DMDM's Wrath of the Righteous (Inactive)

Game Master Douglas Muir 406

The demons are coming. Can you stop them?


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Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

de-briefing

Another cool reason to buy that armored kilt....


Male Human Cleric 1
Spoiler:
AC 16 t.12 ff.14, hp -2/9, saves F3 R2 W7, init +2, Per +6, touch of good 7/7, calming touch 6/7, channel 1/3

Don't buy an armored kilt. It chafes a lot and Erastil wants those parts in working order to produce the next generation. ;)

Well-described foes, certainly (and the whole "bored sadist" thing was coming through quite clearly.


Balek Nine-fingered wrote:
Well-described foes, certainly (and the whole "bored sadist" thing was coming through quite clearly.

You'll notice that all their weaknesses were on the RP side. Mechanically, these guys could kill you all without breaking a sweat.

Once someone uses the scroll to ask for help, the clock is ticking. Help is on the way. The path to victory was not to fight them -- they're unbeatable in direct combat. The trick instead was to distract, delay, and buy time. The dwarf is an egotistical fanatic with no Sense Motive: fake a conversion experience, or at least draw him into a discussion of theology. Lewis is a snob; a good Knowledge (nobility) check would keep him distracted for a few rounds. Stroke his ego, appease his vanity. Ask him for a performance! Playing Team Evil against each other, while dangerous, could be another option. They're not one big happy family. They wouldn't actually fight and kill each other, but a good enough Bluff or Diplomacy check (or even just a few clever jibes) could start a screaming argument that might drag on for a while. Think Bilbo and the trolls, or Bart and Sideshow Bob.


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Balek Nine-fingered wrote:
Well-described foes, certainly (and the whole "bored sadist" thing was coming through quite clearly.

You'll notice that all their weaknesses were on the RP side. Mechanically, these guys could kill you all without breaking a sweat.

Once someone uses the scroll to ask for help, the clock is ticking. Help is on the way. The path to victory was not to fight them -- they're unbeatable in direct combat. The trick instead was to distract, delay, and buy time. The dwarf is an egotistical fanatic with no Sense Motive: fake a conversion experience, or at least draw him into a discussion of theology. Lewis is a snob; a good Knowledge (nobility) check would keep him distracted for a few rounds. Stroke his ego, appease his vanity. Ask him for a performance! Playing Team Evil against each other, while dangerous, could be another option. They're not one big happy family. They wouldn't actually fight and kill each other, but a good enough Bluff or Diplomacy check (or even just a few clever jibes) could start a screaming argument that might drag on for a while. Think Bilbo and the trolls, or Bart and Sideshow Bob.

Blarg. I almost came down the ladder at some point to inject myself (as peacefully as possible) into their conversation to stall. I think I was too focused on game mechanics and not thinking enough about their personalities -- fail!


Male Human Cleric 1
Spoiler:
AC 16 t.12 ff.14, hp -2/9, saves F3 R2 W7, init +2, Per +6, touch of good 7/7, calming touch 6/7, channel 1/3

Well, once combat starts, it's easy to start thinking purely in terms of combat...


So Blue Team's job was to delay and distract. What then of Red Team? Well, you'll notice that the villains rode off on a gigantic buzzing insect monster. (An advanced fiendish wasp, more or less.) This is the "Vrexel" that was mentioned early on, yes? Well, Vrexel was parked upstairs, just a few yards from the back exit. And he wasn't concealed particularly well -- any reasonably competent search of the area would turn him up.

Vrexel was about CR 5 -- by far the weakest link in Team Evil. Barring bad die rolls, Red Team could take Vrexel down. Once the fight was under way, you would have about three rounds to finish the job before the bad guys came boiling upstairs.

That done, it would be Game Over for the villains. The dwarf has just a 20' move. They couldn't possibly get back to the Worldwound before the rescuers show up. In a fight on open ground, the advantage is with the guys with numbers, missile weapons and Fireball spells. The demon and Lewis might escape (Lewis, no fool, has Expeditious Retreat literally in his back pocket) but the dwarf and Vidkun would almost certainly be killed or captured.

