DM Barcas - Kingmaker: Rivers Run Red

Game Master Isaac Duplechain

As Newhaven rises, threats besiege it from all directions. To the north, the news of the last heir of House Rogarvia threatens the start of a new war. To the south, an empire of trolls and monsters grows.


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Okay, a few more posts to wrap up the digestion of this story. I was going to wrap it up, but I don't want to limit you all in who you might want to speak to or what you might want to do.

A few suggestions that I think would be cool to see, though it's up to you all.
- A quiet conversation between Nikolai and Jemini about what they heard. Does Nikolai believe it possible? Does Jemini? Does this change either's feelings towards one another?
- Borodin experiencing the city. Perhaps he could remember what it was like as a bustling boomtown metropolis, or as a destroyed shell of its former self. Sanctuary would be unrecognizable from either state in its present form.


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14
DM Barcas wrote:

Okay, a few more posts to wrap up the digestion of this story. I was going to wrap it up, but I don't want to limit you all in who you might want to speak to or what you might want to do.

A few suggestions that I think would be cool to see, though it's up to you all.
- A quiet conversation between Nikolai and Jemini about what they heard. Does Nikolai believe it possible? Does Jemini? Does this change either's feelings towards one another?
- Borodin experiencing the city. Perhaps he could remember what it was like as a bustling boomtown metropolis, or as a destroyed shell of its former self. Sanctuary would be unrecognizable from either state in its present form.

Both of those would be great to see. Maybe if there are some conversations that take place in the evening or following morning the posts can be headed with an ooc date & location for separation. I'll look to make a Verik post at the conclusion of dinner for a slight NPC interaction, and then put him up at the high wall battlements in case anyone wants to find him for a chat.


I've got a couple of other threads I can explore but I will wait for the Banker to do his post before I submit anything for the following morning.


Special recognition to Borodin and Akiros for the last pair of posts. Great writing.


Male Human Samurai-Ronin 4/ Oracle-Battle 3 | AC 24/ T12/ F23, HP73, F+8/ R +4/ W +7, Init +1(Roll twice), Percep +6, Sense Motive +10

Thank you Isaac. It seems clear that we all inspire each other to write better and better all the time. Jemini's last post is another perfect example of that. I literally had a lump in my throat after reading it.

So, just want to say again how much I love being a part of this game, this creative collaborative story telling excerise we are all engaging in together. Being able to write like this, and read all these amazing posts, is a true gift, and I treasure it greatly. So, Thanks y'all!


Hi and thanks Isaac. I truly think this campaign has some of the best writing I've seen. I'm just glad to be a part of it.


Personally, I'm continuously amazed at the proclivity of some players' writing. I need to take breaks and save up, filling the gaps with more mundane stop-gap posts, before I can do something substantial.


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14
Jemini of Lebeda wrote:

Personally, I'm continuously amazed at the proclivity of some players' writing. I need to take breaks and save up, filling the gaps with more mundane stop-gap posts, before I can do something substantial.

Just want to throw my 2cp in that shorter posts aren't a problem in my book, particularly if it's player dialogue or in other ways keeps momentum going. I know all of us can come up with the big-time epic post when needed, but I like the two-sentence post just as much if it keeps the story moving along.

I think I tend to write the longer posts when we have a change of scene. In part because I'm trying to ground myself in what the character is doing, and then I can get shorter on the posts from that point.


Male Human Fighter (Archer) 6

I have a slight advantage of a close mouthed character with very direct thoughts (but that seems to be changing). I also squeeze in posts at work so that definitely crimps some of my writing, but I do hope I get interesting posts out there on a fairly regular basis.


So... maybe I lost track a little - but what is next? I assume the border trouble with trolls is resolved as part of handling Hargulka. The Darkest Timeline merger is complete and its repercussions will echo in the main thread now. Also, according to Borodin's testimony, Choral is due in 17 years only (it being 4710 now, and Borodin puts Choral's return at 4727).

