Based on my log - it should be roughly day 10, I believe, since we awoke on the pirate's ship (that is - Erastus 29th). I believe that today is "Toilday" - (ironically enough) - the 7th of Arodus - roughly the 10th day of our voyage when Rosie was rescued.
Then, we went back to work - made Con checks - it may still be the 7th - though possibly the 8th (Wealday) - but I am not entirely positive.
I need everyones opinion on something. I was very impressed with your rp when I took the shackles (pardon the pun) off of you with the actions and such. It is a neat mechanic doing ship actions and jobs and such but I am curious what everyone thinks of it. I don't want you to feel burdened by the rules but I still want to keep the toil and sweat and general feel of being press ganged intact. Also there are some things that need to happen at certain points in order for the plot to progress and I can steer you all towards them while still giving you the freedom to do as you wish. Basically I am wondering what people think of the mechanics and if there are any ways that they could be improved without unbalancing the campaign and plot arcs? Let me know what you think...either on here or by PM. I want you all to have as much fun as possible so whatever I can do to facilitate that while keeping the story intact I will do.
I am not a fan of the mechanics.
I would not mind them if this was a table-top game; but the reality is (as I see it) – is that they bog down the game; forcing the action to slow down tremendously.
For example – you ask us to each make specific rolls – and as the GM you don’t tell us what happens next until you see the success or failure of those rolls, as if one person fails or has a problem will effect what happens between social RP.
This means that when you ask for the “job duty” rolls, I make my roll, then I wait until you tell me what happens next. But you can't tell me what happens next until you see everyone's rolls. That means that everyone in the game, including you - have to wait if one person doesn't make a roll - and generally this is for an issue as mundane as swabbing decks. Resolving our "daily chores" can actually take 2 or 3 days in real life.
As of now (as I see it) the mechanic is in place to suggest that we are basically miserable press-ganged people, with a driving desire to escape our situation. I think we can just RP that without having that mechanic at this point.
The most challenging part of the daily mechanic plot points is to complete day-to-day tasks, but even if we succeed at those tasks, it doesn’t feel very exciting. For example, if I make a “Profession: Sailor Check” and also a “Constitution Check”, I did my job, but that’s not very exciting or swashbuckley, and kind of boring. And while I do my job, I have to wait for everyone to do theirs - then I have to wait for you to read their success/failures, and post a response – and during this delay, if my job is to "scrub decks", I can’t talk to people in the rigging (at least – not effectively), nor they me, which kind of locks us down from social RP in general for literally 2 or 3 days, even if some players are actually up for social RP in the meantime. If the mechanic remains - that means that we can't RP with each other while we wait, even if some players want to RP in the meantime.
It's my opinion that we either be given more freedom for social RP – or just fast forward a little to more “action points”. This is a pirate/swashbuckler style game - I'm looking for things like leaping into the bilges to fight dire rats; plunging into a storming sea to save a drowning friend; getting into a bare-knuckled boxing match or going round and round below decks with some other thugs - I'm just not very excited to scrub decks, climb rigging, and hoist sails - especially if those jobs prevent me from RP.
Very close it is day 9 of your voyage.
Does that mean it is the 9th day now - or the day we rescued Rosie was the 9th day?
Somewhere my calculations are a bit off, and I'd like clarification.
First, there was a storm, we worked all day and socially RP'd into the night (day 1 of the storm).
The next day Rosie fell over the side of the ship, was rescued, then we went back to work all day/nigh - slept one hour and were forced to make high Constitution checks (day 2 of the storm).
You are currently waiting for everyone involved to make their "duty rolls' and Constitution checks; then we go to bed and wake up (this is still day 2, I believe) - though it could also be day three of the storm.
That's where my disconnect comes in.
I am not sure how long this storm has raged (3 days for a storm seems a lot so far) - but was hoping you may be able to clarify it.
Thank you for your help in this matter :)
Day 1: we all go up into the rigging and RP al night long.
Day 2: We get our jobs and rosie falls overboard. then we pull our double-shift and work all night. get one hour rest.
Day 3: has just begun, and we have yet to recieve our tasks for the day...