TLDR: the winning strategies were [Team Blue] delay and distract the bad guys, and/or [Team Red] find and kill their mount.


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3

Well, it was a fun introduction, even if we missed it a bit. Given your language above, I expect we don't level up? =D

I'm all for continuing into WotR if everyone else is - and I, for one, would like this kind of interaction to continue, as opposed to the hack n slash some adventures become. I enjoy the NPCs and personalities, and will do my best to develop Osei as a character who interacts more with them - though he is currently kind of a stick in the mud ...


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

I am certain that we can all have a great talk about those particular bag guys, names descriptions and an overall discussion of what could go better next time. I am certain that no one missed the utter cowardice of the (evil bad guy) mage.

SGC won't be faking conversions or telling other lies, but I do look forward to continuing the adventure.

On a side note, the other "win" might have been keeping more of team red alive ; )

Plus burning oil and driving the mount away is another "win" strategy.


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3
Sir Constantine Godalming wrote:

I am certain that no one missed the utter cowardice of the mage.

Is this regarding Osei or Cringing Robe Guy? If Osei, that's not exactly what kept him upstairs - it was less fear, and more of a rational approach to gather intelligence on the enemies. He is not a warrior, rushing into the thick of battle. Osei was wary of engaging them, yes, but it was a completely irrational thing to do in his mind. That's not his style. Maybe he's closer to a neutral alignment than 'good'. Hmm ...


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

I fixed it! Not you!


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3
Sir Constantine Godalming wrote:
I fixed it! Not you!

No worries! Just communicating my thoughts on Osei's character.


Male Human Cleric 1
Spoiler:
AC 16 t.12 ff.14, hp -2/9, saves F3 R2 W7, init +2, Per +6, touch of good 7/7, calming touch 6/7, channel 1/3

Speaking of character: yes, Balek is a little bit sententious. I figured a priest of Erastil would probably learn a lot of traditional proverbs, and do some of his thinking by quoting them, selecting the correct one, and all that. Hope the effect is coming across reasonably well and isn't driving anyone else up the wall.


Nope. I'm good with distinct character voices.


Osei Otieno wrote:

Well, it was a fun introduction, even if we missed it a bit.

No no, you didn't miss a thing. You just didn't get the "Awesome Win" version, is all. You chose something else, which is interesting in its own way.


Osei Otieno wrote:
I think I was too focused on game mechanics and not thinking enough about their personalities

The one thing everyone focused on was Cringing Robed Guy: everyone was trying to talk him around. I can see why that seemed worth trying, but no. Putting aside whether he's even redeemable, his cowardice means that you couldn't even begin to try unless you were already clearly winning against his allies. He's a coward, right? No amount of persuasion is going to get him to join a losing side.

Even once combat started, there were a few ways to leverage the NPC personalities. The dwarf hates paladins and would love to show Deskari's superiority, so challenging him to single combat could work. (Note: don't try this generally. Very few villains will accept a challenge to single combat, and even the dwarf would only do it against an obviously inferior foe. And the instant he thought he was in trouble, he'd cheat.) You'd probably end up horribly mutilated, but he'd waste a few rounds toying with you. Even in combat, Lewis could be distracted, especially with flattery. Or enraged, for instance by mocking him or -- worse yet -- throwing dirt or spitting on his white, perfectly pressed clothing. Not that enraging Lewis would necessarily be a good idea, of course. Just saying.

If NPC personalities don't affect NPC actions, for good or ill, then they're just wallpaper; the grumpy dwarf can be reskinned as the happy dwarf, and it makes no difference. That strikes me as a less-fun way to play.