...maybe it'll be time for a bit of peace and quiet and prosperity and expanding our borders. Presumably we'll run into a new adventure on the way?


I have a plan. I am just hoping for something from Nikolai to finish out this part of the story.


I've got a couple more short conversations I want to explore before we move on if that is ok.


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14
Warden Zander Orlovsky wrote:
I have a slight advantage of a close mouthed character with very direct thoughts (but that seems to be changing). I also squeeze in posts at work so that definitely crimps some of my writing, but I do hope I get interesting posts out there on a fairly regular basis.

Absolutely you do. My only concern about Zander has been that since the loss of Tandlara and Taisper being out for long stretches it can sometimes put Zander on an island in terms of who he might gravitate towards for conversation. Might be a bit easier with new characters (Elsir and Borodin) now in the mix. I need to push myself to make sure those relationship hooks are present with Verik.

EDIT: I've put Verik up to the battlements but he's open for any talky-talk for anyone that's not already posted as being elsewhere for that night. Not necessary though, so no pressure.


Male Human Samurai-Ronin 4/ Oracle-Battle 3 | AC 24/ T12/ F23, HP73, F+8/ R +4/ W +7, Init +1(Roll twice), Percep +6, Sense Motive +10

Everything awesome here as always. :)

Some questions though:
-Any word on Berrin and his mission to strike an accord between Varnhold and it's centaur allies?
-What's the state of development on the temple(shrine?) to Iomedae that Akiros has been trying to have built?
-Has Akiros had any luck in finding a priest(ess) to preside over it (hopefully a beautiful and interesting lady that our lovelorn Banker can have a chance of winning over. Or, perhaps he won't have a chance at all, or any choice in the matter when she sets her determined sites on him ; )
-What's our spymaster Halorouth up to these days? Anything interesting to report?
-And, last but not least, are Akiros and Elspeth actually married yet? Or still just engaged? (and if I'm simply forgetting, my apologies )

I think that's it...for now...


Male Human Fighter (Archer) 6
Verik of Abadar wrote:
My only concern about Zander has been that since the loss of Tandlara and Taisper being out for long stretches it can sometimes put Zander on an island in terms of who he might gravitate towards for conversation. Might be a bit easier with new characters (Elsir and Borodin) now in the mix. I need to push myself to make sure those relationship hooks are present with Verik.

That is pretty observant. Yeah, those are the two founders Zander has interacted with the most. And I think he will take easily to the two new characters, but I don't think he is uncomfortable with the others either...well, until recent events. What he is uncomfortable with is the pomp of nation ruling and nobility and that does create a mental barrier for him to overcome.

On a side but similar note, I love the way you play Verik, but in Zander's mind, that is everything he hates (not Verik himself, Verik the Banker...but that is difficult to separate isn't it?) It comes through in his personal thoughts, but I hope not too openly rude in his actions....just wanted you not to take it personally...and to keep it up. ;-)


It's only been a few weeks in-game since you all left for the centaur summit. Most of that stuff is better suited for the long-term updates. I will hopefully wrap this all up in the next couple days so that we can move onto the next part of the story. (You're all going to head out deep into the Narlmarches to the east in order to explore an abandoned elven temple discovered by the Wardens.)

I'm pretty sure that Berrin is drinking heavily with his father-in-law, and hasn't made it back yet. I'll cover his return when I jump forward.
I can finish the shrine in the same period. I'll try to think something up about a cleric to run it. Hal's report will be included there as well.

You seemed set that they were married in your last post, so I am fine if you decided that they eloped.


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14
Akiros Ismort wrote:
...hopefully a beautiful and interesting lady that our lovelorn Banker can have a chance of winning over. Or, perhaps he won't have a chance at all, or any choice in the matter when she sets her determined sites on him ; )...

I can assure all of you that, should that ever have a hint of happening, Verik will have a nice long time of showing himself to be utterly ridiculous, awkward and unintentionally comical in dealing with it.

