Childhood Dreams (Inactive)

Game Master Krumthi

Childhood Dreams Remembered


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Okay, so here is my first attempt at running a PbP game, I am a semi-experinced GM and I have done several before, So here is what I am looking for. This is going to be differnt then your normal Campgian, This is a Homebrew campaign that is going to be started out when you are preteen/teens. This is something that I have wanted to try for a while.
Each Charater should be of high living such as the example below or in some sort of trade appertinceship at the momment. Everyone lives in the same small Village of Bristol located in the River Kingdoms. We will be Fast Fowarding to adults after some relationships have been applied and some skills have been learned. There is a oppertunity here for everyone to gain an extra something for their Charater. Be it a feat, a modifier to their stats or Skills. or even items.

Birstol
LN village
Corruption +0; Crime –4; Economy –1; Law +2; Lore +1; Society +0
Qualities rumormongering citizens, superstitious, Weary
Danger +0; Disadvantages impoverished
Demographics
Government autocracy
Population 175 (50 humans, 30 halflings, 20 half-elf 40 Elves, 20 Dwarves 15 other. )

Notable NPCs
Mayor Tanner Youngson (LG male human expert 3)
Sheriff Ira Skeen (LN female human fighter 1/ranger 3)
Soothsayer the Beachcomber (N male human druid 2)
Wally the Wizard (n Male Human Wizard 5)

Marketplace
Base Value 375 gp; Purchase Limit 1,250 gp; Spellcasting 2nd
Minor Items 1d4; Medium Items 1d2; Major Items —
This is a small bustling village with a lot of young families.

So here is an example of a Charater in the village.

Example:

Rodric Youngson
Age 13
Human Male
activities: practiced swordsman, Loves sword play. Has a wooden sword that he made.

Background: Rodric is the only son of the local mayor here. He is bratty and stuck up. He has very few friends and is sort of a bully. he is currently apprenticing at the Blacksmith shop. Where he is being taught a hard lesson. He has a good eye for a fight and is pretty handy with a sword already having learned somethings from the Sheriff and the blacksmith. He owns a wooden sword that he crafted

Crunchy stuff:

Will use the boards for all dice rolls
Stats

4d6 Drop the lowest
Racial modifies will allow for 3-20. Placing them in any order that you feels right to you.
We will be starting at level 1 but there will be some perks and flaws along with the game that you will earn thru role play and thru roll play.

I will take 5 People and I will keep the Recruitment board up for 1 week before I make my choices. I will not be picking till then. I will keep an eye on the board and answer any questions

Races: Anything from CRB APG UM, UC, GMG, ARG (must be approved first though)
Classes: Anything from the CRB APG UM, UC, GMG, ARG
Archetypes: Anything from the CRB APG UM, UC, GMG, ARG (all must be approved first)
Alignment: No Evil
wealth: 50GP to start
Traits: 2 to start ( more can be earned ) ( All traits are open, I will only allow one Rich Parents though)
Gear: Do not worry about Gear at the moment that will be taken care of in game.


Can you provide more info on what we need to post as a submission?
should we make a fully stated character at level 1 or are you just looking for a general concept as detailed in the sample villiager given above?


Hmm, ideas...Aasimar ok as a race?


@Edward Sobel
General Concept for the Time being and then we will have a fully stated guy a little later with some modifications.

@Aroach1188
Standard only but yes those can be used.


I'll submit Ghorum Kraak, dwarf ranger.

Basically, as one of only a few dwarves, he is a bit of a loner, hence his penchant for wandering the surrounding areas. He learns valuable survival skills in the wilds, even growing to serve as a guide for the few travellers that enter the region.

I do intend for him to inherit his fathers waraxe (most likely by taking the Rich parents trait).

Stats to follow.


Standard as in to alternate traits? Sounds good to me. Thinking Female Aasimar who works in the temple of Iomedae (Can there be one? It can be a shrine even) Eventually headed for Cleric/Paladin (Maybe both?)

Imma go ahead and roll stats

4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 3, 2) = 9
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 6, 2) = 13
4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 1, 1) = 9
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 1, 3) = 9
4d6 ⇒ (5, 3, 4, 6) = 18
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 1, 4) = 15

8, 12, 8, 8, 15, 14. Thats a nice 9 pt buy i rolled there


@Aroach1188
Sounds good to me.

Yes there is a church of Iomedae there because you want it to be.

@Ghorum Kraak
Whom are you learning with? another ranger or the guard or whom?

Heirloom weapon works too you know Ghorum


"GM Krumthi wrote:


@Ghorum Kraak
Whom are you learning with? another ranger or the guard or whom?