@Horation Regarding the mechanics slowing things down, We have been able to have time, and can just as easily have a "fast-forward" to before the bloody-hour which I did, and that allowed for several conversations to happen during the day. So there are work-arounds.
If anything itinkit would be worse for a table top game as everyone around the table waits for the one person to perform his daily chore and his daily activity. PbP seems dial to me for this campaign. You can interact as much as you want without sitting at a table waiting your turn.
If anything itinkit would be worse for a table top game as everyone around the table waits for the one person to perform his daily chore and his daily activity. PbP seems dial to me for this campaign. You can interact as much as you want without sitting at a table waiting your turn.
Well, I agree it may be more boring - but we could knock out "daily chores" for the entire party in less then 5 minutes per "day" if it was tabletop.
GM says "here's your chore sheet" -
We say "Okay - here's my roll" - everyone tosses the dice in a matter of minutes instead of days.
Then the results - then the next chore - then finally some action.
Again - we'd have the first three or four days of "chores" done in a matter of one hour, perhaps less.
But this isn't tabletop, it's PBP, which is different, of course. We've not yet hit 10 days yet in game - and it has been nearly 2 months of gaming, and over a 1,000 posts; many related to chores.
And actually, as I have seen it, you literally can't interact as much as you want with other players.
I tried that in the beginning. I tried to social RP with people while working with Cog scrubbing decks. I was told I couldn't do it, because (other then perhaps 10 minutes, if I was lucky) - I was doing chores and wasn't allowed to until the evening.
So I had to wait until the evening before I could RP. But the evening doesn't happen until everyone posts actions - and then, after they post actions, the GM has to read actions (standard for PBP, I know), but because we were in different parts of the ship, and because we couldn't interact much with each other, this was difficult.
Meanwhile, if one person falls and breaks their neck, that could seriously complicate me trying to fast forward the game and say "okay, I'm going to socially RP with someone, we'll pretend it is later that night, while we wait for this chore thing to get resolved".
Dhaavan - as for your suggestion of fast forwarding?
Well, what if you and I toss up our rolls, and are done - and want to fast forward to social RP at the bloody hour. But between our daily chores and the bloody hour, something very important happens, but the GM can't tell us until he sees what happens and knows if someone will be fatigued, or had to cast a spell, or whatever - because we got attacked?
Clearly, if we fast forward and your character had been in a fight - it may dramatically effect our social RP - so waiting until the bloody hour seems like our only option if we want to make sure our social RP makes sense. But we won't know if we're attacked until the GM tells us - and he may not tell us until he knows what we do. If you had lost your voice for an action you took in the afternoon, and you and I had fast forwarded prior that happening via the bloody hour - how would that work?
All of this also centers around the fact that the majority of our characters are working on "chores". While doing chores and hard work is an important part of life - sadly, it's not really the pirate angle I hoped to find.
But again - this is my opinion only. I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just say what I think. If people find waiting for everyone to post before they can interact okay - that's their cup of tea. For me - I just find it slow and kind of dull.
Personally - I'm pretty much done with the daily chores thing. Let's either have some latitude for social RP - or more fast forward to stuff that is more exciting. Of course, that's just me. I'm sure not everyone agrees with that opinion, but for what it's worth, I felt I would just toss it out there.
The pace has been a little slow for me. The waiting between rolls, results and rp can be annoying. If a character cannot post their actions on any given day and won't get the chance over the next day or so, then they should say something on the discussion board to the fact and the GM should either move the game forward or NPC them. Time zones are difficult and we have that, too. I am unsure of everyone's locations, but I do try and post in my morning (and my very late night) being that I am in the southern hemisphere and you guys have been posting (during your day) while I sleep.
btw, I'm interested in knowing, are the rest of you guys all in the northern hemisphere?
If we continue to simply do chores and night activities, in all honesty, I will find it rather dull. I do not believe it is very conducive for social rp because for that to be successful you have to have people posting around about the same time and with each other. And generally when some of the PCs are interacting in the evening, they seem to be only trying to influence the crew or sleep and are not interested in getting to know the other PCs. It feels like some characters are only in it for themselves and there is no developing group dynamic.