Heh, I actually had a scene rolling around in my head for awhile now if a priestess of another faith came to the Bank to declare herself and obtain the required writ of approval to practice in Newhaven. Because, ya know, after the Gyronna cult thing there's a law that any new faiths desiring to have worship in Newhaven must obtain a writ from the High Cleric and be agreed upon by the Founders Council, and new clergy must declare themselves openly to the High Cleric (except for those of Erastil). So that might be fun to see how that plays out.

Warden Zander Orlovsky wrote:
On a side but similar note, I love the way you play Verik, but in Zander's mind, that is everything he hates (not Verik himself, Verik the Banker...but that is difficult to separate isn't it?) It comes through in his personal thoughts, but I hope not too openly rude in his actions....just wanted you not to take it personally...and to keep it up. ;-)

Yeah that makes sense, particularly in how they put up with matters of state when in Sanctuary dealing with Newhaven. I see those two disagreeing a lot over policy and backing opposite initiatives, but not really arguing a lot over it like Verik and Jhod often do. Of course, maybe when they're traveling in the field it may give us more opportunity for those kind of squabbles and some fun dialogue, at least before they get ambushed by trolls and allies-of-trolls.


Male Human Samurai-Ronin 4/ Oracle-Battle 3 | AC 24/ T12/ F23, HP73, F+8/ R +4/ W +7, Init +1(Roll twice), Percep +6, Sense Motive +10

Whoo-hoo! Dungeon Delve! Feels like it's been Forever since I played in one of those. :D

And ok cool, thanks, that all sounds great to me. Eloping is actually perfect as that is exactly what I seem them as doing. Both of them would want to avoid any and all of the political b%%s#!% that would surround it. Plus, once they are actually married, there's not a whole lot anyone else can do about it. If necessary, Elspeth would gladly have given up any claim to her noble titles.

They may have told a few close friends. But ya, so they went off somewhere and got married by...aha! ...Perfect! ; )

Grand Lodge

Male Elf Wizard (Forsight) 7 AC 13(21)/13(21)/13(21) / HP 38/38 / F +4 R +6 W +7 (+2 vs. ench) / Init. +10 / Perc. +20)

Hrm.. "explore an abandoned elven temple" I think that I will be looking forward to that.


With respect to the conversation between Elsir and Verik:

I find it interesting how there's a mental divide between elf-players. Not that there is a right or wrong in this, but I get the idea of "high elves" from Elsir, something akin to the elves in Lord of the Rings. In contrast, the Golarion elves are typically highly chaotic - comparable to gnomes, and only a smidgen more predictable than fey.

I very warmly recommend Queen of Thorns, Dave Gross' brilliant caper in Kyonin. It is not just an entertaining story, but also a great glimpse into the divided psyche of elves.

Grand Lodge

Male Elf Wizard (Forsight) 7 AC 13(21)/13(21)/13(21) / HP 38/38 / F +4 R +6 W +7 (+2 vs. ench) / Init. +10 / Perc. +20)

Interesting you should say that Jemini, much of the personality I draw from Elsir comes from the pathfinder supplement "Elves of Golarion" Specifically the bit about gods was almost taken direct from it.

"Oaths are serious business. On Golarion, elves, with their nigh-unlimited lifespans, know that a broken promise is capable of following someone long after bones have healed or money’s been spent. Though folk of other races might offer a pledge with fingers crossed, most elves do their best to honor their obligations, even including those with a streak of larceny in their hearts.

This applies even more so when making a bargain with a deity. Whether a formal prayer at an altar or merely a few words mumbled in a moment of weakness, elves view a debt to a god or goddess as the highest of all obligations."

The bit about Honor is also mentioned somewhere else in the book:

Honor
"Elven honor has little to do with battle, property rights, or even personal morality, and everything to do with friendship. Honor to an elf is keeping his or her word, delivering on all bargains, providing for family and friends, and seeking and following divine guidance.

