Curse of the Crimson Throne

Game Master Something Wicked

Oftentimes, to win us to our harm, the instruments of darkness tell us truths, win us with honest trifles, to betray's in deepest consequence.

Respect Points: 2

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Hey guys! We've moved and are unpacking. New job and necessary cleaning/renovations on this old house and its acreage are still taking up nearly all of my free time. We also don't yet have wifi (we're in the country and our options are satellite or paying cable to dig a line out to the property), and I can't really do the GM thing from my phone. Posting from work is very difficult. As to PbP in general, I've had to push everything to the back burner, even withdrawing from most of my games.

I don't want to cancel the game (it means a lot to me), but it does look like we're on an indefinite hiatus while I wait to resolve my internet access problem.


Female Human Unchained Rogue/11 HP 93/93; AC 21 T 15 FF16; Fort+5 Ref+12/14 Will+5; Init+5; Perception+16/19, Sense Motive +16

I grew up in the country and for the longest time all we had was dial-up...I feel your pain :)

It's been fun! You know where to find me when you figure out Internet.


NG Male Human (Chelaxian) Alchemist (chirugeon) 6 CMB +4, CMD 16 | Fort. +8, Ref. +7, Will +4 | Init. +2 | Perc. +10, Sense Motive +1 | Speed 30ft |

Yeah, thanks for letting us know and I'm sure you'll figure something out. Keep in touch.


Female Half-elf HP 41/76 (5nl)| AC 21/FF 16/ T 15 | Per +13 | F: 9 | R: 10 | W: 9 | Init +5 Brawler 11

Hiatus happens. Do what you've got to do - Korvosa will still be here when you get back.


Barbarian 10/Fighter 1 | HP 66/104 | DR 5/- | AC 27, T 15 FF 21 | Fort +14, Ref +7, Will +6 (+7 Superstition) | CMD 29 | Init +2 | Perception +15

Hey, no worries! We'll wait for as long as we have to. I hope everything's going well in the new place!


Female Shoanti Shaman 11 (Lore) HP: 2/89 | 28/28 | AC 25/13/23 | F+9 R+9 W+15 | Per +13 Init +7 | Hex DC 20

I'm happy to wait until you sort things out.


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I logged in today to find the game in inactive status. It's a bittersweet feeling because although I have decided to officially throw in the towel, it's tough to see a good thing come to an end.

You've all been true all-stars in our game, committing to detailed storytelling, inspired roleplaying, and just good, solid writing. Although the GM is the one turning the pages, it's truly the players who tell the story. So thank you, thank you, thank you for telling our story as far as it's gone. I'm sorry it can't go on longer. Part of me wishes it would. But another part of me, a stronger part, is relieved. It wasn't until I had stepped back from all gaming that I saw how much time it can take (at least, if you want to do it well). And I just don't have that kind of time anymore.

It took me too long to log in and say goodbye, almost certainly because I do hate to see it come to an end. I do apologize for leaving us hanging. If I have re-activated the campaign, I'll wait just a couple of days, then make sure the game is deactivated once again.

If I do return to PbP I look forward to catching up with you all and seeing what amazing adventures you're having in Golarion and beyond. Take care!


Female Shoanti Shaman 11 (Lore) HP: 2/89 | 28/28 | AC 25/13/23 | F+9 R+9 W+15 | Per +13 Init +7 | Hex DC 20

Thank you for an amazing time in Korvosa and all the best in your future endeavours! I have learned much about character building and storytelling thanks to this campaign, and while I am sorry that you have to step back, I completely understand that other things must take priority in your life.

We make a great crew, so perhaps if someone else is willing to pick up the torch we can still continue our adventures.


Barbarian 10/Fighter 1 | HP 66/104 | DR 5/- | AC 27, T 15 FF 21 | Fort +14, Ref +7, Will +6 (+7 Superstition) | CMD 29 | Init +2 | Perception +15

I was just travelling to my new place for my new job and I decided to give this magnificent game one more look. Probably not the last. Don't know if someone is going to read this or not, but I feel those are words I need to write.

This has been, hands down, the most amazing PbP experience in my life, and quite possibly one of the best campaigns I'll ever have. Every single person in it is an amazing roleplayer and a storyteller, and it has been truly an honour to be part of this with you all.

