Joana |
Yeah, I really liked that in the Beta rules, too. I understand why they dropped it -- it adds an extra level of complication, and in most cases there won't be that much difference between the senses -- but the different races getting Perception bonuses to different senses added flavor and it avoided situations where invisibility makes someone quieter.
Joana |
These things are brutal for their CR. Most creatures with DR have a low AC. Add that there's no way to overcome the DR and poison? Bleah. :P
EDIT: Meh, I should have 5-footed to F6. With flanking, that would have hit. It's even in-character for her to move to block the snake's advance toward the Professor. Didn't even occur to me.
Myron Drumbarrel |
Why isn't the professor using inspire courage? We could use the boost to both to hit and damage? As for the rest of us (or Myron at least) it looks like our actions are best spent providing pherenike with flanking and aid another.
Professor Aristedes |
Because its a single creature that we really should have dispatched by now. I'd rather take a shot at boosting our Fighter's attack rolls, she doesn't need the +1 damage.
Joana |
Not that it will matter now that you are out of combat and someone will heal you...
Actually ... Kheled's completely out of spells and channels and didn't learn stabilize. :P
Does anyone have the Heal skill trained?
EDIT: So with strain/injury rules, only the last 3 hp were injury damage, right? How does that work? Do the 6 points of strain damage not heal until the 3 points of injury damage heal? Does he pop up like in Dragon Age only 3 hp down since the party survived? Or does taking a 'final blow' turn all the damage into injury that'll have to be healed up magically?
Mus'ad |
No heal here.
Just went back and re-read the strain injury rules and it seems like he should heal up all strain damage with a rest and refit (5 minute break), which needs to be tended while unconscious (which Kheled could do).
Obviously needs him to stabilize first though :P
Mus'ad |
Fellow Crypt Divers,
A short missive to advise that I shall be on a brief holiday to Phuket starting tomorrow and returning on Monday. It's highly likely that I shall be non responsive during the period, though I assure you that I shall return to efficacy thereafter.
Regards,
Mus'ad
Joana |
Is Aerathiel conscious again by the time we've opened the sarcophagus? Can we have an overhead map of where we've been and where we haven't? I know we've bypassed at least one set of doors, but I can't remember where they were or whether any other roads have diverged in a yellow wood that we haven't investigated yet.
Joana |
So, not that it matters in this case, but in general do you get a flanking bonus to CMB? Or does it depend on the maneuver in question? I can see getting a flanking bonus to grapple someone, but a bonus to an attempt to break a grapple seems a little odd. Does it count as an attack for the Inspire Courage bonus?
DM oKOyA |
I think this is the key bit of text.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.
Given that, I would say yes, in general you get flanking bonuses to CMB. To initiating a grapple, I would say yes indeed.
To break a grapple however, I would say no, as I would say that breaking a grapple isn't really an "attack" in the sense that it will not damage or hinder/disadvantage the grappler.
Inspire Courage works much the same I would think. Yes to initiating, no to breaking.
Of course, these are just my thoughts. I could be convinced otherwise. :)
Incidentally, HeroLab adds the flanking bonus to your CMB but does not add the Inspire Courage bonus to your CMB. :P
Joana |
I guess you could argue that someone trying to hold on to someone could be just as distracted by a threat on the other side of them that allows the person to yank free as they could be distracted by a threat on the other side of them that allows the person to hit them more easily. Either way, they're splitting their attention, whether defending against two threats or defending against one while trying to keep the other from escaping.
Mus'ad |
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects.
If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check
Break the grapple = combat maneuver check = make an attack roll and add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls. Flanking is an attack roll modifier.
Ergo, attempts to break a grapple benefit from flanking.
DM oKOyA |
I'm not convinced that breaking a grapple is an "attack".
What is the purpose of the line "These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver"?