I'd love to find a happier medium.
It's easy enough to tell that the day time/night time actions and ship's chores are designed for tabletop play. Cause yeah, we could roll through 10 in a row and skip to the interactions and such as it were. The PBP format does make it more difficult.
That being said, they are designed to exactly mimic the fact that we're press ganged sailors. It's not supposed to be swashbuckling high adventure yet. It's hard to find a happy medium with this first part of the AP and it might just require some patience from us till we get to the "good stuff".
I think a good solution might be if that someone can't or hasn't made their rolls in 'x' amount of time, the GM should just roll for them, and go from there. That would speed things up and still give the flavor of the daily tasks. I don't think ignoring them just because they slow down social rp is inthe best interest of the game... there is more to the game than just combat and social rp in this case...
And yes, While I agree that yeah, we've got that the work is hard and tedious and tiring, ignoring it just because we 'get that' isn't necessarily a good thing. Speeding it up though would be a good thing - give everyone like 3 or 4 hours to roll their own or roll for them, would really speed things up.
I think part of the problem is tht those without good social skills are limited in their actions right now. I know I feel tht way in. Another pbp where two thirds of a book is all charisma based skills. I joined the group late and they wanted a fighter so I made a tower shield fighter with a cha of 8. I can't e even talk to some NPC's since the dc is a 20. It is one of the main reasons that I mad sure to pick a trait that gave me at least one social skill or ability.
For what it's worth - I think the best thing for it is to have once a day when the GM looks at the board and says "okay - this is the time I check the board - if actions aren't up; then I roll for you and move on."
If we have a fixed time - that means the most anyone waits is 24 hours. So even if Rain is sacked out in Oz - then that's okay - because if the GM says "9 PM Eastern Standard Time" as his cut-off; he'll say at nine "Okay - I rolled for X, Y and Z - now you see what happens - it's your move."
Then Rain would check the boards several hours later, and post her roll at midnight Eastern Standard - or something like that; and her action would pop up first, not last.
But having a definite scheduled time as cut off would help a lot for organizational stuff, I think. As the day goes on - if we can't get to the board by then, we could at least text a line to let someone know.
Naturally other things could happen - multiple actions, multiple social RP - and other things like that, too, if we're all around to be posting - but sooner or later, we have to know that at a given time (and I think that if that time is fixed it will be better) - if the action for the day hasn't been posted - then the game moves on without that player acting.
Toward that end - we could also stipulate a substitute - if it doesn't make sense for the GM to take action, and just have them "pinch hit" for our actions if we can't make it.
Anyway - that's just a suggestion.
not a bad suggestion in my mind, and pretty much what I said, except I gave it a shorter time frame. but doing it in such a way that lets Rain have a good chance to roll for herself is of course better. :)
Something to point out given Variel's post. Unless Immortal has changed his ruleset, I think people are unaware of how the Influence action is able to work in this game. Immortal, please jump in to correct me if I'm overstepping.
When you take the Influence ship action on an NPC, it doesn't have to only be a Diplomacy check. The options are Diplomacy (what it sounds like), Bluff (representing your quick wits and making people think you're a good person to call friend) or Intimidate (flat out bullying someone into "supporting" you.) They all follow the Diplomacy table of DC's, so if the person is Unfriendly the DC would be 20+Cha modifier. But you could attempt to hit that with either Diplomacy, Bluff, or Intimidate. (It's especially been fun in another game I'm in to see the RP people are coming up with when choosing to use Intimidate and succeeding, lol.)
Just something to keep in mind in case people are thinking that without Diplomacy they can't interact with people.
Valeros is correct, although remember that there will be different ways in which people will help based upon the type of influence you use as bullying someone will not always get the same response as befriending them. Also remember that you are not the only players on the ship and that certain members of the crew may be influencing people as well.
Two cuttoff's a day would be awesome, but sadly that is mainly up to your schedule, I would think.
I would think that 9 EST and again at 11:30 EST would be good; because 2 players are from California, one is from Australia, and 2 are from East Coast - not sure about the other 2; but having one right before you get to bed, and one in the early evening would make sense.