Making and maintaining friendships are paramount to elven honor, and they go about selecting their friends carefully, perhaps pleasantly associating with another individual for decades before naming that person “friend.” Honorific obligations of friendship are separate from familial ties. Wise elves also often count family members among their friends, but a different set of social obligations exists there, one arguably subordinate to the honor-bound duty owed to friends. After all, an elf ’s family tree is large, and may spread across worlds. One’s friends are nearby, and vital to life, joy, and survival.

Wronging a friend for any reason is dishonorable. In the freedom-loving elven world, forcing one’s will on a friend is dishonorable. Just as it would be an ineffective and insulting act to cast an enchantment spell on another elf, no elf would attempt to enforce behavior by telling a friend what to do. They often skirt around this issue neatly by answering what they would do in that situation or what others have done in the past, but most try to limit themselves to an informative rather than authoritarian role except when directly asked for advice or help.

Non-elves sometimes accuse elves of hypocrisy, because these two tenets can be seen to clash—wouldn't it be wrong to let a friend walk off a cliff when an elf could intervene? This can be a tricky path for an elf. An elf ’s concern can seem like offhanded comments to the non-elf mind. A phrase such as, “If you wait and reconsider, you might see a different viewpoint,” is about the strongest argument or word of advice most elves give to a friend without being asked. Fortunately, the simple presentation of information is not bound by the codes of honor, and an elf who would never think of advising might happily present enough information—and in such an obviously negative light—that the recipient would immediately rethink his actions. In general, when an elf speaks, the short-lived races would do well to listen."

I agree with you that pathfinder has tried to skew the common tropes of elves away from the standard, and yet when I read much of the cannon surrounding them, I find very similar threads.


Last call for the current stories. I am jumping ahead to fall of 4710, after a fairly successful summer. I should write it late tonight or sometime tomorrow.

HeroLab also added kingdoms, so I used it to update Newhaven. You'll find it in the campaign tab.

Since we are jumping forward in time, what would you all recommend for the nation's strategy? You currently have 9 BP, but that will grow to 25 at the beginning of Pharast 4710. (It looks like I am two months behind.) We will resume in Rova 4710, giving us 7 months worth of actions to take. That is roughly 125 BP worth of income, plus or minus 12ish.


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14

Looking to run probably just one-two more posts after Elsir's response post - I'll keep an eye out for it so I can get it in without too much delay

EDIT: Just sayin' (but not snarking) that it would be really worthwhile for Nikolai to have a reply post to Jemini's revelations to him. Kinda a big deal, and any post response (however small or large) would be better than none at all.


Thanks Elsir - I was thinking some of it seemed familiar. Elsir (the character) does, by necessity, straddle an awkward line in terms of elven heritage versus the nature of a philosopher.

Grand Lodge

Male Elf Wizard (Forsight) 7 AC 13(21)/13(21)/13(21) / HP 38/38 / F +4 R +6 W +7 (+2 vs. ench) / Init. +10 / Perc. +20)

I'm enjoying this conversation and should have it wrapped up soon. I tend to post once a day and I like where the discussion between Elsir and Verik is going.

On another note, I know it may be some time before it happens, but what would be the best way for going about the establishment of a pathfinder lodge, Kingdom Building mechanics wise


Quote:
"Mmmm. That is...honestly not very good at all."

Well if Verik wasn't such a cheap bastard maybe that kid would have brewed you some good tea. Hmm?

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Just damn near made myself cry.

Silver Crusade

Male Human 8th Lvl Expert
Steven T. Helt wrote:
Just damn near made myself cry.

Really well done Steven - I'm glad you got some time this weekend to write that out. I'm sitting here this morning rooting for Nikolai to "see" what he needs to and he just doesn't get it...yet...but there's this outside hope that he will someday stop deceiving himself and allow himself to get past all of the things that weigh him down so that he can truly become who needs to be. But it's not today that he can do it, not even with all of these revelations. Great stuff and very difficult to balance it all on the knife's edge.