I'm guessing one of the other rangers in town, maybe even the sheriff. Having no interest in his fathers smithy, Ghorum latches on to someone else.

"GM Krumthi wrote:
Heirloom weapon works too you know Ghorum

True, but the recent errata kinda nerfed the whole masterwork quality. That is pretty much what I'm going for here. Think an "upgradable" weapon...


Blah, could I maybe get a reroll on those stats? I cant get anything working in my head for these.


reroll 2 of the 8's and take the better of the two this is the only reroll for you.

Liberty's Edge

4d6 ⇒ (5, 3, 5, 2) = 15=13
4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 4, 5) = 20=16
4d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 2, 2) = 10=9
4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 3, 6) = 13=12
4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 3, 1) = 11=10
4d6 ⇒ (6, 2, 4, 6) = 18=14

Bran Minnik
Age 15
Human Male
activities: exploring, reading, drawing/painting fantastic creatures, doing things he shouldn't in Wally's laboratory.

Background:
Bran is a tall gangly youth. He stands six foot two inches tall, but can weigh no more than 150 pounds. His straight black hair is cut to jaw length and tucked behind his ears. His eyes are the color of a polished avacado pit, his skin a Caucasian white. He sports the proud spotty beard of a boy new to such a thing.

He is extremely curious to the point of losing all concept of self preservation, and when he's not exploring or experimenting he's got his nose stuck in an adventure story. He is very quiet and seeks to go unnoticed by those he perceives as having different worldviews from his own. This often leads people to tell him he's creepy or scary, so he accepts this fact and allows it to work to his advantage. People who actually take the time to get to know him though, will discover he is a kind and genuine boy. The few friends he does have look to him as a leader.

He's currently apprenticed with Wally to learn basic magic, but he often spends his lessons doodling the fantastic denizens of his imagination instead of copying incantations. The only lessons that really interest him are on conjurations, an area he excels in.

His mother stays home to care for him and his two younger brothers, while his father works for the Sheriff part time and runs a thatching business where many of his uncles and cousins also work.

Str:10
Dex:14
Con:12
Int:13
Wis:9
Cha:16

Future class Summoner.


@Jelani that is a great post. something to look forward too. that is really great.

Liberty's Edge

It's a psuedo autobiographical character so it should be fun to play.


Lets try some rolls:

4d6 ⇒ (2, 1, 4, 6) = 13=12
4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 6, 4) = 17=14
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 6, 2) = 18=16
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 2, 3) = 12=10
4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 6, 2) = 18=16
4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 6, 5) = 19=17

Sweet!


4d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 1, 3) = 10 = 9
4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 6, 3) = 13 = 12
4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 2, 4) = 12 = 10
4d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 1, 4) = 11 = 10
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 5, 2) = 16 = 14
4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 6, 2) = 14 = 12

Kip
Age 11
Grippli Male
Activities: Archery, reading, hunting and fetching things from the forest.

Background:
7 years ago Soothsayer the Beachcomber found a rather large frog in the forest outside the village, which it just so happens, turned out to be a young grippli. Nobody knows exactly where Kip originally came from, as the closest known grippli tribes are not particularly close to the village. Regardless, Soothsayer took the young tadpole in and raised him in his home just outside the village.

Kip has got some trouble relating to most of the people in the village, for obvious reasons. He is even shorter than the halflings, and is the only one that is this particular shade of greenish brown. He tends to be very reserved amongst the taller folk in the village, though he has taken a distinct liking to Sheriff Skeen, who is teaching him the basics of the bow.

For the most part, Kip spends his time training both his body and mind. When he isn't learning about the natural world from Soothsayer, or practicing his bow, Kip will often try to get his hands on books from either the local temple, or Wally's personal library. A couple of times, Wally has even sent him to fetch herbs for alchemical experiments in exchange for some reading material.

I'm thinking I will have this guy take some traits to get additional knowledge class skills. He will be an archer of some sort; probably a ranger, or zen archer if allowed. Stats will depend on his future class.

If he is a ranger:
STR 8
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 9

If he is a monk, switch WIS and DEX.


4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 1, 3) = 9 8
4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 2, 3) = 12 10
4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 4, 3) = 13 11
4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 5, 3) = 16 13
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 4, 3) = 14 12
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 5, 1) = 15 14

9 point buy, i'll pass.


@hgsolo So far I am liking what I am seeing I have not had a Grippli in my campaigns before might be interesting. I do not have a problem with you playing a zen archer if you want


GM Krumthi wrote:
@hgsolo So far I am liking what I am seeing I have not had a Grippli in my campaigns before might be interesting. I do not have a problem with you playing a zen archer if you want

Cool. I gotta think about it a little bit. Ranger gives me more skill points and hit points, but I really like the zen archer. I'll let you know.