Male Kobold Oracle/1

It's true. That being said, I enjoyed this romp into things and it was certainly a powerful twist from the usual formula. Typically, I think, most games either start with something relatively simple being the build up to a bigger picture, or in the case of WotR normally, paints an epic backdrop for you to start your baddie slaying quests on (say, a demon king chopping off the head of a silver dragon while you're stuck fighting maggots... wooooo...)

This one just tossed us in, and honestly, it's not bad in retrospect. Wrath of the Righteous really is about influencing NPCs as much as it is slaying demons. Why shouldn't encounters be built around similar mechanics (that is, playing to NPC personalities)? I think now that we know that going forward, we can think outside the box a bit more (after all, stalling is something that rarely comes up, and it's almost always through combat.)


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

Realistically I would hope people put ranks into sense motive. I was fighting hard to play my skill points as assigned....I think it's easy to play things you don't have....


female Human Inquisitor (Iconoclast)(Preacher)hp 3/8|AC 15|perc 8|init 1|Agile feet 7/7
Sir Constantine Godalming wrote:

Realistically I would hope people put ranks into sense motive. I was fighting hard to play my skill points as assigned....I think it's easy to play things you don't have....

for skills its easy, for intelligence its hard(which is why storys with super smart characters are rarely from their perspective), knowledge is easyer(just a little reasearch), skills (exspecialy craft) are in between in difficulty as even if you don't know how its done you still know what the result should belike( I don't know how to craft a fine chest, but describing one is easy)


Male Human Cleric 1
Spoiler:
AC 16 t.12 ff.14, hp -2/9, saves F3 R2 W7, init +2, Per +6, touch of good 7/7, calming touch 6/7, channel 1/3

Sense Motive? We've got yer Sense Motive, right here!

It's one of those things where he's probably better at it than I am...


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

I am making a huge logic leap in the game thread, but the logic is supposed to shock N out of it or make the rescuers see the need to continue rescuing....


Male Kobold Oracle/1

I think Takka is gonna study under Sir Constantine now to become a paladin proper. Probably a ranged smite machine.


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1
Takka of the Toad wrote:
I think Takka is gonna study under Sir Constantine now to become a paladin proper. Probably a ranged smite machine.

All this time Takka has been seeing SCG like an older brother, teasing each other and training, but now he suddenly sees things differently.


Got a little flattened over the weekend -- combination of work and mild sickishness. I'm away from home for six weeks in Beirut, Lebanon, and I think I'm just a bit homesick and under the weather. Spent the weekend mostly offline with a Breaking Bad marathon (Go, Mister White! Science!), but should be back in a day or so.

(Walter White starts off as Lawful Neutral, in Season Two he's now well into Lawful Evil territory, some regrets notwithstanding, and I'm pretty sure he's going to end up Neutral Evil. Skyler is Lawful Good -- annoying sometimes perhaps, but Lawful Good. Jesse looks to stay Chaotic Neutral throughout, and Tuco of course is pure perfect CE.)


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
(Walter White starts off as Lawful Neutral, in Season Two he's now well into Lawful Evil territory, some regrets notwithstanding, and I'm pretty sure he's going to end up Neutral Evil. Skyler is Lawful Good -- annoying sometimes perhaps, but Lawful Good. Jesse looks to stay Chaotic Neutral throughout, and Tuco of course is pure perfect CE.)

Such an amazing story told in that show, not a flaw in it from my point of view and every character is compelling and well-developed. I've finished through Episode 5 of the last season, but not the entire series. It is so intense, I can't mainline the last couple seasons like I could the early ones -- that and I don't want it to end, though it is the way of all things.

As far as alignments, I agree with your WW, but not Skyler - a least not later in the series; if she started LG, she ended up somewhere more in the NG or CG territory. I would put Jesse more in CG territory - he seems to have many hangups regarding violence and really taking advantage of people (mainly all talk). The only person who stays at LG would be Hank, I believe.


Midway through Season Two, Skyler is pretty clearly LG -- look at how she goes to confront Jesse for "selling marijuana" in Season One, or her attitude towards Marie's shoplifting, or her organized, rule-following, take-charge attitude towards life in general. But these characters definitely move over time, so we'll see.