That roughly translates into
Cali - 6 PM, 8:30 PM
Oz - 11 AM, 1:30 PM
And East Coast is already taken care. If the other 2 players are east coast, they could be home to post without having to worry about being at work. But that's just a suggestion.
Meanwhile; about the actions?
I considered trying to influence some of the crew; but really, I felt that there is a point in a game where your best efforts (re: natural 20's) still fail, because they are not allowed to succeed, because there is a structure that the game follows, and that's how it works.
For now, I don't really have anything to do - because I've done what I could to figure out who I can even influence at all - then tried to influence them - and if they are already "Friendly" then that's pretty much all there is to it. More then that? Well - I hate to say it, but why bother?
I mean, once we determine if a person is our friend: good times. If they will never be our friend (like Plugg or the officers, it seems) - then what can be done?
Next - can we "buy items"? Not really - this isn't a town, it's a ship. It has what it has - not some infinite rotating stock of gear. Also - I have no coin.
But let's assume I can beg, borrow, steal or con the coin, and somehow a ship actually has a "shop" with gear that can be rotated in and out to fit my needs. Even still - so what?
Currently I am a second level character who doesn't wear armor, because if he does, he'll get the lash.
I don't carry a sword - because I'll get the lash.
I don't use my pistol in a fight with Dire Rats - because for having a secret weapon, I'll get the lash.
I don't have magical gear or goods; because if I did, and I used them in a fight - fighting for blood is something that will earn us punishment.
I'm also guessing that if I used that gear somehow against another pirate ship that attacked us, the officers would see me, and either confiscate my gear outright afterwards - or they would probably keel-haul me for "stealing" my own gear, just like they did with that guy Japes. Maybe I'm wrong - maybe if a sea serpent attacked the ship and I saved the captain's life with my smuggled sword or pistol - he might actually praise me, and let me keep my gear. But considering the options for failure equals death or torture - I'm not too excited to even try that for now.
Sure, I could try to bluff my way out of the situation, but I tried playing nice with officers, natural 20's failed, so I figure "Okay, we're in a bad spot, time to get over it; accept our the hand we got dealt - and just keep "plugging" along, waiting until we get the chance to have our own ship, and start living like the crew from Firefly, Star Trek, or any number of cool adventure stories when the crew is in charge of its own fate". That's okay - it's how the game is structured, I'll live with it. But it makes it hard for me in the meantime, as I was hoping more for that type of story/flexibility. I am confident it will come eventually, but I hope sooner then later :)
Again - this is not to cause an argument with anyone - it is just my opinion. I am not used to games that aren't sandbox - and this is very much a "campaign game" - where we have definite limitations on our options. For now, I can wait - and be patient. I only mention it because I suspect if the GM sees all of our personal opinions together, he can mold the game a little to what works best for all. Not everyone will be completely happy - but we all should be a little more happy with what he decides - but only if he knows what we want.
This is also why I tossed this long opinion on the Discussion Thread - so you guys know what I think (for what it's worth) and I know what you think of my opinions, so I can see where I can tweak things to merge better with the group, if anyone has any recommendations for me besides the GM. I know it's his game - but brainstorming doesn't hurt, and if someone gives me a good idea, I'll listen happily and do it.
Anyway - that's my thoughts. I write a lot, so they're maybe longer then others - but I just wanted everyone to know where I stand. And yes - for the most part I'm enjoying the game - but I'm more looking forward to the chance that we can cave our own ship - and some actual freedom and the chance to have no man as our master. Yay, team!
Well I thought Immortal mentioned this but if you look at the NPC list in the campaign tab, a number of the characters towards the top have *'s next to their name. I believe this indicates that they're an officer and are "immune" to influence checks, thus why Plugg, Scourge, Peppery, etc will always be indifferent to us at best. Other than that, all the rest of the crew should be fair game. Certainly the ones that are Unfriendly or Hostile will require some serious luck with the rolls but it is doable over time. This dovetails into the discussion about the amount of time spent on these daily/nightly ship actions. There are so many of them because it's to allow us to screw up some rolls but still ultimately try to win over the crew to our side.
