How was HP done, Max First and Half +1 after?
I have Alchemy but at a low "Dabbler" sort of level
Thanks, OK I can work with that for the undead. I think these were created prior to the ritual starting, correct?
I'll expand but I had three options for cohorts (realising that things can get complicated / over-balanced pretty quickly with a party full of leaders), one of which was a support-based alchemist in a mad doctor model (kind of a classic of the genre).
I'd assumed average round up for hp but see everyone else rolled. If we're doing that:
@Agrippa, Sebastian, Cedric
Please, set up a status line such as this one Johan is using:
Male Human |Inquisitor 7| HP 72 | AC 25(T11/FF24) |CMB +11; CMD 22 | Saves Fort +9, Ref +4 Will +9 | Initiative +6, Perception +13, Sense motive +16, Bluff -1, Intimidate+19 LOOT
It makes it easy for me to check information without needing to go over the character profile.
The Hp/AC/Saves/CMB-D Init, Percept, SM is mandatory the other skills, you can fill with anything you find relevant for your character.
@Ashe
Yeah, HP is rolled. No re-rool on a low number.
Finish up your purchases and tell me if you think you are ready, I'll check your crunch and work into setting you up in the game.
6d8 ⇒ (6, 6, 6, 2, 8, 7) = 35
Nice rolls mate :)
I'm a bit shocked. Historically my hp rolls are terrible.
The only undead created after the ritual started was the hound archon
So my cohort options for general comment (I think Ashe's character has leadership as well right so we should probably co-ordinate this toegether / as a group):
Option 1 was a front-liner, body-guard type. A fighter or a war-priest or something simple. Pro is easy to manage. Cons are its a bit boring. Plus the ogre already fills that role (and anything I build looks pretty uninteresting vs a half-fiend ogre with class levels). And I don't think it makes much sense for me to take Grumblejack over one of the original characters.
Option 2 was a monstrous cohort. Hell-hound is the only option that seems thematic but not a great carcass to add class levels to and more importantly I can't ride it into battle which is simply unacceptable :) I'd need a Nessian Hell-hound for that and that is many levels away.
Option 3 was a mad doctor type, an alchemist or maybe a witch who could craft (and fall back into a man the base type if we had too many NPCs). Leaning toward option 3 and it plays to the idea I have of Sebastian offering gifts in exchange for further damnation.
For the minion/organisation part I have a small network of converted Mitran lay-priests as per my background. Initially Sebastian would want to keep that seperate to any existing 9th knot groups but perhaps could fold that in later.
Having a further look at the rules but disappointly an espionage heavy organisation just seems plain bad compared to ruthless / contacts. No money earner, no gather info option (really?). I'll probably do that anyways as ruthless just doesn't make sense and contacts doesn't really work either.
@Sebastian I like option 3. Also Re:Leadership. We can pool our resources into one larger organization instead of separate one. We would each get our own actions ofc. My Organization, The Followers of the Red Pentacle, is a connections based org. that has been used mostly for gathering intelligence but I'm seeing it as an Asmodean cult so it'll start doing culty things soon.
Right at Half +1 so not bad.
Purchases are done Cedric is good to go beside his cohort and adding his organization to his sheet.
I was thinking Cedric need some one wise to hold Council with him and keep him on his true path wich is to serve Asmodeus. Maybe and Undead Lord Cleric. A little more divind casting will never hurt as well. I am open to suggestions though if the group has any.
@Sebastian. An alchemist seems good sense the group is in need of Craft Alchemy. If you don't think you want to do that I could.
Is the current organization listed anywhere? The link goes to rules on them. I think it would be best to enter with my own as I have 6 points to spend among their Attributes.
What about a bard? I could have a bard Cohort. He would serve as a faithful squire and keeper of my chronicles so they could one day be shared how the faith of Asmodeus spread through the land like wildfire at the fall of Mitra. Or soemthing to that effect :)
I was thinking Cedric need some one wise to hold Council with him and keep him on his true path wich is to serve Asmodeus. Maybe and Undead Lord Cleric. A little more divind casting will never hurt as well. I am open to suggestions though if the group has any.
@Sebastian. An alchemist seems good sense the group is in need of Craft Alchemy. If you don't think you want to do that I could.
Come here my son and let me advise you on the proper pathway to true wisdom...