Jesse isn't evil, and you could even point to some minor moments of generosity and self-sacrifice, like when he takes the rap for his little brother's joint. But OTOH I don't think a meth cook / meth dealer gets to have a G in his alignment line. He's doing a lot of damage, and he really doesn't care as long as the money's good. And you'll notice he's fine with *Walt* killing the drug dealer in the cellar. He just doesn't want to do it himself. That suggests he's not so much good as squeamish.

Hank has become a really interesting character. In the beginning he's presented as a complete meathead, a overbearing, macho doofus who's thoughtlessly belittling of Walt and also more than a bit of a sexist and a bigot. All of which are true! But he's also an honest cop who's really good at his job. He struggles with his wife's issues, tries in his way to be a backup father to Walt Jr., and offers unqualified support to Walt and Skyler. Anyway, yeah, definitely LG.

Favorite minor character so far: Tuco's uncle. Ding!


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3

I don't disagree about Skyler early in the series, but in S3 and S4 her character develops quite a bit - I would almost push her into *N territory, but I think she maintains *G. Your points about Jessie (and meth dealing in general) are fair, I'll cede the CG sentiment. CN is probably accurate. Hank is a great character, and continues to be as far as I've seen.

My memories of the earlier seasons are old, I should go back and watch them again. They would be equally, if not more, entertaining.


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

Interestingly I have never applied the alignment system to any TV show, TV character or anything like that.

I think it's an interesting topic (did I see this spawn a new thread somewhere?)


You don't want to overdo it. Most of the time, using alignment on another medium (or the real world) is a mug's game, about as meaningful as those "What Season Of The Year Are You?" quizzes on Facebook. That said, once in a while the alignments do fit neatly -- and that's pretty cool, when it happens.


M Goblin Rogue3HP 22/22,Init+4,F3R7W3Per8AC17T15FF13

So could 'Heisenberg' not only be an alter ego but Walter's way of going 'It isn't me, it is this other guy in my head' excuse?


It's all Walt IMO. It's Walt through and through. There are people who think Heisenberg is some sort of dissociation or a role Walt plays. I firmly disagree. Heisenberg was always there. It took a combination of bad luck, outside pressure, and really poor choices on Walt's part to bring him out and make him the dominant aspect. But he wasn't created out of nothing.

Subthemes of this show: Living With Problems In A Marriage; Failures of American Social Policy; and Issues In Masculinity. (Yeah, those make it sound really boring. It's... not.)


In D&D terms, I suppose you could have dull, slightly pudgy, bespectacled Mr. White the second-rate Lawful Neutral professor of alchemy, and his Mindchemist alter ego: lean, mean Heisenberg, the Man Who Knocks, Neutral Evil crime lord and stone cold killer.

Also in D&D terms, I'm midway through Season Two and Walt is totally Lawful Evil here. He's just doing what he has to do, he thinks. The junkie thieves have to die because they broke the rules and stole from him. (As opposed to CE Tuco, who would kill to create fear, or just because he felt like it.)


BTW, still hammered by a combination of work and a stomach bug, but should start posting again within the next 48 hours.


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3

Relevant.

Great scene. Rest up and feel better.


Male Kobold Oracle/1

Agreed. Just rest and take it easy.

All this talk of Breaking Bad is over my head. I never managed to sit down and watch it, and though I hear people say it's a great show, I've just never had the drive to watch it.


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3

It's probably the highest quality television show I've ever seen. Not that I'm an aficionado, but it's nearly flawless. The direction, acting (every character ...every one is great) and production are all top notch.


female Human Inquisitor (Iconoclast)(Preacher)hp 3/8|AC 15|perc 8|init 1|Agile feet 7/7
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
You don't want to overdo it. Most of the time, using alignment on another medium (or the real world) is a mug's game, about as meaningful as those "What Season Of The Year Are You?" quizzes on Facebook. That said, once in a while the alignments do fit neatly -- and that's pretty cool, when it happens.

the first explanation of the alignment system I encountered was with examples ( mainly from Harry Potter).

