DM Pendin Fust Wrath of the Righteous - Group A (Inactive)

Game Master theheadkase


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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Thom. wrote:
What are the group's thoughts on picking up another couple of Wands of CLW? Could be good for keeping momentum between fights and conserving our "on demand" resources.

Fine with me. We spent our whole time budget this time around, but in the future Lucius can assist Thom in recharging the empty wands.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Assuming, of course, that Lucius isn't halfway done with some bigger project, since you can't have more than one item going at a time.

And that will only get more common: Magic item costs only go up, and you can't bump the DC to go faster more than the once.


WotR - A | Drezen | WotR - B | Righteous Medals

So I'm going to assume you all have access to all the stuff available for Mass Combat with the army's stats.

The NPC's may or may not have anything interesting to say once I catch up on the gameplay!


Yah, all that stuff is on both the Paizo PRD and the PFSRD site. So we can get to at least most of it, I'd think.


Ross Byers wrote:
Thom. wrote:
What are the group's thoughts on picking up another couple of Wands of CLW? Could be good for keeping momentum between fights and conserving our "on demand" resources.
Fine with me. We spent our whole time budget this time around, but in the future Lucius can assist Thom in recharging the empty wands.

Turook also has 520g he can contribute.


WotR - A | Drezen | WotR - B | Righteous Medals

Also, I'm going to correct myself on the DV and OM.

Aron Kir imparts a +1 to DV because of his skill at tactics.

Nurah Dendiwhar imparts a +1 to OM because of her skills at bolstering courage and lightening spirits.

Sosiel Vaenic gives a +1 to its Morale because of his faith and his inspiring attitude.


I forgot to ask about horses. Did you guys buy mounts, or were they supplied with the army?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Lekku wrote:
I forgot to ask about horses. Did you guys buy mounts, or were they supplied with the army?

They came with the army.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Rereading my above post, it comes off as very snarky. That was not my intent. I just wanted to provide a citation.


HP 92, +13 CMB, CMD 26, +2 Init, +9 Perception, AC 20/13T/17FF (-2 when raging), +10 Fort, +6 Ref, +3/+5 Will Human barbarian 8

FYI, I'll be out of town Thursday through Monday; I think it's unlikely I'll be posting at all in that time.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Turook has an impressive groundspeed. Add in longstrider and Impossible Speed and he can move.

How did he get so fast?


HP 47/52 :: AC 23 CMD 20 :: Fort +6 Reflex +4 Will +6 :: Perception -1 Initiative +0

I believe he does have Impossible Speed (that's the Mythic Ability, right?)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Thom. wrote:
I believe he does have Impossible Speed (that's the Mythic Ability, right?)

Ah! He does, but the version on his character sheet just listed the ability to spend mythic power for a temporary +10 ft/tier, since the static part was already built in.


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9

Yup.

PRD wrote:
Impossible Speed (Ex): Your base land speed increases by 30 feet. In addition, if you expend one use of mythic power, for 1 hour your base land speed increases by 10 feet per mythic tier.

In addition to that and Longstrider, I have a Champion's Strike.

PRD wrote:
Fleet Charge (Ex): As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to move up to your speed. At any point during this movement, you can make a single melee or ranged attack at your highest attack bonus, adding your tier to the attack roll. This is in addition to any other attacks you make this round. Damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction.

It looks like I missed that part in my bio - I was trying to separate passive and activated abilities, and this one is both. I'll update that.


HP 47/52 :: AC 23 CMD 20 :: Fort +6 Reflex +4 Will +6 :: Perception -1 Initiative +0

Yah, that's why i usually break them down by their source (class, mythic, racial, etc). Then again, there are like a bazillion ways to organize a character sheet. :)

But I'm excited to see how everyone performs with their Mythic-osity, our zippy switch-hitter included.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Turook wrote:
I'll update that.

The way you had it is perfectly valid for a statblock. It has all information needed to use the character. I was just trying to reverse-engineer it and didn't think enough.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

So, just to make sure I understand the situation:

We're outnumbered approximately two-to-one by a force of demonspawn, commanded by a brimorak demon.

Our forces have the opportunity to ambush the demonspawn, because they don't know we are here.

Soairse is our commander, so she gets to pick a tactic. Our choices consist of

  • Expert Flankers (Offense bonus at cost of defense)
  • Standard (Unmodified stat block)
  • Withdraw(Make a morale check to used ranged weapons or run instead of melee)

The fact that our army has Smite Evil and is probably a couple levels up over their opponents probably gives us a way to offset their numbers.

