to get power attack and cornugon smash sooner.


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

Fair enough :). I haven't actually got Morghrim's next feat planned out yet myself.


HP: 44 /44; 0 non-lethal AC 19; touch 14; flat-footed 16 Fort: +5; Reflex: +5; Will: -1

Concerning the remove curse part, we could try Addie's scroll tonight before resting. That way, Valeron might not need to use up both his thirds for the day. If the scroll works, of course. It's the same caster level.

Cheliax

That would seem to be a reasonable plan.


Male Human Cleric 5 / Inheritor's Crusader 1

Crud, I forgot it's a caster level check to remove curses and diseases.

Since they both need to be cast within 1 minute of each other, it's a gamble that Addie and Valeron will both make the caster level checks.

I kind of feel like using all the 3rd level slots is almost necessary insurance in case a caster level check fails.

The question is, one of each spell, or two of remove disease (which is arguable more useful if we make both caster level checks).


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

This fight is pretty brutal even with the group's Dwarf rolling 20's like nobody's business.

That cheque I sent to the Paizo staff team was definitely worth it.


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

I know hes not the rules guy, but I also asked JJ to confirm- Link

Shadow Lodge

Extreme dissatisfaction with part of how pin works will be leading to a house ruling for Book 3 and beyond.

Grapple all you like, but in order to pin a creature you must be its size or larger. Just doesn't make sense to me otherwise.

I don't imagine that this will break too many peoples hearts, as no one is playing a grapple monkey.


HP: 44 /44; 0 non-lethal AC 19; touch 14; flat-footed 16 Fort: +5; Reflex: +5; Will: -1

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but 14 hits this thing?

Shadow Lodge

That's what I get for posting while I'm trying to get out the door. Thanks.

Post fixed.


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6
Talomyr wrote:

Extreme dissatisfaction with part of how pin works will be leading to a house ruling for Book 3 and beyond.

Grapple all you like, but in order to pin a creature you must be its size or larger. Just doesn't make sense to me otherwise.

I don't imagine that this will break too many peoples hearts, as no one is playing a grapple monkey.

Pretty much. Its not something Morghrim would ever initiate but escaping the grapple and backing off would likely have killed him.

No problems with the house rule. Sorry if I was a pain, its just the entire point of the pin was really to not get full attacked (and make the devil trade an action for one of mine).


Male Human Cleric 5 / Inheritor's Crusader 1
Talomyr wrote:

Extreme dissatisfaction with part of how pin works will be leading to a house ruling for Book 3 and beyond.

Grapple all you like, but in order to pin a creature you must be its size or larger. Just doesn't make sense to me otherwise.

I don't imagine that this will break too many peoples hearts, as no one is playing a grapple monkey.

I was kind of shocked to consider Morg pinning an otyugh, too.

The only problem with this house rule is that is would rule out some things that might actually make sense. Take a "halfling Hercules" if you will - with a massive 32 Strength. This house rule would mean he'd be unable to hold down a medium-sized frail old woman with an 8 strength.

Given it's CMB vs CMD, and that BAB, Strength AND size all factor into it... doesn't it make it highly improbable that you'd be unable to pin someone unless you really were their physical superior (or had the luck of the Gods with a bunch of natural 20s?)

Shadow Lodge

Something that I may revisit someday, but as there are no "halfling Hercules" in the group, I will stick with what I have said.


Female Human (Varisian) Witch (Hedge Witch) 2 {HP 14/14; AC 12, T 11, FF 11; F+2 R+1 W+5; Init+2 Perc+4} {Effects: none}

I could see someone of Medium size grappling (and pinning) one of the Outcast King's tentacles. However, I could only see pinning the entire creature if the person grappling is also Large size.


Male Human Cleric 5 / Inheritor's Crusader 1

I'm always up for house rules, and my interest in this is more due to considering house rules for my own games, rather than any personal interest in any of our PCs becoming wrestlers.

Here's a real life example... real men today actually wrestle and pin large crocodiles. They aren't super-human or heroic - they're fairly strong though (maybe a 16 or 18 Strength in game mechanic terms).

A large crocodile has a CMD of 18 and a +11 grapple, so it's no lightweight against the Human expert3 or Human commoner3 that's wrestling it.

To suggest it's completely impossible for a medium human to grapple and pin a large crocodile seems a bit heavy handed.

In my mind, it should be hard but not impossible.

Let's take a strong human who wants to pin this crocodile and see what is required.

The human expert 3 has a +1 BAB and +4 from his Strength (let's call him one of the strongest men in the country at 18 Str), so his CMB is +5 and his CMD is 17 (I'll give him a 14 Dex too).

This means he'd need to...

Roll a 13+ (35% chance) to grapple the croc.

Then avoid the croc becoming the primary grappler (30% chance as the croc has a 70% chance to do so)

Then roll a 13+ (35%) chance to complete the pin.

This gives our strong-man less than a 4% chance to actually pin a crocodile. Arguably, he'd need some feats (like Improved Grapple) to really do this as a career in the back waters...

Anyway, just thinking out loud. Grappling something larger than you is really really hard, but I'm not sure it makes sense to house rule it to 0%.

However I'm all for some monsters having a trait "cannot be pinned by a creature smaller than it". You'd think you'd want a crocodile to have this trait, yet small men pin them in our real world today.

Shadow Lodge

It's something we can revisit later perhaps, but right now I would prefer to focus on what will be your last fight in Book 2 of CoT.


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

Absolutely. Anyway thats probably the ONLY time one of us will be attempting a pin on something larger so its mostly moot anyway...


Male Human Cleric 5 / Inheritor's Crusader 1

No worries - not like Valeron's got any hope of pinning the Outcast King.

