City of Nine Stars -- City of Twilight (Inactive)

Game Master therealthom

Don't knock the Healing witch...Andrea is doing much better than I imagined in Carrion Crown..once you get spontaneous casting like a cleric at 4th level you can be pretty versatile.

Welcome, halplm.

I like Jeynerva. Sweet backstory and I'm a sucker for Forlorn. Motivation might be a problem. This AP requires an investment in Westcrown and in the long run, a desire to do good for the city. If she were to join, there's a couple things I'd like to tweak in her backstory, small things.

Regarding healing:

The departing Akorian has not been a total healbot. And so far cure X wounds potions have littered this campaign like broken arrows at Agincourt. I don't see healing as a huge problem immediately. Down the road it may be more of an issue. Especially when the AP author changes.

Also, undead lie heavy in some of the later chapters of the AP. Someone who can deal with them on a spiritual level would be very handy in the party.

The witch is non-core. As always I reserve the right to ban or nerf features I find unbalancing. Dabbler can tell you what a pain in the butt I am.

More discussion is required. Do any of the other current players have comments?

More discussion is required. Do any of the other current players have comments?

My opinion really doesn't matter at this point, but I'd advise against selecting an intentionally evil character (or even an ambiguous one). The Council of Thieves AP needs heroes, preferably the CG/NG variety as opposed to the LG kind. PCs who have a vested interest in restoring Westcrown's tarnished pride and image would have a greater impact on the storyline. And players of such characters would likely derive greater enjoyment from the game, as a result.

In addition, Waifrin, Zarabeta, and Marius all to one degree or another have built-in character flaws (good ones) that define their individual morality and principles. As a result, none of them present a real strong vibe as a moral compass. That's what I strived to inject from Akorian's perspective. I know that created a bit of in-character friction at times (which made for some great roleplay), but I think the priest filled a pretty vital role for the party (from a storytelling perspective) because of his unique outlook. So, my recommendation would be to try and create another character who can provide that perspective and enrich the interplay between all the other characters in the party.

Also, from a logistical/tactical standpoint, I had intended to take Akorian into a role of actively opposing evil outsiders. I wanted to pick up the Alignment Channel feat so he could damage any fiendish devils that crept into the storyline. Since it takes place in Cheliax, that seemed pretty paramount for the end-game. So, the abilities of a cleric to channel positive energy can have more far-reaching effects than just being a heal-bot. Akorian had the potential to be a blaster against undead and demons/devils. It might be worthwhile to make sure you have someone who can do something similar.

Just my two (outgoing) cents,
--Neil

Waifrin's potential as a 'blaster' will cover the undead/extraplanor angle, I think, but yes, three of the four remaining characters have ... 'issues', as they say. However their issues are what make them heroes, because they have suffered the jack-boot of Chelaxian diabolic rule they want it overthrown.

I like the witch idea, but it needs more tailoring to the game and the party to 'fit'.

Hmm... Well, a lot of Jynerva's potential character development was going to be based on the GM I was working with at the time, and we had plans to develop the manipulations of her Patron, which may or may not have actually been Calistria (or one of her servants), I never knew. The main early development would have been based on her own personal revenge, which I believe the GM had been planning to work into the storyline, although I am not personally familiar with the storyline so I'm not sure how that would have worked.

If presented with the chance to exact her revenge or with an integration of said revenge with a conspiracy throughout Westcrown, further character development might go in any direction. I wanted to explore the more classically "evil" elements of the Witch class, although I'll admit it's been difficult to find people willing to have such an exploration in their game. (I really wanted to bake up some cookies for the team so everyone has some cool stat boosts without them knowing they were eating our vanquished enemies ;) ).

I had her developing the habit of flying around on a scythe instead of a broom, as sort of an angel of death, coup de graceing enemies she puts to sleep in the middle of battle.

All that said, as a replacement character, I could see skipping through the revenge aspect, and have her perhaps recognizing it was unfulfilling, and that Calistria hasn't been the diety with her best interests at heart. Perhaps her patron was actually Desna (or related servant), and the Chaotic aspects of her abilities were in line with her mother's faith and where she needed to go, even if she didn't start there.

I do not currently have time to read a lot of backstory and character development of the rest of the team (I'm taking two versions of the GRE next week) to see how to tweak the idea, but if you guys are not in a huge hurry, I'm willing to work on it with the team.

Here's a thought: consider her as the classical 'wronged' witch. She's been the wise-woman of a small community, taken care of their needs as healer, midwife, matchmaker etc. and been rewarded by hellknights/devils trampling them all underfoot. She's out for revenge, but tempered by justice. She'll be the classic witch, but only as a play to the crowd or to terrify her foes. She'll coup-de-grace the worse foes, but teach lessons to the misguided.