The opposing army also has some 'bunker-like structures' that might give them defensive bonuses.

Meanwhile, Lucius will try to not die.


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9

I thought our commander was one of us - a player of our choosing. I'm sure PF can clear that up, for us.

Ambush seems to work like a surprise round, assuming we attack successfully - it's probably worth using our highest OM modifiers here, as the enemy can't retaliate that round if we succeed.

Smite Evil is good, but keep in mind that we get only 1 per battle.

Withdraw is correct, but we also take a -2 penalty to attack and defense. Might prove necessary if the brimorak's abilities affect us in melee.

Bunkers could potentially fall under the Advantageous Terrain category as you said, giving them a defense bonus. I'm still not clear on whether or not we could continue the Ranged phase, drawing them to us and negating this bonus.


WotR - A | Drezen | WotR - B | Righteous Medals

I'd be willing to interject a "reconnaissance" phase as well...you guys don't know if there are any demonspawn in the bunker places nor how "commander"y the brimorak is.


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9

I realize now that the NPCs can be our commanders, and one of us is the general.

Do the Aron, Sosiel, or Nurah have any boons or abilities (Charisma score, Leadership, or Profession-Soldier) that might affect our decision?


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9

Edit: I see above where my previous question was answered.

Okay, after reading a bit more, a few things stand out to me. Firstly, in the Tactics portion:

Mass Combat wrote:
An army can know a number of tactics equal to half its ACR, minimum 0.

I now think this means that we could choose, at this point, three tactics from a pool of available tactics – since we only have three available, that makes this portion very simple. During each combat phase, we can choose a strategy based on this 5-point scale. We can move up or down one level, or more with a successful morale check.

So during combat, or general could call for a reckless ambush, then transition to aggressive ranged or melee, then again to standard, and so on.

We should have 16hp (I'm not sure about the enemy, but for argument's sake, let's assume they are a mirror image of ourselves.) I think our DV is 17 or 18, depending on which commander we pick. Our OM could likewise be +7 or +8, depending on that choice.

As I understand things, this is more or less how a battle could go. notice that tactics change both OM and DV, and they resolve simultaneously. OC = Offensive Check (1d20+OM)

Here's a mockup battle:
Team 1: Led by Aron Kir; OM +7 | DV 18 | HP: 16
Team 2: Led by Nurah Dendiwhar; OM+8 | DV 17 | HP: 16

Round 1 ~~
Team 1 OC, Aggressive: 1d20 + 7 + 2 ⇒ (11) + 7 + 2 = 20
Team 1 DV: 18 - 2 = 16
Damage: 20 - 19 + 3 = 4

Team 2 OC, Cautious: 1d20 + 8 - 2 ⇒ (11) + 8 - 2 = 17
Team 2 DV: 17 + 2 = 19
Damage: 17 - 16 - 3 = -2   Hit, but no damage, due to Cautious strategy penalty

Team 1 HP: 16
Team 2 HP: 12

Round 2 ~~
Team 1 OC, Reckless, Flanking: 1d20 + 7 + 2 + 4 ⇒ (11) + 7 + 2 + 4 = 24
Team 1 DV: 18 - 4 - 2 = 12
Damage: 24 - 17 + 6 = 13     Hit; Reckless strategy bonus damage

Team 2 OC, Cautious: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (6) + 8 = 14
Team 2 DV: 17 = 17
Damage: 14 - 12 + 0 = 2
Team 1 HP: 14
Team 2 HP: -1      DEFEAT!

It's great that they both had the same roll in the first round: it really shows how strategy can turn the tide. It's worth noting that if Team 2 had started off as Defensive, that first attack would not have succeeded.

Additionally, had the second attack reduced Team 2's DV to a range between 0 and 3 (ACR), the army would be Routed, and succeed at a DC 15 Morale check or be scattered (defeat.) This is where a commander with a morale bonus would factor in. It would also help in the case where you wanted to adjust strategy more than 1 step between rounds - a Morale check DC 20.


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9

Update: In the event that an OC does not exceed the enemy's DV, no damage is dealt, regardless of bonus damage (except in the case of a natural 20, which does a minimum of 1 damage.)


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9
Saoirse Palelight wrote:
So, pretty simple, I think our best strategy is to hit this army as hard as possible to minimize our own losses. Even if there is another army hidden out there waiting for us to attack, taking out this army quickly allows us to react faster. So, I say we try for the Ambush, set ourselves to Expert Flanker tactics, activate Smite Evil on the army, and use the Aggressive strategy. If I'm reading things correctly, that should put us at OM +14, DV 14, with +3 DMG. If ambush is successful, the enemy also wont be able to set a tactic which would be great.