Also, looks like we are getting a bunch of 9 point buys. =P

Not that I have a problem with it, I think my grippli will be awesome regardless.

Liberty's Edge

hgsolo wrote:
GM Krumthi wrote:
@hgsolo So far I am liking what I am seeing I have not had a Grippli in my campaigns before might be interesting. I do not have a problem with you playing a zen archer if you want

Cool. I gotta think about it a little bit. Ranger gives me more skill points and hit points, but I really like the zen archer. I'll let you know.

Also, looks like we are getting a bunch of 9 point buys. =P

Not that I have a problem with it, I think my grippli will be awesome regardless.

If you plan on using a bow you shouldn't have 8 strength.

d20pfsrd.com Longbow Section wrote:

Description: You need two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. A longbow is too unwieldy to use while you are mounted. If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a longbow. If you have a Strength bonus, you can apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite longbow (see below), but not when you use a regular longbow.

Shortbow has the same rule.


I like the concept. I've had a child character bumping around my head for a while. A orphan street kid with an imaginary friend who steals food and niknaks for him (summoner with thief echelon.) However not keen on random stats (or HPs) so will mull over it.


@Tim

Ahh yes.. you made me think about that the HP. would be max at first and second level and random roll after that. all 1's are automatically 2's
Sorry I forgot to mention.


4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 6, 1) = 13 12
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 5, 6) = 20 16
4d6 ⇒ (6, 6, 3, 2) = 17 15
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 1, 6) = 14 14
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 1, 5) = 15 13
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 3, 6) = 19 16

37 point buy. I suppose it could work. :P

Will think on which of my current gallery of character ideas could work. At the moment, I have a zen archer in mind, but you seem quite taken with the grippli idea, so I'll probably submit something else.

Edit: I think I'll rework a paladin of Kurgess of mine, Jaymin Thrushberry, into an inquisitor of Kurgess. The paladin was a mounted knight in a home brew filled with jousting tournaments, etc. I think inquisitor fits much better here. He's always been a strong, athletic lad, protector of the bullied (there's no fair play in bullying), so the mayor's son probably hates him, and they've probably bloodied each others' noses over the years.


my rerolls

4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 3, 6) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 3, 4) = 14

13, 12, 12, 15, 14, 8

Cathetal Brightblade
Age 16
Female Aasimar
Activities: Swordplay, "Doctoring", socializing
Stats: Str: 15 Dex: 12 Con: 12 Int: 8 Wis: 15 Cha: 16

Backstory:

Cathetal is an adopted child of Storm Brightblade, a Paladin of Iomedae who started the church in the small village. Her birth parents lived in Brevoy, but were to poor to take care of her, and left her at the Church of Iomedae. Storm took pity on the child and raised her in the church. The two of them set out when she turned 10, and found this remote village. They decided to stay and build a shrine there, but the village quickly grew on them, and decided to make a permanent home there.

Cathetal has recently been learning swordplay from her father, and has always been helping the other kids when they get injured. She is kind of a chatterbox, as she really enjoys conversation, she will talk extensively to anyone. She is far from the brightest bulb in the house, but is tough and wise, while still being persuasive.


I am having character writer overload at the moment not sure what to play. so many different ideas.

guess I'll roll stats and see what comes up:

4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 3, 1) = 14 =13
4d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 2, 4) = 15 =13
4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 6, 1) = 12 =11
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 6, 1) = 16 =15
4d6 ⇒ (5, 1, 1, 3) = 10 =9
4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 1, 3) = 12 =11

ohhhhh a 14 point buy

hmmmm, not sure, should I go with expert or commoner

oh... I know expert merchant/chef


4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 4, 4) = 15 = 13
4d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 5, 5) = 18 = 15
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 5, 2) = 12 = 10
4d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 6, 6) = 18 = 15
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 6, 5) = 20 = 16
4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 4, 4) = 15 = 12

16, 15, 15, 13, 12, 10

Going to ponder things for a while and come back with an idea.


Tim Woodhams wrote:
I like the concept. I've had a child character bumping around my head for a while. A orphan street kid with an imaginary friend who steals food and niknaks for him (summoner with thief echelon.) However not keen on random stats (or HPs) so will mull over it.

I am currently playing a child Oracle of Life in a Carrion crown adventure. I just made a human and added the young template.