As for picking up the torch, I am afraid I can't do so. I have finally got a job in my field, and it's looking to be great. That leaves me with precious little time for PbP, sadly. That, and I can't imagine trying to fill Wicked's shoes, because he is an amazing storyteller.

While we might not be there to see it, I'd like to think Korvosa has the heroes it needed. Thank you once again, everyone, for this experience.


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That's really nice of you to say. Glad it's been a good experience!

On that note, Yazi has proposed finding another GM to take it over so that you can continue. I'm glad to help with that as best I can. Who's interested in continuing on?


Female Shoanti Shaman 11 (Lore) HP: 2/89 | 28/28 | AC 25/13/23 | F+9 R+9 W+15 | Per +13 Init +7 | Hex DC 20

One option is to seek another GM on the boards, not from this group. I have seen games successfully taken over before, the trick is to find the right person and offer the right incentive (aka cookies).


Female Human Unchained Rogue/11 HP 93/93; AC 21 T 15 FF16; Fort+5 Ref+12/14 Will+5; Init+5; Perception+16/19, Sense Motive +16

All good things must come to an end, I guess. Real life must always take priority. Thanks for everything. I've had a blast.


Male Human HP 87/92 | AC 18/ FF 12/ T 16 | Per +7 | F: 8/ R: 7/ W: 10 | Init +5 | Active Conditions: Mage Armor, Overland Flight

It was a wonderful game. But if we can find a way to continue, I'd be up for it!


Female Shoanti Shaman 11 (Lore) HP: 2/89 | 28/28 | AC 25/13/23 | F+9 R+9 W+15 | Per +13 Init +7 | Hex DC 20

Recruitment thread is up. Now we wait.


Female Half-elf HP 41/76 (5nl)| AC 21/FF 16/ T 15 | Per +13 | F: 9 | R: 10 | W: 9 | Init +5 Brawler 11

Now we wait. Ordinarily I'd volunteer, but I just don't have time and energy to GM another game up to my standard.


Male Human HP 87/92 | AC 18/ FF 12/ T 16 | Per +7 | F: 8/ R: 7/ W: 10 | Init +5 | Active Conditions: Mage Armor, Overland Flight

If we don't find anybody I might be up for running it.


Barbarian 10/Fighter 1 | HP 66/104 | DR 5/- | AC 27, T 15 FF 21 | Fort +14, Ref +7, Will +6 (+7 Superstition) | CMD 29 | Init +2 | Perception +15

Hey again, all! I'm most definitely interested in continuing this, problem for me being I'll probably be quiet for a couple of days up to a week. I've managed to find a job in my field, but sadly that meant having to move from Scotland to England, and I'll need time to setup with internet and all that.

I'll keep an eye on the thread, though! I hope everyone's been doing fine in the past couple of months.


Male Human HP 87/92 | AC 18/ FF 12/ T 16 | Per +7 | F: 8/ R: 7/ W: 10 | Init +5 | Active Conditions: Mage Armor, Overland Flight

So we all happy with Branding? He writes very well and knows his stuff. I'd love to have him on.


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I'm glad to see such a quick response to the recruitment. I'm really glad to see The campaign go on! The choice is yours and, once made, I'll contact the GM.


Female Shoanti Shaman 11 (Lore) HP: 2/89 | 28/28 | AC 25/13/23 | F+9 R+9 W+15 | Per +13 Init +7 | Hex DC 20

Branding sounds like an excellent choice, indeed.


Barbarian 10/Fighter 1 | HP 66/104 | DR 5/- | AC 27, T 15 FF 21 | Fort +14, Ref +7, Will +6 (+7 Superstition) | CMD 29 | Init +2 | Perception +15

Yep! I managed to take a peak into the posts and campaigns they've ran, and it does seem like a good fit.

I'll be quite busy over the following week trying to set up my new place, so I'll be checking the thread, but I may not have time to post.


Female Human Unchained Rogue/11 HP 93/93; AC 21 T 15 FF16; Fort+5 Ref+12/14 Will+5; Init+5; Perception+16/19, Sense Motive +16

If that's the consensus, I'm in :)


Male Human HP 87/92 | AC 18/ FF 12/ T 16 | Per +7 | F: 8/ R: 7/ W: 10 | Init +5 | Active Conditions: Mage Armor, Overland Flight

Anybody heard from Pietro?


