DM Devon's RotRL aka "The Heroes of Sandpoint"
Game Master PirateDevon

I've seen the ruling from the developers consistently that the attack occurs before the provoking action. If the target survives the AoO, they can complete the action (generally speaking - spells might be disrupted, for example).

Correct. You can't trip someone who is already prone. Heaps oftriplock threads confirm this. GM call though. If he's standingand provokes he's trippable.

Mhmm, I had forgotten to check if it ever got officially ruled on and Buhlman has spoken so Kithian is on his feet.

[gamer rant] I will say though that this is a mechanical effect that makes little sense to me and my narrative/visual brain. Its all well and good to claim, as a chain of understanding for effect resolution, that the AoO happens "before" the action but in reality that would make little sense.

Kithian wouldn't provoke before he tried to stand, he would provoke in the standing as the upward momentum of getting to his feet via whatever locomotion he attempted (hands and knees, sit up to stand, etc.) would present the obvious opportunity to take a bite at him. If that is the case then he would be transitive between prone and standing, not truly either but certainly not flat on his ass and "immune" to being knocked down...perhaps that is "too complicated" but on the flip side I do lament to a certain extent the rigidness of mechanical interpretation that such things are built around.

To be clear, I'm not upset that Kithian is on his feet. I would rather kill my players gloriously as they fight rather than through mauling them on the floor :p I just don't think the mechanics and reality reflect well of each other and maybe indicates (to me at least) where Pathfinder/3.5 still lack some polish. [/end gamer rant]

Edit: Mhmmm but then would he get the penalty for being "prone" thus making the AoO successful? See there? I used Bad Evil Touch DM logic to hurt Kithian....interesting set of issues to meditate on, there has to be a better way to express this scenario then claiming the attack happens "before" but during somehow to more accurately capture transitive states...

I could go either way as it is the DM's game, just as long as I know which way it is going so my character can act accordingly. I'd just start rolling away while the rest of the party keeps the hounds busy, then get up in safety. Otherwise, you'd never get up.

yeah exactly, I can see the need to ensure a certain fairness in letting people off the ground (hello 3.X Orcish Chain Fighter!) but then again I have a certain issue with AoO resolution anyway. (Oh hai giant samurai, your friend is on the ground and trying to stand but when I eat him you don't get to hit me! Nom nom nom)

Since the majority of the group came back with a certain understanding of the rules and it is backed by the official word of the designer I'm happy to let it play so Kithian is up.

Any attempt on my art to change that would cascade to 4 or 5 other changes that I think is too complicated to inset mid campaign.

Now it was my wife and kids turn for illness. Back on the grid, updates to follow.

Just wondering if rebuilding for new options from Advamced race guide was allowed.
I'd be interested in:
Focused Study: All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.

Just wonderin.

So you would give up skill focus to get skill focus more than once? That is so generous of you... ;p

I need to meditate on it, I'll get back to you.

I've been trying to keep a loot list on my profile. I've updated it to include these new items, but I didn't get the recent mid-battle stuff. Let me know if anything needs updating.

- The wand of silent image should go to Vidar as he's the only one to use it natively.
- I don't think anyone can use the Wand of Produce Flame without a Use Magic Device check. Who has the best chance of using that?

Here's the items we should try and sell when we get back to town (includes earlier battles):

• Studded Leather Armor (small size, taken from goblin) - 1175/2 = 587.5 gp
  
• +1 Leather Armor (small) - 1160/2 = 580 gp
  
• +1 Hide Armor (small) - 1165/2 = 582.5 gp
  
• MW Breastplate (small) - 350/2 = 175 gp
  
• Chain Shirt - 100/2 = 50 gp
  
• Studded Leather - 25/2 = 12.5 gp
  
• Light Wooden Shield (small size, taken from goblin) - 3/2 = 1.5 gp
  
• Shortbow with 20 arrows (small size, taken from goblin) - 31/2 = 15.5 gp
  
• MW Shortbow (small) - 330/2 = 165 gp
  
• Dented Crown (20 gp) - 20 gp
  
• Golden Holy Symbol of Sarenrae (100 gp) - 100 gp
  
• Jade Necklace (60 gp) - 60 gp
  
• Fine Blue Silk gown with silver trim (150 gp) - 150 gp
  

This leaves us the following items (combined with previous unassigned loot):