Jelani wrote:
hgsolo wrote:
GM Krumthi wrote:
@hgsolo So far I am liking what I am seeing I have not had a Grippli in my campaigns before might be interesting. I do not have a problem with you playing a zen archer if you want

Cool. I gotta think about it a little bit. Ranger gives me more skill points and hit points, but I really like the zen archer. I'll let you know.

Also, looks like we are getting a bunch of 9 point buys. =P

Not that I have a problem with it, I think my grippli will be awesome regardless.

If you plan on using a bow you shouldn't have 8 strength.

d20pfsrd.com Longbow Section wrote:

Description: You need two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. A longbow is too unwieldy to use while you are mounted. If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a longbow. If you have a Strength bonus, you can apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite longbow (see below), but not when you use a regular longbow.

Shortbow has the same rule.

Good point. Well, 10 CON here I come!


Edward Sobel wrote:

I am having character writer overload at the moment not sure what to play. so many different ideas.

guess I'll roll stats and see what comes up:

4d6 =13
4d6 =13
4d6 =11
4d6 =15
4d6 =9
4d6 =11

ohhhhh a 14 point buy

hmmmm, not sure, should I go with expert or commoner

oh... I know expert merchant/chef

Oh come on man, where's your sense of adventure? I rolled a monk with an 8 point buy.


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hgsolo wrote:
Edward Sobel wrote:

I am having character writer overload at the moment not sure what to play. so many different ideas.

guess I'll roll stats and see what comes up:

4d6 =13
4d6 =13
4d6 =11
4d6 =15
4d6 =9
4d6 =11

ohhhhh a 14 point buy

hmmmm, not sure, should I go with expert or commoner

oh... I know expert merchant/chef

Oh come on man, where's your sense of adventure? I rolled a monk with an 8 point buy.

Watch out guys, were dealing with a BA over here


Oh come on people lets be nice looks like we need to get some intresting people!


I only kid of course.


Aroach1188 wrote:
hgsolo wrote:
Edward Sobel wrote:

I am having character writer overload at the moment not sure what to play. so many different ideas.

guess I'll roll stats and see what comes up:

4d6 =13
4d6 =13
4d6 =11
4d6 =15
4d6 =9
4d6 =11

ohhhhh a 14 point buy

hmmmm, not sure, should I go with expert or commoner

oh... I know expert merchant/chef

Oh come on man, where's your sense of adventure? I rolled a monk with an 8 point buy.
Watch out guys, were dealing with a BA over here

Haha. Look, all I'm saying is it can be done. It might be suicidal, but it can be done.


I know it can be done just trying to determine what to play.


Thinking half-elven rogue, son of a merchant, will focus on fencing (weapon finesse) for the dex bonus, general skill monkey, second line combatant.

Let's play with some dice:

4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 1, 1) = 13 = 12
4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 4, 2) = 17 = 15
4d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 4, 2) = 10 = 9
4d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 4, 2) = 13 = 12
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 4, 6) = 20 = 16
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 4, 1) = 15 = 14

Oooh - I like the results, perfect for what I am looking for.

Backstory to come, on vacation this week and have limited posting abilities. Looking forward to this.


4d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 1, 3) = 13 = 12
4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 2, 3) = 7 = 6
4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 2, 2) = 12 = 10
4d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 1, 5) = 15 = 14
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 2, 2) = 9 = 8
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 6, 5) = 16 = 15

I dare say, that's a 6pt buy? This doesn't work, not when others in the same group have 40pt buys.

Game on!

The Exchange

Is there still room left, or is the campaign full?


Hi All

Thinking of a half orc smithy's apprentice with aspirations of paladinhood.

4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 4, 4) = 18=14
4d6 ⇒ (4, 3, 6, 2) = 15=13
4d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 2, 1) = 9=8
4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 1, 4) = 7=5
4d6 ⇒ (5, 3, 5, 4) = 17=14
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 6, 6) = 17=15

Yup... those'll work... Will pull together something more concrete tomorrow for you GMK.


There is room left I am not choosing till next Friday

The Exchange

4d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 6, 1) = 14=13
4d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 3, 1) = 13=12
4d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 6, 5) = 17=15
4d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 3, 5) = 12=11
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 3, 4) = 16=13
4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 6, 1) = 16=15

I will play Aquilla, the son of a nobleman who doesn't want a son. He read a book while he was very young about a hero. The hero had a small cadre follow him where ever he went. Aquilla has decided that he wants to be exactly like that. He has an imaginairy friend named Priscilla whom he adventures with. His father sent him to the town as an apprentice to a well known conjurer. His physical body is quite strong, and he carries around a large stick and pretends its a mace. He also carries with him his family crest, a small shield, with him.