Yes, that was awesome Steven. Then again this last week has been so impressive.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

Playing Nikolai is torturous. I wouldn't have it any other way. I am just really attracted to morally complicated, internally conflicted characters. That, or complicated builds and multiple personalities.

Thanks, guys. This game is special to me and I love every player and character.


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14
DM Barcas wrote:

HeroLab also added kingdoms, so I used it to update Newhaven. You'll find it in the campaign tab.

Since we are jumping forward in time, what would you all recommend for the nation's strategy? You currently have 9 BP, but that will grow to 25 at the beginning of Pharast 4710. (It looks like I am two months behind.) We will resume in Rova 4710, giving us 7 months worth of actions to take. That is roughly 125 BP worth of income, plus or minus 12ish.

I was going to look at this today, as I'm enthusiastic about the revised Ultimate Campaign rules, which are also available in the PRD. My statement would be that with the change in the player base from the last time we discussed this, let's see if there are at least three or four players who are willing (and able to short-post with frequency) to get into the details of kingdom building and make the decisions and rolls to grow Newhaven in OOC chat. I personally enjoy this aspect of Kingmaker and like the connection between what we decide to build and how it translates to in-game play. Certainly it helps me to sort out how Verik has to evolve with what he's part of.

That being said, I looked at the Campaign Info tab this morning to see about translating the Hero Lab Kingdom stats my understanding of the Ultimate Campaign section, and see that it's already been updated through Arodus 4710. Now the choices on hexes, hex improvements and buildings look sound (maybe we would have made some different choices in hex choice or building selection but probably not by much), as do the overall Kingdom stats (Economy/Stability/Loyalty), so I have no complaints to the choices made. I love the growth of both the size and capability of the Newhaven army. Still, I'd rather have involvement going forward in this aspect of the Kingmaker campaign, unless I'm the only player that is interested in it, at which point I will concede. Am I the only guy interested at this point?


I know Elsir is interested.

I tried to work out what people wanted, especially if it was specifically requested. Hence, a Shrine of Iomedae for Akiros, a Temple of Abadar for Verik, a Mint for Oleg, an expanded army to defend the trolls, and a Library as the start of the Lodge. I expanded a fair amount in the area between Sanctuary and Olegsgrav because I thought it would make sense to have more than a narrow area connecting the two; I also expanded to the east of Newhaven to reflect the increased projection of power in that direction. I tried to be as organic as possible.


If there is any misgiving regarding a Pathfinder Lodge, it is that those Pathfinders cannot leave sleeping dogs rest. ;)


Since we got new people around, I think I should reiterate: I've got no interest to directly impact the kingdom building; all the other players can have a blast with it :)

Jemini's input on the matter is a core of strong (mandatory?) education for both boys and girls; and a leaning to religious diversity. To the later end she particularly supports developments that include aspects of Irori, Iomedae and/or Sarenrae.

Also, given her background, she promotes Lebeda interests in terms of making use of her family favored businesses and contacts to on the one hand get things cheaper, and on the other hand strengthen the position of her house.

Grand Lodge

Male Elf Wizard (Forsight) 7 AC 13(21)/13(21)/13(21) / HP 38/38 / F +4 R +6 W +7 (+2 vs. ench) / Init. +10 / Perc. +20)

Personally, I am onboard with with a larger hand in Kingdom Building, but I like how Barcas takes our descriptions and conversations and turns those actions into events. The kingdom growth makes sense as does the new buildings.


Male Human Samurai-Ronin 4/ Oracle-Battle 3 | AC 24/ T12/ F23, HP73, F+8/ R +4/ W +7, Init +1(Roll twice), Percep +6, Sense Motive +10

I know the time for it has likely slipped away, and that I should have mentioned something earlier, but I'll put it out there anyway.