Witchcraft is the crossing place or overlap between religion and arcane, so she can have the spiritual angle too (and Milani the Everbloom is a CG deity of revolution and hope, remember, an ideal choice really).

Now I can see a tie-in from that rural origins, Mother Vangelis (a PC that dropped out) was a farmer's wife who briefly joined the Children of Westcrown and could be your characters acquaintance - indeed, hellknights after her could be a reason for misshaps falling on your mutual home? Just throwing in some ideas there ...

My opinion really doesn't matter at this point, ....

Just my two (outgoing) cents,
--Neil

Neil, you know that your opinion will always carry weight at my table. --

Seriously, once again you've stated your case more eloquently than I. For which I am grateful as we wanted to make pretty much the same points this time.

Are you going to write a parting scene for Akorian? I'd like to keep the options to bring him back or use him as an NPC open. Perhaps family trouble (his sister?) calls him away? If you'd prefer I can arrange a more permanent demise.

Are you going to write a parting scene for Akorian?

I wasn't planning on it, no.

I'd like to keep the options to bring him back or use him as an NPC open. Perhaps family trouble (his sister?) calls him away?

That would make sense. Perhaps something comes up that relates directly to the nobility starting to take an active interest in the developments in Westcrown. Akorian (at his sister's urging) could be recalled to Egorian for a bit. From there, he might be able to use his Henderthane connections to quell, diminish, or delay any heavy-handed response the Cheliax government might be planning...thereby buying time for his friends and the Children of Westcrown to further establish themselves.

I do not currently have time to read a lot of backstory and character development of the rest of the team (I'm taking two versions of the GRE next week) to see how to tweak the idea, but if you guys are not in a huge hurry, I'm willing to work on it with the team.

There is plenty of time. No rush here. The party could spend months IRL at rehearsal.

The AP story arc as written: The party was recruited to be part of a "quiet revolution" against the city government sponsored by the devil worshiping Imperial House Thrune. Under the guidance of the revolutionary leader, Arael (LG cleric of Iomedae), who plans to hold a revolution by exemplary behavior, the party performs many seemingly senseless tasks. Despite being a secret revolutionary group, they actively garner fame. Eventually they reach a point where any normal person would give up because there's just no obvious reward for all the danger they're exposing themselves to and they fight a lot of evil on pure speculation that things will get better. After (hopefully) saving the city from total destruction, the PCs lead a popular movement and are put in their place by House Thrune.

It's the italicized portion that any PC who has less than noble aspirations will have trouble getting over. So while it's OK to have a few warts around the rough edges, you need a heart of 24 carrots to lead the horse to drink.

Hmm... Well, a lot of Jynerva's potential character development was going to be based on the GM I was working with at the time, ...

If presented with the chance to exact her revenge or with an integration of said revenge with a conspiracy throughout Westcrown, further character development might go in any direction.

Revenge is a pretty common theme among this party as Dabbler indicated, "However their issues are what make them heroes, because they have suffered the jack-boot of Chelaxian diabolic rule they want it overthrown." So that makes Jynerva a good fit for the party. I might want to tinker with the spark or goal of that revenge.

I wanted to explore the more classically "evil" elements of the Witch class, although I'll admit it's been difficult to find people willing to have such an exploration in their game. (I really wanted to bake up some cookies for the team so everyone has some cool stat boosts without them knowing they were eating our vanquished enemies ;) ).

I am not the kind of DM who would really enjoy this kind of private joke, and think it would likely end badly were the party to find out. I just can't see the party leading a parade down the street singing, "I'm a cannibal. She's a cannibal. Wouldn't you like to be a cannibal too?"

I had her developing the habit of flying around on a scythe instead of a broom, as sort of an angel of death, coup de graceing enemies she puts to sleep in the middle of battle.

All that said, as a replacement character, I could see skipping through the revenge aspect, and have her perhaps recognizing it was unfulfilling, and that Calistria hasn't been the diety with her best interests at heart. Perhaps her patron was actually Desna (or related servant), and the Chaotic aspects of her abilities were in line with her mother's faith and where she needed to go, even if she didn't start there.

Flying around on a scythe, etc, I could handle. Being too flamboyantly darkside will ultimately interfere with the popular revolution end game. To my mind the city has to ultimately like the party. Of course if we want to tell a tragedy rather than a morality play, I could handle that.

therealthom wrote:

Are you going to write a parting scene for Akorian?

