What makes a "good" prestige class?

I think if a prestige class has a racial requirement it should be something that draws very much on the race's theme. For example, the Atavist PrC from the Eberron Campaign setting in 3.5 draws from the fact that the kalashtar race are a fusion of a Quori spirit with a family of human hosts. The prestige class allows the hosts to draw a greater understanding of the spirit, and gain abilities because of that. Thus it is logical and rational that only a Kalashtar or a 'host' being similar to them should be able to follow that class.

Wouldn't this sort of thing be handled much better and simpler by a Template? Especially if it's one that lists specific requirements to earn it so that players might have a chance at it, and some sort of inherent cost so that it's not just a giant cookie for one character?

The Illithid Savant was an awesome PrC and a really neat idea tied to race. It didn't need to be a PrC though. I can't think of a single "race-themed" PrC that does.

Dabbler wrote:

I think if a prestige class has a racial requirement it should be something that draws very much on the race's theme. For example, the Atavist PrC from the Eberron Campaign setting in 3.5 draws from the fact that the kalashtar race are a fusion of a Quori spirit with a family of human hosts. The prestige class allows the hosts to draw a greater understanding of the spirit, and gain abilities because of that. Thus it is logical and rational that only a Kalashtar or a 'host' being similar to them should be able to follow that class.

Wouldn't this sort of thing be handled much better and simpler by a Template? Especially if it's one that lists specific requirements to earn it so that players might have a chance at it, and some sort of inherent cost so that it's not just a giant cookie for one character?

The Illithid Savant was an awesome PrC and a really neat idea tied to race. It didn't need to be a PrC though. I can't think of a single "race-themed" PrC that does.

Warforged Juggernaut? Warforged.

Want me to go on? Admitedly these are for races that have some very unique features, but nonetheless they are racial classes that clearly enhance racial features that only the race in question possess.

As for pre-req's, I personally hate that you must focus your character from early on in order to enter a class. If a PrC ability absolutly NEEDS a certain feat, I can see that. Otherwise, it's just a worthless tax.

So, I would like to see an "or" pre-req. For instance:

Mobile Specialist Fighter
Prereq: Dodge, Mobility, Spring attack
-OR-
Dex 13, BAB +8

You can choose to try to get into the class ASAP, or you can just wait and get in later. Sub BAB for Caster Level for casting classes, or use BOTH for the "or" for gish classes:

Gish
Prereq: CL5, use all martial weapons
-OR-
BAB +5, CL 1

I love the idea of alternate prerequisites. And it goes well with my position that they should be things that someone going for said prestige class would take/have even if they weren't required. Something like 5 ranks in stealth is obvious good choice for an assassin so it makes a great prerequisite (even poisoners have to hide what they are doing). Having 5 ranks Stealth -or- BAB +5 sets the minimum level for entry but give options to meet it (and anyone going for assassin will most likely have 5 ranks in Stealth by the time they have BAB +5 anyway).

This could also be applied to racial prestige classes in some cases such as a (hypothetical) Dwarven Weapons Master (specializing in dwarven racial weapons) requiring race Dwarf -or- weapon specialization with 1 dwarven weapon. Granted this would not work for something like Warforged Juggernaut, as there is no real viable alternative to being a living construct.

Huh. And "OR" pre-req.

MM, that is a phenomenal idea. It does a lot to address my big concern about pre-reqs, but it doesn't remove the concept entirely.

I do hope that someone with an influence on future PRPG rules is reading this. Bravo!

I have to third the OR pre-req. Well done.

You can choose to try to get into the class ASAP, or you can just wait and get in later.

Feat requirements are more onerous than skill requirements, since feats are acquired infrequently and there are so many good ones to choose from. An -OR- prereq that uses feat requirements on the fast track only is a neat idea.

Of course that doesn't relieve the designer from the burden of choosing prereqs carefully on both -OR- tracks. It potentially makes a PrC specific build easier to tolerate.

[edit] oops, posted as the wrong avatar. this is still Doomed Hero.

Warforged Juggernaut? Warforged.
Atavist? Kalashtar.
Weretouched Master? Shifter.

Want me to go on? Admitedly these are for races that have some very unique features, but nonetheless they are racial classes that clearly enhance racial features that only the race in question possess.

You're sort of making my point for me there.

All three of those would make great templates. Hell, with the Weretouched Master you're probably a whole lot better off just tracking down an actual Lycanthrope and getting yourself bitten. (or buying their saliva from a wizard or something). With all the levels you save yourself you can then become a Warshaper and actually make your shapeshifting useful and impressive.

Warforged Juggernaut is a dip class. It would be a lot better of as some version of a Racial Paragon class, or, like the waforged scout, should just be an entirely seperate base race.

Atavist I'm not familiar with.