I believe Pendin adjusted our army score. The previous stats included bonuses from all commanders, but we can only pick one.

The plan you laid out would give us OM +13 | DV 13 | +3 Damage | Morale Bonus 0. Our choice of commander would raise either OM, DV, or Morale by +1.

Make sense?

Additionally, we could skip those 3, and just make Lucius our commander. This would give us a +4 Morale modifier(Charisma score), so I would opt for him over Sosiel Vaenic, if we went that route. UPDATE: Thom brings up a good point that whoever the commander is, they would be excluded from any small skirmish that might come up.


HP 47/52 :: AC 23 CMD 20 :: Fort +6 Reflex +4 Will +6 :: Perception -1 Initiative +0

As for whom to use as the Commander, Saoirse has nearly as good a Charisma as Lucius. And if we are able to split our little group off into a spec-ops team to take down their leader, Lucius rounds out our team skill set better than Saoirse. I mean, I’d love to have her Smite if/when that goes down, but not having Arcane casting in that group is a huge tactical loss.

As for the battle plan, here’s my thoughts:

Let’s take Pendins offer for recon. Primarily to know if they have ranged capabilities, but also to fnd out how well they’re equipped overall (basically, do they have any offensive or defensive advantages other than their fortifications). If they don’t have ranged as an option, we can ambush them from range, then just continue hammering them until they come out to us. At that point, the army can be instructed to pound them in melee. With our army’s ability to self-heal, I’d suggest we fight them aggressively, putting offense over defense in an attempt to break through their superior numbers quicker. It’s a gamble, but I think it’s a good one.

if they do have ranged as an option … well, I’d still love to find a way to pull them out of their bunker. I’m just not sure how to do that within the Mass Combat rules.


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9
Thom. wrote:

As for the battle plan, here’s my thoughts:

Let’s take Pendins offer for recon.

Agreed. We can do some recon, then revisit our battle plan.

 
Thom. wrote:
With our army’s ability to self-heal, I’d suggest we fight them aggressively, putting offense over defense in an attempt to break through their superior numbers quicker. It’s a gamble, but I think it’s a good one.

After looking at that test-run, I agree. Heals can be clutch, and give us some leeway to be aggressive or reckless at the beginning.

 
Thom. wrote:
...if they do have ranged as an option … well, I’d still love to find a way to pull them out of their bunker. I’m just not sure how to do that within the Mass Combat rules.

As I understand it, if they don't have a ranged option, they spend the first round of ranged combat to rush forward into melee range. At the point any side engages in melee, it is considered the Melee Phase, and you must Withdraw to continue ranged attacks.


HP 47/52 :: AC 23 CMD 20 :: Fort +6 Reflex +4 Will +6 :: Perception -1 Initiative +0

Yes, and when they choose to do that, they should lose the fortification bonus, I would think.


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9

One would hope, but it may depend on whether it is they, or we who charge first. I think it's probably up to GM interpretation, unless it's addressed in the campaign documents.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Lucius can totally picture himself at the head of a army, shouting commands. It's where he expected to be before long when he showed up in Kenabres anyway. +4 on morale checks sounds pretty good.

Soairse is still probably more appropriate (she's a Pal4, just like the members of the army, doesn't worship devils, so on), but it would hardly be wrong for them to switch.

In terms of the side mission, if it is to assassinate the brimorak, Soairse is better to bring than Lucius. Smite Evil will mess that demon up far better than anything Lucius can bring to bear.


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9

DM Fust, can you confirm that these are the stats we are working with, or otherwise update them for us? I just want to make sure we're all working with the right info.

~~  Knights of Kenabres  ~~
ACR 3 | LG Medium Army of Humans (Paladin 4)
Speed 3; Morale 0; Consumption 5
HP 16 | DV 17 | OM +7 | Ranged

Commander Options  ~~
Nurah Dendiwhar       +1 OM
Aron Kir                    +1 DV
Sosiel Vaenic             +1 Morale

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I wrote:
Seeing the mass combat rules also makes me wonder how many Bearded Devils a 10th level Lucius will be able to assemble in one place.

At 10th level, Lucius will get access to lesser planar binding, 4 times a day. He'll succeed the majority of the time to call a Bearded Devil and bind it to his service for 10 days. (Beat SR 75% of the time, beat Will save 90% of the time, win Charisma check 90% of the time)

That's 2.43 devils per day. Over 10 days, he will accumulate 24.3 devils, on average, before the first batch go back to hell. It costs all his 5th level spells, and most of his 3rd and 4th level spells (magic circle and dimensional anchor) to maintain at equilibrium, but that's probably worth it if we're still using the Mass Combat rules at 10th level.