NG Male Human (Chelaxian) Alchemist (chirugeon) 6 CMB +4, CMD 16 | Fort. +8, Ref. +7, Will +4 | Init. +2 | Perc. +10, Sense Motive +1 | Speed 30ft |
Lord Talfryn Blackoak wrote:
Anybody heard from Pietro?

If you all think he would be a good fit then I'm in as well.

I had placed this campaign into the 'no view' status. I'll try to reverse that so I get updates again.


NG Male Human (Chelaxian) Alchemist (chirugeon) 6 CMB +4, CMD 16 | Fort. +8, Ref. +7, Will +4 | Init. +2 | Perc. +10, Sense Motive +1 | Speed 30ft |
Dr. Pietro Bartori wrote:
Lord Talfryn Blackoak wrote:
Anybody heard from Pietro?

If you all think he would be a good fit then I'm in as well.

I had placed this campaign into the 'no view' status. I'll try to reverse that so I get updates again.

Does anybody know how to 'unhide' this campaign so it shows up in my homepage?


Male Human HP 87/92 | AC 18/ FF 12/ T 16 | Per +7 | F: 8/ R: 7/ W: 10 | Init +5 | Active Conditions: Mage Armor, Overland Flight

I had to do the same thing. Go to the general play by post forum, and click the top right little circle with a line through it to show hidden posts. Then find this thread and click on the far right of it to permanently unhide it.

Also, I think that's everyone in favor!


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Great, I've sent BrOp a PM, so you can probably expect a communication soon. It will take a while to catch up. I'm going to keep following along, of course, and help out as much as I can.

Scarab Sages

Hi folks, just wanted to stop by and quickly say hi while I'm catching up on the campaign. Thanks for offering me the GMing job, and I hope that we can continue this great game soon.

Do you have any questions for me?


Male Human HP 87/92 | AC 18/ FF 12/ T 16 | Per +7 | F: 8/ R: 7/ W: 10 | Init +5 | Active Conditions: Mage Armor, Overland Flight

Welcome! No questions here. Eager to get back into the game, and happy you're taking the helm :)

Scarab Sages

One thing that I could mention is the way I would like to handle initiative in combat.

I break down initiative into sections of PCs, grouped around monster initiative counts, and let PCs act in posting order within their section rather than having to wait for their exact initiative count to come around.

For example, let's say you roll initiative and get: Lord Blackoak, monster group 1, Dr. Bartori, "Li", monster group 2, Garvid, Yaziyah, and Mouse. In the first round of combat, Lord Blackoak goes first, followed by monster group 1. After monster group 1 has posted their actions, Dr. Bartori and Li go in POSTING ORDER. That means that whoever posts first, goes first. After that, Garvid, Yazihay, Mouse, Dr. Bartori, and Li go, once again in posting order. Since there are no monster initiatives at the "bottom" of the rounds, you simply loop around to the next round and include Dr. Bartori and Li into the next section.

This method cuts down on lag time waiting for folks to post, while still maintaining most of the advantages of having high initiative.

What do you think?


NG Male Human (Chelaxian) Alchemist (chirugeon) 6 CMB +4, CMD 16 | Fort. +8, Ref. +7, Will +4 | Init. +2 | Perc. +10, Sense Motive +1 | Speed 30ft |
Branding Opportunity wrote:

One thing that I could mention is the way I would like to handle initiative in combat.

I break down initiative into sections of PCs, grouped around monster initiative counts, and let PCs act in posting order within their section rather than having to wait for their exact initiative count to come around.

For example, let's say you roll initiative and get: Lord Blackoak, monster group 1, Dr. Bartori, "Li", monster group 2, Garvid, Yaziyah, and Mouse. In the first round of combat, Lord Blackoak goes first, followed by monster group 1. After monster group 1 has posted their actions, Dr. Bartori and Li go in POSTING ORDER. That means that whoever posts first, goes first. After that, Garvid, Yazihay, Mouse, Dr. Bartori, and Li go, once again in posting order. Since there are no monster initiatives at the "bottom" of the rounds, you simply loop around to the next round and include Dr. Bartori and Li into the next section.

This method cuts down on lag time waiting for folks to post, while still maintaining most of the advantages of having high initiative.

What do you think?

I'm very much on board with this initiative method (probably because it's what I use in my games :)).

