Gun Twirling Build advice (PFS)

Ok, so the additional resources for PFS have been updated, and low and behold, the Gun Twirling Feat is legal.

Here's the text for the feat:

Gun Twirling (Grit)
You can spin and juggle a small firearm, making it difficult to predict where you will shoot.
Prerequisites: Amateur Gunslinger feat or grit class feature, Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus.
Benefit: You can spend 1 grit point to make a feint attempt using a one-handed firearm for which you have Weapon Focus (instead of a melee weapon). The target of this feint must be within 30 feet of you and be able to see you.
If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a onehanded firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.

So, I was thinking, how can I best take advantage of this feat, I would want to have sneak attack dice so that feinting is useful, and use two guns so that the Quick Draw bonus can be utilized. I immediately began looking at the Slayer class from the Advanced Class Guide Playtest, but to have enough Feats I'm thinking I need to frontload 2 levels of Fighter.

So here's my plan:
Human Fighter2/Slayer10
Stats: STR: 12 DEX: 17 CON: 14 INT: 13 WIS: 14 CHA: 8 (20 point buy)
Front load the fighter levels, so level 1 and 2 are fighter.
1st Level Feat Gunsmithing
1st Level Human Bonus Weapon Focus (Pistol)
1st Level Fighter Bonus Combat Expertise
2nd Level Fighter Bonus Quick Draw
3rd Level Feat Dazzling Display
2nd Level Slayer Talent Rogue Talent Firearm Training
5th Level Feat Rapid Reload (Pistol)
4th Level Slayer Talent Rogue Talent Grit (Amateur Gunslinger+Gun Twirling)
7th Level Feat Improved Feint
6th Level Slayer Talent Ranger Style (Two Weapon Fighting)
9th Level Feat Two Weapon Feint
8th Level Slayer Talent Ranger Style (Improved Two Weapon Fighting)
11th Level Feat Shatter Defenses
10th Level Slayer Talent Ranger Style (Greater Two Weapon Fighting)

I'm not sure this is the best order to take things in, but it's pretty much everything I wanted in the build, post-12th, the character could pick up Sap Adept and Sap Master. Suggestions and advice are very welcome (Remember, this is PFS)

Why not take a level of Gunslinger to get Gunsmithing and proficiency? That loses you one bonus feat in exchange for 2 of the feats you're taking separately now, plus more Grit.

Instead of a regular pistol, you could go with a pepperbox. It'll be about level 4 before you can afford it, but it would obviate the need for Rapid Reload (you could have 12 pre-loaded shots in 2 pepperboxes, and use Gun Twirling to switch between them during a full attack). Plus, it's just cooler.

I think it would be better to just go with Rogue instead of Slayer for more sneak attack dice, since you shouldn't need a high BAB to hit.

Why not take a level of Gunslinger to get Gunsmithing and proficiency? That loses you one bonus feat in exchange for 2 of the feats you're taking separately now, plus more Grit.

I tried the levels of Gunslinger first, I couldn't get it to work as I didn't have room for Combat Expertise. Also, I don't think I can take the Grit rogue talent if I have levels in gunslinger.

Instead of a regular pistol, you could go with a pepperbox. It'll be about level 4 before you can afford it, but it would obviate the need for Rapid Reload (you could have 12 pre-loaded shots in 2 pepperboxes, and use Gun Twirling to switch between them during a full attack). Plus, it's just cooler.

Since I really couldn't use the gun to it's full advantage until I could afford a pepperbox, this is a good suggestion, though I worry about how much it would cost to keep 2 pepperboxes upgraded.

I think it would be better to just go with Rogue instead of Slayer for more sneak attack dice, since you shouldn't need a high BAB to hit.

I worry that if I go Rogue instead of Slayer that I will not be able to get the Two Weapon Fighting feats on top of everything else, but it is certainly an alternative.

How about this:

Gunslinger 1: Combat Expertise, Quick Draw
Rogue 1: +1d6
Rogue 2: Weapon Training (pepperbox), Dazzling Display
Rogue 3: +2d6
Rogue 4: Two Weapon Fighting, Talent?
Rogue 5: +3d6
Rogue 6: Gun Twirling, Combat Trick (Two Weapon Feint)
Rogue 7: +4d6
Rogue 8: Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Talent?
Rogue 9: +5d6
Rogue 10: Shatter Defenses

While you say that Rapid Reload is not really needed, I wonder how long it would take me to run out of loaded ammo, and the bigger problem, how long it would take me to load back up to full, after I empty both pepperboxes if I don't have rapid reload, I might as well drop them and go into melee combat against anything that's still alive.