I wasn't planning on it, no.

therealthom wrote:

I'd like to keep the options to bring him back or use him as an NPC open. Perhaps family trouble (his sister?) calls him away?

That would make sense. Perhaps something comes up that relates directly to the nobility starting to take an active interest in the developments in Westcrown. Akorian (at his sister's urging) could be recalled to Egorian for a bit. From there, he might be able to use his Henderthane connections to quell, diminish, or delay any heavy-handed response the Cheliax government might be planning...thereby buying time for his friends and the Children of Westcrown to further establish themselves.

I'll have him slip away quietly then. We have an accord.

I'll miss him.

Well we still have Istas...why do I think she's going to turn up(albeit perhaps disguised) in a Spicer AP chapter at some point.

It's funny how the Divine Casters seem to make Golarion come alive for me.Istas, Akorian, Marak and Esteriande in the Runelords game, Atzi the Druid in my Serpents Skull Game and the assorted followers of Sarenrae I work with in Legacy of Fire all make the world seem more real.

Oh, if the party found out, I imagine it would go quite badly. The character would have been build out of a great deal of deception. If such sharing of magical meals made from people (I'm not sure it would strictly be cannibalism :) ) actually happened, I doubt Jynerva would every tell anyone where it came from... and she would never openly be evil, if she ever was actually evil outside of the Pathfinder definition of some evil acts. Part of the idea was to explore how a character that was not really evil would deal with using power and magic that was labeled as "evil acts" by the system.

I highly doubt the character would actually turn truly evil.

Anyway, thanks for the arc summary, I'll think on it.

Well we still have Istas...why do I think she's going to turn up(albeit perhaps disguised) in a Spicer AP chapter at some point.

It's funny how the Divine Casters seem to make Golarion come alive for me.Istas, Akorian, Marak and Esteriande in the Runelords game, Atzi the Druid in my Serpents Skull Game and the assorted followers of Sarenrae I work with in Legacy of Fire all make the world seem more real.

The deities are tied to the campaign world, so the divine casters have to embody a piece of the world in a way the other classes don't.

And in a world like Golarion where the gods actively and obviously work in the world, they are a huge piece of history and drivers of current events. A lot of the world flavor comes through in the gods.

Marak and Esteriande in the Runelords game,

I really have to jazz Marak up. With the exception of freaking out when bodies aren't shown their proper respect / burial, and having a love / hate relationship with ancient Thassilon, he's kinda lacking in personality...

Granted, I want to just have about as much personality as Inikai or Muchorak. Esteriande has quite a bit more personality than I'd be able to roleplay. :)

Marak to me comes across as the quiet, wise man who doesn't say much but everyone listens to him when he does. Esteriande is me going way OTT, as unfortunately I sometimes do ...

It's not unfortunate.

Ditto on my read of Marak.

It's not unfortunate.

As Esteriande would say, "Not if you like zat kind zing ..."

Sorry for my absence, guys. I got a little swamped over in the real world. I shall endeavor to make up for it. Also, I should be able to put up a loot list, probably tomorrow, for everyone's convenience.

Guys, sorry I've been AWOL. Should be able to post tonight! ~fingers crossed~

Had a couple of my games end, and I was actually relieved, as things have been really busy for me recently. With that in mind, I think I'll pass on trying to bring Jynerva to life right now. Thanks for the consideration and good luck as the campaign goes on.

OK, halplm. See you 'round the boards.

I might be interested in rejoining the game as a cleric/healer-type (if allowed to). Is there one of the NPC Children of Westcrown that would fit the bill?

Hogarth, I'd be happy to have you aboard again. I'd have to check the AP, but one of the children should have been designated a junior cleric.

Okay, then assuming no one objects, I'll roll up some stats.

4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 2, 6) = 17
4d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 2, 6) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 2, 1) = 10
4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 6, 5) = 18
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 4, 5) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 1, 6) = 14

=> 15, 12, 9, 15, 13, 13

Thats a pretty good set of stats for anyone..

Yep, nice and well-rounded. Thom, did you find out who the Children's junior cleric might be? If there isn't one, I can just make one up.

hogarth:

The official junior cleric:

therealthom:

A real pleasure to have you back, Hogarth!

therealthom:

** spoiler omitted **

hogarth, while that would appeal to my simulationist instincts, the rest of the party is 4th level. Join them there, unless you want to start lower for dramatic affect. Yes I meant affect.