I would even go as much as asking you to NOT split up 'monsters' unless they are really different. If we are fighting 5 orcs then all orcs go at the same time.

Questions for you...

What time (s) do you usually post?

How often will you post and how often do you expect players to post?


Female Half-elf HP 41/76 (5nl)| AC 21/FF 16/ T 15 | Per +13 | F: 9 | R: 10 | W: 9 | Init +5 Brawler 11

Woohoo new GM! Welcome, Opportunity. :) Thanks for stepping up!


Female Shoanti Shaman 11 (Lore) HP: 2/89 | 28/28 | AC 25/13/23 | F+9 R+9 W+15 | Per +13 Init +7 | Hex DC 20

Thank you for un-orphaning us. I'm on board with that initiative style, it is being used in several other games that I'm in.

Scarab Sages

Dr. Pietro Bartori wrote:
I would even go as much as asking you to NOT split up 'monsters' unless they are really different. If we are fighting 5 orcs then all orcs go at the same time.

Yup, that's generally what I do as well.

Dr. Pietro Bartori wrote:

Questions for you...

What time (s) do you usually post?

I am generally online during the week between 9 AM and 3 PM MST.

Dr. Pietro Bartori wrote:
How often will you post and how often do you expect players to post?

I will post at least once or twice a day (generally more often) during the week, and expect players to post at least once a day during the week as well. Weekends are a bit more free-form, as most folks (including myself) often have other RL obligations.

Scarab Sages

Another thing is that I will probably not be running every encounter as written in the original, if that's okay with everyone. I have found that some encounters are included simply to fill an XP quota, and don't really add anything to the story that we're trying to tell. If I feel that's the case, I will leave them out. I generally just tell everyone to level up when we reach the end of a section, and it makes sense.

Wicked, have you been bumping the CRs of the encounters considering it's a party of six PCs that are 25-pt buy?


Barbarian 10/Fighter 1 | HP 66/104 | DR 5/- | AC 27, T 15 FF 21 | Fort +14, Ref +7, Will +6 (+7 Superstition) | CMD 29 | Init +2 | Perception +15

Hey, GMs old and new!

To Branding Opportunity, welcome aboard!

Regarding posting - I can probably do once a day no problem, with possibly more during the weekend.

Regarding Initiative - I was quite happy with averaging out initiative, since that does tend to be faster - one group of players, one group of GM. I am, however, aware I'm posting this as a person with +2 to Init. ^^

Thanks once again, to all of you!


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Branding Opportunity wrote:
Wicked, have you been bumping the CRs of the encounters considering it's a party of six PCs that are 25-pt buy?

Top secret GM stuff:

Yes. I generally apply the simple template: advanced to major enemies, and apply half those bonuses to mooks. I sometimes also use max hp. I also add extra enemies. Usually, I play it by "ear". The party is very balanced and makes short work of most fights.

Scarab Sages

I also should tell you that I have run this AP in a f2f game several years back. We sadly only got as far as book 5.


NG Male Human (Chelaxian) Alchemist (chirugeon) 6 CMB +4, CMD 16 | Fort. +8, Ref. +7, Will +4 | Init. +2 | Perc. +10, Sense Motive +1 | Speed 30ft |
Branding Opportunity wrote:

Another thing is that I will probably not be running every encounter as written in the original, if that's okay with everyone. I have found that some encounters are included simply to fill an XP quota, and don't really add anything to the story that we're trying to tell. If I feel that's the case, I will leave them out. I generally just tell everyone to level up when we reach the end of a section, and it makes sense.

Wicked, have you been bumping the CRs of the encounters considering it's a party of six PCs that are 25-pt buy?

This is perfect and also what I do in my games. Are you sure you're not copying me? :) You don't have a squirrel*, do you? :)

I have found out that being a level (or two) behind the 'expected level' also works well for leveling the playing field with too many PCs.

We would also be OK with toning our PCs to 20-point buy if that's what you want.

I do have to insist on challenging encounters, cake-walks are no fun.

----------
*So one of my cats 'brought home' a baby squirrel a couple of weeks ago. The baby was blind and bold but we decided to try and save the little guy. My wife had (still has) the patience to feed it with a syringe and he's doing quite well. The plan is to keep him over the winter and then let him back out to my backyard. I'll let you know how that goes...

but for now, let me introduce you to Chip the squirrel; is that cute or what?