@Steven: I don't know if you caught the looks Akiros was giving Nikolai during the tales of future past, but I wanted you to know that should Nikolai wish to discuss with Akiros the things they heard, and the implications of the many things they didn't directly hear, Akiros, as the closest thing Nikolai has to a friend, and certainly the one (except perhaps for Jemini) who knows him best, would definitely willing to have that conversation. He would likely not seek Niko out for it though.

Perhaps they could run into each other as Akiros makes his way back from sitting fire with Borodin. If it doesn't work out though, no worries at all.


Male Human Magus (Kensai) 5/Rogue UN (Roof Runner) 3: AC 22/18/14 / HP 70 / F +10 R +9 W +8 / Init. +5 / Perc. +12 / Sense Motive +8

I'm interested in the Kingdom Building but since Borodin is kind of out of place/time and isn't a Founder, I don't think, story-wise, he should have any input at this time.


Male Human Samurai-Ronin 4/ Oracle-Battle 3 | AC 24/ T12/ F23, HP73, F+8/ R +4/ W +7, Init +1(Roll twice), Percep +6, Sense Motive +10

Oh, one important question, one is the defense of Olegsgrav like? What with the oncoming war with the trolls, that should definitely be a priority. How big is the garrison there? And it is walled, right?


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14
DM Barcas wrote:

I know Elsir is interested.

I tried to work out what people wanted, especially if it was specifically requested. Hence, a Shrine of Iomedae for Akiros, a Temple of Abadar for Verik, a Mint for Oleg, an expanded army to defend the trolls, and a Library as the start of the Lodge. I expanded a fair amount in the area between Sanctuary and Olegsgrav because I thought it would make sense to have more than a narrow area connecting the two; I also expanded to the east of Newhaven to reflect the increased projection of power in that direction. I tried to be as organic as possible.

I think your choices are sound Isaac. I like the Garrison upgrade and the Library concept for the Lodge's start. A Mint may be a little pricey for Olegsgrav but it's cool in the way that you suggest it - plus there's the gold coming down from the mountain mine to support it. I may have promoted an Orphanage or Park or Monument in Sanctuary, maybe an Inn or Dancing Hall for the livelier side of Sanctuary, but the bottom line is that you have our Stability score up above the Control DC, which was a growing weakness of ours previous to the turns. I like that you pushed south across the Gudrin to give us a better foothold down there.

I would say that if myself, Celeador and Khaladon or Cromlich (or both) are interested in putting some time to it, we get a shot at running the turn for Rova when that makes sense. Each of us can take the duty of a roll in line with a phase of the turn, work out the priorities and see how we do. Even if Lorekeeper and Steven don't want to run the logistics of it or don't have the time to do it, they'd still get veto power if they saw something truly objectionable in OOC. I think it would be cool to try.

So things I'd like to have added to the Campaign Info Tab concerning Newhaven is the current Treasury in BP, and the Consumption Rate in BP. Maybe I missed it but I don't see those on the Hero Lab stat blocks.

Also, I suppose if Verik is getting a new Bank (Temple) I need to put some thought into how that is going to look with a five-month flash-forward here.


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14
Akiros Ismort wrote:
Oh, one important question, one is the defense of Olegsgrav like? What with the oncoming war with the trolls, that should definitely be a priority. How big is the garrison there? And it is walled, right?

The way I understand it Khaladon, neither Olegsgrav or Sanctuary are walled. Sanctuary has a +8 Defense for an army defending it due to the Castle, but we lost the Barracks defense bonus when it was upgraded to a Garrison (still worth it though). Olegsgrav has no defensive buildings. Cheapest building for Olegsgrav would be a 6BP Barracks for +2 Defense, but 8BP of City Walls would be +4 Defense (but would take longer to construct).

Building walls in the old system were kinda lame, but in the new rules they look like a good buy: 2BP and +1 Defense per side w/ four sides possible. So does a moat for Sanctuary perhaps.