If I switch the rogue to a Swashbucker archetype rogue, then I could get combat trick twice, meaning that the talent at fourth level could be a bonus combat feat (such as rapid reload).

Have you looked at the Swashbuckler from the ACG playtest? Someone told me it does sword-and-pistol type stuff.

Have you looked at the Swashbuckler from the ACG playtest? Someone told me it does sword-and-pistol type stuff.

There's supposed to be an archetype that allows it to use guns, but the class in the ACG cannot use guns by itself, and they cannot multiclass fighter or gunslinger.

What about going down the coat pistol route (one of the cheaper guns, cheap enough to get one with 2 Prestige) with this progression?

Pure Rogue Swashbuckler Archetype
Rogue 1: Gunsmithing, Combat Expertise, Sneak 1d6
Rogue 2: Firearm Training
Rogue 3: Quick Draw, Sneak 2d6
Rogue 4: Weapon Training (Coat Pistol)
Rogue 5: Dazzling Display, Sneak 3d6
Rogue 6: Grit (Ametuer Gunslinger+Gun Twirling)
Rogue 7: Two Weapon Fighting, Sneak 4d6
Rogue 8: Combat Trick (Rapid Reload (Coat Pistol))
Rogue 9: Two Weapon Feint, Sneak 5d6
Rogue10: Combat Trick (Improved Two Weapon Fighting)
Rogue11: Shatter Defenses, Sneak 6d6
Rogue12: Feat Sap Adept

EDIT: Misread the allowed resources... carry on

If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a onehanded firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.

Whelp, there goes the weapon cord nerf!

Dylos wrote:

If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a onehanded firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.

Whelp, there goes the weapon cord nerf!

Haha. That was my reaction too. So true.

Dylos wrote:

If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a onehanded firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.

Whelp, there goes the weapon cord nerf!

Well, at least this costs a 4-feat investment (Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Gun Twirling, Quick Draw) instead of a few cp of leather.

LoneKnave wrote:

Dylos wrote:

If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a onehanded firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.

Whelp, there goes the weapon cord nerf!

Well, at least this costs a 4-feat investment (Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Gun Twirling, Quick Draw) instead of a few cp of leather.

It evokes a much better image then someone with guns hanging off their wrists as well.

LoneKnave wrote:

Dylos wrote:

If you have the Quick Draw feat, you can holster a onehanded firearm as a free action as long as you have at least 1 grit point.

Whelp, there goes the weapon cord nerf!

Well, at least this costs a 4-feat investment (Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Gun Twirling, Quick Draw) instead of a few cp of leather.

Well weapon focus and quick draw are kinda staples for gunslingers, so it's more like a 2 feat (and dazzling display isn't even bad) but yeah.

Anyway, as for OP, why not Mysterious stranger Ninja? You could have some nice CHA synergy there.

Ninja would have the added benefit of being able to go invisible, and post retirement greater invisible, making it easier to get sneak attack with the guns, though if I change the dump stat to wisdom rather then charisma that would mean low will saves.

How reliable do you think Flare Alchemical Cartridges would be? DC 15 fort save or become blinded for a round, and the half damage wouldn't affect sneak damage.

I was considering that build as well. Ninja gunslingers have been kinda popular this week. The usual advice I give is using smoke bombs and Goz mask, but a Flare AC could be a good backup.

Um okay, so... why is Combat Expertise a must? It's melee weapon only, at least as I am reading the feat on d20pfsrd so you can't use it with guns...

Now, what I would do go full gunslinger, Pistolero archetype so you get "Up Close and Deadly" then add Signature Deed feat for the Up Close and Deadly to reduce the grit cost to 0. Then, you really don't even need Gun Twirling to feint to get precision damage on par with the rogue's sneak attack, then the gun twirling merely allows you to juggle your guns (holster by the rules, but thematically I picture tossing a gun in the air, reloading, firing, tossing the gun in the air as you catch the other one, reload, fire, etc. because you can "juggle" the guns). However the feint is still useful cause flat-footed and touch AC? Ouch. Then at level 11 you get Lightning Reload which coupled with not even needing alchemical cartridges anymore, on top of that you no longer provoke attack of opportunity while reloading. Double ouch.

This is of course assuming alchemical cartridges and the Signature Deed feat are allowed in PFS... are they?

Um okay, so... why is Combat Expertise a must? It's melee weapon only, at least as I am reading the feat on d20pfsrd so you can't use it with guns...

It is required for Improved Feint and Two Weapon Feint.

AbsolutGrndZer0 wrote:

Um okay, so... why is Combat Expertise a must? It's melee weapon only, at least as I am reading the feat on d20pfsrd so you can't use it with guns...

It is required for Improved Feint and Two Weapon Feint.

Ah, those pesky worthless but required feats...