Male Human HP 87/92 | AC 18/ FF 12/ T 16 | Per +7 | F: 8/ R: 7/ W: 10 | Init +5 | Active Conditions: Mage Armor, Overland Flight

That is one cute squirrel. Please keep us updated!

Let me second Pietro's enjoyment of challenging encounters. The moment I think the DM is fudging stuff to protect us I start to lose enjoyment. I love the sense that we've got to bring our 'A' game to each encounter so as to succeed, and have no problem with character death. Please don't pull any punches!

Scarab Sages

I think we are two different people, Pietro. At least I think I don't have a squirrel.


Female Human Unchained Rogue/11 HP 93/93; AC 21 T 15 FF16; Fort+5 Ref+12/14 Will+5; Init+5; Perception+16/19, Sense Motive +16

Welcome Branding and thanks for taking this on. Finally, a GM in my own time zone :)

I'm good with posting once a day but it'll usually be the evening.

I'm also good with how you handle initiative.

Looking forward to getting back on track!

Scarab Sages

I was just skimming the OOC thread and noticed you did quick RL introductions at the beginning of the game, so I'll do the same.

Hi, my name is Alex (I list my name in my profile, so it's no big secret) and I live in a tiny sliver of Mountain Time in an otherwise Pacific Time Zone state: Oregon, right on the border to Idaho. I've been gaming since the early 80's (which gives you an idea of my age), and have written quite a bit for Paizo and other gaming companies (which you can also see in my profile). I was born in Austria to American parents, but have been living in the US since I was 15, and also spent a fair amount of my youth visiting friends in the rest of Europe (particularly the UK, Germany, and the Netherlands). Oh, I also lived in Berlin, Germany from '85 to '88; interesting time to be there for sure. I'm an admin for PathfinderWiki, so if you have any questions or recommendations for that site, please let me know. I'm always looking for new editing projects.

Scarab Sages

Still reading. I'm currently reading about your mission to Eel's End.

While we've got some time, may I ask you a question?

What is it about PbP games in general, and this one specifically that you find the most interesting? What do you enjoy the most? What do you dislike, or what do you think can be improved? I'm not trying to be critical of "Wicked" here, just trying to see where your preferences lie.


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Female Shoanti Shaman 11 (Lore) HP: 2/89 | 28/28 | AC 25/13/23 | F+9 R+9 W+15 | Per +13 Init +7 | Hex DC 20

I really enjoy roleplaying in all its aspects, from creating a character unlike myself to giving it life in the framework of a game world. As an introvert, the PbP format really suits me, as I have time to craft my characters' reactions, dwell on their motivations, reasoning and feelings, and package it all in a piece of text that is enjoyable to read. This format also enables GMs to bring their worlds to life and write up evocative descriptions of places or situations, which I enjoy reading. for me, it is a journey of discovery, not only of the story and the world it takes place in, but of my own character(s) as well. I know that I made a good character when it starts gaining a measure of autonomy and it surprises me with a reaction that I hadn't planned or envisioned. One example is Yazi's reaction to the brothel pusher - I was going to have her walk past him and either ignore him or snark about it, but she decided to live in the moment for a bit instead.

This game... I like the premise. I like the setting, the urban environment, the NPCs we meet. I like that the story is nuanced and complex and deals with a range of interesting themes. For this specific incarnation of it, I like that we don't have filler encounters, and that every encounter that we do have reveals another small piece of the puzzle. I like the other PCs and the almost instant connection we established with each other. I like that everyone puts so much effort into roleplaying well and always pushing or including hooks.

There is nothing that I dislike about the game, save that it almost died. *phew* I like how Wicked was tracking initiative and how it was always clear what was happening.

Speaking of, will we continue using Roll20 for maps and such?

Scarab Sages

Yaziyah Tanja wrote:
Speaking of, will we continue using Roll20 for maps and such?

Thanks for the other info. I haven't decided on whether to continue with Roll20, as I've mainly used Google draw in the past for my own games. Do you think Roll20 adds useful functionality?


Female Shoanti Shaman 11 (Lore) HP: 2/89 | 28/28 | AC 25/13/23 | F+9 R+9 W+15 | Per +13 Init +7 | Hex DC 20

It's quite a nifty package - background music, die roller, chat, fog of war, tokens, initiative order, stat tracking.