I'm actually alright to make the first cut-off earlier cause i can post rolls during the day. So whenever the other west-coasters need the time set, i'm good with it.
The duty's seem to be put up in the morning as a rule, and i'm able to post during the day most of the time without trouble, and then we can RP at night after everyone's posted.
I can make it a point to start working on the Hostile crew-members and let those with lower diplomacy finish the job. Flynn While friendly is good it doesn't take a huge roll to go from Friendly to Helpful, so it's pretty manageable for characters with ranks in Diplomacy. so influencing the Friendlies is totally a good thing to do, since it takes a DC 20+cha roll to get an indifferent to helpful, it only takes a 10+cha to get a Friendly to Helpful. Notice that Dhaavan tends to not try to influence friendly NPC's most days unless i'm not sure who to go with Like Sandara, and someone else, i think... It would be a good goal to get the NPCs to helpful, and we still have a few friendlies.
Bluff So is bluff used to influence just about lying to the NPC's and tricking them into being friends, or can it have more to do with being clever and manipulative, making yourself seem like someone the NPC doesn't want as an enemy. SO i use a BLuff check on an unfriendly NPC get a high roll, and the NPC decides that the player is really clever and conniving and someone they want on their side? Dhaavan's not at all about Lying, but manipulation, and demonstrating that he's clever and dangerous without resorting to bullying. that may make the skill more valuable to Dhaavan for more than secret messages
Shop: Grok does have a bunch of items, so whenever you get coin, you can start buying stuff. She does have a pretty impressive stock, and Flynn can try to figure out if there's anything he needs if he asks what she's got.
money: You have Craft, so you can use that to make some cash, especially if you don't intend to use social skills that much during the night.
And like I said we have a bunch of Friendlies that you can try to get to helpful which would be good, and even if you get a bad roll, Dhaavan can go Indifferent to helpful with about a 50% success-rate depending on the target's cha, so no worries there, even unfriendly isn't too much of a problem (50% success-rate there) as long as nobody goes Hostile we're totally awesome!
Most of the crew-members do have weapons, small useful sorts, then there's Rosie and Grok with their axes, so he can likely check on what's appropriate with any of the friendly/helpful crew-members (may be ask a friendly about it, and improve their attitude while getting some information)
The DC for hostile officers is 25+cha, so unless you have at least a +6 or 7 in diplomacy, even a 20 may not make the check. but there's still NPC's that need influencing. and so far I don't think anyone's really talked to Dhaavan where he should turn his silver tongue, and till now he's been pretty much independently trying to build his own power-base among the crew, and addressing threats like Peppery when he sees them. He's got his own agenda that he's keeping to himself at the moment, but may or may not take suggestion as to what to do with his time.
Then there's also what Immortal's doen with a few NPC's giving them Helpful+ and once you have a Helpful NPC, you can get favors from them pretty easily, so you can get a hand with prepping gear, or the ship, or getting potentially valuable information from the NPC's that have been around for a while.
I'm good with the times suggested by Flynn. It gives me the chance to start my day and fit in work and being a mother. Though to be honest, it can be hard juggling posting in my morning hours with work. But since I'm the only one in the southern hemisphere, I don't really have an option. But please don't make the cutoffs any earlier because then I may not be able to play in this game.
I think I am going to do one during the day and one at night as the cut offs as we have people that can post during the day and those that can post at night. I want to try and make sure that we are fair to both.
That said I think I will make the cutoffs 11pm EST which equates to 1pm in OZ and 11AM EST which gives a cutoff of 1AM OZ time. Remember all this means is that you need to post at least once during these time periods for your actions. It does not mean you need to post immediately before the cutoff. Basically for the time being they will be divided between Day actions/RP and Evening actions/RP. If those times are no good please let me know.
Remember - Daylight savings time pushes the distance between America and Oz farther apart by two extra hours. But we do have some time for that, just saying... :)
Also - any chance of moving the early posting up an hour, to maybe noon or something? That way people can post during lunchtime, roughly? Just a request... Either way, it's your call, though.