Or to look at it from another perspective, what if the grappler has an ally flanking the target of the grapple. Does the mere presence/threat of the flanker make subsequent CMB by the grappler benefit from flank? Allow them to get a bonus to pin, tie up or move the grappled creature just by virtue of position alone?
How does that work with multiple grapplers? Can they get the +2 from flanking and the +2 from aid another? etc etc
Mus'ad |
Attempting to break a grapple isn't an attack - it's a combat maneuver check.
Therefore the first bit I put in above applied - when performing a combat maneuver, make an attack roll. And in making said attack roll, add in any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls - such as flanking.
As to whether a person attempting to maintain a grapple / pin / etc should get a flanking bonus? - yes, as it's a combat maneuver roll = attack roll = flanking applies.
The line 'These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver.' - well heading up to the Combat Modifiers section it has a table and descriptions.
For Flanking it states When making a melee attack, you get a +2 flanking bonus if your opponent is threatened by another enemy character or creature on its opposite border or opposite corner.
Since Breaking a Grapple = Combat Maneuver Check = Attack roll in melee = Flanking applies.
At least that's my logic.
Kheled Hadri |
Mus'ad's logic is sound in my mind and that is how I have always played it as well.
At least for the last couple of years once my group deep delved grapple rules and decided on how to handle it.
Its the make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus part that really solidifies it for me, the "in place" particularly.
DM oKOyA |
Seeing as how breaking the grapple allows the one being grappled to turn the tables and become the grappler, I guess it at least has the potential to be an "attack". :)
I'm not particularly invested in it either way. I'm fine with the flanking applying to all CMBs. We'll play it as such.
*scribbles in notepad* Note: More grabby mobs in the future! ;)
Joana |
How does that work with multiple grapplers? Can they get the +2 from flanking and the +2 from aid another? etc etc
I believe Aid Another stacks with flanking for melee attacks, doesn't it?
A X B
If A and B are allies, then A can grant B +2 from flanking and +2 to his attack on X if he successfully spends his standard action to Aid Another.
(I know you've already made a ruling; I just enjoy dissecting the mechanics.)
Mus'ad |
Alexander Kilcoyne |
Are we waiting on Alex's input? Maybe someone else could step up and be interim leader for the time being?
I've been a little reluctant to be forceful because i'm able to post so infrequently right now, but I really don't understand the constant desire to retreat.
The strain/injury system finally gives something of a solution to the 15 minute work day but it feels like everyone is trying to make it the 5 minute workday.
We're low level. The casters are expected to have useful cantrips and/or basic weaponry. Our martials really have a chance to shine and push on using the strain system... and we keep running clear and discussing retreat at every moment.
The only person with any actual damage is Aerathiel.
I suspect Okoya is having the same thoughts as I am but is being more diplomatic.
In addition, there have been hints that time is an issue. Wasting an entire day because our Oracle is fizzled out seems like such a waste.
Jacob Trier RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 |
The problem with this particular threat is that only Pherenike has the ability to consistently overcome it's hardness. If she drops (as she was close to doing), we have no way of getting her back on her feet, and very little chance of defeating the monster without losing more party members.
I don't think retreating from a strong threat is unreasonable, especially since we have likely completed the main objective of this particular tomb.
Joana |
What Jacob said. Pherenike gets bit one more time, and all we've got is Aerathiel acid splashing.
Plus, I have no issue with going through other doors; I just have no interest in standing around fighting this particular monster. What are we gaining by doing so? We've already searched the room it was in, it doesn't have any treasure that we're aware of that we can get by killing it, and it's not a threat to anyone else. I'm not willing to risk my PC in a fight with absolutely no reward.
From a wider perspective, I'm finding the whole premise behind this first adventure distasteful. We're not rescuing anyone, we're not ending a threat against the city, we're not trying to find a MacGuffin to save the world: We're straight up messing with things that don't need to be messed with for the sheer greed of stealing anything that's not nailed down. And it's a first-level dungeon, so we're not even going to get anything remotely interesting out of it.