I wasn't hoping to jump in at level 1; I was just being a pessimist. :-)

Zarabeta, who has remained quiet until now, having never been a fan of the whole play thing, speaks up, ... to jeer or catcall someone who is, even fictionally, representing the god of the state."

Zarabeta is smarter and more diplomatic than I. Is there an option for me to have her Take 20 on a Diplomacy check to subtly rewrite some sections of the play to place appropriate sentiments into the dialogue? I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm not real motivated to rewrite the play myself, and would rather have the character use her skills... With a take 20, her Diplomacy check would be 29, with possible bonuses from Waifrin and Raven using Aid Other.

If Waifrin, or someone else, can add Bluff to the pool, it would help to use innuendo and 'verbal sleight of hand' to convey the message without it being too overt. Zara's Bluff check would be at default, a +2, I think, so she'd be of little use there. Waifrin has +10 Bluff and Raven +8, so they'd be much better at taking Zarabeta's inspiring rhetoric and 'soft-pedaling' it so that it doesn't end with us all hanging from gibbets before the third act. :)

Based on that post, I doubt your first OOC sentence is strictly true. This plan is acceptable to me. Good use of the skill points. Saves the work of actually rewriting, although Dabbler had made a good start.

However due to the risk I think a roll is in order. Flat d20 is too volatile. 3 or 4 d6. Bonus for prep time. I'll figure a DC. And you'll still have to sell it on stage.

You all are free, as ever, to come up with your own plan.

However due to the risk I think a roll is in order. Flat d20 is too volatile. 3 or 4 d6. Bonus for prep time. I'll figure a DC. And you'll still have to sell it on stage.

Is there any chance we are going to level up before the play? Lacking an opportunity to put a point into Perform (acting), for those who will be on stage, puts us in the awkward position of being ill-prepared for the 'adventure.'

Obviously, most of us probably knew out of game that the second or third part of the adventure path involved the PCs participating in a play, and we *should* have planned ahead accordingly, but I got it into my head that we were skipping this part, and didn't bother taking any spells or skills that would be relevant.

If we aren't scheduled to be 'leveling up' perhaps a 'skill point advance' for the actors could be an option? It's kind of an artifact of the D&D/PF system that it's impossible to learn a new skill or language without gaining a level, but easily worked around, I suppose...

I like the idea, myself. If we level there are some things we can do to help pull it off ... <evil chuckle> Waifrin will still try to squeeze in official changes though ...

Hi folks, here's what I have so far for a character (Fiosa the halfling, who hasn't been seen for a while).

therealthom, what should I use for starting gold?

hogarth, good question regarding starting cash. The short answer is I don't know. Despite Wellard's silence :-p, the party is running equipment-poor right now, though they do have a bit of cash to spend.

Can I get a read on the PC's wealth from everyone? And the party's common resources, including the Fair Jerrick account and unsplit cash?

There is a small chance of level up before the play. It depends entirely on the DM's RL opportunities to customize the encounters, and is therefore unlikely. In the long run, I'm not sure it would pay you to drop points into perform. Those points could turn useless once the play is over. I'm more inclined to grant you extra skill points for Roblad's coaching.

Set, the reason you may have "got it into my head that we were skipping this part" is that I had stated we'd give the play itself a miss. While I had initially been excited about the idea of the play, Logue's script and the entire lead-in to it, sucked. I planned for you to save the day during a last scene gone out of control and thereby win the love and admiration of the city, or at least the mayor. Some players jammed a spanner into that plan, and now i only follow where the players lead ....

CURRENT PARTY FUNDS
1,583 gp
180 sp
‘Fair Jerrick’s Fair Deals’ store credit (worth 500 gp)
Large pearl (worth 100 gp)
Many small gems and assorted jewelry (worth 1,400 gp in total)

MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS
Leather sack with 60 wooden coins (demonic profile on one side, woman’s face on the other)
Silver holy symbol of Asmodeus (from Shanwen)
Iron holy symbol of Asmodeus (from Palaveen)

PERSONAL SPOILS
Akorian: +1 morningstar, masterwork light crossbow, wand of cure light wounds (10 charges)
Marius: +1 breastplate
Raven: Masterwork rapier, masterwork studded leather, masterwork thieves’ tools
Waifrin: Masterwork studded leather, potion of disguise self, potion of cure serious wounds
Zarabeta: Tanglefoot bag, scroll of obscuring mist, scroll of fog cloud, scroll of stinking cloud

The above is what the party had right before heading to the goblin lair, I believe.

The Blind leading the blind then...

Just a heads up guys I'll be away from my computer from Friday till Sunday as I will be in London attending Dragonmeet on Saturday (for PFS games) and need the days either side for travel.