In game terms, Aquilla is a will-be-Summoner, with Priscilla as his to-be-Eidolon.


Jaymin Thrushberry

I know you just want concepts at this point, but I enjoy making characters, so I went ahead. His background and description can be found near the bottom. I'll add to it depending on who else gets into the game (assuming I do to!!) For example, I can see Jaymin being interested in the fair Cathetal, perhaps fighting over her many a time with Rodric.


Wow! Over 24 hours, and no action on a PBP recruitment thread. I've never seen the like. Clearly my submission has scared off everybody else.

The Exchange

Aquilla: I'm scared, Priscilla!.. Hold me...
Priscilla:... No...
Aquilla: :(


Well here is my basic submission: not fully stated out yet her current age represents childhood age. may be interesting since the average age for a gnome wizard is about 54 (17 years later)

Kara Deepshadow:

Kara Deepshadow
Age: 37
Female gnome (Wizard - Shadowcaster, Illusionist)

picture

Activities: academics, Study of magic, affinity for shadows, is a practical joker, likes to use magic to pull pranks on fellow students.

Background: Parents opened a small apothecary in the village selling various alchemical remedies, Kara was to learn the business but was always more interested in magic. Kara was invited to study with Wally the Wizard where she learned more control of her magic and learned more of the arcane world. Wally was amazed at Kara’s gift of language picking up new languages so easily. Wally was convinced she would be a diplomat but Kara only wanted to use her magic for fun and entertainment. Diplomacy seemed so boring and Kara was not about to talk her way to the Bleaching. Kara still works with her parents at the apothecary but her father seems to be more and more succumbing to the Bleaching.

Stats: STR: 11, DEX: 13. CON: 13, INT: 15, WIS: 11, CHA: 11


I do not think that it is you I think it is the concept


interested been dying to try a spin on a goblin. yes I know it would make it tiny but I can work with that.
Goblin oracle of the flame (most likely)

4d20 ⇒ (2, 9, 18, 20) = 49
4d20 ⇒ (9, 4, 13, 20) = 46
4d20 ⇒ (8, 12, 16, 8) = 44
4d20 ⇒ (7, 3, 6, 2) = 18
4d20 ⇒ (18, 9, 11, 2) = 40
4d20 ⇒ (1, 19, 11, 12) = 43


lol just joking :
4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 1, 1) = 10
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 6, 1) = 12
4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 1, 5) = 8
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 2, 5) = 12
4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 3, 2) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 6, 5) = 18

looking at either a goblin oracle or alchemist depending on what works best with the party


so concept : alignment tn
male Hobgoblin - alchemist (will be using archetype grenadier)
Activities: fire fire acid and fire. oh and ah
poison, fire and oh um acid.

Will be using adopted trait not sure which race though

Background--In an attempt to prove that it is the community and not the nature of the race that predilections creatures to evil or good,a female half elf ranger was tasked with finding a creature of "lower status" from "among those many consider vile and obscene" that could be raised with all the benefits of a "higher" station and those that civilization could provide.
The ranger finally found a hobgoblin child with in the burning remains of a merchants caravan. Knowing nothing of its past or how came to be among the debris, the half elf took the young goblinoid and returned to the couple who had quested him.
An exchange for a favor is what I require. When the child is old enough to understand..tell who his savior was and bid him seek me. That is all I ask for I to hold a curiosity for the tenets of good and evil."
The couple began the task of raising a rambunctious youngling. The couple soon found that if it burned, could be burned, or could dissolved, created, carved or "fixed", their child was rapt with attentiveness. So the apprenticed him out to the local apothecary and herbalist. Hoping to guide that inquisitive nature and love of "mixing things up" into channels more suited for and encouraged in civilized areas.


1's become 2's right? if so then final roles would be as follows

4d6 ⇒ (2, 6, 1(2), 1(2)) = 10
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 6, 1(2)) = 12
4d6 ⇒ (1(2), 1(2), 1(2), 5) = 8
4d6 ⇒ (1(2), 4, 2, 5) = 12
4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 3, 2) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 6, 5) = 18

Then drop the lowest
10
11
9
11
13
16

Not great but i can work with it.
If allowed I would love to re-roll the original role with 3 1's and (Please please) the one with 2 1's

If not ..ok will make my task harder but just as fun.


@Tobiaal: I think the 1's becoming 2's was for HP.

@GM Krumthi: As Jelani pointed out, I can't be having that low STR score if I want to do any damage, so my stats will be:

STR 10
DEX 14
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 16
CHA 9

And I will be going for a zen archer.


Do we get to add racial bonuses after we roll?

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