25 devils is a Tiny army with the following stat block:

Barbazu Army
LE Tiny army of Bearded Devils
hp 5; ACR 1
DV 16; OM+2
Special bleed, darkvision, disease, immune (poison), significant defense (+5, 10 seemed high),
spell resistance, summon (as animal companion), teleport
Speed teleport; Morale +0; Consumption Special (Lucius's spell slots)


WotR - A | Drezen | WotR - B | Righteous Medals
Turook wrote:
Saoirse Palelight wrote:
So, pretty simple, I think our best strategy is to hit this army as hard as possible to minimize our own losses. Even if there is another army hidden out there waiting for us to attack, taking out this army quickly allows us to react faster. So, I say we try for the Ambush, set ourselves to Expert Flanker tactics, activate Smite Evil on the army, and use the Aggressive strategy. If I'm reading things correctly, that should put us at OM +14, DV 14, with +3 DMG. If ambush is successful, the enemy also wont be able to set a tactic which would be great.

I believe Pendin adjusted our army score. The previous stats included bonuses from all commanders, but we can only pick one.

The plan you laid out would give us OM +13 | DV 13 | +3 Damage | Morale Bonus 0. Our choice of commander would raise either OM, DV, or Morale by +1.

Make sense?

Additionally, we could skip those 3, and just make Lucius our commander. This would give us a +4 Morale modifier(Charisma score), so I would opt for him over Sosiel Vaenic, if we went that route. UPDATE: Thom brings up a good point that whoever the commander is, they would be excluded from any small skirmish that might come up.

Sorry for the confusion, the presence of those 3 imparts those bonuses to the army. They don't give them because they are commanders. I was correcting my earlier statement about how to calculate the scores.


WotR - A | Drezen | WotR - B | Righteous Medals

So in addendum, whoever you choose as commander will give the Morale bonus on top of what those 3 give.

The way I envision the recon working is, you all select a scout or team of scouts. Roll a stealth and perception check, anyone in the scouting group can give aid to those checks. The opposing army will make a perception check for your stealth score to be beaten. If you don't have a signal set up or some such then those in the scout team will be spotted and have a skirmish. If you do have a signal or something then the commander of the army can give the order to attack and save the scouting group.

If the scouting group's Perception check meets or exceeds the opposing army's DV then you will get basic info (basic stats) and for every 5 you exceed then you will get more specialized info (such as commander stats).


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Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9

Okay, updated.

~~  Knights of Kenabres  ~~
ACR 3 | LG Medium Army of Humans (Paladin 4)
Speed 3; Morale +1; Consumption 5
HP 16 | DV 18 | OM +8 | Ranged

Commander  ~~
Nurah Dendiwhar       +1 OM
Aron Kir                    +1 DV
Sosiel Vaenic             +1 Morale

Tactics  ~~
Expert Flankers
Standard
Withdraw

Resources  ~~
Expert Flankers
Improved Armor
Improved Weapons (mwk Cold Iron)
Mounts
Ranged Weapons (longbows)
Special Aura Of Courage
Channel Positive Energy
Divine Health
Lay On Hands
Mercy
Smite Evil

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~  Demons of the Ford  ~~
ACR ? | Large Army of Tieflings
Speed ?; Morale +2; Consumption ?
HP ? | DV 12 | OM +4

Commander Options  ~~
Brimorak demon      +2 Morale
Tactics  ~~
Standard
Withdraw

Special  ~~
Darkvision
Sneak Attack
Spellcasting
 
 
I'm going to mark this for reference.

Are we all good leading with an aggressive strategy?


WotR - A | Drezen | WotR - B | Righteous Medals

Oh and yes, whoever is general will be excluded from the zoomed in skirmishes...excepting special occasions. Mwahahahaha


Female Human Paladin/Marshal: 5/1 HP: 30/62 AC: 23(26 Smite, 20 No Shield) T: 12(15) FF: 21(24) CMD: 21(F:19) F: +11 R: +8 W: +13 Perception: +6, Immune Disease, Fear (+4 morale 10 ft.)

While I do see the tactical value in making Lucius the Commander of the army, I believe roleplay dictates our actions here more than meta stats. The army is still composed of 100 paladins of Iomedae, not Asmoedeus, and Iomedae's disciples are not on the best of terms with Asmoedeus given the whole evil subjugation of Iomedae's homeland thing.