• MW Composite Longbow (+4 str)
  
• 4 +1 elf-bane arrows
  
• +1 dogslicer (short sword)
  
• MW Scimitar
  
• Heavy Flail
  
• 5 potions Cure Moderate Wounds
  
• 4 potions Cure Light Wounds
  
• 6 alchemist orbs (purpose unknown, 2 red, 2 green, 2 black) (Two to Camillo)
  
• 2 potions Tree Shape
  
• 2 potions Speak with Animals
  
• 1 potion of Barkskin +2
  
• Cloak of Resistance +1
  
• Wand of Produce Flame (34 charges)
  
• Everburning Torch
  

With 5 potions of Cure Moderate Wounds, one should go to everyone but me, then I could hold onto the Cure Lights for when the wand runs out. I would probably pass the Speak with Animals potions to Kithian and Toshio. And the potion of Barkskin should go to a front line fighter, Kithian? Anything else to sell, like the flail?

I think one of the orbs was used, but I'll have to go back through the posts when I get time. (Ha!)

If no one else wants the cloak of resistance, I'll take it...

Camillo has a UMD bonus of +7; he would be interested in carrying the Wand of Produce Flame if a better candidate doesn't come forward.

I think Camillo claimed a pair of of the orbs as you mention, but I don't recall that he got the opportunity to use one before his player forgot about them. ;-) They can go back into the kitty until we've identified what they are, if the party wishes.

Oh, and I assume that a night's rest allowed him to regain his level in hit points in addition to the lost CON point, so he's nearly back at full.

I could use the long bow +4 str, if no none objects.

Ok, so the only things unaccounted for at the moment are Naulias personal gear as well as the Hobgoblins?
I just want to know what they were.
I'm pretty sure the magical breastplate will be claimed. Maybe even the sword.

Camillo's pretty set for equipment at the moment. He will stay quiet until everyone else has had a turn to claim stuff. And he can't use the high-strength bow without a penalty, so he has no designs on it, regardless.

Kerrec is just interested in the MW manacles.

Vidar is right;

Nualia = +1 Breastplate, +1 Bastard Sword, Heretofore unidentified magic necklace...she drank her potions....100gp Golden Lamashtu Divine Symbol. That she be her.

Hobgoblin Commander:
+1 Studded Leather, +1 Vicious Longsword, 3 vials of drow poison, 250gp in loose change. Toshio pulled and drank one potion and he has one more on him that is a potion of Invis.

You guys already went over the wizard. OH! She is alive...Rullis and Vidar dropped her off at the jail.

I'd like the Breastplate, but hey, I am the new guy and I already owe Kerric money so...
Toshio gives up the sword with no issues.
I'll have to keep paying to enchant the Katana. It's exotic so I am not likely to find one from a drop.

I am pretty flexible about liquidating existing magic items to use on currently held objects...at some point Vidar and I should talk because I think he made some comment about going into crafting and I might have some better alternatives as far as rules systems than the straight core rulebook...I don't find the crafting rules out of the box to make much sense IMHO.

The vicious weapon sounds brutal. I'm not sure Camillo would survive using it...

Enchanting Camillo's masterwork chain shirt would be on his wish list...

I think Shalelu should have the elf-bane arrows to do with as she wishes. If she wants to destroy them, so be it.

I updated the loot list. Gave everyone a Cure Moderate Wounds potions, assigned MW Composite LongBow +4 Str to Kithian, Cloak of Resistance +1 and 4 CLW potions to myself, Wand of Produce Flame to Camillo, MW Manacles to Kerrec, +1 Breastplate to Toshio, and elf-bane arrows to Shalelu.

I'm assuming we'll also sell the Lamashtu holy symbol and the Heavy Flail. Any other assignments? Anyone notice any discrepancies? I may want to switch from the chain shirt to the +1 Studded Leather. A lot lighter for the same protection.

This brings per person total from sale to 662 gp. And if we sell anything else? Sell the viscous longsword? If we can find someone to buy it, that would be another 4157.50 gp to the kitty, over doubling our take. This would bring each persons take to 1355 gp.

I'll accept the breastplate and and my mundane one to the sell pile. (200gp sell for 1/2)

If you want Rullis, you could wear it for +6 AC. Better than the leather but medium armor.

I will throw in my Short Bow, Composite +4 STR =350g sale for half.