DM AKU: you mentioned that the third floor doesn't allow access to the 4th. On the side view it does look like they are connected via the stairs in 3-13. Is that correct?
Yes, it is. However, you don't have access to 3-13 from third floor. There’s no 'door'.
Also, there's no 'passage' between the levels in the staircase.
The only real way to get into the sanctum is going in the caves and climbing the stairs or flying from the third floor...
However, since I mistakenly put a door at the first and second floor, I'll keep it to avoid further complications.
Here is the transportation layout:
Teleportation throne: Can get you to the first, second and third level, depending on the word used.
The spiral (Secret staircase): Can get you into the caves, first, second and third floor.
Then you have each normal entrance to every floor, worth mentioning that the third level and sanctum are assessable only by several climbing checks or flying.
@Agrippa
A mending spell will do.
@Dan/Ashe
Finished your crunch? Can I start looking?
Yes I just need to finish out minor equipment purchases.
Ok, I see the third level thing now - the staircases are cut off from the rest of the third level.
So to make sure I am 100% clear: The spiral staircase connects the caverns to the third floor. It does NOT actually open into the first and second floors despite passing through them. From the third floor you can exit one staircase and then enter another that will take you to the Sanctum, but you cannot access any of the third floor proper from these staircases.
This makes the 1st, 2nd and 3rd floors completely isolated from one another except for the teleporting thrones and the pit traps.
So then, our defences should be concentrated on the caverns entrance to the stairs, the throne rooms, the room on the third floor where one staircase transitions to the next, and the sanctum itself.
If its okay with you Aku, I'm just going to keep brainstorming ooc here for a bit....
So in that last encounter it cost us precious time moving up to the sanctum via the stairs (which we weren't even allowed to do technically). I think we should relocate our own quarters to the 2nd level - we can use the throne to get up to the sanctum quickly. The 1st level can be entirely given over to henchmen. With the exception of the throne room there it is unimportant. The 3rd level is likewise useless to us. Keep the powerful undead guarding the sealed off transition rooms but otherwise abandon the level defensively. The Sanctum is the big question in my mind. Its the heart of what we are doing here but it has a big open balcony that any flyer ( like that lillend) could just waltz into. Do we try to stoneshape it closed? We've got the two deamons defending it, but we could move the hell hounds up here too since we won't be using them to defend level three.
Thoughts?
Have to say this was pretty much what I thought after looking at the map (and assuming no direct access from the third level to the sanctum which wasn't clear to me either). The other thing I couldn't work out was what the teleporters did but now I understand I think.
The Sanctum is really all that matters right, aside from something attacking us in our quarters when we're unready? Its glaring weakness is as you say an aerial attack that bypasses everything thats not already there.
So yeah abandon level 3 and put whats there at the sanctum/stairs. Perhaps we can even make it more attractive as a target?
On level 2 (where I thought were were sleeping) it looks like defenses are focused at the entrance and the throne room which is where they should be. If I stoneshape the passage shut between 2-17 and 2-20 then there is no easy access to the throne room (maybe shape the secret door permanantly shut as well).
On level 1 (which is where the followers sleep?) if I shape the corridor between 1-7 and 1-15 shut then intruders have to go e from the entrance and we can focus defences on that and the throne room again. Theres also an external hole here (I think?) which should be shut.
That leaves two big questions I think which I'll leave to the old hands for initial review:
1. Do you want a direct access to the sanctum from the main complex (ie what happens if the teleporters stop working) and if so where?
2. Do you try and seal the cave entrance to the sanctum stairs off making level 1 a big self-contained dungeon / deathtrap?
I guess we should also bear in mind that at our level no static defences are foolproof (ie dimension door, passwall).
Also not sure if this came up with Sidious but sending is a level 4 cleric spell so I can send messages (one-way) without the need for any messengers.
@All
You cannot use Sending/Scrying/Locate objects to affect anything outside or inside the horn.
If you are outside, you cannot use sending to address someone inside the horn, or try to scry or locate objects.
If you are inside, you cannot use sending to address someone outise the horn, or try to scry or locate objects.
You cannot teleport from outside to somewhere inside the Horn.
You cannot teleport from inside to somewhere outside the horn.
You cannot shift planes while inside the horn (those defense spells don’t work inside).
@Passages:
Sanctum:
Accessible from: The spiral and balcony.