EDIT: The larger army and newly mobile cavalry force is awesome. I need to understand the army building and monthly maintenance/cost rules better, but we need to build up an archer force, as that gives us a starting "free" attack versus an opposing force that lacks ranged weaponry.

EDIT to the EDIT: In reading the Mass Combat rules on the PRD just now, I'm thinking neither army is based in Olegsgrav. Our infantry is quartered in the Sanctuary Garrison, and the cavalry is quartered in the Sanctuary Castle. This puts both armies in "reserve" status, which is important so that we only pay the army's Consumption monthly instead of weekly (ouch) as when they are deployed in the field.

Olegsgrav has no settlement buildings to hold a force in reserve (Barracks, Watchtower, Garrison, Castle, etc.), but its Stables are the reason we can create a mounted army in the first place.

Yeah, adding a Ranged option to our main foot army is really costly. Probably better to setup a third force of ranged archers when we can build a suitable building to quarter/reserve them in.


Olegsgrav has no defenses per se, but the armies stationed in Sanctuary can get there in a few days.

The biggest limitation for a nation's armies is the necessity of a place to garrison them. The quadrupled cost of a deployed army is quite cost-prohibitive.

Grand Lodge

Male Elf Wizard (Forsight) 7 AC 13(21)/13(21)/13(21) / HP 38/38 / F +4 R +6 W +7 (+2 vs. ench) / Init. +10 / Perc. +20)
Verik of Abadar wrote:
Akiros Ismort wrote:
Oh, one important question, one is the defense of Olegsgrav like? What with the oncoming war with the trolls, that should definitely be a priority. How big is the garrison there? And it is walled, right?

The way I understand it Khaladon, neither Olegsgrav or Sanctuary are walled. Sanctuary has a +8 Defense for an army defending it due to the Castle, but we lost the Barracks defense bonus when it was upgraded to a Garrison (still worth it though). Olegsgrav has no defensive buildings. Cheapest building for Olegsgrav would be a 6BP Barracks for +2 Defense, but 8BP of City Walls would be +4 Defense (but would take longer to construct).

Building walls in the old system were kinda lame, but in the new rules they look like a good buy: 2BP and +1 Defense per side w/ four sides possible. So does a moat for Sanctuary perhaps.

EDIT: The larger army and newly mobile cavalry force is awesome. I need to understand the army building and monthly maintenance/cost rules better, but we need to build up an archer force, as that gives us a starting "free" attack versus an opposing force that lacks ranged weaponry.

EDIT to the EDIT: In reading the Mass Combat rules on the PRD just now, I'm thinking neither army is based in Olegsgrav. Our infantry is quartered in the Sanctuary Garrison, and the cavalry is quartered in the Sanctuary Castle. This puts both armies in "reserve" status, which is important so that we only pay the army's Consumption monthly instead of weekly (ouch) as when they are deployed in the field.

Olegsgrav has no settlement buildings to hold a force in reserve (Barracks, Watchtower, Garrison, Castle, etc.), but its Stables are the reason we can create a mounted army in the first place.

Yeah, adding a Ranged option to our main foot army is really costly. Probably better to setup a third force of ranged archers when we can build a suitable building to quarter/reserve them in.

Something interesting I note is that nearly 10% of the population serves in Newhaven's two armies. The only real life comparison of similar counties by percentage are Israel, Cuba, South Korea and Lebanon.


Male Human Samurai-Ronin 4/ Oracle-Battle 3 | AC 24/ T12/ F23, HP73, F+8/ R +4/ W +7, Init +1(Roll twice), Percep +6, Sense Motive +10

Hmmm, ok. I haven't read any of the kingdom building rules yet, but my thought that Olegsgrav had walls is based on my vague memory of when I Akiros first encountered the founders and they were hiding behind a gated wall from the Stag Lord's bandits.