SO that's 8am PST for the cut-off, and I'll have to post my actions at night, most likely, which won't be a problem as long as you get the jobs posted by the evening i can respond some time during the night.
A thought: We have our morning cutoff when we get out Day job rolls. Once we get them all done, we could start posting for night time actions as soon as we have all our day responses with our job rolls, we can get our night story-stuff, nad punishments, and start on Night interactions whenever we get our day stuff posted. The 11pm cut-off can hold, but we can always start the night early if we all get posts done. Then we do our day-rolls when we get our job assignments
Rain, the 11am EST point where we get our day-job rolls to make, is between 1am and 1pm for you gonna work ok? cause a later cut-off for that one works for me as well.
While all this is said and done - what exactly is our next action now that we've rolled?
The most practical thing I can do at this time is to find the person best suited for Diplomacy – and gather a few others; have that person do all the talking; while some others “Aid” the most diplomatic in their abilities. That way we could use a Diplomacy Check to move the NPC a step closer to being our friend.
You can only shift a person’s attitude once a day – but between actions – if four people succeeded on an Aid Check – and you Dhaavan did the base work – (his Diplomacy is +12) – that would mean that our combined total would be (roughly) +20, if Dhavaan had the 4 people aiding him.
We could shift two character’s attitude a day – with likely success – and in four days have brought about eight characters from Hostile to Helpful (assuming we work on one in the afternoon, and one in the evening, and assuming the combined +20 to Diplomacy rolls); and with that modifier this could probably include officers, the captain, and even Plugg, if we wanted him.
Anyone interested in that plan?
I think I am going to ixnay the aid checks for ship actions due to the fact that they are supposed to be for the group as a whole anyway. If you were doing individual checks on people for each member of the group I would probably allow it but since a single check improves attitudes for all of you I am going to keep it as each person can only make checks for themselves otherwise it gets unwieldy real quick.
If one of the cut offs is 1am my time, it could be work since I do stay up late getting things done. But if 8am (with the time conversion) is too early for Dhaav, I have no problem if the DM pushes it out a little. I will work with it, around it, one way or another. :)
Well I'm going to do my postings for that cut-off at night anyway, maybe a little something before the cut-off, but mostly at night. So 11am EST is totally fine for me. And if you're going to try to be up late to post soon as they come out, as opposed to during your morning, then earlier is fine to me too.
So those times are fine, or change if need be
I won't stay up past 12am to post as I get up early (5-6am) and yeah, it doesn't really work for me. But if the cut-off is 1am my time, I think I could get something in before that time then go to bed.
Flynn, you gonna roll that heal check, cause Dhaavan sure as hell isn't going to. not that he wouldn't, but it'd be a raw d20 roll
Heal can be performed untrained so go ahead and try. Never know what you will get. Hopefully better than the 9 we are getting.
Just a quick FYI, I will be running my Rise of the Runelords campaign IRL tomorrow so may not be able to post most of the day. For those that haven't played it, it is quite enjoyable but the maps are huge. Last fight tomorrow will be on a 8x8 ft board. Wow is all I can say.
How does Diagnose Disease stack with treating diseases?
Cause it's a Druid spell, and Sko would be able to prep it tomorrow.
Looks like he can cast it and et a bonus to his heal check, to give a bonus to the target's fort save to cure it, but does any of that stack with other heal checks going on to treat it? can he give the bonus to someone with higher ranks in heal or something?
I didn't go back and check but I thought Variel made pretty much all his roles to stealthily dispose of the rum. Sko has flat out thrown the rum away on two occasions: when he called out Peppery and again during this most recent night (though he was already feeling ill by that time).
Sko mentioned before hew went to bed that he would memorise restorative spells (assuming he gets an hour to meditate and isn't in further trouble for last night's declaration).
Hmm... I don't know if you guys did dispose of your rum, I wouldn't have seen your stealthy moves... :)
However, I am still suspicious of Plugg's motives in any case.
Sorry, we lost the entire internet/cable access until about five minutes ago. Also - in this area its possibly one of the most beautiful days we've had in about 2 months. It makes me believe that there's probably a lot of people out at the park; unlike me :)