Third floor:
Assessable by climbing and/or flying and teleportation thrones.
Second floor:
Accessible by teleportation thrones and 2-1.
First floor:
Accessible by teleportation thrones and 1-1.
Caves:
Accessible by C-1 and the spiral.
==//==
A simpler solution?
Use stone shape to open a passage on 3-13 and camp in that floor.
Makes you closer to the sanctum, gives you easy access to the other floors using the teleport throne, and you can go directly to the caves using the spiral.
Downside: Share the place with the Giant Dread wraith.
Yeah Crunch is ready to look at. Taking a look at map an defenses to offer suggestions.
Would it not be best to live in the Sanctum. Thats where the eye is to scry on the horn and where we need to be for the ritual and prayer. We can stone shape to add more room. That way we will be the first line if something decides to fly up to the balcony.
The Sanctum has no beds and no rooms that would offer Agrippa the measure of creature comforts he expects...He's gonna stay in the most spacious and lavishly furnished room in the Horn. Second Floor Room 2-18...
@All
You cannot use Sending/Scrying/Locate objects to affect anything outside or inside the horn.
If you are outside, you cannot use sending to address someone inside the horn, or try to scry or locate objects.
If you are inside, you cannot use sending to address someone outise the horn, or try to scry or locate objects.
You cannot teleport from outside to somewhere inside the Horn.
You cannot teleport from inside to somewhere outside the horn.You cannot shift planes while inside the horn (those defense spells don’t work inside).
Understood. Not there yet but presumably I can just walk outside and send.
@Sebastian
The issue isn't you sending, but Elise. :)
Sebastian did you decide on a cohort yet? I was leaning toward Alchemist, but you mentioned that first so you should do that.
Still trying to think of something.
@Sebastian
The issue isn't you sending, but Elise. :)
That’s okay, if we can send to her then we can easily arrange a new drop point for messages. I’d say the 1st floor entrance, where we will have reasoning guards that ask questions first and devour the messenger second stationed at all times.
The Sanctum has no beds and no rooms that would offer Agrippa the measure of creature comforts he expects...He's gonna stay in the most spacious and lavishly furnished room in the Horn. Second Floor Room 2-18...
LOL… well Sebastian and Cedric, welcome to the “unoptimized” side of the ninth knot.
Proposed revised defences:
Caverns: Lets leave the cavern entrance to the stairs open. It’s a secret door with a pretty high DC to find if I remember. We stone shape the little passage in C5 (marked with an A) closed so any intruders have to go the our defences at:
C1 – pit traps with giant centipede and uncontrolled undead, chupacabra
C4 - Mudmen ambush
C5 – Giant scorpions (a wooden palisade/gate across the passage should keep the critters on the right side and makes the whole section look like little more than a holding pen)
Level 1: This level will be given over to the minions and henchmen. The only weak point here is the teleporting throne and perhaps the pit trap providing access through the ceiling to level 2
1-1: Manned round the clock by thugs – this will bel the 7th knot’s new contact point.
1-23: The cell that the 2nd floor pit empties into has a constrictor snake in it.
1-27: 1st floor throne room. Guarded by the hydra. Under utilized perhaps but sure does keep the lackeys in line!
Level 2: The 9th Knots quarters.
2-1: defensive strong point. Pit trap, EL5 boggard encounter, up to a dozen crossbow wielding undead in 2-2 and 2-3 manning the arrow slits
2-5: This cell is where we keep important prisoners, like sister Marta. DC30 lock, could station an undead guard here maybe, or a glyph of warding.
2-6: Grumblejack's quarters?
2-8: Johan’s quarters, which he shares with his nightmare. The hellfire mane is like a soothing nightlight and the smell of brimstone helps him sleep! ( or I could put him in 2-7 to reduce the chance of setting the fancy four poster bed on fire)
2-18 Agrippa’s quarters
2-12: this is the room with the hole in the wall and the oozes inside. I suggest making it a trap. Leave the hole, stone shape the door out of existence. If anyone tries to enter they fight the oozes, then have no where to go.
2-20 guarded by three giant spiders. I think we’re okay with not stone shaping the passage or double doors closed – don’t want to impede our own response time. We could put glyphs of warding on the two entrances into the room though.