I bring it more up to foster an interesting OOC discussion between all of us GMs - I have no concerns with the CoT game having this house rule, it literally will have zero effect on my character's actions.

I've had a couple times in my tabletop game in the past year where a PC unexpectedly grappled and pinned something larger than them and did the GM groan when they happened.

First case was a hulked out alchemist pinned a CMD21 owlbear.

Second case a raging barbarian pinned a CMD22 troll.

In both cases, it was two good rolls (13+) by the player and a bad roll by the GM (6-) that enabled the pin.

While both felt improbable, they didn't feel impossible given the mutagen/rage enabling them.

I thought about a house rule about 2+ size categories of difference, but then looking at the CMDs - a level ~10 PC pinning a CR9 T-Rex (CMD39) is already impossible without reality-bending magic.

A raging Karthas should totally be able to pin an injured troll. :)

Shadow Lodge

Valeron Legis wrote:
A raging Karthas should totally be able to pin an injured troll. :)

*laughs* I see how you are. Try and use one of my own characters against me. No matter, he'd rather hack it to bits with his greatsword anyway ;)


Male Human Cleric 5 / Inheritor's Crusader 1
Talomyr wrote:
*laughs* I see how you are. Try and use one of my own characters against me. No matter, he'd rather hack it to bits with his greatsword anyway ;)

LOL. I just needed some distractions from work today and this topic came along at the right (wrong?) time.

My 3 active PCs on the forums are a gnome, a druid and a cleric - so I need to live vicariously through the half-orcs you guys are playing for the grapple/pin examples.

I will admit - with Valeron being grappled and feeling like death was imminent, after seeing the power of grappling/pinning, I'd totally consider a PC with Improved Grapple.

However it looks like Kevorin now gets a shot to reverse the hold.

You know if were were a tabletop group shooting the bull after our game, the tales of Morghrim and Kevorin pinning a fiendish otyugh king would live on in legends forever, and what more could you want as a GM than to be the genesis for such storied battles?


Male Human Cleric 5 / Inheritor's Crusader 1

On another note (since I insist on being distracted from work)...

Valeron's the first and only Pathfinder cleric that I've ever played.

Pretty much every cleric I played or GM'd prior to Valeron took "Selective Channeling" which is obviously one of the best feats a 1st cleric can take (beyond Scribe Scroll).

I wanted to buck the trend that Selective Channeling was "mandatory for clerics" (effectively a feat tax on the class).

I do apologize to Morg, Addie and Kev that Valeron DOESN'T have this feat - I did want to see through play how much it would come up if I relegated Valeron's channeling to out-of-combat, damaging or useful only when the foes were out of range or already fully healed.

It's been a mixed bag. I took Alignment Channel thinking there would be lots of evil outsiders (I regret not being able to AoE down the 3 lemures while everyone else focused on the King in the first round) and to see how it felt against Selective Channeling.

Anyway, feel free to change the topic away from pinning to selective channeling. :)


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

I do think Selective Channeling is overrated anyway. Careful positioning can usually minimise enemies receiving healing and spending an action to channel gets worse and worse from level 5 or so onwards anyway.

Its far more compulsory for the bad touch cleric.


HP: 44 /44; 0 non-lethal AC 19; touch 14; flat-footed 16 Fort: +5; Reflex: +5; Will: -1

At this point, without at least 7 points of healing, Kev will die before the round is out. If it ends up healing the King a bit, that's not so bad. On the other hand, even if Valeron does save Kev with some healing, the King is likely going to kill him anyway, so it's probably a moot point, unless somehow Kev and Morghrim managed to hurt it enough to kill it, in which case a cure moderate will be enough to save him.


HP 53/53, AC- 21, Flat-Footed- 19, Touch- 12 CMD 19, Fort- +9, Reflex- +6, Will- +10, Perception- +13, Init- +5, AOO- +9 (1d10+6), Judgement 2/2, Bane 6/6

Morghrim's strike bypasses DR and did a decent amount of damage. I'm hopeful his blow took it down.

Taldor

Male

Isn't 51 damage enough to kill Kevorin outright? 34HP, 10 con, death threshold 44 points of damage. While raging, +10 to that for 54... He has no way to continue rage once he drops unconscious so will die the moment rage ends. Doesn't ferocity mean he falls as soon as he makes his attack, or does he get to stand until the beginning of his action next round?


Male Human Cleric 5 / Inheritor's Crusader 1
Kevorin wrote:
At this point, without at least 7 points of healing, Kev will die before the round is out. If it ends up healing the King a bit, that's not so bad. On the other hand, even if Valeron does save Kev with some healing, the King is likely going to kill him anyway, so it's probably a moot point, unless somehow Kev and Morghrim managed to hurt it enough to kill it, in which case a cure moderate will be enough to save him.

Might make sense to metagame here a little.

Valeron's options include:

1) Channel positive energy to heal everyone. +3d6 to everyone (including the Outcast King). Will heal 11-12 HP on average but could do as little as +3HP.

2) Move close to Kevorin and Cure Light Wounds. He has no 3rd or 2nd level spots available to spontaneously cast (just a 2nd level Heat Metal domain spell which can't be used to spontaneously cure barring a house-rule otherwise). This means 1d8+5 and will heal 9-10HP on average. I *think* if he 5ft steps, he won't have to cast this defensively. On the bright side it's at least +6HP.

3) Channel positive energy to harm the Outcast King. This will likely do 11-12HP or 5-6HP of damage (depending on the Will save that Tal keeps making).

Cure Light seems like the best shot to save Kevorin? He also has to make the Caster Level check right for the Infernal Wounds?

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