Some players jammed a spanner into that plan, and now i only follow where the players lead ....

It is a law of role-playing that as soon as you think you have the plot mapped out the party will hijack it and demand to go to Cuba ...

In all honesty, I was just trying to find a way we could keep the idea of the party taking part in the play alive, and it seemed like a good idea at the time that we could hijack the play itself to sell our message. Indeed I was under the impression that the noble families still in Westcrown would hardly be fans of the Asmodean/Thrune order, but it seems from the reactions to my re-write attempt that this is not the case ... back to the drawing board!

Interesting point, Dabbler. One I hadn't considered fully. Of course you're right; there must be malcontents among the Wiscrani upper classes. But this is the Mayor's party, and he and his cronies are Thrunish supporters by inclination, past association, and government incentive.

Any malcontents in the upper crust still have quite a lot to lose. That's why a public protest will probably not garner their protection. They'll swell with satisfaction to hear your brave words and hope Pharasma has a nice retirement plan in store for you. Now if you wanted to try a flash mob approach by performing for the common folk ....

Castor, well done. I'll sort out what you recovered from the goblin lair and we'll have a number.

hogarth, good question regarding starting cash. The short answer is I don't know. Despite Wellard's silence :-p, the party is running equipment-poor right now, though they do have a bit of cash to spend.

Can I get a read on the PC's wealth from everyone? And the party's common resources, including the Fair Jerrick account and unsplit cash?

Judging by the accounting, how about a suit of masterwork armour, a wand of cure light wounds, and all of the uninteresting nonmagical equipment I want?

...

Judging by the accounting, how about a suit of masterwork armour, a wand of cure light wounds, and all of the uninteresting nonmagical equipment I want?

Done! (Wow. You guys are poor even by my standards. I can make that work for me. MWAhhaaahhaaa!)

Please drum up the obligatory 3 one-line contacts outside of the Children. Given Fiosa's history I might suggest at least one friend still "in service" with House Tilernos or Mhartis.

She's pretty undead focused. That won't be an issue right away. If you would like to take other feats that might be more immediately useful ...

Everyone elseTreasure: You guys are sitting on some cash and goods. To make the task of increasing your wealth less daunting the value of the gems and jewelry in Castor's post is the sale price.

Whitechin's loot:
100 pp. 400 gp. 2700 sp. and 3400 cp. Plus 500 gp in jewelry and light furnishings. totals about 1200 gp

The big goblins including Whitechin are equipped with masterwork weapons, shields and armor. Plate for Whitechin. Banded and Breastplate for his boys. A cool dwarven waraxe, a spear, and a longsword. these 3 Goblins were medium sized.

The goblin sorceror's gang's loot: 24 gp, platinum bladed knife (40 gp). You've got the elder's ring and MWK dagger.

hit points: 3d8 ⇒ (6, 6, 4) = 16

Okay, I added some contacts and I swapped out Turn Undead for Selective Channeling for the moment.

Ok lets get the gems and jewels turned into something more negotiable and think where we are going with this.

Most of the loot was in masterwork weapons and armour. I make the total roughly 473gp once sold for half value in weapons, 750gp in armour, 225gp in shields for 1448gp total. Added to the monetary loot and we have 2700gp roughly. I think mithral short-swords (masterwork) will cost about 500gp each. We could afford two and some other gear, or one with a +1 enhancement on it.

So putting it all together

CURRENT PARTY FUNDS
100pp =1000gp
2007 gp
2880 sp =288 gp
3400 cp =34 gp
‘Fair Jerrick’s Fair Deals’ store credit (worth 500 gp)
Large pearl (worth 100 gp)
Many small gems and assorted jewelry amd furnishings (worth 1,900 gp in total)
Arms and armour worth 1448gp

I make that 6877 Gp worth

MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS
Leather sack with 60 wooden coins (demonic profile on one side, woman’s face on the other)
Silver holy symbol of Asmodeus (from Shanwen)
Iron holy symbol of Asmodeus (from Palaveen)

While Waifrin could do with some stuff to boost her AC and Charisma, I really think our first priority is getting Marius some magic weapons. A pair of +1 Mithral short swords would set us back 5Kgp and is now within our means.

Happy thanksgiving!

With the holiday and work I may be slow posting for te next week or two.

Lets save 2000 off that for now and only get him one magical weapon and a normal MW Mithral for his offhand.

I do like it that the party thinks of gearing up the fighter first.

hogarth, since the party has on average 1500 each to spend on gear from their cash acquired thus far, why don't you add the same to Fiosa.