Level 3: The only important area here is the sealed area that transitions one staircase to the other. We have the better undead ( minotaur and hound archon) guarding this chamber. Otherwise I say we leave the balcony open and make it look like an inviting entrance. Anyone who enters – BAM! - Giant wraith and friends!
Sanctum: I really think we should wall up the balcony. Move the hell hounds up here along with the two deamons. Sidious can make his quarters up here.
@Ashe
Please update the character profile with all the information. You may put the link for a external source, but only as something extra, not the full crunch.
Also, put personality/backstory/motivation spoilers as well.
--
@Agrippa/Cedric
Please set up a status line as Johan/Eldred are using:
Male Human |Inquisitor 7| HP 72 | AC 25(T11/FF24) |CMB +11; CMD 22 | Saves Fort +9, Ref +4 Will +9 | Initiative +6, Perception +13, Sense motive +16, Bluff -1, Intimidate+19
Do you really want to know Agrippa's bluff and intimidate? I mean...he doesn't really do those too much. Otherwise, I thought my profile bar was pretty similar with all the pertinent things. Also, do you really need to know he is a Human Wizard 6 Diabolist 1? that kinda takes up a ton of characters I'd rather reserve for my quick link to my spreadsheet.
Agrippa agrees with whatever Johan wants to do with the Horn regarding the defense of it. That is far too mundane to occupy his time...
Nops, I want everything that is relevant for the char: Such as K:Arcane, Init, SM, Perception, Spellcraft
So I can easy roll for you some things without needing to read your complete sheet on profile.
Race is good to keep an easy reminder of spell effects, but it's not mandatory.
Well. Agrippa has all of the knowledges in some form or another... I'll include spellcraft, would you rather me link a spreadsheet where his skills are listed?
No, just K:Arcane and Spellcraft, please.
I will move crunch over.
Everything in alias now except for cohort, just need to figure that and criminal organization out.
Sebastian did you decide on a cohort yet? I was leaning toward Alchemist, but you mentioned that first so you should do that.
Still trying to think of something.
It will probably be an alchemist yes, the golem thing is intriguing me.
@Sebastian
The issue isn't you sending, but Elise. :)That’s okay, if we can send to her then we can easily arrange a new drop point for messages. I’d say the 1st floor entrance, where we will have reasoning guards that ask questions first and devour the messenger second stationed at all times.
The Sanctum has no beds and no rooms that would offer Agrippa the measure of creature comforts he expects...He's gonna stay in the most spacious and lavishly furnished room in the Horn. Second Floor Room 2-18...
LOL… well Sebastian and Cedric, welcome to the “unoptimized” side of the ninth knot.
Proposed revised defences:
Caverns: Lets leave the cavern entrance to the stairs open. It’s a secret door with a pretty high DC to find if I remember. We stone shape the little passage in C5 (marked with an A) closed so any intruders have to go the our defences at:
C1 – pit traps with giant centipede and uncontrolled undead, chupacabra
C4 - Mudmen ambush
C5 – Giant scorpions (a wooden palisade/gate across the passage should keep the critters on the right side and makes the whole section look like little more than a holding pen)Level 1: This level will be given over to the minions and henchmen. The only weak point here is the teleporting throne and perhaps the pit trap providing access through the ceiling to level 2
1-1: Manned round the clock by thugs – this will bel the 7th knot’s new contact point.
1-23: The cell that the 2nd floor pit empties into has a constrictor snake in it.
1-27: 1st floor throne room. Guarded by the hydra. Under utilized perhaps but sure does keep the lackeys in line!Level 2: The 9th Knots quarters.
2-1: defensive strong point. Pit trap, EL5 boggard encounter, up to a dozen crossbow wielding undead in 2-2 and 2-3 manning the arrow slits
2-5: This cell is where we keep important prisoners, like sister Marta. DC30 lock, could station an undead guard here maybe, or a glyph of warding....
Will weigh in on this. Sebastian will suggestion the stoneshaping in character. I have no problem attempting to cover in the balcony but I would think unlike a passage it would take quite a lot of time at 17 cubic feet a cast.
About 3/4 of the way done with this guy.
@About cohorts
Anyone wishing a cohort is feel free to create a basic crunch, but ultimately, I’ll pick up feats/personality/motivation/archetype choices.
Just without time now to do it. >.<
Edit: I'll of course take the player request heavly when considering my choices.