Kerrec will want to destroy Lamashtu's holy symbol. Can't have that recycled through Lamashtu's worshippers.

It's gold, how about just melting it down and sell the metal? Waste not, want not.

As for the crafting, sure thing, let's have a natter as soon as Vidar scrapes together enough gold to do some crafting.
Vidar will be looking to take enchant arms and armour at lv 5, so he will be avaible to do some crafting for the group then, for a small fee.

I updated the loot list. Gave everyone a Cure Moderate Wounds potions, assigned MW Composite LongBow +4 Str to Kithian, Cloak of Resistance +1 and 4 CLW potions to myself, Wand of Produce Flame to Camillo, MW Manacles to Kerrec, +1 Breastplate to Toshio, and elf-bane arrows to Shalelu.

Noted on Camillo's gear.

As a side note, I see in the ARG (maybe this was there before) an option for the human bard I had missed previously -- favored class bonus of an additional spell known. I will have to keep that in mind. I don't think I want to change anything on his build as a result of the new (or just new to me) rules, though.

Sorry for the absence, work is killer busy and with the holiday approaching I have been working desperately to get my house ready for my folks coming into town...I'll get us back on track

I noticed the floor 3 map link is broken.

Did you? Shucks. :-)

I noticed that I posted a version of the map that has all the secret doors on it. LOL. I pulled it in the hopes I could switch it out and no one would notice. O:)

It shouldn't matter from here on out only because you found the hardest one and you guys are thorough.

Hey Devon. Just checking in to make sure all is well with you.

Yeah, get better, your health is what is important.

still here. hope all is well.

Hoping you are on the road to recovery.

Yeah I am doing a lot better. Kidney Stones...don't get those!

I should have an update later today, tomorrow AM at latest. Thanks for the well wishes guys, these last few months have been rough!

Makes me hurt just thinking of it. Glad to hear you are feeling better.

Yeah, we cant stand losing you

Ouch! Hope this will be the last of them for you.

Yeah, anything in that general area of the body is best avoided.

On a different note, I wish I had cast Magic Missile, it would have made it 5 soundeffects in a row, how would the gm have managed that eh?

AND possibly 1 rounded the encounter!

Yeah yeah poor babies, you got it sooo rough ; )

Ok EVERYONE.

My "Last Rites" Group has lost 2 players and we need a new member. The DM has given me permission to invite proven players rather than him going to a recruitment thread.

I'd like to invite ALL of you to send him a PM and char submission. I'm inviting everybody to submit because everyone here is a proven regular poster and that helps keep things moving. I hate when games bog down.

Please note this game is descriptive combat only (so far) meaning DM describes positioning rather than maps. This doesn't take much away from the story as the DM is a good narrator. The pace is a bit slower than here (but I've never encountered a pbp game this fast). 1-2posts a day will do for the 'Last Rites' game.

Plotline- In a sentence? Sandpoint is beset by a Vampire and we gonna kill him.

Discussion thread here: Last Rites

Party has: Debuffer Witch (me) Falchion Weapon Master Dhampir Negative channel cleric Sage Bloodline Sorcerer.

Appreciate the invite, but I'm booked solid and already adding another - I should wait to see how that one ties me up before I consider another.

Forgot the Link

Giveing him a message to see what he recomends for the game.

FYI, sorry for the delay. Wife got sick then so did I, food poisoning or something. Will update soon.

I'll be going to Greece this Friday and be gone for a week, not sure if I'll be able to post at all during that time.

Missed BoggBear's note but I'll autopilot Vidar as needed.

Anywho, sorry for the delay in posting, with the holiday yesterday and some other logistical challenges this week I am with my son more than normal and might not be able to get online as much. Expect posts to be a little thin this week but I'll make up for it next week as best I can ;p

Not sure if I already asked.

Any chance I could retrain Toshio to be a FOCUSED STUDY human?
It gives up the first level human feat (Intimidating Prowess in my case)
for skill focus a 1st, 8th and 16th.

1st would obviously be Skill Focus: Intimidate
The others, I have no idea yet...

I think you did and I think I harassed you (as any good DM would) about how hard life would be for you to trade a feat for a similar effect and more benefit and then I gave you a dismissive "go ahead its just fun to harass you" hand wave.

So go for it ;p

Thx you're awesome.

On a road trip guys. Posting will be light for 3 days. Bot me as needed