NG Male Human (Chelaxian) Alchemist (chirugeon) 6 CMB +4, CMD 16 | Fort. +8, Ref. +7, Will +4 | Init. +2 | Perc. +10, Sense Motive +1 | Speed 30ft |
Branding Opportunity wrote:

Still reading. I'm currently reading about your mission to Eel's End.

While we've got some time, may I ask you a question?

What is it about PbP games in general, and this one specifically that you find the most interesting? What do you enjoy the most? What do you dislike, or what do you think can be improved? I'm not trying to be critical of "Wicked" here, just trying to see where your preferences lie.

I didn't start the game with everyone else but asked Wicked to join shortly thereafter. I work as a civil/environmental engineer, am happily married, and have two teenage daughters, one dog, three cats, and a squirrel. I'm almost fifty years old and have been roleplaying since the 80's. Late last century I switched over to playing via email (PBEM) and then recently transitioned to PBP.

I enjoy a good story and I feel that this medium is great for that. It's great for figuring out your PC's likes and dislikes in a way that is overlooked at the table.

However, I also enjoy the strategic challenge of encounters and working together as a team to solve those.

The connection between the PCs also adds to this atmosphere that we are all in over our heads and trying to help out.

Some sort of graphic assistance is preferred; I don't care if it's Roll20 or Google 'images'. I normally will update my 'current stats' as the bottom of my posts when in combat.


Barbarian 10/Fighter 1 | HP 66/104 | DR 5/- | AC 27, T 15 FF 21 | Fort +14, Ref +7, Will +6 (+7 Superstition) | CMD 29 | Init +2 | Perception +15

I think Yazi put it better than I could ever have, frankly!

I got into RPGs quite later than most, I'd imagine, as I only started when I moved in Scotland in 2012. I was fascinated with good computer RPGs from the time, and I got interested in the significantly more open ended stories one could make in tabletop games. I only got in PbP when I was working a 80-hour week job, and I was unable to attend any of the regular sessions I used to have, yet the creativity had to go somewhere! The pacing is much more open ended in PbP, which let's me write snippets of story or large IC descriptions I wouldn't be able to do in most face to face games. Another thing I like about PbP is the experience and the challenge of playing a character I'd be struggling to "get" in a face to face game in the small time you have to react.

As for this game in particular...

I've honestly said many times over the years, to me this is, by and large, the epitome of what a PbP is and should be.(Including the issues!)

The setting is one I adore deeply, both for its shades of gray and the human(sentient!) stories in it, the moral quandaries and the times when someone is an a@+!%~% gets it. My co-players and the GM are brilliant writers, with excellent grasp on their characters, and the fact that all of us come from different walks of life adds a lot of flavour to the game that would be hard to find in your local games shop game. All in all, I might even consider this my favourite and best RPG game so far, and I am very much fine with that.

Roll20 is surprisingly good and we've had some lovely chats when players end up updating at the same time. (And, so far, I believe two face to face visits!)

I also love brackets, as I'm sure people noticed!


Male Human HP 87/92 | AC 18/ FF 12/ T 16 | Per +7 | F: 8/ R: 7/ W: 10 | Init +5 | Active Conditions: Mage Armor, Overland Flight

What is it about PbP games in general, and this one specifically that you find the most interesting?

I've been playing text-based rp games since I discovered a Wheel of Time MUD in highschool. From there I moved on to playing Werewolf the Apocalypse online with a bunch of ridiculously talented writers, and I've been hooked ever since. What I love is telling a story with other great writers, being able to delve into the thoughts and psychology of a character in the way you can't around a table, and enjoy the quality of each other's writing while we're at it.

As for this game? What the others have said. A great group of players, a DM that ran a tight ship, kept the momentum going, was tough in combats while also making them interesting, and the setting itself.

What do you enjoy the most?

I enjoy a quick pace and a willingness on the DM's part to move things along to prevent stagnation. I like meaningful combats that are tactically diverse. I like great party inter-play, and a willingness for the other players to explore both friction and friendship IC.

What do you dislike, or what do you think can be improved?

I dislike feeling like the DM is pulling punches so as to ensure the story continues. The story's fun stems from our having earned our rewards and achieved our goals through honest work.

Not much else I dislike, really. Oh, sometimes swarm enemies are just plain annoying.

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