There are charakters that fit an alignment absolutly like The Joker or Jack Slash for CE, but more complex characters (or real people) rarely fully fit into one alignment.


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

FYI- one of the traits I went back and forth on selecting was the prehensile whip trait. I went back and forth many times on the trait selection, but alas it was not to be.


female Human Inquisitor (Iconoclast)(Preacher)hp 3/8|AC 15|perc 8|init 1|Agile feet 7/7
Sir Constantine Godalming wrote:
FYI- one of the traits I went back and forth on selecting was the prehensile whip trait. I went back and forth many times on the trait selection, but alas it was not to be.

wow, SCG is way better planed than Haruka, whose planing took aproximatly an hour :).

but I have finaly found the inspiration for her personalty I was lacking.


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

@Haruka
Yeah but the name even took awhile, I think this alias without a game has been around a long long time. I found the process be enjoyable. I recommend everyone give it a try, character creation spread out over months.....

Re: game thread.

Sorry couldn't let the only other half orc paladin I know in the city leave without a quick chat, and attempt to build a connection to both her and the Eagle Watch......


On a completely unrelated topic: If you like comics, or space-opera science fiction, or just cool stories in graphic novel form, you probably want to go read Bryan K. Vaughan's "Saga" now. It's... really good.

Also, it has Lying Cat. And if you don't like Lying Cat, I really don't know what to say to you. (And in D&D terms, Lying Cat is one of the most perfectly Lawful Neutral characters you're ever going to meet.)


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3

Re: Saga - I have the first 9 issues, but need to get caught up.


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M Goblin Rogue3HP 22/22,Init+4,F3R7W3Per8AC17T15FF13
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

On a completely unrelated topic: If you like comics, or space-opera science fiction, or just cool stories in graphic novel form, you probably want to go read Bryan K. Vaughan's "Saga" now. It's... really good.

Also, it has Lying Cat. And if you don't like Lying Cat, I really don't know what to say to you. (And in D&D terms, Lying Cat is one of the most perfectly Lawful Neutral characters you're ever going to meet.)

Lying.


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3

By the way, I'll add onto the comics recommendations: If you haven't read Bill Willingham's Fables - shame on you.


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

I think the last comic I bought was wolverine #10.

I ran out of storage for more comics......


female Human Inquisitor (Iconoclast)(Preacher)hp 3/8|AC 15|perc 8|init 1|Agile feet 7/7

I am more of a manga guy, but Saga looks interesting, I will probably give it a try :).


Male Human Cleric 1
Spoiler:
AC 16 t.12 ff.14, hp -2/9, saves F3 R2 W7, init +2, Per +6, touch of good 7/7, calming touch 6/7, channel 1/3

Fables is good, yes indeed.


Male Kobold Oracle/1

Aw, nuts! The Divine Hunter and Oath of Vengeance archetypes don't mesh. That would've been perfect for Takka. XP

Probably gonna go with the Divine Hunter. That seems more suitable for a ranged paladin.


Male Half orc Paladin 1 (redeemer archetype) AC 18 , HP 11/11, Int+1, Percep+1

I can see the divine hunter as a great fit for Takka.

I also see some really good racial feats for you to look at.
Redeemed kobold looked good to me.


People tend to either like Saga a lot, or not.

I though Fables was quite strong until the War ended, and has been gradually downhill since. I have the first five or six volumes, but then I stopped.


Mwangi Human Wizard 1
Spoiler:
HP 5/8 Init +1; Per +1 AC 15/11/14 Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

People tend to either like Saga a lot, or not.

I though Fables was quite strong until the War ended, and has been gradually downhill since. I have the first five or six volumes, but then I stopped.

I agree the war was the peak, but I very much enjoyed the Mr. Dark storyline.

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