Given that aspect, Lucius might be better from a numbers perspective, but from a story perspective it just doesn't make sense to me for paladins of Iomedae to be agreeable to following orders from an admitted Asmodeus worshiper.

Otherwise, with the scouting done, I definitely feel that using Ambush, then hitting the tiefling army with smite evil expert flankers and aggressive strategy is our way to go.


HP 47/52 :: AC 23 CMD 20 :: Fort +6 Reflex +4 Will +6 :: Perception -1 Initiative +0

I agree with Saoirse, and I maintain that Lucius has just as much (if not more) to offer the assault team.

One more question about the Mass Combat component. Do we have access to Advantageous Terrain if we use the river or our side of the river effectively some how? I'd love to draw them out to us, then hammer them.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I feel like if we can hold the high ground on one side of the river, and we have ranged attacks, then we should get Advantageous Terrain because the tieflings have to struggle across the ford and come up the bank into our waiting swords.

The possible catch, though, is we need to wipe out or capture all the tieflings - they can't escape to the spread word. If they run from our bombardment instead of racing to meet us in melee, we have to chase them down, and that would put us at the disadvantage with the river.


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9
Saoirse Palelight wrote:
While I do see the tactical value in making Lucius the Commander of the army, I believe roleplay dictates our actions here more than meta stats. The army is still composed of 100 paladins of Iomedae, not Asmoedeus, and Iomedae's disciples are not on the best of terms with Asmoedeus given the whole evil subjugation of Iomedae's homeland thing.

Totally works for me - mostly, I was just trying to lay out the mechanics since Mass Combat is a new concept for most of us. Although, now I want to see our paladin army combined with Lucius's tiny army of bearded devils!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Turook wrote:
Although, now I want to see our paladin army combined with Lucius's tiny army of bearded devils!

Just 6 more levels!


HP 47/52 :: AC 23 CMD 20 :: Fort +6 Reflex +4 Will +6 :: Perception -1 Initiative +0

Then let's try for that. Ambush + ranged to open. Continue at range until they come to get us, at which point we'll hopefully have Terrain Advantage. Then pulpify them into small bits?


HP 92, +13 CMB, CMD 26, +2 Init, +9 Perception, AC 20/13T/17FF (-2 when raging), +10 Fort, +6 Ref, +3/+5 Will Human barbarian 8

Agreed on all counts. I think game-wise it makes more sense at this point to have Saoirse be the commander.


HP 47/52 :: AC 23 CMD 20 :: Fort +6 Reflex +4 Will +6 :: Perception -1 Initiative +0

LET'S DO THIS!

we need some killer theme music. Anyone got any ideas?


Efficient Quiver | HP:34/34 | AC:20*/18 | CMD:20 | Fort: +9 Ref: +9 Will: +5 | Initiative +3 | Darkvision 60' | Perception +9 | Stealth +9

Duh duh DUH DUH dunna duh dah Duh duh DUH DUH!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Thom. wrote:
Anyone got any ideas?

Smite-smite-smite, smite the evil tieflings?


WotR - A | Drezen | WotR - B | Righteous Medals

Yeah you'll get advantageous terrain since you're ambushing.


HP 47/52 :: AC 23 CMD 20 :: Fort +6 Reflex +4 Will +6 :: Perception -1 Initiative +0

Woot!

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

In seriousness, what is our gameplan for hunting down the brimorak concurrent with the slaughter of the tieflings?

Just charging across the battlefield is not a good plan - soon we'll have crowds of tieflings going the other way.

I suggest that Turook leads us sort of around the soon-to-be battlefield. Probably the same route he scouted yesterday, only with Stealth being less of a priority - Lucius's land speed will only last 6 minutes. Even if we're spotted, the paladin's arrows will be coming overhead in a few minutes.


HP 92, +13 CMB, CMD 26, +2 Init, +9 Perception, AC 20/13T/17FF (-2 when raging), +10 Fort, +6 Ref, +3/+5 Will Human barbarian 8

That's fine with me. Honestly, I'd probably handwave that part and say we clash while the armies battle, but I don't know what DM Pendin has in mind.


WotR - A | Drezen | WotR - B | Righteous Medals

Exactly that Jacob...I figured the away team would be trying to reach the commander brimorak at about the same time as the battle is going on.


WotR - A | Drezen | WotR - B | Righteous Medals

Hey gang, sorry today is going to be a loss for me...Super busy at work.

Try for tomorrow but Wednesday at the latest!

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