Anyway, awesome update boss! Nothing at all I need to change or add. Having archers would be a great advantage, if we can manage to afford it. Are there any industries or business' that we (the PCs) can start up to earn extra cash? Like Verik's flying entertainment for example, just on a bigger scale?

Only things for the future at present are the eventual upgrading of the Iomeadean shrine to a full temple (smaller than Verik's of course ; ) and then those other little things I PM'd ya about. Again, with the understanding that they will take time.

Oh, one last thing I just remembered, from...back a while ago I guess, but I don't think I ever got around to checking Akiros' Wealth per level. I'm pretty sure he's a fair bit under though. To be honest, I hardly even remember how to do it. So, um, if any active, intelligent, well versed in the rules and incredibly kind hearted soul (cough, VORDUVAI, cough, cough) feels like giving Akiros a once over, I'd be most grateful. No pressure though! ^-^


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14
Akiros Ismort wrote:
Oh, one last thing I just remembered, from...back a while ago I guess, but I don't think I ever got around to checking Akiros' Wealth per level. I'm pretty sure he's a fair bit under though. To be honest, I hardly even remember how to do it. So, um, if any active, intelligent, well versed in the rules and incredibly kind hearted soul (cough, VORDUVAI, cough, cough) feels like giving Akiros a once over, I'd be most grateful. No pressure though! ^-^

Hehe. Consider it done - I'm thinking we're playing around at the 16000gp mark right now, with the items that Verik has crafted already (noted in my Vorduvai profile) at cost. Let me see what that comes out to.


It's not quite that bad. There are 600 soldiers, and approximately a total population of 13,000. More like 5%. Which is still high.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2013

I think Nikolai will look into building a small settlement by the lake....near where we camped. That seemed like a great area, and it might be tactically vital. But I don't have a map, so I don't know where that area is.

I obviously have to roleplay one or two scenes at the worg moot, and I would like to continue Nikolai's development as a leader and statesman.

I know this might be a little ambitious, but I'd like to spend some time outside troll territory, raiding them with dragonsbreath and killing a few of them off...to send a signal to the nomen who sided with them and irritate their forces. If we level up, I'll put some ranks in Survival to increase my ability to live off the land while ambushing them.


That location is fairly far away. It would take a few years to get there organically, but less than a year if that was the target.

Sure. Write it up in narrative format. Bring the worgs, too.


Male Human Samurai-Ronin 4/ Oracle-Battle 3 | AC 24/ T12/ F23, HP73, F+8/ R +4/ W +7, Init +1(Roll twice), Percep +6, Sense Motive +10

You da best Vorduvai ;)

Akiros would be eager to ride with Nikolai on the troll hunt, if his duties as Marshall allow.

Also, might be a good idea for perhaps the rangers, with one or more Founders, to figure if possible what happened with that disappeared village, no?


Male Human Cleric (Abadar) 7th / Fighter 1st / AC 24/10T/24F / HP 61 / F +10 R +3 W +11 / Init. +0 / Perc. +5 / Sense Motive +14

Work is heavy this week for me, but I'm looking to get another post back to Elsir in Desnus time - as part of it there will be a reference to Tandlara's condition, so just FYI on that.

Then I'll get going on the Verik "interlude 5+ months" post to talk about changes and growth in his area of Newhaven. I'm going to make an assumption that the new "Bank" has just been completed the month before, and describe some transition with the old Bank and the Keyhouse, as well as some new NPC's...one of which may cause a bit of a stir possibly with Akiros and Zander! So I'll get that going in the next couple of evenings here.


I think I should tell the anecdote of what happened when I was playing Kingmaker with my real-life group several years ago: essentially each PC could determine the development of one city (there were enough for each player by then). My character had a converted palace (ancient elven castle) to start with, then added (speaking from memory:) a noble estate, temple, theater - and the entire rest of the city grid was covered in a symmetrical design of parks and monuments.

The rest of the players had a face-palm reaction to my town. I liked it. Cultural center for the kingdom. ;)

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