Cool, I'm good with you giveing Cedric a cohort. So Grumblejack is just hanging around right now? No one took him as a cohort?
OK I think you can see where I was going with this guy...
Visionary Researcher / Infusion discovery (along with standard brew potion) was the core, letting him share out his twisted inventions without him neccessarily taking part in every battle. Researcher allows for sharing of a reduced power mutagen but losing that wouldn't change that much.
If you don't like that whole basic concept (ie infusion discovery) let me know and I'll re-think.
Can't post on gameplay. '-'
Giving me an error everytime I'd try.
Despite Johan's bullishness, I am as always, happy to abide by the majority. If Eldred and Agrippa both think going to see tiadora ( ha! Auto correct keeps turning tiadora into toady) is best, then that's fine by me.
Just, ya know, be prepared for Johan style grumpiness the whole trip. <;
This guy is done although I've not incorporated the effects of any feats into the crunch in case these are changed, nor done a header line.
Reflecting Johan's plan above, existing undead would be re-assigned as follows:
3rd level internal stairs just below sanctum
1 Minotaur fast zombie (8HD)
1 Hound Archon bloody skeleton (6HD - equipped w/ breastplate, mstwk greatsword) * ritual bonus
2nd level entrance
4 burning skeletons (1HD each) (not sure these can hold crossbows, being burning and all)
2 boggard fast zombies (4HD each) (with crossbows)
1 boggard uncontrolled fast zombie in the bottom of the pit trap
2HD of controlled undead can still be created: suggest a human fast zombie to guard the prisoner which would neatly exhaust the held onyx I believe
Glyphs could be:
- 1 glyph of blindness on the cell (assuming you want that as above, she gets away somehow she can't see)
- 1 glyph of bestow curse (central stairs just before placement of undead)
Actually now I look at the HD totals I'm not sure they are right.
Adding bloody/burning/fast should double the HD so shouldn't the archon alone be 12HD alone of 28HD? Minotaur should be 2 x 6 = 12HD as well.
Maybe I've missed something.
I thought so too at first, but after rereading, adding bloody/burning templates just increase the creation cost, not the control cost.
Aku stated that adding zombie templates increases neither, but requires the casting of additional spells during creation
The minotaur cost 6 HD to create, but since the template adds 2 HD to Lg creatures, it costs 8HD to control
I like the distribution of the undead you have suggested, and especially like the use of the blindness glyph.
Unrelated thought: can Johan's Nightmare make use of an iron circlet?
OK, I'll not query further if its been ruled on.
Cool, I'm good with you giveing Cedric a cohort. So Grumblejack is just hanging around right now? No one took him as a cohort?
At the present moment, Grumble is kinda too strong for a Cohort, he would make a perfect cohort for someone level9.
Actually now I look at the HD totals I'm not sure they are right.
Adding bloody/burning/fast should double the HD so shouldn't the archon alone be 12HD alone of 28HD? Minotaur should be 2 x 6 = 12HD as well.
Maybe I've missed something.
Official Variants(Skeletons)
The bloody and burning skeleton variants are created using the animate dead spell, but count as twice their normal number of Hit Dice per casting. Once controlled, they count normally against the controller's limit.
==//==
Variants(Zombies)
The typical zombie is a slow-moving abomination that is tough to destroy. Yet this is not the only type of zombie to plague crypts or stalk graveyards. Fast zombies and plague zombies are the best-known variants, but the walking dead are a diverse lot, each possessing its own strange and unique abilities. In many cases these variant abilities may be applied to either skeletons or zombies, unless common sense dictates otherwise (such as a gasburst skeleton).
Note: The bloody skeleton and burning skeleton variants indicate that they are created by use of the animate dead spell but count as double their normal HD when doing so. The variant zombies listed below did not include any such information. It is left to the GM to determine if this rule is fair when creating the zombies below (unless someone alerts us to some official ruling by a Paizo source that is.)
Each of the following variant zombies modifies the base zombie in a few simple ways.
==//==
It's costly to create skeletons, but it's not harder to control, and Since Zombies has other magic requirements as well, I opted for not raising the creation cost.
Unrelated thought: can Johan's Nightmare make use of an iron circlet?
Why not? :D
I see no problem at all. ;O
Sorry, SCA weekend. Was out and ended up watching TV with the wife last night.